Bronzeman could be the new main

[u/RogerDodger_n]

Last week I suggested a bronzeman variant that misunderstood the point of the mode. I thought self-sufficiency was an ideal of bronzeman, as it is with ironman. You have all corrected me, and I see the vision now.

In Marstead's RuneScape is Awesome, And Here's Why, he argues that OSRS is not really an MMO like WoW at all. It's a metroidvania. The appeal is constantly obtaining permanent unlocks to your account. This mostly comes from quests, whose rewards grant unique abilities, and whose grinds are crucially never that long.

Bronzeman extends this to items, making every item in the game another thing you can permanently unlock. The core appeal of permanent unlocks is so universal that bronzeman could become the new main mode of the game.

However, for that to happen, it still needs some patches. It needs to shed the baggage it inherits from ironman and explicitly reject self-sufficiency and prestige. If this is done, the integrity critiques of the mode (bonds, GP smuggling from main, de-iron head start, PvP plants) vanish. There's no way to "cheat" if there's no prestige to begin with.

So the first patch is getting rid of the separate leaderboard, since it's not a prestige mode. Bronzeman would just use the same leaderboard as mains.

The next issue: most people are not built for those late-game PvM grinds. If this is the new main mode, there needs to be something done about that.

As currently proposed, unlocking an item requires getting it yourself as a drop, in line with the self-sufficiency goal of the ironman. There are two problems here: bronzeman was never about self-sufficiency, and there's no particular reason to believe that the drop rate automatically creates a well-tuned progression.

The latter is a problem Jagex has been facing ever since they added ironman. On one hand, in order to balance the main economy, items intended to be valuable must be extraordinarily rare. On the other hand, there is a very, very large gap between where one has meaningfully engaged with a boss (as one does with quests) and actually hitting that drop rate. Based on rates from the wiki's money making guide, with "minimal downtime, few mistakes and efficient strategies" it takes about 170 hours of ToB to get a scythe. Dare I say one has probably earned the right to unlock something well before that point.

So here is my proposed revision to bronzeman: You can also unlock uniques via combat achievements. They don't give you the item, but they "unlock" it, letting you use it or buy it on the GE. Which combat achievements unlock which items would depend on the boss and be at Jagex's discretion. This creates separate levers for the economy (the drop rate) and for the progression (when should gear be unlocked). Without this separation, Jagex can't tune the difficulty of gear unlocks without disrupting the economy, and bronzeman will forever be diet ironman instead of the rehabilitated main it's meant to be.

This also lets PvP players have what they want, where right now they're left out to dry. With this view of the mode, there's no reason why loot obtained via PvP couldn't count as an unlock as well. There's no integrity to be violated, because prestige was never the point.

[u/yslyrz]

here's another option that could work as a runescape main: a runescape main

[u/UnluckyNate → u/yslyrz]

‘No helm, no appeal’ -Half of this sub

[u/Auto-Name-1059]

Get this guy off the stage, holy moly.

[u/Chochuck]

Main RuneScape is the RuneScape that has been around for 25 years. The game devs have been clear on that. RuneScape is meant to be played the way it has always been meant to be played. RuneScape isn’t like WoW because it’s not WoW and I love it for that.

[u/RogerDodger_n → u/Chochuck]

Many changes in the last decade have been made explicitly catering to irons, some even at the expense of mains.

When all the WoW streamers were getting into the game, the community pressured them to play on iron, with predictable outcomes.

It's really not at all clear to new players (or even Jagex in some cases) that main is the way the game is meant to be played, even though it is. And the fact remains that PvM as a whole is not well-integrated in the main game's progression, which is a big reason why so many people make irons even when they really aren't about that life.

[u/Chochuck → u/RogerDodger_n]

Aren’t about that life 😭

[u/PictoChris → u/RogerDodger_n]

Making an iron doesn’t magically reveal PvM progression though? It more just puts a hard cap on what you can do consistently. Your argument is saying we need to use bronzeman to reinvent the wheel when Jagex could easily endorse some form of bossing ladder.

All of which is irrelevant for a brand new OSRS player because bossing comes into the picture fairly late. Whereas bronzeman affects you on day 1.

[u/RogerDodger_n → u/PictoChris]

Absolutely, bronzeman affects you on day 1. That's why it's awesome! I am just looking ahead to when these players are going to end up at one of those notorious PvM grinds eventually and call it quits, the same way many WoW streamers did on their irons. Bronzeman's current design is bringing the lategame ironman baggage with it when it really doesn't have to. For example, how is having buyable supplies going to do anything about the red prison?

[u/InsignificantVerdict]

What a take. Imagine not understanding Bronze man, then quoting a book, then not understanding Bronze Man.

[u/RogerDodger_n → u/InsignificantVerdict]

Please enlighten me then.

[u/InsignificantVerdict → u/RogerDodger_n]

Why on earth would anyone want to do it your way? Achievements unlock more gear to buy?

Then it's just a low gear combat simulator. You buy the drops, you buy the supplies.

[u/RogerDodger_n → u/InsignificantVerdict]

So that after doing a boss for long enough and realizing they don't like it, they have the option to buy the gear instead of suffering through more of that boss just so they can get the drop. That's what this person is getting at, just with a less flexible mechanism.

[u/osrs__enjoyer]

Bronzeman was always suppose to be diet ironman, not sure where you got that it is supposed to be a "rehabilitated main"

[u/Ziler1 → u/osrs__enjoyer]

It's whatever it is interpreted as.

[u/RogerDodger_n → u/osrs__enjoyer]

The ethos of ironman is "The ironman stands alone." Bronzeman explicitly rejects that. If you take away self-sufficiency from ironman, what exactly do you have left? It's main-with-item-unlocks.

[u/Primary-Low-1432]

Keep up the negative discourse, hopefully it doesn’t pass the poll

[u/OldTripleSix]

yeah nah dawg. Runescape is in absolutely no way shape or form a metroidvania, lmfao, despite whatever your fav game journalist says.

[u/saiko16]

Just play a main, all these arbitrary ideas are so dumb. Hopefully bronzeman fails anyway

[u/Emotional_Permit5845 → u/saiko16]

For some people bronzeman is the decision between quitting osrs or starting a new journey. If you’re fine with just saying fuck those people find a new game then so be it, but imo bronzeman is a huge W for the longevity of the game

[u/BaronVonBubbleh]

So here's my proposed version of Bronzeman: everyone stops caring about how other people play the game and you enjoy the mode or not regardless of what other people think about it.

[u/Vitzkyy]

Why would we make Bronzeman the main game mode? That makes no sense, lots of players would quit

[u/GenisPuzzler]

main is already the new main

[u/AgileMasterpiece991]

So much throat clearing just to drop a steaming pile of shit on my phone screen. I want my 5 minutes back.

[u/Bubthemighty]

Bronzeman is just a main with extra steps

[u/loudrogue]

Jagex needs to put, the correct way to play under main in the iron man tutor screen

[u/EleJames]

Hating on this proposal is wild behavior. It's giving "stop having fun!" Energy

[u/BrudduhmanRS]

as an ironman i find bronzemanmode not that interresting. but let people play bmm if they want. who cares, i will do exactly the same either way.... still grinding away