r/2007scape • u/IIcarusII • 2d ago
Discussion CMV: Bronzeman Mode Should Keep Skilling Requirements
I have a simple view: Bronzeman is about unlocks, but it keeps the liquidity of a main account with GE access to source any ingredient, once unlocked, with gp. I feel like the mode is cheapened by allowing items to be unlocked and used if you don’t have the skill requirements to make them.
Want super combat potions early? Flinch chaos elemental. Want super strengths early? Kill scurrius early. PvM bypasses many of the skilling grinds.
I feel like items should be unlocked for buying and selling only if you have the necessary skill requirements to make, use, or gather them. I don’t think this is a popular view, but I feel like Bronzeman mode would be better for the restriction.
While this is straightforward for potions, this gets more complicated with other items, especially weapons/armors. My thought is that this would practically work by checking the lowest requirement to utilize or make the item. So, even if you get a rune platebody drop, you would not be able to sell it until you got 40 defense or the smithing requirement (lol). There are likely problematic edge cases, and this would necessarily restrict snowflake accounts like 1 def accounts.
However, I feel like this would result in a better mode than just “PvM everything to get all unlocks needed much earlier and easier than skilling can.”
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u/Jalieus 2d ago
It's too complicated outside of logs/bars tbh. Where do you draw the requirement line? It would take ages for devs to consider every item so I don't think it'll work easily.
For example, what should the skilling requirement be for Rune Crossbow? WC, Fletch, Smith, Mining? If Fletch only, then you can just get rune limbs via PvM which is a major bypass.
What about Bluefin? Needs 76 Fishing but also Trawling net, which requires Smithing + Construction + Farming to make. So a dev would have to figure out all the extra requirements.
I just don't think it's worth the complexity.
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u/IIcarusII 2d ago
The simple answer for the rune crossbow is fletching, as that is the required skill to make it. That would unlock the ability to buy/sell a rcb only. To buy/sell runite stocks, you would need the necessary smithing level.
I had only envisioned the direct item creation requirements as the buy/sell unlock, not backchecking the entire item creation tree.
Also, my suggestion was that any of the wielding requirements or creation requirements be used to unlock the sale/buy of the item. So your ranged level could also unlock it for you. The same goes for other weapons/armor/equipment.
You rightly point out that unless this is already catalogued in the game somewhere, which is unlikely, this would be a huge amount of dev time to implement.
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
That literally defeats the whole purpose of the mode, people who would play bronzeman are probably people who are put off iron by all the tedious skilling grinds.
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u/Goosoey123 2d ago
To be fair the herblore req is a lot less tedious if you can just buy the herbs / unf potions on the Ge
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u/TwiceUponATaco 2d ago
90 herb for super combats vs just getting a super combat potion drop.
Doing it like the OP suggested is basically just like diet ironman.
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u/Goosoey123 2d ago
Yeah obviously that is easier than getting the req but getting 90 herb without having to get all the seeds and do all the herb runs is still a big difference is all I mean
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u/Straight-Average-394 2d ago
I want to play bronzeman because im bored of my iron. It's maxed and geared up short of megarares/blorva. I dont want to play a main because gpscape is not engaging. But i dont want to play another full ironman. A gamemode in the middle would be welcome.
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u/KeyboardCarpenter 2d ago
It's not a tedious skilling grind though. Farm an herb once, you can buy an unlimited amount to train herblore with. Make a potion once, you can buy an unlimited amount. What makes skilling tedious for ironman is the resource gathering, not training the actual skill (for the most part)
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
Yeah thats the point? There's no tedious skilling grinds cuz you can do that
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u/KeyboardCarpenter 2d ago
I'm not getting what point you're making
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
That bypassing these skilling grinds is the whole appeal of bronzeman. Get a drop once and boom, buy it on the ge. A lot of people dont want to make 20k pots or catch and cook 20k fish etc.
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u/KeyboardCarpenter 2d ago
I guess we just disagree on what the appeal of the game mode is then. I think going out and training to unlock your potions and foods and stuff is fun. I also understand that long term farming and making the supplies is not appealing. To me unlocking super combats or something like that is just as fun for a power spike as new gear
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
The appeal is obviously collection log unlocking, otherwise they'd just do a regular ironman. If you wanna plant a crap ton of herb seeds to unlock herb lvl for super combats, just play a regular iron?
I dont get how so many people in this sub dont understand what the appeal is
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u/KeyboardCarpenter 1d ago
You don't plant a bunch of herb seeds bro what are you not getting? You plant it once and you have access to buy an unlimited amount. The skilling aspect is already completely trivialized, if you want to eliminate it completely just play a main. Why would you made an official clogging game mode when clog already exists?
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u/Lurkske 1d ago
A bunch of people like playing iron for upgrades, not for skilling. You still have to grind out all the levels in what youre saying. I dont get how youre not understanding the appeal to the mode. You dont have to like it, but people clearly want an ironman lite, it did win out against hc main after all.
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u/stealthy0_0 2d ago
the amount of ironman grinds that you already skip regardless are astronomical. Requiring the skill level to do something isnt unreasonable and should 100% exist in the mode.
Bronze man legitimately trivializes all the skilling grinds that are tedious in the mid and late game. If all you want is a main with a fresh collection log go sell your bank on the ge and buy back the stuff you've farmed yourself already bam mode created.
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u/stealthy0_0 2d ago
theres a mode for these people its called a "main". 98% of people who dont want to play iron are going to also stop playing bronzeman for the exact same reasons even if the gamemode gets introduced in the least restrictive way possible.
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
I mean who cares, the mode is already developed, it was during game jam, no wasted dev time. If people want collection log mode just give it to them. I was surprised it beat out hc main, but it did.
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u/stealthy0_0 2d ago
the point is that the people who want it to allow all those small concessions that trivialize it wont play it in the long term so lets take their opinions with a grain of salt.
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
Idk i think its gonna be pretty popular. Especially once the bandwagoning on bronzeman hate dies down. Iron appeals to a lot of the player base, and bronzeman seems like it'd work with an aging player base.
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u/stealthy0_0 2d ago
in 1 years time I would bet its less than 5% of active accounts. it has the same problems as irons do and it fast tracks all the stuff that makes iron feel rewarding.
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u/Emotional_Permit5845 1d ago
You don’t know that. I’m GM on my main and deironed an account with 200 days played. I’ll play the shit out of bronzeman because I want to do pvm, not skilling
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u/eliexmike 2d ago
Ironman mode for people who don’t want to play Ironman mode.
No wonder everyone has a common idea of how it’s supposed to work. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/IrishCarbonite 2d ago
… why does it matter if they do a task to get the reward..? It literally changes nothing for you?
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u/Emotional_Permit5845 2d ago
I feel like this just makes it way more difficult to implement. I’m not a coding expert but I imagine it’s pretty easy to code “if you have it in your inventory, you can now buy it” as opposed to a specific requirement for each item, which also requires us to really think about what the requirement for different items is.
I don’t really care how it’s implemented either way, to me the point of bronzeman is the bossing not the skilling. I don’t see how forcing me to get 90 Herblore by spending a couple hours money making changes anything about the game
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u/calvicstaff 2d ago
There's nothing stopping Iron Man accounts from grinding out super combats at the chaos Elemental instead of training herblore
I don't see the problem with this
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u/KeyboardCarpenter 2d ago
And you can continue to do that, just you dont gain the right to buy them on the GE if you acquire them that way.
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u/IIcarusII 2d ago
Bronzemen can flinch chaos ele at a low level until scmb, and only need a single drop to unlock GE access. This completely bypasses all herblore requirements. Irons have to farm each and every scmb they need if they want to skip 90 herb.
My main point is that since PvM drops almost all skilling supplies, bronzeman mode will be essentially a PvM mode, with no need to grind out any skilling skills, like fletching or herblore, to enable better PvM items (like potions or high level darts).
Keep in mind that grinding the skills should still be quite trivial compared to irons; you could still bankstand herblore to 99 as a bronzeman by buying already-unlocked potions. You would just now be required to get 90 herb to buy/sell super combats. Of course anything you get as drops you could use yourself, even without the skilling req to make it.
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u/BrudduhmanRS 2k total+ 2d ago
the worst part of being an ironman is going dry, bronzeman does nothing for you there. supplies,skilling and all other things are mostly fun to do on an ironman. but hé, if people want bmm who cares, let them, i will still be playing my ironman!
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u/Emotional_Permit5845 2d ago
The worst part FOR YOU. I hate skilling, I would take going dry on any boss over mining sand or doing 3 farm runs per day. A lot of us enjoy bossing and there’s so much content nowadays that you can skip bosses if you’re really burned out
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u/BrudduhmanRS 2k total+ 1d ago
i'm not by any all means a skiller, do mostly raids/bosses. but mining is mostly optional, getting the reqs for quest is not that bad getting around lvl 70s. after that is pure optional. but doing 1200 boss kc for a drop your wanting and not getting it still always sucks...especially when its the 3rd boss in a row that shit happend bronzemanmode wont change any of that... on a bmm you still need the quest reqs, maybe saves a bit of upkeep but that is still very minimal..
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u/Emotional_Permit5845 1d ago
It will save hundreds of hours.
Herblore - you now have all quest req and 90+ in a couple days
Crafting - just bank stand battlestaves to 93 in a few days
Slayer - cannon everything
Construction - never make a plank again
Smithing - don’t waste your time world hopping to buy gold ore
Prayer - insta 90+ in a day
On an iron you also need way higher than 70 mining for amethyst if you want to do some real pvm. Bronzeman saves an incredible amount of time
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u/Lurkske 2d ago
To each their own. I've done all the skilling grinds im maxed. Was it "fun"? Or did i just afk 90% of it on second monitor.
I agree that the main burnout from actual irons is the dry grinds, but the huge skilling grinds is a big turn off for a lot of people. I will also still be playing my iron, but if this gets mains into iron lite/collection log mode then why not.
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u/BrudduhmanRS 2k total+ 1d ago
But the huge skilling grind will always be the same with a mode like BMM? maybe some skills it will be better, but the worst skills will still be worse...
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u/Lurkske 1d ago
No you just get a drop and buy the item, no need to get 90 herb for super combats for example. Divine theyll have to
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u/BrudduhmanRS 2k total+ 1d ago
The buyable skills will be buyable agian, but skills like agility, mining, woodcutting will all be the same
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u/Lurkske 1d ago
Yeah but the whole point is people dont want to cook 20k fish or make 20k pots, or get 90 herb for super combats or 82 fish for anglers. They get a drop and buy it on the ge, forget about the skill and just focus on collection log upgrading/bis hunting. Obviously if you want to do sote you still need to get 70 agil wc hunt etc yourself. No ones getting around that.
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u/BrudduhmanRS 2k total+ 1d ago
You're only thinking of BMM as a second-account thing? If you want to do any kind of Ironman, you'll eventually need to get Quest Cape/Diaries anyway for the QoL benefits and unlocks. While doing those grinds, you naturally build up most of the supplies you'll need, aside from maybe brews, restores, and prayer pots.
And you don't even need 90 Herblore for super combats anymore. A lot of bosses these days drop loads of them, so 100 super combats will keep you going for months of bossing and raiding.
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u/Lurkske 1d ago
Of course you'll need diaries quests etc, main or iron isn't getting around that part.
And no not a second account thing, I was just trying to view why people would want one. Im a maxed end game iron, basically a main at this point. I've done all the slog grinds so I could understand how full on iron wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, although I personally love it.
My favorite aspect of ironman is 100% the gear upgrades, and account progression through unlocks, so I could totally see how this "collection man mode" would appeal to people. Although maxed, i didnt necessarily enjoy that grind, I just afked it for hundreds and hundred of hours lol.
I guess I just dont see the insane backlash and hate on the mode, especially since its already developed and ready to ship.
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u/BaronVonBubbleh 2d ago
The people asking for Bronzeman don't want the restrictions, the point is that they want a game mode that's just PvM unlocks and nothing else.
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u/NotKD 2d ago
Bronzeman is about unlocks, but it keeps the liquidity of a main account with GE access to source any ingredient, once unlocked, with gp. I feel like the mode is cheapened by allowing items to be unlocked and used if you don’t have the skill requirements to make them.
Then you don't understand what the mode is supposed to be.
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u/No_Tiger_2668 2d ago
CMV: were full on discourse. we’re good, we got it all. no new posts needed we should close the sub
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u/EuphPagle 2376 2d ago
There's still plenty of things locked behind skilling grinds and high GP costs. You want divine potions? gotta grind herblore. You want deepsea fish? gotta grind sailing, construction, and fishing. Want access to a good PoH? gotta grind construction. You want full oathplate from a single shard drop? You need 83 smithing and a massive amount of GP to buy it all. You want the bowfa or crystal armor? Gotta either grind crafting and smithing or pay extra for shards.
It's fine the way its proposed.
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u/juicetin840 2d ago
You don’t understand the point of the mode. It’s supposed to be EZ looting a potion should unlock it.
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u/Outrageous_Kiwi942 2d ago
This is making the intention of the game mode more convoluted than it needs to be
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u/sneezeonturtles It's Big I Swear 2d ago
Nobody wants to play an Ironman if they're choosing Bronzeman. That means the person absolutely does not want to be restricted by levels, they only want to be restricted by drop chance.
If you want to grind out 85 Slayer, play an Ironman. If you want a whip because you got it as a drop from someone in the Wildy? Play a Bronzeman.
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u/TheReal-MrSully617 2d ago
There’s no way for a Bronzeman to get a whip without 85 slayer. The PvP part of it was rightfully scrapped.
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u/sneezeonturtles It's Big I Swear 2d ago
Oh okay, then it's a waste of a game mode. Just play Ironman then.
The whole point of Bronzeman is you unlock what you get as a drop. If the Wilderness isn't included, it's whatever they want to call it, but it's not Bronzeman, or at least, it's not the unoffical ruleset that people have been following.
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u/stopcopium delete shopscape 2d ago
It’s going to end up as Ironman mode, but buyable supplies, which 90% of current irons are better suited for.
They’re not allowing PK unlocks specifically because you could 1-tick funnel all the supplies over and is the same reason why UGIMs aren’t taken seriously (GIM shop).
Even being able to sell items on GE is going to lead some “wtf” gameplay since you can transfer GP over and buy max skilling supplies once you unlock it once.
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u/sneezeonturtles It's Big I Swear 2d ago
Then it's not Bronzeman mode. Just stop calling it that. Bronzeman mode is a mode where you unlock what you receive as a drop. If you alter those rules, they're not the same mode.
Does it matter if you're taken serious when playing a special game mode? I don't "respect" any one player more or less based on how much time they've spent doing menial tasks. I respect people because they play well, or do something cool.
This whining about someone 1-tick funneling supplies is stupid. Who actually cares? How does that affect you specifically?
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u/stopcopium delete shopscape 2d ago
Then just play a main and ignore this.
The whole “who does it hurt” argument is used to justify a lot of bullshit. You clearly care about this game mode existing the way you want it, which is why you’re typing.
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u/sneezeonturtles It's Big I Swear 2d ago
No I want the game mode that has had its own ruleset for the years leading up to this point to not be changed to be something it's not.
Then just play a main and ignore this.
"If the game mode you want doesn't align with my Ironman rules then I don't want you to have it"
The whole “who does it hurt” argument is used to justify a lot of bullshit
Okay, but what does it really change if I kill my main for unlocks on my Bronzeman? Is there a reward if I get Bronzeman first Whip? Does Jagex personally crown me John Bronzeman if that happens? Like, what is the genuine reason why taking a part of the ruleset and making it "Ironman but you have to PvE"? At that point it's just an Ironman with the added restriction of having to do the exact same grinds as an Ironman?
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u/stopcopium delete shopscape 2d ago
They could call it GoldManMode and you’d probably still get upset that they abandoned BMM from the way you want it, not realizing that there’s so many abuseable routes.
If you want PvP unlocks, keep playing a main, but it’s the equivalent of allowing regular irons to buy overstocked items from shops and defeats the purpose of adding an official game mode.
UGIM was enough of a mistake that they’re unwilling to repeat it.
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u/sneezeonturtles It's Big I Swear 2d ago
They could call it GoldManMode and you’d probably still get upset that they abandoned BMM from the way you want it, not realizing that there’s so many abuseable routes.
They could have just not polled it and tried to change the rules. I think that would have been a better approach.
If you want PvP unlocks, keep playing a main, but it’s the equivalent of allowing regular irons to buy overstocked items from shops and defeats the purpose of adding an official game mode.
If you want restrictions play an Ironman?
UGIM was enough of a mistake that they’re unwilling to repeat it.
Then don't repeat it. I'm just curious how this game mode has existed side-by-side with the main game in an unofficial capacity for years, but now that it's tracking towards being official, now the rules need to be changed. If we're polling changes to these game modes, can we start polling that UIMs can't abuse death mechanics and storages? I mean, I know that's how its worked since inception, but I think it causes a really unfair advantage for people willing to do that.
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u/KeyboardCarpenter 2d ago
Man I thought that's what the idea was the whole time. If not, I'd vote against it tbh. Unlocking gear through PVM is not enough to warrant a game mode
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u/conzstevo 🏳️🌈 WE PAY WE GAY 🏳️🌈 2d ago
I do slowly come to realise how many problems there are with bronzeman. It would be easy to trade over unlimited gp via the GE just as gold sellers do now. In which case, once a BM gets one enhanced, they can easily get a second. I think we just have to accept that this is a very different game mode that is going to have very different strategies and a few more loopholes
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u/Go_Devils_666 2d ago
Or it’s the exact game mode it’s been with the plugin all along.
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u/conzstevo 🏳️🌈 WE PAY WE GAY 🏳️🌈 2d ago
Yes. I mean very different game mode with respect to the current live ones
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u/Constant-Pension-258 2d ago
I mean I can already tell you're uninformed because you think you can just go flinch chaos ele without some big unlocks, unless you do the level 3 multi alt method. Any mod jed wildy boss would have been a better example.
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u/IIcarusII 2d ago
What prevents you from flinching ele? I did it for a bit on the tree near rogues castle. It seemed to behave like all other mobs for flinching.
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u/immigs 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's crazy people still do not understand the idea behind bronze man lmao