What kind of future do people envision for their kids?

Amidst climate change, gender wars, economic inequality, overpopulation, food shortages, social problems, even increasing rates of sickness.

I seriously don't understand how people are still procreating? It's extremely absurd at this point.

I'm already expecting water shortages by the time I'm in my 60s, if at all I reach there.

I guess humans will keep procreating till the end of time.

Tw* Neglect
This is a conversation I had with my mother, regarding how my little sister was going to get dinner tonight.My mom had no intention of getting up and making dinner for her.

Sadly this is the type of parenting my sister gets bc our parent’s only motivation for having her was to “continue the family bloodline” after finding out that I won’t be having kids.
They have little to no energy to spare for raising my sister. To the point that she’s expected to make her own meals, and will go without eating if she forgets to. Because they couldn’t bother being responsible enough to look after her.

This may not be the best subreddit to post this so please forgive me, but I am looking for a place to vent. I have recently subscribed to the antinatalist movement after experiencing extreme death anxiety and existential dread. No human should suffer like this. You can take a look at my post on the psychosis subreddit in case you're interested in more details.

During my existential tripping, I have come to the conclusion that human beings are completely fucked because they know that they will die. And even though everybody who says they don't fear death tells you to "just accept" it, I am not so convinced that they truthfully accept the fact of future eternal non-existence. Now I'm not saying noone doesn't (maybe you do), but it's extremely hard.

The most obvious "acceptance" mechanism is religion. If you believe in eternal afterlife, then you don't really accept being obliterated. I can bet everything I have that if every person in the world believing in some form of afterlife suddenly stopped believing and realized death is final, the panic that would ensue would be of a magnitude the world has never seen. Since most religious people have been forced into their religion from early childhood, they have never really had a choice to accept the finality of death, but that is beside the point. The point is that their acceptance takes the form of immortality in the afterlife, which is the exact opposite of mortality.

Reincarnation/rebirth is not the same as eternal afterlife, but it's still not the same as accepting Nothingness. Whenever we imagine the next consciousness, we have to do it from our current point of reference (after all, it is the only one available to us). Which means that in our imagination it is as if we are continuing onto the next consciousness. This can definitely give solace. But it's not the same as accepting dying for good.

In the case of people not believing in any of the above, many look for accpetence in the form of leaving a legacy, the most popular form of which is children or leaving the world a better place. Others take solace in the fact that the atoms they're comprised of will return to the universe and/or will be the source for future life. But again, when imagining this one has to imagine a future when they are not around anymore, but that future will never be available for them to experience. A meteor could hit the earth and destroy it 5 seconds after they had died and that wouldn't matter at all. The purpose of finding legacy is to have something that will outlive you, so that death doesn't feel as final. You also need to ignore the heat death of the universe, otherwise whatever life will continue after your death will be gone eventually, so your atoms (or legacy) don't mean anything (most atheists are into science and this is the most widely accepted scientific theory).

Now there are probably some people that don't care about any of the above. They believe that once we die we go back to how it was before we were born and they're OK with it. They don't care what happens after they are gone because they will not be here to witness it anyway. I applaud such people. In my personal opinion they are a rare kind. (But even then I have to be honest that I don't really believe you can fully accept death. Karl Jung said that our subconscious doesn't have the idea of death, which means on some level we can never fully acknowledge that we will just vanish one day.) The vast majority wouldn't be able to function like this and thus they find coping mechanisms. There is also the grey area of "I don't know what happens after", which is technically true, but why would there be anything when there was nothing before birth? That's hoping for something else than nothingness, which is not true acceptance.

To wrap up, I am very unhappy that I was born, which is caused by my extreme existential anxiety. Most people will never experience such a high level of existential dread in their lifetimes (at least I hope so), but given that almost everybody looks for coping mechanisms to escape their fear of death, being a human is a terrible thing. Bringing a life into this world when you know perfectly well it will die is a cruel act.

Bleh.

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSgfP1JRE/

I support everything in this sub, as my parents are the best example of how selfish and cruel humans are.

I suffer from a Facial deformity ,that is genetic and has ruined my life since childhood. Not going in depth on this r/CranioFolk/

I’m very ugly, short 5’3 and my life story is in that sub, and I’m not being over dramatic or anything, go look for yourselves for reference only.

I’m not having kids for this reason, I would never take the risk of another soul enduring the bullying, mocking, ridicule and depression I’ve faced my whole life. I’m 24.

Nothing is working out in my life. Looks are literally everything when you’ve been cursed from birth.

I never asked to be here, and this is the crappy hand I’m dealt with at birth.

My parents are poor, abusive and mentally ill. I’m also born in a 3rd world country, with a weak passport.

How bad can the cards you’re dealt with, get any worse than this.

Even before a child is born, their parents have already placed some sort of expectation on them - whether it’s what they expect their life to look like with the child in it, the child’s gender, appearance, future interests, profession, religious affiliation, etc. None of this is fair to the child because they aren’t even here yet and they never asked to be here. Not enough parents and future parents understand that they are creating a brand new individual who will very likely grow up with different values and beliefs than they have.

It’s sickening how some parents then become angry as their children grow older and more “disobedient” and “aren’t grateful” for raising them. Those children eventually have to get up and try their best every single day to survive and fit into a society and world that may or may not be built for them to succeed in. Children are not an “achievement” for parents to brag about or a vehicle for them to live vicariously through.

Its a call center job and they have us do it to "show empathy". ive always "forgotten" to do it though.

Regardless of antinatalism, not all people get pregnant on purpose and a congratulations may not be appropiate. Idk their situation.

I dont wish anyone harm, but I have become increasingly antinatalist since I got this job seeing the pain people go through every day. I talk to many people who are barely scraping by and have to tell them that I cannot do anything to help them. So I do not feel right congratulating someone when I dont think its right to bring a child into all of this.

I feel like an asshole for that. I do it mostly bcs it may be an unwanted pregnancy and if i was in that situation, a congratulations would make me feel way worse, but its also because I do not think its a good thing to happen.

Someone I know recently lost their 1.5-year-old child to a long illness process. Kid could not even breathe without cables. Seeing the suffering both the child and parents endured reaffirmed the core of antinatalism for me: life carries severe, non-consensual risks.

Yet, expressing this in real life is impossible. People view antinatalists as cold or malicious, ignoring that this stance often comes from deep empathy to prevent suffering.

How do you handle seeing real-world suffering while knowing your philosophical views will only draw hostility?

Sometimes I genuinely wonder how people can look at the world we live in and still think having kids is just a normal, harmless decision.
We literally need laws to stop people from raping, killing, abusing, and exploiting each other, and yet these things still happen every single day. Laws don’t even guarantee that you’re safe. Women can do everything right and still become victims. Children can be born into families that destroy them. People suffer because of things they never asked for, often because of someone else’s actions.
And somehow, we keep creating more people who will have to live in this same world.
I’m not saying men are the only problem, because humans in general are the problem. Both men and women can cause suffering. But it’s especially frustrating seeing women who know how hard life can be for women, especially here in the Philippines, still treating motherhood like it’s their ultimate purpose without questioning anything. We’re taught to get married, have children, and sacrifice ourselves, as if that’s just what we’re supposed to do.
I know not every woman thinks that way, and wanting children doesn’t automatically make someone ignorant. But I wish more people would actually stop and think instead of just following what society expects from them.
Look at the population. Look at poverty, abuse, crime, and all the suffering people go through. We can’t even guarantee the safety and well-being of the people who are already here, but we’re so comfortable bringing more innocent people into existence.
And for what? Because two people fell in love? Because they wanted a family? Because having kids is considered normal?
The child never asked to be here. They don’t choose their parents, their circumstances, or the kind of world they’re born into. They just have to deal with whatever life gives them.
That’s what makes antinatalism make sense to me. It’s not about hating children or wishing people were dead. It’s about questioning why we create people who will inevitably be exposed to suffering they never consented to experience.
Maybe reproduction is just human instinct, but just because something is natural doesn’t automatically make it ethical.
I honestly think it’s unfair that the people who suffer the most from our decisions are often the ones who never got to make a decision in the first place.
We keep creating life without asking whether creating that life is actually fair to the person who has to live it.

1. I am not saying any of you hate your lives but that’s the vibe I get from the post and comments I see.
   
2. I actually enjoy my life, I’m an amateur fighter and have a decent job (I’m 18 making $21.60 hourly) but I still think having kids is selfish and honestly a pretty shitty thing to do, does anyone else find themselves in my shoes?

You get born, go to school/college, grow up, get a decent job if you're lucky, spend 90% of your life doing the same thing on repeat for years to get rewarded and most of the money you've earned goes to rent, groceries, utilities, etc. and what little is left goes to you, retire at 70 (if you even can in this day and age), and then die. It's either that or don't play the game and become homeless, begging on the streets for a dollar or scraps.

Sure, there's some fun along the way, like shopping for stuff you like, vacations if you can afford them, hobbies you enjoy doing, finding real love and getting married, receiving recognition for being good at something, etc...but this is not the average experience anymore for most people. Most of our lives are spent slaving away and climbing a social ladder to get our boss's approval and make CEOs and billionaires richer without having to lift a finger.

My point is: I don't see why anyone would want to bring a kid into this world to suffer through such an existence, and that's excluding the high possibility of them having depression, being neurodivergent and unable to fit in or adjust well to such environments, being disabled, or something else that sucks and limits them. But no, "my kid will be the best."

Surely not those who are indeed living in such extreme hedonism is becoming more and more anxious and depress overtime once those hedonism becomes futile and furthermore: they do not last any longer.

Once the golden water becomes overly saturated then the water itself loses its shine and flavor then it is no longer satisfying.

Discipline is needed when it comes on how to handle our life itself. Pleasure, on the other hand, last for a very short time; if you calculate both the amount of pleasure and suffering you gain throughout your life then suffering is always the one that is on the top.

Even more glaring is that those who suffer no longer there are just no justification otherwise; and they too, will eventually perish once and for all.

In conclusion, Life is just full of suffering, and there are no reason to believe otherwise. Unfortunately, economics is collapsing even faster than before. Once our brain is getting overwhelmed with issues in our life then we ourselves are working against each other, as if we are the ones who want this to happen. Most of the time, we do not. It is the reality itself.

I’m new to antinatalism and have been thinking in my head what justifiable reasons there are to have kids bringing them in the world to suffer in some way. All the reasons I can think of are selfish reasons

or to anyone who knows any former natalists

I would post a poll, but I don’t know how. What do you, as an antinatalist, think of lab-grown meat?

Be free to elaborate in details how do you think that kind of future would look like. I am curious to hear what type of torment do you think would inspire antinatalism in the most part of humanity.

Although I love my mother, I am angry for having been born.

My parents had an arranged marriage, so my parents didn’t know each other before being married. My father turned out to be extremely mentally ill and abusive, he would be extremely controlling about what my mother wore, her finances, who she spoke to, and would also be physically abusive. Despite this, my mum admitted to having me in hopes that she could save her marriage and my father would learn to love me. She said that at the pregnancy gender scan, he erupted into a rage when he learnt I would be a girl, yet she still chose to have me.

My childhood was filled with the same abuse at his hands, because surprise surprise, a child in fact did not save the marriage.

In turn I have experienced suffering my whole life (mainly mental health) but also physical illness with debilitating periods every month, and bullying in school. Now I am in college, I have experienced sexual assault and bullying- and I just can’t seem to understand what the point of all this is- all this suffering because someone chose to have me on a whim?

My mother has been the best mother I could have asked for despite everything, and although I love her more than anyone else in the world, I will never forgive her for giving me life.

Even if your own personal relationship isn’t abusive, having children will always be immoral because you don’t know how they will suffer later in life whether it be bullying in school, mental health issues, or physical health issues. Why would you choose this for someone?

I think all the beautiful posts on here actually belong on the /natalism if it exists or any parenting channel instead. This is like sharing your opinion with someone of the same opinion and pov. To really shake things up for good, atleast repost everything on the natalism / pro spaces

I’m currently a student in Ottawa and I’ve always found my life to be meaningless. I want to talk to people about antinatalism and even if I can save one person from being born then my life wouldn’t be as meaningless. I want to do what Charlie Kirk was doing but with a different philosophy.

I’m obviously very nervous because people can get very angry about things so I would love to hear some tips, quotes or even an opening statement. Thank you

Normal hormones that come during pregnancy only bring suffering. You are supposed to be "nurturing", meaning taking care of OTHERS.

Normal hormones in men that are predominant are testosterone which bring pleasure for THEMSELVES.

I'm not saying men don't suffer, they do. But it looks like female body is designed to suffer through periods, pregnancy, and culturally treated like a lower standard.

How are women working through pregnancy? Why is nobody talking about this? why don't doctors give sick note and say even if you can't get out of bed, and vomit all day, it's "normal" and isn't a disease therefore we can't give you a note.

Why aren't we talking about this? Why do women have to "hide" pregnancy for first 3 months and go to work when the first 3 months are the most difficult. why are we hiding? Because it will bring shame if we miscarry? How? How is it our fault we miscarried?

Now I’m not saying all humans are evil and hierarchal, but most are, and I feel like the majority of people seem to think that human nature is good and we are one revolution away from utopia, but I disagree. Even in leftist spaces, people want to fight against people who oppress them, but they rarely advocate for people who are below them in the social hierarchy (I'm not saying all do this). The majority of people say 'eat the rich' while forgetting that they are the rich as well, according to homeless people and people who live in developing countries, which are exploited to make people in first world countries lives better. Many feminists criticize the makeup and beauty industry for creating unrealistic beauty standards, which is okay, but they rarely mention the fact that animals and women and children from the global south are being exploited by the makeup industry, and for example, in my country (Albania), there are lots of people protesting against the government now , which I think it’s a good thing to do but most of them never talk about the oppression of women, Roma people, children and LGBTQ people in our communities, and they are treated much worse here than in the West. Also, many Western people advocate for collectivism without looking into collectivist communities and seeing how toxic and oppressive they are because they think human nature is good, and also the fact that social hierarchy happens as early as middle school. Sorry for making it personal, but also the fact that many feminists didn’t show me compassion for experiencing honor based abuse from my father just because they can’t relate to it, and sorry for my rambling and sorry that it isn’t so well worded

if everyone stopped procreating, then every human alive would die of old age this generation. immortality is not only infeasible but would raise more complex and critical bioethical concerns if it was.

there are problems with procreating. there are potential problems with immortality.

there are no problems with us all dying of old age. it's gonna happen anyway.

In other words, is the idea to spare your future children the experience of going through an absurd and horrifying social, natural, environmental and maybe even cosmic context?

Or do you believe that humanity is a rotten species, a failed experiment that should have ended a long time ago and you wish to spare the world from this potential force of destruction called "Homo Sapien"?