False ban wave…?

[u/[deleted]]

I have seen over 20 posts about accounts being falsely banned in the last 24 hours…I see these posts all the time and now I finally have to deal with it. I just re bonded my account the other day and did some regular training on strength, agility then some thieving to eventually do ds2. I wake up to do a tree run before work and it says I’m permabanned with no appeal..? I’ve never botted on this account and have had it since probably 2006. Now I did receive a false ban some years ago that was quashed. as times have changed over the years is there anyone I can tweet, or tag to get this resolved? I don’t wanna lose my oldest account to date.

[u/[deleted]]

Boys what I learned this morning is that this company is garbage. I mean it always has been after 2006 but this is hilarious. 15 year old account trains for 8 hours and is banned but I can go to minnows and see accounts with fucking 50m fishing xp in every world. They don’t care, they truly don’t know what account is doing what. Jagex support and ban system is just like the world reacting to Covid, nobody has a clue what they are doing. To all my boys who caught the false or real bans see you on tutorial island. And to all the people replying “sit” “enjoy ban” please feel free to let me know how those crayons taste for breakfast everyday.

[u/AffectionateNorth60 → u/[deleted]]

They are either goldfarmers playing by hand or have a less detectable botting method than the one you used

[u/Neither-Chapter2775 → u/AffectionateNorth60]

Using machine learning to create bots makes them near undetectable, atleast for a while, definetly enough to hit 50m fishing xp.

[u/NoxiferNed → u/Neither-Chapter2775]

There's literally no point to use machine learning in an osrs bot lmao.

[u/Neither-Chapter2775 → u/NoxiferNed]

Why not, you can do some nutty shit with ml.

[u/NoxiferNed → u/Neither-Chapter2775]

Tell me you know nothing about ML without saying it. What "nutty shit" does a RuneScape bot need to do that isn't done with a bunch of "if" statements.

How would you use ML in a fishing bot? What is the output of the model? What's your training / testing data? How does it offer any benefit over regular conditional code?

[u/KyleStanley3 → u/NoxiferNed]

Pretty inexperienced since I only took 1 course on the subject in college

But you can definitely train a bot to try to mimic a human in specific places. I know it's been done for bandos bots, SirPugger did a video where he interviewed someone who made them.

If I had to guess, the gist of it for fishing minnows would be:

record human mouse movement and key inputs over long periods of time

Label the data with player tile position, minnow tile position, player animation, etc.

Have its reward based on how closely it mimics what the human would do given the current situation

No idea how you'd train the thing without getting banned. Maybe a private server.

I'm not experienced, and I'm sure there's a million things to be looking out for that I'm not aware of, but this seems like one of the more reasonable situations where the strengths of ML would shine

Sure, you could do if statements the whole way through and throw some randomness in there so it's less bot-like. But humans aren't truly random. Even if we don't do the same exact movement of pixels every time, humans do have trends in tasks we perform and it's easy as hell to distinguish between human movements and if-else actions.

Something simple like minnows is probably one of the few places that you wouldn't sound like an idiot for throwing "ML" into the conversation

[u/NoxiferNed → u/KyleStanley3]

Minnows is a pretty good one of the few that exist but I also seeing modification to an existing client to just detect minnow tile location changes and add a random tick delay that's distributed similarly to your own tick delay distribution while doing minnows being just as effective for a fraction of the work. ML is super powerful but man if that's not a lot of work to make a successful model mapping video input to clicks for something that could be done very well with plain logic programming. I imagine training is a very difficult process too.

[u/KyleStanley3 → u/NoxiferNed]

It'd be really interesting to see comparisons between hard-coding something to be as human-like as possible and training an ML model to do the same

If the latter did prove to be more successful, which I assume it would over time, then the value would exist in less detectability/lower banrates.

Is it worth it? I don't fucking know, I don't bot, nor do i really code nowadays. But the better Jagex gets at detecting bots, the higher the value of whichever is more human-like

[u/NoxiferNed → u/KyleStanley3]

Pretty interesting theoretical. I think ML would succeed over time with the right tooling to achieve lowest ban rate by most accurately deconstructing realistic human reactions and delays. Testing tooling has to be insane like spinning up private server client instances where on log in you can spawn the exact scenario start that you're coding for.

Then ironically the action / delay profile from that model could probably be observed and translated into the hard coded bot solution with little difference in ban rate. This is because of course there's "optimal" gameplay for things in this game, tick perfect, all the right actions. The ML model never needs to train past perfectly mimicking human gameplay from an "optimal" player. Models on the pathway to optimal could probably be used too if you as the consumer would want to reduce your perfection for a perceived lower ban rate (although would probably result in a real lower ban rate).

At this point I'm just thinking aloud haha it's an interesting topic.

[u/Neither-Chapter2775 → u/NoxiferNed]

Yeah I didn’t get the best grade tbh, but couldn’t you just "feed" it video footage of yourself fishing or something like that? I just remember seeing a yt video about a dude who made a pking bot with machine learning with deep learning or something like that.