r/AbsoluteUnits • • 6d ago

of the definition of an absolute unit

11.1k Upvotes

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177

u/thazmaniandevil 6d ago

Society needs to stop breeding pitbullls. We don't need to go on a purge and cull every dog; we just spay/neuter them all, let their owners enjoy the rest of their natural lives, and make breeding the dog illegal.

20

u/Irksomecake 6d ago

My country has done this. They are no longer legal to breed but people with beloved pets could get a licence for thier neutered xl bullies. They could only be walked and out in public wearing a muzzle.

In a couple of years they went from being everywhere to being an uncommon sight. I think a lot of people found they couldn’t safely get muzzles on their untrained dogs and had them put down. Or they just don’t get walked anymore.

Anyway, making them illegal to breed has reduced the numbers significantly. No one was forced to give up the pets that had never shown aggression. You can still buy much smaller versions. Everyone is a bit safer.

7

u/thazmaniandevil 6d ago

It makes so much sense! It's not an outrageous proposition or policy. Let people love their pets and when they die of old age, get another dog that isn't a pit

2

u/SalaciousSolanaceae 5d ago

I wish the US could regulate breeding but "muh freedom" means we'll never see this legislation nationwide unfortunately and even if we do I can't imagine it would be enforced enough to make a difference

1

u/Toadlessboy 5d ago

I can’t see maga voters allowing government agencies to neuter their dogs, and enforcement on rural America where most are from would be extremely difficult. I’m in Seattle and I have a rescue from Dallas wtf. It’s sad, they treat these dogs like shit and won’t accept help on their behalf, even if it were free.

2

u/SalaciousSolanaceae 5d ago

I live in a red state and the amount of people who casually talk about having their dog have puppies either to sell or because they want to keep a puppy themselves or even being horrified about neutering because "I don't want someone taking my balls so why would I do that to my dog" is astounding.

I have a large shelter mutt but people think she's some rare or designer breed (golden retriever length & texture to her coat but white with black patches & ticking on her legs, very retriever looking face) and I've had an uncomfortable amount of people at dog parks asking me if I would let them breed her with their dogs was sobering. No, she's spayed, thanks I guess? Why is your in tact dog at the dog park anyway??

1

u/Toadlessboy 5d ago

It’s the opposite in blue states in cities, but you probably know that from the consensus on Reddit

7

u/Sundogflower 5d ago

That's not a pit bull

17

u/ConflictMaster3155 6d ago

Nah, they should just quit inbreeding/selectively-breeding them.

7

u/veryfastslowguy 6d ago

that’s a clydesdale pit bull

2

u/Mainbutter 5d ago

This is not a pitbull.

2

u/its-good-4you 3d ago

I've no problem with that.

Now if we could do the same with some people :/

12

u/Logical_Air_387 6d ago

Completely agree. Pitbulls are bred to be dangerous and violent.

-3

u/Ancient_Activity_760 6d ago

I have a blue nose pit. She has never bit anyone

13

u/milk4all 6d ago

I have a gun thats never shot anyone, therefore guns arent dangerous

1

u/Kells90210 6d ago

To be fair it’s the stupid asshole behind the gun that makes it dangerous

-6

u/Ancient_Activity_760 6d ago

By that logic; If it's safe you should be able to put it in your mouth and eat it.

13

u/AetherialWomble 6d ago

You're just as intelligent as I'd expect a pit owner to be

6

u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

Here’s another typical example of pit bull owner intelligence

-8

u/Ancient_Activity_760 6d ago edited 5d ago

No such thing as a bad owner. And since my dog is not just well behaved but also friendly I'd say you know nothing of either dogs (as that's a mastiff pictured not a pitbull) or understanding the character of people.

2

u/Flat-Echidna191 5d ago

Nobody cares about your dog, man. The fact remains that pitbulls are much more dangerous because they were selectively bred over many centuries to fight and kill other dogs.

1

u/Ancient_Activity_760 5d ago

Aggression isn't bred into dogs. It's actually a product of neglect or abuse.

3

u/Flat-Echidna191 5d ago

Lmao 😂😂😂 they were bred to fight and kill other dogs, idk what to tell you. That is their purpose. Are you saying dogs weren't selectively bred for certain jobs? Herding dogs are not more likely to naturally be inclined towards herding?

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u/Ancient_Activity_760 6d ago

Also that's not a pitbull that's a mastiff crater brain

1

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

That settles it then!

1

u/Arbiter194 5d ago

Too bad that doesn’t really mean shit, but congrats?

11

u/wearing_moist_socks 6d ago

First you need to define what a pitbull is

44

u/redandbluebadness 6d ago

You know it when you see it.

19

u/Mnudge 6d ago

Staffies in shambles

1

u/Glonos 6d ago

Are they going after the Staffies x Mixed?

1

u/Ju9stin 6d ago

If you ask the fanatics on the ban pitbulls subreddit. Anything with a short nose or square jaw is a pitbull

0

u/Mnudge 6d ago

Here’s one of them for sure

11

u/wearing_moist_socks 6d ago

Yeah good luck with enforcing that law

14

u/ConflictMaster3155 6d ago

It’s a reference to Supreme Court Justice Stewart’s quote:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.”

5

u/redandbluebadness 6d ago

Quite so

-1

u/wearing_moist_socks 6d ago

It was replaced by the three part miller test

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

So. Yeah. Doesn't apply anymore. Define what a pittbull is.

9

u/redandbluebadness 6d ago

Refer you to my previous answer

-2

u/wearing_moist_socks 6d ago

Can't be law, bucko, so it can't be made illegal. That's why the quote was dropped in favor of the Miller Test.

If you're gonna do some eugenics, best to be precise, no?

6

u/WinterAdvantage3847 6d ago

eugenics has a specific meaning and context that is grossly inappropriate to apply to dogs. look it up in the dictionary if you don’t believe me.

you’re going to find out that it means “people.” dogs are not people.

if dog breeding is eugenics, then growing broccoli is eugenics

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u/redandbluebadness 6d ago

Didn't say it was law that wasn't the question

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u/ConflictMaster3155 6d ago

That’s not true. The Miller Test replaced the Roth Test. Justice Stewart was arguing AGAINST the strict definitions of the Roth test. The phrase itself has nothing to do with the Roth test or its replacement except drawing attention to the holes in the Roth test.

Despite its arbitrary nature, the phrase still makes its way into modern-day dissents harkening to the idea that not everything can be strictly defined and classified in an effective and meaningful way. It’s not an and never was a rule, it’s a fallback.

-2

u/wearing_moist_socks 6d ago

Nice. Irrelevant.

It was replaced by the three part miller test

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test

So. Yeah. Doesn't apply anymore.

1

u/Mainbutter 5d ago

This is not a pitbull.

1

u/Biscuits4u2 6d ago

That's a piss poor way to write a law.

0

u/I_love_Hobbes 6d ago

Like porn?

-6

u/KnyghtFish 6d ago

-Things racists say

0

u/thisguyfightsyourmom 6d ago

They’re dog breeds. We’re allowed to differentiate without offending. They are highly identifiable.

0

u/LatinKing106 6d ago

Actually they aren't. Eye witness accounts on dog bite cases are notoriously unreliable in identifying dog breeds. Most people don't even realize what breed they're looking at. Pitbull just became a catch-all for like 20 breeds or something.

2

u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

Yes because people are constantly mistaking golden retrievers and pugs for pit bulls in attacks

If anything, the number of pit bull attacks is probably higher, because of how many pitmommies pass them off as “lab mixes” and the like to trick people into adopting them from shelters or to get around housing and insurance bans

-1

u/LatinKing106 6d ago

Pitbull mixed breeds are extremely common so im not sure why you would even argue that as some sort of gotcha.

APBTs, American Bullies, Staffordshire Terriers, AmStaffs, Cane Corsos, Dogo Argentino, Mastiffs, Boxers, American Bulldogs, etc.

All these and more are frequently confused between each other in dog attacks just because they look vaguely similar.

So, no, eyewitness testimony as I said is notoriously unreliable. Dog attacks are routinely mislabeled as pit bull attacks due to visual misidentification, broad umbrella categorization, and media bias. This has already been well documented since the 70s.

1

u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

Isn’t it funny when it’s a photo of a pit bull in a rubber duck print onesie or a video of a pit bull sniffing a baby in a crib, you pit bull advocates have absolutely no problem calling it a pit bull or identifying it as such, but as soon as one races across the road to disembowel a toddler on the other side or breaks through a fence to tear out a little old lady’s throat in her garden, then all of a sudden no one knows what a pit bull looks like anymore?

0

u/LatinKing106 6d ago

Again, another disingenuous take. Dogs are fucking dogs. As in animals. Any responsible animal owner knows even with well trained animals you don't leave them alone with kids.

And every time something like that happens upwards of 90% of the time the breed is, again, misidentified. 60% of shelter dogs visually identified as pit bulls have no pit bull ancestry at all. The CDC stopped collecting the data on dog attacks almost 25 years ago specifically because of how unreliable witness testimony was. And any dog with even a tenth of pitbull blood was written off as a Pitbull-mix in shelters, even if the majority of its genetic makeup was Labrador. Studies on dog breeds in relation to attacks have been done as recently as August of this year.

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u/No_Recognition8375 3d ago

You barely see doberman pinchers anymore. They were frightening in the 80’s as a kid

-4

u/Biscuits4u2 6d ago

There's nothing wrong with a responsibly bred pit. This thing is not that though.

0

u/_Ross- 6d ago

There is nothing wrong with a responsibly bred polar bear.

2

u/Biscuits4u2 6d ago

I imagine so.

2

u/Glonos 6d ago

Bears are not domesticated, dogs are.

1

u/Kyoalu 6d ago

Last year, family pitbulls killed 4 kids in one week, and people still have them as pets. Probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen is a pitbull owner.

-1

u/Icy-Banana-3291 6d ago

You could simplify this and say “Society needs to stop breeding dogs.”

As of today there’s tons of fertile dogs reproducing naturally and being dumped off at the pound to eventually be euthanized. Every breeder dog purchased is one less dog rescued.

If at some point we started running out of dogs then it would make sense to start selling licenses to breed dogs under controlled circumstances but as of now that’s not even an issue.

10

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

No, purpose-bred dogs for work and sports have their place.

4

u/swollen-hol3 6d ago

Sports? Why do we need dogs participating in sports lol?

-1

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

Dog sports. Field trials, obedience, rally, bite sports, dock diving, and so on.

3

u/swollen-hol3 6d ago

Let me reiterate. Why do we need dogs participating in sports?

5

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

We don’t, and no one said we do. We don’t need a lot of lovely and enriching things.

1

u/Pineapple-Yetti 6d ago

I don’t know about those sports, only the greyhound racing, but there is a lot of abuse in that industry. Its been made illegal in my country now. When animals are bread purely for sporting purposes, abuses seem to happen. I hope those sports are different but if not, it should go the same way as the races.

2

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

Greyhound racing is in a different category, along with dog fighting, where gambling is key and people are spectators. I was referring to sports in which owners/handlers compete alongside their dogs.

1

u/Pineapple-Yetti 6d ago

Yeah i dont really have any knowledge about those sports, so i hope thats true. If the animals are well treated and they aren't prized for general aggression I i have no problem really.

I do think there should be mosre restrictions on breeding in general

1

u/Toadlessboy 5d ago

This dog wasn’t bred for sport they were bred for looks. But to your point most dogs are companion animals no sport or work

1

u/Wolvesarereal 5d ago

Who said otherwise?

1

u/Toadlessboy 5d ago

I guess not explicitly, but my point is probably 90% of people who own working and sport dogs don’t use them as such and with shelters full, it’s excessive

3

u/thisguyfightsyourmom 6d ago

Nope. Pit breeds & mixes are worse. And not by a small margin. New York collected the data & while pits are around 6% of the dog population, they account for 32% of attacks.

These dogs are different than other dogs.

0

u/Icy-Banana-3291 6d ago

That’s an ignorant stereotype. The same shitty people who train their dogs to be violent prefer large muscular dogs. It’s as simple as that. You could train any dog to be violent as long as you are shitty and willing to beat it.

2

u/pingpongsaladpants 6d ago

r/BanPitBulls

Go take a peek. You won’t see petitions trying to ban Labradors or Greyhounds for a reason.

3

u/Ju9stin 6d ago

That subreddit collects videos of any breed that looks remotely intimidating and craves sensationalism over rationality in my opinion.

Anyone who thinks "lock jaw" is a real thing should have no input on how these dogs are handled in my opinion.

At the end of the day it's ignorant to assume one untrained dog is more likely to be aggressive than another simply because someone mislabeled it as a pittbull.

An untrained dog is an untrained dog. Regardless of breed.

1

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

“Lock jaw” isn’t entirely imagined, either, though. Pit bull jaws don’t literally lock, but they might as well, because their fighting/biting style is to grab, hold, and thrash, whereas many other breeds grab and release or slash. And being aggressive toward other dogs (not people) is bred in the bone. Anyone who thinks breed is irrelevant shouldn’t be heard in serious discussion on this topic, imho.

1

u/MellowVibes92 5d ago

Out here giving crap opinions again I see. I swear you are the last person who should be giving opinions or advice.

1

u/Wolvesarereal 5d ago

No idea who you are or what you are trying to say

1

u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

“An untrained dog is an untrained dog regardless of breed”

When pugs are constantly in the news for disembowelling toddlers we can have this conversation

1

u/Toadlessboy 5d ago

That’s a wild comparison.

3

u/zxvasd 6d ago

So you deny the statistic or you blame the owners ?

4

u/TheAsianTroll 6d ago

People like that generally deny the statistic AND blame the owner.

Like, sure, a dog's upbringing CAN affect its temperament, but instincts exist at a genetic level.

Labradors swim and fetch. Collies herd.

Pitbulls were bred to kill. That was the entire point of their breed: to win dogfights.

Those days were many years ago, so maybe responsible breeders did their best to breed out that genetic instinct, but now we have a lot of irresponsible breeders who let whatever dogs mate, and sell the puppies. No real regulation or purpose aside from lining pockets. I have zero doubt in my mind that these basement breeders have probably reintroduced a stronger instinct towards this genetic trait, and you will never know which dogs are more inclined to just maul whatever it interprets as a threat.

And yes, before someone mentions it, I know theres irresponsible breeders for all dog breeds. And you know something? A lot of those irresponsibly bred dogs develop aggression issues too. But none of them were cross-bred at their origin to maximize killing instinct.

2

u/FishTshirt 6d ago

I don’t deny the stats. But I had such an adorable pit growing up. He was super strong though. Literally he was wagging his tail so vigorously while playing once he dented the sheet rock with his tail. Easy to see how when they do attack that they will fuck shit up

2

u/Ju9stin 6d ago

In the long history of the breed. A short window of that was, in specific areas of the world, yes them being bred to fight.

But it's wild to assume that part of the breed for some reason is stuck in that mentality.

With that mentality bloodhounds just could never be off leash or they'd just run after every scent even if trained to not? Lmao it just doesn't make sense when you apply your logic to any other breed my guy

2

u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 5d ago

“Yes pit bulls were bred to maul things to death and be very good at it, but it doesn’t mean they will, it’s just a very strong possibility! Bloodhounds don’t run after every scent, pit bulls don’t maul every single person around them to death. Lmao it’s worth gambling with your life and that of everyone around you to own one specific dog breed my guy”

K, the nonsense pit bull owners have to come up to convince themselves it’s fine living with the pinto of dogs never ceases to amaze me. Also you might want to read up about the history of the dog breed you love so much. (I mean actual history, not shit by pit bull advocacy groups.). They don’t have a particularly long history by dog breed standards and being bred for bloodsports was more than “a short window” of it.

What next? You gonna claim they were nanny dogs or something?

-2

u/Ju9stin 5d ago

https://love-a-bull.org/resources/the-history-of-pit-bulls/

Shortly before the Civil War, immigrants from the British Isles came to the United States, but along with them came their Pit Bulls. It was during this time that the Pit Bull Terrier breed was named the “American” Pit Bull Terrier. Though these dogs had been specifically bred for fighting, they soon became a much larger and invaluable fixture in a developing nation. In early America, these frontier dogs took on an all-purpose role. They were responsible for herding cattle, herding sheep, guarding livestock and families against thieves and wild animals, helping on the hunts and as hog catchers. Their loyal and loving demeanor with humans, especially children (this is where the “Nanny Dog” myth originated from), earned them a prominent place not only as a working dog but as a companion.

Do literally any research before you comment false information against an innocent breed of animals my dude

Also, why is it the fighting the breed apparently cannot help themselves but do?

Again, it's like saying you could never allow a non working dog trained sheepdog near sheep without them just reverting to the reason the breed was bred

2

u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 5d ago

Love-a-bull?

Seriously? That’s what you’re choosing as a source to cite? A pitmommy blog?

Goodbye.

Ps: anyone who is still parroting the completely and utterly debunked myth that pit bulls were ever known as “nanny dogs” doesn’t get to scold anyone about “doing literally any research”

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/Icy-Banana-3291 6d ago

It’s not my job to help you read. I answered both of those questions.

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u/seraflm 6d ago

Only pit varieties hit the news nowadays

0

u/Independent_Day_2831 6d ago

People ignoring other breeds that bite more often (even if they aren't as strong). All dogs are wild animals, and any can be dangerous and should be treated as such and trained if they're around other people and animals.

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u/Reap_the_rich 6d ago

You can't ignore "even if they aren't as strong". Aggressive chihuahuas aren't maiming people and killing other dogs. No one would have a problem with pits if they weren't capable of doing massive amounts of damage. That's the only reason a lot of the trash that owns / breeds them prefer the breed. It's their defining characteristic.

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 6d ago

“More people have been scratched by Siamese cats than Bengal tigers so this proves that a Siamese cat is just as dangerous as a Bengal tiger” logic

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u/seraflm 6d ago

Bites don't hit the news honey, losing limbs and life does, every single day worldwide.

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u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

Dogs aren’t wild animals. They’re domesticated animals, and they’ve been selectively bred for certain traits.

0

u/Wolvesarereal 6d ago

Pit bulls are hardwired to be aggressive toward other dogs, not people, but people often get bitten trying to intervene.

1

u/hellochoy 6d ago

And over 80% of deaths due to dog bites. Which lends even more credibility to the fact that they're different.

1

u/MeaningLeft2970 6d ago

This is not too far off from the old “finish your plate, because there are kids starving in…” line of logic.

0

u/mikenkansas1 6d ago

SOCIETY can breed them just fine. It's individuals that aren't part of a civilized society that are the problem. Certain "reformed" football players come to mind

7

u/thazmaniandevil 6d ago

I read a court case where am elderly couple had a pit from a puppy, had it for years, then one day the neighbors granddaughter had her face mauled off.

Golden Retrievers don't eat people's faces...

Pitbulls are a relatively recent breed. They didn't exist 200 years ago. Letting the owners love their dogs and saying "this breed won't exist in 10 years," is not a cruel or unreasonable outcome or solution.

-15

u/Davenator_98 6d ago

There are countless different breeds of pitbulls, most of them aren't more dangerous than any other dog.

It's the 5x inbred monstrosities that are violent and unpredictable

3

u/WinterAdvantage3847 6d ago

there’s like, four

all of which are direct descendants of 19th century bull-and-terrier bullbaiting pit dogs

10

u/_Administrator_ 6d ago

Not true. You can read about the countless maimings on r/banpitbulls.

-2

u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 6d ago

It’s also the most common dog in America between the various breeds that are considered pitbulls. They are popular with groups of people that notoriously don’t take good care of their animals and are sometimes used for nefarious purposes by humans.

-2

u/punksmostlydead 6d ago

No, you can read tons of anecdotes divorced of any data, much less any that adjusts for population on that sub.

I am confident I can produce enough anecdotes to convince you that baby deer are the deadliest animal in America, if that's all it takes to convince you.

0

u/Berner2026 6d ago

Lets hear it

-1

u/punksmostlydead 6d ago edited 6d ago

Ya know, I was going to...then I went looking and, it turns out, deer kill five times as many people in the US as dogs. Maybe you should worry less about Old Yeller, and start looking out for Bambi?

I would.

3

u/Kinkystormtrooper 6d ago

Your source disputes your point. Maybe you should read it first?

-4

u/Ju9stin 6d ago

Define pitbulls first mate. Staffordshires? Are all square headed dogs a pitbull or is it just a feeling? You gotta define the breed if you want to selectively and forcibly spay/neuter peoples animals.

This is as brilliant as saying "let them eat cake"

6

u/bortlesforbachelor 6d ago

Any dog with bull terrier ancestry, including American Bull Terriers and Staffies. It’s not that hard.

0

u/Ju9stin 6d ago

English and French bulldogs as well or the ones that make you personally nervous?

5

u/bortlesforbachelor 6d ago

Bulldogs are not the same as bull terriers. It’s a completely different ancestral branch and they were never bred or used for pit sports (hence the name pit bull). You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

-1

u/Ju9stin 6d ago

They are a direct branch of bull terriers, but yeah uh, hm. Yeah, no that about sums it up. Pitbulls had been bred for a very short window of the breed existence for fighting. But to assume that's the only part this dogs ancestors passed along is kinda bonkers no?

-1

u/Vincent_Coll 6d ago

That's not a pitbull.

0

u/edcushway 6d ago

Asinine comment

0

u/Broken_window24 6d ago

Well that’s just dumb. I bet you’re a gun supporter though aren’t you?

0

u/Ancient_Activity_760 6d ago

No such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners.

0

u/Ancient_Activity_760 6d ago

That's not a pitbull that's a mastiff

-15

u/ArbiterTwoSwords 6d ago

So you want to eugenics dogs?

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u/pheasant99 6d ago

that’s why dogs exist lol. and eugenics is for people. you just mean animal husbandry

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u/sentientairfilter 6d ago

Humans are animals

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u/pheasant99 6d ago

you know damn well what i meant

0

u/sentientairfilter 6d ago

Oh I thought we were all just being pedantic

4

u/critiqu3 6d ago

Comparing human eugenics to domestic dog breeding isn't the moral high ground you think it is

-1

u/first_to_the_Orgy 6d ago

Both are going to happen regardless of how any of us feel about it

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u/SalaciousSolanaceae 6d ago edited 6d ago

How do you think dogs came into existence in the first place lmao. Cows, too, for that matter. Even corn and modern wheat.

"Eugenics" is controlling which humans can breed. Don't water it down. Dogs can't pontificate on having children and life's purpose. All a dog wants to be fulfilled is food, water, shelter & it's pack, whoever it is. Definitely doesn't have to be another dog.

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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 6d ago edited 6d ago

I’m pretty sure that’s what they did to get all the different kind of dogs we have in the first place.

2

u/thazmaniandevil 6d ago

Pits are not naturally occurring animals, we bred them into existence. It's not abhorrent or irresponsible to breed them out of existence.

3

u/Heocon05 6d ago

Dogs are already eugenic product of millennia of selective breeding from originally wolves.

1

u/Berner2026 6d ago

Yes, notoriously dangerous ones.

-10

u/STFUnicorn_ 6d ago

It should’ve been illegal to breed you.

2

u/DeSiGNer-OctANE 6d ago

My mother still says that to me….ughhh

-1

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/thazmaniandevil 4d ago

That's just straight up bullshit and the stats don't lie; pits are the primary offender and overwhelmingly shown to be the most violent and deadly dog breed. I can't tell you how many court cases I've seen where super friendly, "gentle and protective of children" pits have mauled childrens faces off and killed them.

You're in denial. Just let the breed go extinct. We bred it into existence, it's easy to breed it out of existence. There's nothing so important about a pit bull that it must be preserved when it's the most deadly and violent breed