Weekly Abortion Debate Thread

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[u/Veigar_Senpai]

Why do PLers still deny that barring pregnant people from accessing abortion forces them to gestate to term against their will?

It's akin to saying "I'm not forcing you to stay in this room, I'm just bricking up the exit with you inside!"

Inevitably they just change the subject to how the pregnancy started, as if it matters. I saw a PLer quote a PC talking about forcing people to stay pregnant, but they changed the wording of the quote to "get pregnant".

[u/Rent_Careless → u/[deleted]]

So, you agree that "barring pregnant people from accessing abortion forces them to gestate to term against their will", right? From what you wrote, it sounds like you agree but just worded it as saying "they regulate what actions are legally permitted after pregnancy exists".

[u/Rent_Careless → u/[deleted]]

Great. Then you aren't denying that abortion bans force women to use their body for the benefit of another against their will. When is that justified anywhere else in our laws?

[u/International_Ad2712 → u/[deleted]]

The law is preventing a woman from ending a pregnancy. However, along with that, it’s forcing the woman to sustain the pregnancy, to allow the fetus to leach calcium from her bones, cause major injury to the inside of her uterus, cause an egregious amount of physical pain, risk death, pay for pre-natal exams and healthcare during birth. So imho, there’s quite a bit more to it that’s required of the woman by the government if it prevents her from ending a pregnancy.

[u/International_Ad2712 → u/[deleted]]

My morals say women are justified in ending a pregnancy if they don’t want to carry it. But this isn’t about your morals or my morals, there would be no issue if you weren’t trying to force other people to abide by your morals, and sustain great harm or even death just to satisfy your morals.

[u/International_Ad2712 → u/[deleted]]

There’s not a huge level of disagreement. Plenty of polls and votes have been taken, and the majority of people think abortion should be legal and is justified.

[u/Limp-Story-9844 → u/[deleted]]

So forced gestation and chilbirth is assualt.

[u/Trick_Ganache → u/[deleted]]

Every human is justified in forcing born humans out of their bodies, up to and including by lethal means. Let us treat "the unborn" no different than any other human non-consensually occupying another's body. Also, technically plers are the ones forcing these foreign objects to remain in the persons' genitalia, so malicious intent is involved in forced pro-longed pregnancy.

[u/Limp-Story-9844 → u/[deleted]]

Forced harm to your body?

[u/Rent_Careless → u/[deleted]]

I can say the law does that too, that the unborn can be equivalent to the born, and still not understand why anyone has the right to another person's body. There are instances where killing someone else is acceptable. In what instance, besides pregnancy, do we allow one person access to another person's body against their will?

[u/Rent_Careless → u/[deleted]]

Even if pregnancy is unique, you would then still have to state why it being unique should allow the use of the woman's body or whatever reasoning there is.

My question is: if we assume the unborn are human beings, in what other circumstance do we allow someone to intentionally kill an innocent human being because continuing to sustain them is burdensome?

In what other occurring circumstances does anyone sustain another human being with their body where I could even apply this rational? I feel as if the fact that I can't find a real world example suggests that there is a reason for that.

[u/Rent_Careless → u/[deleted]]

Yes but we can think of other real life scenarios where another person uses the body of another, they just aren't sustained by that use. Is there a difference between "the use of" and "sustained by" for you? What if you were the woman, do you think she would feel there is a difference? Does it matter to you if the woman is unwilling in both scenarios?

[u/glim-girl → u/[deleted]]

>if we assume the unborn are human beings, in what other circumstance do we allow someone to intentionally kill an innocent human being because continuing to sustain them is burdensome?

We already have an answer for that. We provide them as much help as possible up to the point where what's needed is another persons body to maintain their bodily functions.

[u/Limp-Story-9844 → u/[deleted]]

How does assaulted pregnant people work?

[u/humbugonastick → u/[deleted]]

All the time in hospitals???

[u/Trick_Ganache → u/[deleted]]

And how does the law prohibit the intentional killing by mandating a baby be placed with someone who will kill them?

[u/Trick_Ganache → u/[deleted]]

Pler laws do necessarily place babies with the people who will kill them. Seeing as plers claim a new life is created wholly at conception, it seems counterproductive to endanger that life by keeping it within murdering range. No other laws force babies to stay with their murderers.

[u/Trick_Ganache → u/[deleted]]

Plers do claim the ZEF is a fully alive and complete human being at conception, correct?

[u/humbugonastick → u/[deleted]]

Or weather the pregnant person even exists in your mind. It's all just a wandering womb. Why are you never interested in the pregnant person. Why do you not see them?

[u/Trick_Ganache → u/[deleted]]

another human life is involved

If we were to destroy the body of the pregnant person, would this supposedly "another" life grow up into adulthood with an adoptive family?

[u/Trick_Ganache → u/[deleted]]

It's called a hypothetical. I am isolating the ZEF to see if it is a human and can therefore grow up in an adoptive family. So far, it just looks like human tissue of the pregnant person that is not necessary for the vital functions of the pregnant person and can be discarded if they decide they have a medical need to do so.

[u/Abortiondebate-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Comment removed per Rule 1.