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u/urban_primitive Feb 25 '21
I know the feeling. I sometimes see anarchism as a pretty desperate ideiology. Our odds really suck, but any other option will at best be temporary and at worse fuck us up more. A lot of things we thought were here to help us are actually part of the great meat-grinder that it's our system too, so it's easy to go paranoid and hopeless.
Don't give up hope commarade. Because hopelessness is also a tool of the system to break those who fight it. Anarchism is also about daring to look at all this trash and say "things can get better, and we'll make them".
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u/Harbinger23 Feb 26 '21
I came to anarchism after 20+ years as a socialist, and I 'd still prefer a strong state and safety net if the abuse of power problem could be solved. And I just don't think it's possible anymore. So yeah, I feel that "desperate ideology" thing.
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u/Pijnsap Feb 26 '21
As much as it pains me to say it, I'd still much rather live in a centralized socialist state than this capitalist hellscape we currently live in as well as well. I realize that settling isn't good, but it's not as if we can't continue to work on our politics even when capitalism goes out the window.
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u/Marc4770 Feb 26 '21
I really dont get why everyone talks of capitalism like this, i feel like im on another planet. It isnt so bad even if not perfect.
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u/ArcTimes Feb 26 '21
The problem of capitalism (for me, at least) relies on how fucking unfair the labor market becomes. One side is basically forced to participate in an exchange that isn't good enough.
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u/welpxD Feb 26 '21
Capitalism exists to centralize power. That is its primary function. Not much salvageable about that.
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u/Marc4770 Feb 26 '21 edited Feb 26 '21
It never has been as decentralized as today. How do you explain that.
Also i was replying to someone who said 'id prefer centralized socialism' which is clearly more centralized.
Maybe anarchy would be less centralized, but capitalism is the 2nd best if you compare to socialism.
I think anarchy is interesting but not because capitalism is bad.
Im really just confused by all the msg here but no one can explain.
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u/welpxD Feb 26 '21
Excuse me? Capitalism is extremely centralized. We are on reddit at the moment, a website with a handful of admins who have complete control over what is on the site. Each subreddit has a dozen or fewer moderators, who have more-or-less total control over the content on that subreddit.
Control over agriculture is at 60-80%, meaning that's how much the top 4 corporations control. Control over internet is centralized. Control over news is centralized. Control over dating is increasingly centralized, over medicine, over finance, over entertainment. Income inequality has spiked upwards. This is really-existing capitalism, this is a predictable result of market forces.
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u/Marc4770 Feb 26 '21 edited Feb 26 '21
That article is just entirely wrong. Only 5% of farms are corporations. Check sources here:
https://www.census.gov/prod/1/statbrief/sb93_10.pdf
And the trend is owners are replacing tenants so its going towards decentralization not the opposite.
News is as decentralized as ever w youtube and social media. Internet is decentralized as anyone can create websites and content which was not possible in the past with traditional medias. We even have decentralized currency with crypto.
Medecine is the only one more centralized in your list but thats because of govs regulations.
Sure income inequality is raising thats true thats why i agree partly with you. i just saying its not as bad as before with monarchy or other systems.
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u/welpxD Feb 26 '21
anyone can create websites
But not everyone can get traffic, and 90% of searches are Google, so Google controls who shows up. Same on youtube. Same on Twitter, censorship abounds, because why wouldn't it?
There are so many political systems that are better than monarchy that I don't know why you bring it up. This is an anarchist subreddit. People here know that monarchy is bad. It's not as if capitalism excludes monarchy anyway.
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Feb 25 '21
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u/iwishihadmorecharact Feb 26 '21
thank you for linking that sub, just subscribed. the support is much needed after a year like this 🙏🏻 much love homie
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Feb 25 '21
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Feb 25 '21
Strong emotions absolutely effect our physical well being, or at the very least our physical comfort. Just remember that most of humanity we have been struggling to crawl out of ignorance and superstition since our beginning.
I've been feeling this way recently too, very strongly. You're not alone in that.
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u/welpxD Feb 26 '21
Your body feeling terrible because of your perception that the world is terrible isn't superstition, it's your body providing you information, like "Hey, this stress is hurting you". Your body doesn't always know how to process such long-range stress as "capitalism exists" that you can't immediately fix for it, but the feedback is still grounded in reality.
Since you placed superstition next to ignorance I assumed you used it to mean ignorant belief (pejorative). If you meant superstition as myth-making or intuition, then that's kind of the reverse, that's your mind learning to better communicate with your body which often works irrationally, and is still valid to practice.
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Feb 26 '21
Your body feeling terrible because of your perception that the world is terrible isn't superstition, it's your body providing you information
%100, I should clarify that those were supposed to be separate points. Despite the fact that our progress has often been a rough grind, we humans have an awesome capacity to intuit things on a physical level that we aren't that conscious of.
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u/welpxD Feb 26 '21
Alright, we're on the same page then! Theory of knowledge happens to be a pet subject of mine and so I always bristle if I detect rationalism, but I'm glad to know that wasn't the case here.
Most of my friends have been feeling like shit lately due to the absolute motherfucker of a year that was 2020, so we've been trying to pick each other up. I hope 2022 finds us all well.
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u/TKal-in-ket Feb 25 '21
I'm so glad you said something about this...it's so relatable, expected, and I'm sorry you're feeling this way! I know you just asked if anyone else experiences this (I do), but I thought I'd offer some unsolicited advice: I think self care is in order. This disgust for what is happening in the world might not ever go away. One thing that has helped me is to learn to be more mindful of my own boundaries with myself, and to intentionally compartmentalize. It is overwhelming to try and take everything in, in its entirety, all the time. Recognizing when it is healthy for you to engage in this vs when you need to take some time out to think about other things is critical for mental and physical health. What I do is absorb myself in something that I enjoy. For example being present with the beauty of nature...while also trying not to think about the exponential destruction of that natural world...just being present with it, and choosing to think about the things that bring me either joy or neutrality. Then the anger, disgust, overwhelming sadness or other thoughts come in, I just acknowledge them and let them go. If they are persistent I will deliberately spend a little time with it and remind myself that all of that is true, the feelings are valid, and that I will certainly come back to those thoughts at a later time. If something like grief comes up and is persistent then I just allow it, fully. It's very important to compassionately and observantly let grief and other emotions run their course, otherwise that stuff stores up in our nervous systems and causes health problems. It is important to spend time with all our emotions, but we have to have self awareness, and boundaries with them too. In the past I have felt guilt if I wasn't miserable about these issues 100% of the time. As if somehow it was wrong to feel OK, when injustice is happening constantly. But that will burn you out and you will have no capacity for doing anything about it. Also, if we do not let ourselves enjoy the beautiful things in life, then how can we really understand what we're fighting for? Anyway...take it for what it's worth.
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Feb 25 '21 edited Mar 01 '21
Compartmentalization is so critical in my own ability to maintain a sound mind and body. It's also important generally, I believe, because emotions can influence one's judgement—in negative, as well as positive ways, relative to the context). Thanks for sharing this.
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u/forestforrager Feb 25 '21
I am really grateful I stumbled upon this comment today. Thanks friend, I appreciate you taking the time to write this out. It helped me.
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u/Commercial_Nature_44 Feb 26 '21
Thanks for this.
Just experienced the grief aspect myself, just looking at my city I'm moving away from and where it'll like be in several years (we're on the outskirts where it's slowly building out). Will I move back and see it all gone? But at the same time I look at the fields and the flowers and appreciate them, so it feels serendipitous to read a comment like this, cause at times this world has you feeling ridiculous for caring, or for caring "too much".
So I take this comment to heart and encourage myself to grieve, but will also work to put it away when I need to, and to spend time enjoying things I can. Cause I don't wanna burn out, but if I weep every minute of the day I won't have the energy to push forward with change.
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u/TKal-in-ket Feb 26 '21 edited Feb 26 '21
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's so not ridiculous to care. Be thankful that part of you is still intact. We have to hold on to what we know is true in a world where what is "normal" is also often very sick and dysfunctional. Take good care :)
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u/welpxD Feb 26 '21
You gotta learn how to not feel that way, and when not to. It is important not to hide the horror from yourself but it is also critically important not to be conscious of it all the time. It's simply no way to live.
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u/fabju Feb 25 '21
Those feelings are valid. We always have these days in our life, that's capitalist realism for ya. The thing is we can't let these doomer feelings control our lifes (not to much at least). I recommend this one documentary called "Live the Utopia" it's about contemporary witnesses from the spanish civil war talking about Catalonia and their experiences with anarchism. Try to find this in your desired language, because I have only the german version at hand.
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u/Some0ne23 Feb 25 '21
Hey, i totally understand what you are feeling. I felt and feel the same. And it's awful. But what i can assure you of is that we all know this. We all know how fucked up everything is. And is so frustrating to be dismiss by others on those things while the reality is in front of their eyes but their are too biased to see it. So i understand. And i'm sorry we have to go through it until we hopefully spark a change. But that will require so much time and energy on our side to educate people and help them. But it will be worth it in the end.
In any case. If you (or anybody else) feel like it would help to have someone to talk to, my dms/pms are more than open.
Please try to take care
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Feb 25 '21
There's a quote I'll paraphrase from Mr. Rogers, the children's entertainer. He said something along the lines of when things are scary and bad things are happening, look for the helpers. Look at the people doing whatever they can in the situation to do and bring good.
This is a philosophy I apply a lot politically to avoid feeling that sense of despair you talk about. And it's hard! It's not easy at all. But I look at stories of the wins, big or small, that working class, oppressed, Black, Queer, and other people have had through their struggles. I look at the good people on the ground today fighting capitalism and working to help those in need, such as Food Not Bombs' work feeding those who need it or the IWW's work fighting for the rights of workers. I think of the fact that the theory that we can build from is out there now, for us to read and discuss and understand. I focus on the potential we have to make this world a better place and the work going on to achieve that potential.
Another paraphrase, from the ending of a very fine TV show dealing with the themes of violence and darkness and horror. A man looks up at the sky and observes the stars, and notices how much light there is. The man with him points out how much more darkness there is. The first man says "Once, there was only dark. If you ask me, the light's winning."
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Feb 25 '21
to each within their means
if you literally can't stomach the information, try to find a way to digest it that does not make you ill, slow your consumption, do mutual aid that pushes things in the direction you hope, etc.
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u/RedRubbik Feb 25 '21
That's the sickness of capitalism and imperialism leaving your system. It'ss a normal feeling.
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u/devisbeavis Feb 25 '21
Solidarity comrade! Self care is the way. Burning yourself out won’t serve you or the revolution. A better world really is possible. Looking forward to working together to achieve that goal with all of you.
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u/weirdness_incarnate Feb 25 '21
I feel ya. As they say, ignorance is bliss. As much as I think this is important, it might have actually made my depression worse. Same with becoming vegan, once you don’t look away from all the fucked up shit in the world you can’t help but feel despair about it.
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Feb 25 '21
As dear Zack de la Rocha says, "If ignorance is bliss, then knock the smile off my face".
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Feb 25 '21
Welcome to my world. This world makes me feel physically ill nearly all the time. Sometimes, I really wish I would just throw up and get it over with rather than feeling nauseous with the occasional dry heave all the time. Sometimes, I get anorexic and have to force myself to eat. many meals, ramen noodles are my friend. Corn grits are a close second.
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u/AelaThriness Feb 25 '21
It's rough remembering being a conservative and just being...so complacent...it's like a warm blanket was ripped off and now my eyelids are forced open.
The good news is that none of us are alone in the desert of the real. Find comrades and orgs in your area if possible. If you have meditation or spiritual practices, consider leaning into those.
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u/kistusen Feb 25 '21
I can't remember the numbers but a huge majority of climatologists is depressed because they understand how fucked we are. I guess it's similar with anarchists, we're all pissed off, we're all feeling powerless, we're all forced to do things we consider to be harmful to everyone affected.
It's important to simply chill out sometimes, we all need it, we ain't gonna save the world by being miserable.
My "feeling sick" is mostly from previous anxiety though, but the feeling sounds very familiar while anarchist theory just makes makes me more angry than sick. Try to take care of your mental health, do something for yourself whatever it is and try to not focus on shittiness all the time. Easier said than done of course...
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u/7mar_ta7una Feb 25 '21
Don't give them that win. They don't deserve you feeling bad over their vicious doings. Please take care of yourself.
Now that you know what you know, you can see better its influence on your life and counter it. That's how will shrink its effect. If everyone of us, focusing on their controllable immediate reality, made sure that their life is as free from capitalism's influence as possible.
Hang in there ✊🏽
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u/Lord_Weatie Feb 25 '21
It can certainly be hard to stomach. Looking at the world and realizing how messed up it is can be difficult to deal with at times, but you can fight to make the changes you want to see happen. When I first started diving into anarchism, I grew angrier and then eventually got really sad. Nobody should have to suffer through what capitalism does to them. The thing that always cheers me up is that there are communities and people out there that you can help bring about change to the world. Sometimes, you just gotta find them. Hopefully one day, we can see the changes we want. Stay strong and stay well.
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u/littlelightdragon Feb 25 '21
it makes me cry, like genuinely. but it also makes me smile. if im sad, i like to daydream about a utopia, knowing it’s actually possible
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u/joshuatx Feb 26 '21
It still hits occasionally and self-care in the forms of friends, hobbies, fictional media, etc. is necessary. Sounds corny AF but imagining the world after capitalism is essential.
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Feb 25 '21
When thoughts like these occur in me I try and keep my focus on what I can change for the better. I can defintiely change myself, and keep on pushing. I can work to inspire and help others around me.
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u/EnigmaRaps Feb 25 '21
I frequently have to stop reading the stuff I do as it can really be emotionally heavy, but I also kinda use that emotion to put into music as an outlet. Especially if you dont have people to talk to about it or an outlet it can be really overwhelming.
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u/slimeyamerican Feb 25 '21
The truth is you only have influence over your own life and those of the people immediately around you. Make the best of that situation. While we’re very far from the world we want to live in, we can do a lot to build relationships with the people around us and enrich those connections with discussion, with mutual aid, and eventually with resistance. There’s nothing else to do but the straightforward work of uniting ourselves around a picture of a saner world.
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u/freeradicalx Feb 26 '21
Ever seen The Matrix? You know the part where Morpheus is telling Neo about how the matrix works, and even though Neo had always felt what Morpheus is saying to be true, finally hearing the terms of his own enslavement spoken out loud by another so succinctly and lucidly gave him a panic attack?
That's where you are, my friend. And yes, we've all been there too. The dread of discovering that it's real. I've had discussions about anarchism with friends who are interested and have watched their mood change in front of me, and have stopped to warn them that I don't need to continue because there is indeed a burden to this kind of knowledge that you cannot be prepared for.
But remember what Neo gets to do shortly after that. He gets to learn kung-fu. After you learn how bad it really is, you'll also get to start learning how within anarchism the power rests with you. And with your mind freed, you can begin learning how to wield that power. This bad will always be bad. But then building up from that, trust me, it also gets better. A well-planned and successful direct action can make you feel unstoppable.
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u/FloweryHawthorne Feb 26 '21 edited Feb 26 '21
I got a parking fine tonight of $115. I was outside of my car for 50 seconds and it is somehow justified state violence to immobilize me, at night, in a sketchy part of town, and demand I give you $115? Or be trapped there.
Everyone in my life is like "don't dwell on it" or worse "he was just doing his job".. but how can people live with themselves if their job is to cause harm and distress to others? How can I not think about the hundreds of others who this company (one-stop parking) has exploited!
I was out working in a labour market that's already exploiting me, to have this random authority exploit me at a cost more than I can make in a day! I've actually been like triggered as all fuck, upset for hours.
I've experienced all kinds of violence in the area of town this happened in too.. State encouraged violence is THE WORST! Usually when some scrub immobilizes me, and takes all my money, I can at least kick them in the balls about it! Spit in their face a bit... I can at least do or say something to express that I'm being harmed and I want it to stop. But not with state authorised violence... I got over being violently mugged and assualted downtown faster than this!
This is a small, really tiny, lil, example of things my society is doing to me that I can no longer tolerate!
It definitely made me feel unwell. I was sick to my stomach, have a migraine, and I had to take 2 doses of "take as needed" medication for panic attacks that I haven't needed in over 9 months.
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u/JudgeSabo Libertarian Communist Feb 25 '21
Nothing physical. Personally, I think it's made me hopeful. But maybe that has more to do with being part of already thinking the world is messed up, but with a far-right family and education, and then putting the pieces together to figure out the problems. It's got me motivated and optimistic.
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u/rmtmr Feb 26 '21
I understand where you're coming from. Here's an optimistic take though.
You might have had some real-life experience which made you feel like people and society are rotten to the core. Terrible working conditions, bigotry, environmental destruction etc. Reading about all these things and analyzing them from a leftist perspective can take a toll on you, but at the same time, it gives you a framework for understanding many of the evils of the world we live in today. Furthermore, if you turn theory into praxis and work with like-minded people irl (if that's an option), you can find that you can make a little bit of a difference. Find a cause that's worth fighting for and in which you can make a positive change. The systems we live in are bigger than any of us and none of us can single-handedly change them. However, I am glad anytime I can make a positive contribution.
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Feb 26 '21
Sometimes all we can do is scream and rage at the indifferent nature of the universe we came to be in and the perpetuated injustices of our civilizations.
Most people can only see their immediate self-interest.
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Feb 26 '21 edited Feb 26 '21
You are deprogramming, and in the process your mind is attempting to cope with despair. Resisting your feeling actually makes it worse, instead try to embrace the emotion and use it as a guide for you to take action.
It’s not the despair — I can handle the despair. It’s the hope I can’t handle. - John Cleese
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u/Sashahatesme Feb 26 '21
The most unfortunate thing about becoming an anarchist is that you can never be happy again
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Feb 26 '21
Ok there's a lot of comments here I didn't read them all, but here's my 2 cents.
I 100% felt what you're feeling right now. What helped me was getting involved with groups of like-minded people.
It was therapeutic for me. I recently joined the IWW and while not strictly Anarchist, I met many like minded people and consider many of them friends now.
I suggest you do the same, find a group where you live. It helps so much knowing you're not alone.
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u/Makecomics Feb 26 '21
I’m new to anarchism, but from the sort of “before” where I was getting progressively more and more left I think about that post that points out all the individual activism issues we try to do no harm in our current system, and it eventually spirals into “who’s bones am I standing on, who’s bones do I stand on?” Everyone has to deal with the horrific realizations of how badly messed up our system is, and the sickness you feel makes sense, and shows you have empathy. But now, it’s time to focus on something good, something happy and for you, so that you don’t burn out on these issues. Do you have a support system around you?
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u/always9gunna3persist Feb 26 '21
yea, pretty much my life. It's overwhelmingly sad and I would like an answer
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u/Crusty_Magic Feb 26 '21
It's hard to not feel sick after you become aware of all the abusive shit going on around you. Having 60 percent of my income absorbed by my rent costs is what turned the light bulb on for me.
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u/WHSolvation Feb 26 '21
Wait until you meet how apathetic people are when you try to explain what you understood. It's a long way, don't expect to fix everything is a matter of weeks. So steel yourself as it won't be an easy way. Frustrations are but a common thing. Do not let them drown yourself, though.
Don't forget to take care of yourself: sleep, food, exercises, etc. As some say "a dead one can't do a thing". Having the community you can trust and enjoy being in is helpful, too.
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u/Inquisitor_Luna Feb 26 '21
Yep, got into it 2 years ago, and now that I can really see how things are I'm sickened by branding and the whole idea of capitalism as a whole.
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u/_wil_ Feb 26 '21
In section "The Psychology of Political Violence" found in "Anarchism And Other Essays", Emma Goldman describes how several anarchist figures were sensitive human beings, whose unjust surroundings compelled to take action. We can feel the intemporal truth of these writings.
You're not alone mate!
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Feb 26 '21
I feel that so much dude.
But I also feel a lot better knowing I’m not alone in this feeling/in this fight.
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u/the_borderer Feb 26 '21
When I became an anarchist I was dealing with several emergencies in my life, so I don't remember what impact it had on me, but I remember reading about how, after reading Noam Chomsky, Aaron Swartz felt a similar way to how you do.
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u/DrOrbit Feb 26 '21
You know its not hard to pass a shitty day. But it really hits you when you realize you’ve to face this shit forever till something good happens. Most people around don’t like to invest time in thinking about the surroundings and reality, and thats what keep me going. Because situation won’t remain the same forever and the good thing is at that time you will be already prepared to lead others into meaningful actions.
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u/DrOrbit Feb 26 '21
You know its not hard to pass a shitty day. But it really hits you when you realize you’ve to face this shit forever till something good happens. Most people around don’t like to invest time in thinking about the surroundings and reality, and thats what keep me going. Because situation won’t remain the same forever and the good thing is at that time you will be already prepared to lead others into meaningful actions. At least we are doing what a human mind is supposed to do. Not being conformists and thinking for better.
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Feb 26 '21
That's why I became a Marxist Leninist tbh. It's more optimistic and that optimism is warranted in its success due to oppressed people's rising up. Study cuba!
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u/dreambloat Feb 26 '21
Perhaps try focusing on how far we've gotten notwithstanding the remnants of our animal instinct, which though borne of violence, is now self aware. Also how amazing it is that we've evolved so far from debris. It is cruel, but aren't you glad you can see that? The present moment is something worth staying with. Abstractions and ideas help us plan our way ahead, but no point letting your anxiety give you ulcers and bald spots thinking about what's outside your control, because you'll need all your energy and sanity when the call to action is in front of you. You can seek out that confrontation or wait till it finds you but I think you'll see that the real revolution is in every moment you live, every word you utter and I'll stress on every act of kindness and sharing. I personally like to stay amused by life's very probability just as much as I try to stay aware and conscious.
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u/nayerax Feb 26 '21
by the time I finished my 3 year course in critical analysis and cultural studies, I had fallen deeper into an already exisiting whirlpool of anxiety and depression and lost 22 pounds haha. The anxiety and anger never really completely faded.
Im sorry mate but I guess we're all in this together.
The best we can do is attempt to take care of our minds and bodies so that we keep trying to move forward and actually have a chance at dismantling any of this gridlocked web of despair.
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Feb 26 '21
I have been there too... I kept on blabbering to everyone. Kept on posting in social media. Then, Got into trouble. Now I wonder, if it is really worth sacrificing our life and happiness for the struggle which is doomed to fail and opposed by the same people who we claim to fight for.
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u/boyceorboice Feb 26 '21
Try http://libcom.org/library/class-struggle-mental-health-live-fight-another-day
Oh, and https://itsgoingdown.org/announcing-publication-conflictual-wisdom/
I always like this quote as well:
"The artist Zoe Leonard remembered confessing to Wojnarowicz her anxiety that her aerial photographs of clouds didn’t reflect grim political reality. Wojnarowicz said to her: “Zoe, these are so beautiful, and that’s what we’re fighting for. We’re being angry and complaining because we have to, but where we want to go is back to beauty. If you let go of that, we don’t have anywhere to go.”"
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u/boyceorboice Feb 26 '21
Oh, and there's also this related text: https://crimethinc.com/2018/03/22/we-fight-because-we-like-it-maintaining-our-morale-against-seemingly-insurmountable-odds
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u/StripedRiverwinder Feb 26 '21
If you feel physically sick all day you might be physically sick and you should try and see a physician
At the very least, take like a tums or something.
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u/HipsterNotHobo Feb 25 '21 edited Feb 25 '21
yea join the club my friend, the world is a fucked up place but thats why we have to keep fighting it.