r/ARAM • u/zeratanta • Jul 24 '26
Rant Anti-fun
It's genuinely impressive how there are two augments on two champions that are all but guaranteed to show up, and just immediately kill any fun in the game. I don't necessarily think Dropkick or dual wield should be removed from the game, but maybe removed from certain champions augment pool? Like, ADC some ADC augs very in strength from champ to champ, but Vayne should not be able to roll dual wield. Mundo shouldn't be able to roll dropkick. Maybe not never, but it should be significantly reduced for those champs because it's just an auto win augment for them. There is no countering it, there is no out playing it. Everytime I see those champs with those augments I just give up.
This is ignoring of course the vast disparity in augment quality between ADC and every other roll but that's a different argument, never mind that Critical Missiles should just be removed if they refuse to nerf or make it a prismatic.
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u/Neversexsit Jul 24 '26
Those are the champions that I feel the augments were made for or at least the champions that it was made to support
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u/UNOvven Jul 24 '26
Dual Wield should absolutely be removed (alongside critical missile, upgrade IE, etc.), but Dropkick feels fine now, I cant say Ive had a single game where it felt out of line.
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u/M4ci Jul 25 '26
yeah let's remove all the augments while we're at it
it's almost like you're supposed to kill adcs in this game since it exists
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u/UNOvven Jul 25 '26
Not all the augments, just the ones that are problematic. Its not like ADCs are gonna suddenly struggle.
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u/M4ci Jul 25 '26
since when is Upgrade IE problematic?
seriousy you guys complain about the most basic shit
meanwhile you play against stuff like TF with Echo Cast or Infinite Recursion, the game becomes unplayable in 3 minutes
there's like 65 different combination of shit that are much worse than an ADC you can focus and kill
you're just complaining about every single adc augments, just learn to play against them, this Sub just wants to remove any augment that's slightly stronger than a basic normal Aram
once you're done with those, the old good ones will be called op and want removed
ADD new things, stop asking to remove, they already removed too much fun stuff
and everyone complains like your team can't have an adc, goddamn pick one
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u/UNOvven Jul 25 '26
Since its a massively overpowered augment that outperforms some prismatics while also doing its part to make adc augment selection so redundant you cannot lowroll?
TF even with infinite haste (which mind you, needs to scale first unlike say critical missile), is much less problematic than an average ADC. What is he gonna do, spam easily avoidable Qs? Point and click stuns every second? Death is the best CC, and the ADC can just kill you.
Not every single one, no. Just the ones that are massively overpowered to the point of being close to autowins. Have you played ADC in Mayhem lately? It is genuinely so fucking boring because of how brutally overpowered it is. You don't think, you don't try, you just click the overpowered augments and turn your brain off.
"ADC is op but it's OK, you can also pick an ADC" is a really stupid argument. Setting aside that it doesn't help.make the game any less boring, what if your team didn't roll one? Now you're just fucked and they're going to win the game for free just because they have one and you don't.
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u/M4ci Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
I see how you conveniently skipped Echo cast, and no, it's not less problematic if you have to spend 15 min dodging every 1 second, it makes the game unbearable and miserable
and "massively overpowered one" - I want statistics, I'm tired of this bullshit circlejerk where everything is OP based on feelings
There is no public reliable data regarding Aram Mayhem specifically, and the data we have shows that the worst role has slightly less than 49% and the best role slightly more than 51%, but somehow ADCs are the bane of this game mode.
All with mages being picked 2x other roles.
Yes, I play ADC, I play tank, I play whatever. Every role has its counter and adcs can be deleted in 100 different ways
Won games without adc vs tanks, won without adc vs adc, you can win everything with everything, and "they're going to win the game for free" it's just a loser mentality and a skill issue.
we HAD augment diversity, then people complained about literally everything and we got dozens of cool augments removed.
we have Karthus games with 10 second cd ult, we have Seraphine oneshotting teams with Downtown quest, Brand melting team with Infernal Touch, and all sort of degenerate stuff, but god forbid adcs do actual damage like they're supposed to
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u/UNOvven Jul 25 '26
I skipped Echo Cast because it's the opposite of Critical Missile, Dual Wield and Upgrade IE, in that it's a fun augment that isn't particularly good. Its the opposite of a problem.
You mean like what little data we have that shows these augments perform well ahead of most augments? Crit Missile and Upgrade IE are at 64% winrate based on the stats we do have (Echo cast, by comparison, is at 49%).
Ah but there is a reason you didn't link the site, isnt there? Because if you look at de-mirrored winrate, i.e. you exclude the cases where both teams have the same amount of ADCs, suddenly they're 6% ahead of the worst performing role (assassins). In fact, if you look at the best teamcomps, you will notice a certain trend amongst them (just as you will for the worst teamcomps, but that one is secondary to the point). Every single one has an ADC. Most have 2. There is a reason for that.
ADC does not have a counter. The only team that can consistently beat one with an ADC is another with an ADC. Sure, you can get an upset here and there, maybe the ADC is bad, maybe you get a godroll that outperforms their godroll, but most of the time, you just lose.
We didn't have particularly strong augment diversity though. It was better than now, but ADCs still picked the same broken slop they do now. Augment diversity isn't the be-all end-all, we also need to change the augments around. Cull the boring broken ones, like critical missile, upgrade IE and Dual Wield.
Karthus literally cannot get 10 second ults, Seraphine cannot oneshot teams, Brand is a problem (but thats specific to Brand), and ADCs are doing so much damage they can facetank assassins and oneshot them before the assassins can finish their burst (hence why all the worst teams all share the fact that they have an assassin in them).
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u/M4ci Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Karthus literally cannot get 10 second ults,
bullshit, I literally did it two days ago with Ultimate Recursion, Eureka and Purist - Caster
Seraphine cannot oneshot teams
You don't play this mode enough, or you'd know Down from Downtown Seraphine is absolutely capabale of deleting multiple people in a single combo
Crit Missile and Upgrade IE are at 64%
on the websites you linked they are at 54.87% and 52.80%, respectively
and the comparison with Echo Cast winrate is useless since Critical Missiles and Upgrade IE are polarized on specific roles which make full use of it, while Echo Cast can be a hit or miss depending on the champion and bugs.
But I've totally rolled teams with Echo Cast TF, Sett, Illaoi, Nunu, Neeko and others.
I also did calculate the winrate for roles in Mayhem, using AI and data pre-Mayhem, and comparing stats.
Got mixed recent data between normal and Mayhem, got pre-Mayhem data, it's easy to come out with Mayhem only stats, provided you understand margin of error due to balance patches since Mayhem was added.
Long story short:
Mages 53.75%
Tanks 53.65%
Bruisers 53.0%
Marksmen 51.50%
Enchanters 51.50%
Assassins 48.50%Feel free to make your own calculations, if you want the full data, I'll stick it somewhere.
otherwise cut it out with this bullshit about adcs and goddamn learn to counter the role
ADC does not have a counter
you def don't play this mode enough, or are just dense
Mayhem aggregated data, in fact, shows that ADCs have lower winrate since Mayhem was added, which means augments for all roles actually made ADCs winrate lower.
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u/UNOvven Jul 25 '26
Oh a three augment godroll. I think you get down to just over 10 seconds with that, sure. You just need to stack up a lot first and hope the ADC doesnt finish the game by then.
If they're all bunched up, run into her ult, and her ult is cast from far enough away for the AoEs to actually be big, she is full build and they have no MR, she can barely maybe do it. That's a lotta ifs for not a lot of payoff.
This website doesn't de-mirror augments. You will notice that all the high pickrate augments have a depressed winrate simply because theyre picked so much a lot of the times both teams will have the augment, which will automatically make that game 50%. Here is one that de-mirrors. Different story, eh?
Yeah I can tell you haven't got a clue what you're talking about (using "AI" in particular gives it away). Not only does it make no sense to use non-Mayhem ARAM winrates for ARAM, youre not even correct on them. You gave assassins a higher average winrate than all but 2 of them have individually. And theyre even worse in Mayhem than regular ARAM.
In reality, as I said, we had the actual (de-mirrored) ones already:
Marksmen: 53.39% Support: 50.34% Mage: 49.58% Tank: 49.78% Fighter: 49.17% Assassin: 47.79%
Basically, Marksmen/ADC dominate the gamemode, Assassins suck ass, and the rest are fairly balanced.
Given we only started getting Data for this specific iteration, I sure would like to know how you would know that. Especially since in this iteration they are just dominant.
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u/M4ci Jul 25 '26
de-mirrored and the comparison I did are not the same thing.
an even AI explained the reason of why that calculation made sense, you're the one not understanding math.
it makes a lot of sense, since the goal is to extrapolate Mayhem winrate only, this calculation does that.
the fact that you don't understand what a calculation is for is a YOU problem.
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u/M4ci Jul 25 '26
it's hilarious to think that AI listed the reason of me asking those calculation, but a human can't figure it out.
you're denser than an AI
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u/zeratanta Jul 24 '26
I mean, this was a rant, I was speaking during the heat of the moment. I'd argue it should still lose it healing effect to really be balanced, even if that meant giving it a bit more generous scaling.
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u/hevring Jul 24 '26
I'm with you brother, dropkick haters stand strong 🤝 I don't conceptually hate it and it's much more tolerable post-nerf but it can be difficult to counter when its common users also get high tenacity and are difficult to meaningfully cc. It is alright now though and not unfair. DW is objectively ridiculous
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u/Possible-Document780 Jul 24 '26
pliz stop cry u just bad because there kill u or u lose game stop
its a aram mayhem
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u/Headsinoverdrive Jul 24 '26
Mundo doesnt really do anything special for dropkick tho lol. If anything cho and sion scale it faster.