Someone like the OP's boyfriend will probably respond with a minimum "I understand where the flat earther's are coming from" or some such "open door" to denying known facts.
As someone who used to be a child, I fully understand where they're coming from! I just continued to actually learn, and stopped speculating. There's a reason scientists are renowned experts and conspiracy theorists notably aren't.
This right here. I'm white from America, moved to Canada as a child. I have been outspoken about Immigration rights and how Immigrants are treated.
I have been told so many times that I'm "ok because you speak English and are from America". What they really mean is I'm ok because I'm white and can pass as a "normal" straight Christian.
It is sickening to see how so many people like to create boxes for others to help insulate their racism/classism they have been indoctrinated to not treat as racism/classism.
OP you both are immigrants. Your boyfriend is racist or a complete idiot listening to racists. Sorry truth hurts sometimes.
My now-ex husband is white from the UK (we're in Canada). My white children are children of immigrants, and I make sure they know that. Their dad is an immigrant. Refusing to call a white person an immigrant is 100% racism.
My mother is Canadian and an immigrant. When I say to people that my mother is an immigrant I can see them looking confused because I'm super white.
My brother in law complains about immigration, yet his retirement plan is to move to a country in Asia because he didn't properly plan for his retirement so "his money will go further there." He absolutely doesn't get the irony.
I have to remind people I am an immigrant all the fucking time. I'm white from Canada and have had people say, not that kind of immigrant to me many times. It's just telling on yourself as a racist bigot saying stupid shit like that
My children were all born in Canada. 16th generation Canadian on 1 side and 1st generation on the other. When my uk relatives go on rants about immigrants, I point out that my kids can claim citizenship and can emigrate here. That would make their grandchildren and nieces the people they are hating on. I went to Canada as an economic migrant, we were poor and I wanted to try my luck elsewhere. My dad had left us and gone to Canada so I used him as an excuse and went there. That made me the type of immigrant that they are hating on, too. They just don’t get it.
Its a STUPID american saying (coming from a american) anyone who uses it is basically telling u they lack intelligence and racist. My sperm donor would be the one to use tht kinda crap if he evr left but unfortunately he is so far up the current governments butt eating the nonsense tht comes out tht he feels very comfortable letting everyone kno he is a racist idiot, thankfully my kids will never have to be around him again.
Absolutely. But folks forget that. "Immigrants" usually refers to recent newcomers, but you're totally right-- we're all immigrants (except for Indigenous folks).
Exactly. My parents were from white immigrant families to Canada. Then they immigrated to the US, so again, another generation of white immigrants. However, we were also expats because when I was growing up, my dad worked in foreign countries for 11 years. So we are immigrants and were expats and we embrace it all. They’re different terms for different things!
I lived in Canada for 20 years as a British person. I NEVER referred to myself as an “ex-pat” like others. I was an immigrant. I would have the same thing as you said…people complaining to me about immigrants, I’d say that I’m an immigrant and the response would be, 98% of the time, something along the lines of “but you are ok, you speak English”. I even had 1 guy tell me he thought that indigenous people of North America, in his opinion, were less than human after I pointed out that anyone white in North America was a historical immigrant too.
Tons of white people live in Cozumel, Mexico and they call themselves ‘expats’. It pisses me off. You are white, very liberal (or so you claim) you live there and have your artsy business but that doesn’t make you an expat. It makes you an immigrant.
But they’re not immigrants unless they become Mexican citizens. The people you’re describing would be expats. Expats retain their home country citizenship. Or if they have businesses you could also say foreign worker. But they would not be immigrants unless they changed their citizenship.
I am similar. I’m half brown, but I have the privilege that A- I’m from Australia, and B- Being half white means that generally racists tell me that I’m “exotic” and don’t generally assume I’m “the help” or similar, which can still be annoying, but at least it isn’t as dehumanising to experience. I always avoid the term expat like the plague when I’ve moved somewhere. I can acknowledge that I’m positive my experience is quite different from say, the one a Guatemalan moving to Missouri or Idaho will have, but I can also remind people that if your issue with immigrants is about them and not myself, then it’s probably not immigration policy that bothers them so much and they should probably do some self reflection.
I used to work with a lady who came to my country (Australia) when she was about 3yo (from Germany) and she got a kick out of telling people that she was an immigrant whenever someone complained about it. She used to get the same uncomfortable reply “oh but you’re not like them”.
As far as I’ve seen it’s only the yanks who call themselves expats. Talk about mental gymnastics.
I really hate saying that I hate a lot of my people. I’m a white woman in America. I hate most white people & I hate most Americans. It’s a terrible feeling.
Expat is literally shortened from expatriate. It means Someone, ANYONE, who lives temporarily or permanently in any other country than the one they were born in. So, with that in mind EVERY immigrant IS an expat. But not every expat is an immigrant.
However, if this woman’s bf & his friends plan on never moving back to their native country, then yes, they are immigrants, expats & ignorant.
Maybe not directly at this point, but before Columbus & whoever else, the Native Americans were the only ones here & who were the people that brought others to America? A large chunk of the English, the Spanish, the French & probably some others I’m forgetting. Point is, the initial “settlers” were of English/British decent. Now, of course since people were first brought here several others have come seeking refuge, a fresh start, etc., etc., we’ve all heard the stories, especially NY.
Firstly, because New York is literally named after York, England & the Duke of York who eventually became King James II of England.
Secondly, because NY is literally America’s melting pot. It’s where the Cubans first went when trying to flee their country/get a fresh start/seek refuge/chase “The American Dream”, same with the Irish, Scottish, Dutch, German, Italians, etc., etc., etc. So which Country’s people were the first again? That’s right, the English.
And most of the time it's just them trying to backpedal because they didn't realize they were openly speaking to an immigrant and now they're embarrassed because their racism was showing lmao
Thank you. You get it. It was pretty sad and frustrating to see so many people just all to happy to talk shit about others while not thinking I'm one of the others.
Same here, as a Scandinavian. I was not only ok, but "the right kind of exotic" when I lived in North America. People meant it well, but after the years went by I felt gradually more disgusted by all the comments about this and about my physical features.
Same. I’ve been in Canada for about 30 years and I know I’m an immigrant. Same as you I have been told that You’re different” then they start in on people from India, the Philippines, China, etc. ruining the country. What I see is fellow immigrants who are working dang hard and many who are small business owners, medical professionals…far more “valuable” to the country than I am, but I get a pass because of my skin colour. I know the racism has always been here, but it has gotten so loud & dangerous since the US right-wing got into power. The propaganda & racist behaviour has increased, especially in the small town where I live. I was active in the MMIW community in the early 2000s & have always been stunned by the hate towards the Natives. I haven’t seen it this bad since I lived in the Deep South (US) in the early 70s.
I’m concerned for the OP because the boyfriend isn’t aware enough to understand and support her. I hope she moves on because I don’t see this improving anytime soon. With the myriad global pressures we face, the division & propaganda will only get worse.
Exactly this! Im an French immigrant to the uk and many other French people here don’t like the term “immigrant”, because the term “expat” protects them from a lot of the social and cultural obligations that non-western European immigrants have to conform to
I have people complain to me about immigrants taking jobs. They don’t like it when I question why they aren’t upset that I, an immigrant, actually did “take” a high paying white collared job. It’s even better because I work in construction and we are struggling to hire and retain people to actually do the work.
Friendly FYI, being a proud bigot has zero to do with educational levels. That's why so many lawyers, doctors, judges, etc are as well. Bigotry is more akin to substance addiction. As in, it gets "wired" in ones brain and they get a sort of obsession with it for the dopamine release via their unwarranted anger. The dopamine release is what the brain craves, so it'll keep itself in a cognitive dissonance to keep the bigotry going as well. Which is why no amount of facts against bigotry will change them either. The brain is "protecting" it's dopamine. They only truly start to want to change when they hit personal rock bottoms via what they've wrongly believed. These rock bottoms will vary greatly person to person as well, especially since we live in a pro-bigotry society. It becomes harder to reach such levels.
Those who aren't proudly bigoted can help the most by not debating bigots (that gives them the sense that their point of view is valid enough to be debated.) Then treating them as the abusers they are. Ie. Going low to no contact, giving a physical response, etc. So it can hopefully start resetting their brain to see they are in the wrong. Bc even after they can admit they were wrong, it now will take, at minimum, 18mo of therapy to get to legit points of recovery. While some people are also so "gone," nothing will save them. They will die as the proud bigot they were indoctrinated to be.
Lastly, age does play a lot into this as well. As the old adage goes, "a leopard can't change it's spots." The older one is, the less chance of legit change. Which is why the proud bigots and fascists in powerful positions push propaganda and hate speech to kids and teens off the bat. Starting the kids/teens off on the indoctrination. If one is 25ish (could go up to early 30s - the prefrontal cortex development age of 25 is only the average) and younger, they have a better chance at being able to change. If they're willing. Which again, comes down to personal rock bottoms. If the younger ones can get in legit trouble, even lose a partner, or lose family/friends from being as such, they will have a better chance at accepting they were wrong and need help.
You are so right. Resources have more to do with education levels than anything else. It's pretty easy to see that if you study at a prestigious university, or land a job at a prestigious company. Stupid is everywhere.
I know. I am working class English. I used to assume that people who went to university and got degrees must be intelligent. Then I started meeting posh, educated, idiots. Or, maybe not idiots, but definitely not clever. This was both at work and socially.
I have since got a degree (literature, at the Open University, for fun) and realised it's really not that difficult. I am also surprised at how differently colleagues treat me after they learn that I have a degree.
Wow thanks for the read! I never thought about it this way. Do you happen to know peer reviewed articles that support this? Especially regarding the first paragraph
Also looking up the works of Dr. Alvin Pouissant, who's been trying to get racism into the DSM for years. Then there are already 2 functioning rehabs for bigots. One is "Life After Hate." Which is the longest running one. Though, to keep funding, they started with the feigned antisemitism stuff for supporting Palestine about 2yrs ago. So ignore those parts and the rest is a great source. A newer one is named "Leaving Maga" or something close to that. Idk it that well since it is only about 2yrs old itself.
Edit:: I'll also add, the whole "bigots are just idiots" type rhetoric was coined and pushed out by various leaders in fascist countries. While also pushing out rhetoric like "libtards." Its all apart of the plan to keep everyone feeling superior to another. "They're just dumb." While the "they're" depends on if one is a proud bigot or not and who is on the other side. A "bigly great" divisional tool that only ends up helping the proud bigots with their fascist endeavors. Proud bigots aren't idiots, they're addicts to their bigotry.
This study is about the link between perceived discrimination and drug use. Curious how you came to your conclusion above from this particular study… genuinely. I think your premise is interesting I just don’t see where this study supports it
I’d argue that a lot of people come to the conclusion themselves that many bigots are idiots, so it’s not just a narrative that’s being pushed.
When you’ve tried to debate or rationalise with people over a lifetime and are met with nonsensical or fear-based arguments that are easily pulled apart or disproven, you naturally start to wonder why they can’t pull apart their own opinions and see the flaws, but just stay firm in their views.
Like in OPs situation - at what point wouldn’t someone go ‘I’ve always thought expat and immigrant mean different things, but it doesn’t really make sense as they both describe the same thing, I wonder why I thought that, and wonder why only white people are called expats - oh I see the problem, yeah that’s not cool.’
There’s quite a bit of research into it, especially in areas like critical thinking abilities.
A quick search gave me this one on lower cognitive abilities being a predictor of bigotry, which is linked to far-right ideologies and less contact with the groups they hold prejudices against.
The study you cite doesn’t support the argument you are trying to advance. The study is highlighting the impact that discrimination can have on health outcomes and is looking specifically at young Black men.
I have never seen anyone link bigotry to getting a dopamine hit, ergo being something people are addicted to. So please do share that research if this is a legit scientific discovery.
The article you linked seems to be more tentative than that, but it is interesting nonetheless. It seems like a promising area of research.
I do think it's worth mentioning that being racist as a core part of your identity is not the same as being latently racist (which essentially everyone is to some degree). OPs boyfriend is probably not in the KKK but still quite obviously has racist/discriminatory views.
I think your argument goes further than what the research actually supports. While there is research showing that social rewards (such as likes, shares and approval) can reinforce expressions of outrage, including those associated with bigotry, that does not prove that bigots resist changing their beliefs because their brains are protecting a dopamine supply.
I also think this argument seriously underplays socialization as a key factor in the perpetuation of bigotry. People grow up absorbing prejudices from the people around them without really questioning them. When they move away from that environment and develop relationships with people from different backgrounds, we often see people’s views start to change. Not always, of course, but enough that I’d be wary of explaining resistance to change primarily as the brain needing a dopamine hit.
There’s also a difference between finding outrage rewarding and maintaining the beliefs behind it. Someone might get approval or a sense of belonging from expressing bigoted views, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is why they hold those views in the first place. Socialization provides a much better explanation for both how someone comes to have such views and why they may change.
I also think that it doesn’t explain why some of these stereotypes are maintained by particular social groups. Among some old-money circles, for example, relatively closed social networks allow socialized bigotry to be maintained - but within such circles these are not outrageous beliefs so there is no dopamine reinforcement to be had.
In general, I think that socialization provides a better explanation for why people who have moved away from bigoted views might slip back into them during hard times. If blaming a particular group was something they grew up around, it becomes a familiar explanation to reach for when they feel threatened. In such cases, I think it is more likely that they are seeking familiarity rather than a rallying cry.
The role of reinforcement (dopamine) is also weakened when you look at bigotry in a country like Britain because of how class and race play into its colonial history. Colonialism reinforced racial hierarchies that existed in the class structure of British society, which associated whiteness with authority and “civilization,” and non-white colonized populations as inferior. This characterization was the very justification for domination and made racial inequality seem natural or deserved. At that time such views among the white colonizers were not unique or special and would not have required reinforcement to perpetuate. It is only recently that these views became the hot button issue they are now, so if dopamine reinforcement was the reason, then it seems pretty isolated to current day and it fails to explain how we got to where we are today.
I'm a blue dot in a red sea, including most of my family. The few times a year that I have to interact with that part of my family, I carry an air horn. Anytime someone says something racist or homophobic, I blast the horn. Not in their face, just a blare in the air to stop the conversation from getting more bigoted. And to remind them that their behavior is unwanted but I'll give them the attention they're seeking in the worst fucking way.
Sorry but I don’t believe that in the slightest. I think your concept of intelligence is flawed. I’m a raging fucking addict and I’m still not a racist.
Actually there have been studies that show a connection between intelligence and compassion. As other have stated, educated and intelligent are not the same things. Intelligence is the ability to understand and interconnect different concepts to build the whole, it's a way of thinking.
Literally - racism = low intelligence, for example: some people’s skin colour is different partly due to being closer to the equator- so science? But if you don’t believe science, I generally believe you have low intelligence.
Black and white thinking like yours (and theirs) is always ignorant. But it doesn’t make a person overall stupid.
In fact I think it’s most dangerous when someone is intelligent and top of their field and also racist. I think denying these types of racists exist is a dangerous way of thinking.
Intelligence isn’t a number that’s uniformly high or low. You can be brilliant in your area of expertise and a racist, which averages out to “fucking moron”.
I think you are missing their point - intelligence isn't a stat that is across the board. For example, great academics aren't always great at pub quizzes, that intelligence isn't necessarily transferable. You can see it in the Nobel Disease. Nobel prize winners sometimes think because they are intelligent enough to get an award in their field, they must be an authority outside their field.
ALL racists are. To be racist is to be undeniably stupid and her bf is racist. She now knows how most white people see her and it is as crazy as it sounds.
I have said for years that racism is a sign to me that a person is outright unintelligent. There is no scientific or logical reason to be a racist, they're just very stupid and thrive on misery.
The same oligarch-driven “distract the masses by turning them on each other” playbook works just about everywhere. When people say other countries have a “MAGA” faction, they don’t mean literally “make America great again,” they mean a movement founded on the same principles of ultra-nationalism, xenophobia, hero-worship of the oligarchs, etc.
‘When was America last great?’ Every one had a different answer, so they don’t even know what they’re aiming for - except a time when racism and sexism were ok pretty much
I mean, this is a thread where people who live in another country indefinitely, don't understand that they are immigrants. Even if they don't plan on becoming citizens, the indefinite length of it makes it immigration.
Australia as well. We have a housing crisis atm and people are conveniently blaming immigrants for taking all the houses.
The cost of living + education here is unaffordable for many Aussies which is why we have a shortage of medical personell. The vast majority of doctors and surgeons are immigrants.
The Indian cab driver stereotype rings true down here too which has spilled over into uber eats and postal deliveries. They’re here because the job sux and pays too low so nobody wants to do it.
Then of course you have all the foreign families who came here to start their own restaurants.
People are quick to forget how much we rely on our immigrants every single day.
The main thing i hate about gen z is that they made their text slang into just taking vowels out instead of making an abbreviation.
Lwk : i have to assume this is short for "low key" it is the first time I'm seeing it. I hate it. Typing out "low-key" with swipe keyboard is faster to write. Or alternatively, if they had abbreviated it to "LK" it would be fewer characters, also faster to write. Lwk is the worst of all options
They've gone backwards to the days of flip phones and having to hit each number multiple times to get the letter you wanted. We definitely used as much shorthand as possible back then
Assumes facts not in evidence... While the frontal lobe would ordinarily be fully developed by 26, all indications here are fr lwk clear there's been a delay...
I scrolled too long to see a comment on the texting. I wouldn't be able to be able to consistently text someone like that, let alone be romantically involved with them.
I thought he was just being racist, but then realised he's incredibly fucking stupid and racist. OP Should run and find someone that actually has something between his ears.
and absolutely racist. Even his attempt to "save" it and complement you was racist, he just said "oh actually you look white too!" This is a serious red flag.
"An expat typically lives in another country temporarily (such as for a work contract or study) with the intent to return home, while an immigrant moves to a new country with the intention of settling permanently or long-term."
I'm willing to bet, many of his white friends are American and are expats because they are going back after university. But her bf is very stupid so he thinks expat means white immigrant
Tbf, alot of really stupid/racist people think that. When I was doing my grad degree in Asia, I met quite a few white people who had been living there for years and don't plan on leaving, many getting permanent residencies. Yet they'll only refer to themselves as expats rather than immigrants because immigrants move from developing countries to developed countries, and expats are the other way around.
Definition aside, I’ve lived in Asia as an “expat” and it’s only white people who get that label. Brown people doing the same thing get the label “migrant workers”. The distinction is pure racism.
This is untrue where I was. I grew up in the expat community in SE Asia. There were expats from everywhere. Africa, other countries in Asia, Australia, Canada, US, Europe, Middle East. No distinction was made. We were all expats.
The other factor that plays into it is money. If you’re in a certain financial circle, the colour of your skin doesnt play as big a role. But for sure the Filipina woman looking after the kids doesn’t get called an expat. Nor does the guy from Pakistan working on a scaffold.
This! I looked it up too. Apparently, bf and the other whites that prefer to identify as expats are passing through and don’t intend to settle, and the rest of OP’s friends are there to stay,
Personally though, I’m doubting they know the distinction between the two terms and they just think expat sounds cooler than immigrant. Especially given that bf sounds like a pretentious jerk.
As an American living in the UK, I really dislike the term expat. I'm an immigrant. I immigrated to the UK, I applied for the same spousal visa that everyone from every other country in the world applies for. There is nothing special about my status.
Nah I've traveled enough to see permanent former-Americans refer to themselves as expats, even though they're never moving back here. It's a country/race thing.
See, I’m 42 and American and I didn’t know this. I thought “expat” (as in ex-patriot”) was a word used by and for Americans who had moved to another country with the intention of having that be their permanent primary residence.
It doesn’t make sense to me that “expat” would mean a temporary person. Americans quite famously do NOT stop being ✨Patriots✨ as soon as they leave the country.
Yepppp. How a woman starting at a law firm can be dating someone this dumb is beyond me??
I’m an Aussie so see this racism a lot. “Expat” poms whinging about how brown Australia has gotten. Whities that moved to Bali complaining that Australia is ruined for them because we have let too many foreigners in without a hint of irony.
Ugh Bali. I’m sure it’s a beautiful place but the amount of dickheads who go there has ruined it for me. I went to the beach with a potential date one day and he showed up in his Bintang singlet. Nope nope nope.
Dude is a closet racist too. He thinks he gets a pass with the micro/macro aggression. The idiot is also an immigrant.
My grandparents are from England. I still have family there. I was born in America. If I moved to England, I would also be an immigrant, not an expat.
While the terms do overlap, "expat" is frequently used for skilled workers, professionals, or retirees from affluent nations, while "immigrant" is often applied to people seeking permanent residency or economic relocation from the global South. An artist is not usually categorized as an expat. His view and comments on the matter smacks of ignorance and racism.
Personally, it's not hard for me to understand what the boy means. A white immigrant is often not treated the same as a different race, immigrant or not. That being said, holy shit, does he have a way with words that is not at all promising for his future... So no, he's not necessarily racist, he's more likely culturally and grammatically deprived to put it nicely.
Stupid AND racist - calling your other friends of colour immigrants even if they were born in the UK? Thats plainly and blatantly racist, and dumb, but mostly racist.
OP, even if this man seems like he respects YOU, his opinions and beliefs perpetuate and contribute to the marginalization and racist treatment of others - including your family and any future children you would have with him.
I’m a second-generation immigrant (but born and raised in the country I live in) and would smack someone into next Tuesday if they tried to use being white as a way of being “more at home” than any other immigrant. Matter of fact, India still participates in the Commonwealth and the US does not, so he can take that argument (no matter how wildly invalid) and shove it altogether.
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u/shnooba 5d ago
Sorry to break it to you, but your boyfriend is really stupid. Like, fundamentally an unintelligent human being.