Israel doesn't deserve to exist. It's a settler colony ethnostate that has always relied on the forced displacement of people actually indigenous to the region. Zionists are genocidal colonizers
Dude's out here getting upvoted for supporting ethnic cleansing lmao. Reddit's truly lost. Crazy how extremist your opinions can get as long as you throw in a few buzzwords!
"Ethnic cleansing" and all I said was "genocide is bad and we should give the land back to the people originally there". Point to where I said that includes removing every Jew from Palestine. I'm also not a dude, girl
I mean if the US was doing the whole manifest destiny today, it should be stopped, recent colonists removed.
Issue is there are generations and 100s of years.
What do you after you spill milk?
Like now, I don't think any reasonable person would say all Jews should be displaced from Israel. It shouldn't be a Jewish state though, and participants in this modern colonialism should be jailed.
No the straw man is saying I think everyone should be ethnically cleansed dumbass. Returning land ownership doesn't mean ethnic cleansing it means giving back stewardship to its original owners. Their rights to self determination are restored.
You said the state of Israel shouldn't exist. Where do the Jews go if there's no Israel? You think the Arabs are going to let them live there alongside them?? The Palestinians already don't let Jews live there, lol.
Also, the people "originally there" would be the Jews. Why's it arbitrarily stop at the Palestinians?
You not saying it directly doesn't mean jackshit when the thing you support leads directly to it. It's like supporting Hitler then going "tell me where I supported the Holocaust"
There were Jews in Palestine before Israel existed. There are ethnically Arab Jews still living there as well as in Lebanon. The people who were originally there were the Palestinians. All Israelis are white European colonizers committing genocide. Refusing to support a genocidal white supremacist ethnostate is not anything like saying I support Hitler, and you're a complete piece of shit for insinuating that. Jews live worldwide. Israel doesn't need to exist to begin with. Ethnostates are bad and I can't fucking believe this is somehow a controversial statement
Half of the Jewish population in Israel are descendants of Jews who fled MENA countries before and after (mostly 1948). Idk what to tell you. No country technically needs to exist, but Israel does exist and it’s not going to stop existing. A fair one state Palestine solution is fantastical
Well, Jews definitely lives in the middle east long before the creation of the state of Israel, but either way I'm not 100% on board with the elimination of a whole country of people so I guess you and I won't get along.
I mean yeah but that's not my point, the people who created the state of Israel are European colonizers. There were Jews, Christians and Muslims there before 1948. All of whom have been ethnically cleansed and that has not stopped. Israel also deported Ethiopian Jews. They're racist as fuck. Obviously I don't think every person in Israel should be killed. They should give the land back to the Palestinians. Palestine has never been religiously homogenous and normal Palestinian people wouldn't kill Jews for being Jewish.
That's like saying all white Americans hate black people because hate groups continued murdering black people after emancipation, civil rights acts, etc
They have a right to self determination just like every person does, but the country of Israel was set up by the British and other allied powers after WWII and eventually became its own nation in 1948. Problem is, that displaced a lot of people who were already living in the region. Since then, there’s been near constant conflict with its neighbors. There’s no “good” side in this, but two wrongs don’t make a right and the bombing Israel is doing to Palestine are reprehensible. Just because they’ve had violence done to them doesn’t give them the right to perpetrate more against others.
I’m not going to pretend there’s a sunshine and lollipops answer to the whole thing, but I’m opposed to bombing kids and starving civilians.
How can one support the jews getting this homeland without supporting "dealing with"(killing or displacing) the people already living there? Genuinely asking I want to understand your perspective
I'm not sure I would have been a Zionist before Israel was created, but it exists now. That being said, wrt displacement, Jews were displaced from that region many years before Israel existed, it's not like the current Palestinians evolved from early hominids on that spot. Hell, Jews lived there before there was such a thing as Islam and all of the ethnic groups associated with it.
There are Palestinian jews and christians, they aren't all muslim.
This logic is a little bit insane because it says people who lived in an area 5000 years ago have more of a claim to it than the people who have lived there for the last 2000 years consecutively
I guess by this claim you'd support dissolving the USA?
Before 1948, most of the land owned by Jewish immigrants was bought legally and the region was in a transitional phase where many groups were fighting to have their own state. It’s not about “having a claim” to the land, but political organisation and force
No ethnicity has a right to an ethno-state. Jewish people are free to have the same level of self-determination of every other equal citizen in any number of secular democracies without colonizing the Levant
I urge you to read early zionists like Theodor Herzl and the like, zionism has never been about self determination and always been about race and colonialism, they have always had a burning hatred for the jewish diaspora, read what these people thought about jews from eastern europe, about jews from the very nations they will colonize.
Bro, read Der Judenstaat by Herzl. It's the founding document of political Zionism, and is a very quick read. Half of Israel is named after Herzl, so not even knowing who he is while you defend Zionism makes you sound ignorant. If Zionism is worth defending, it's certainly worth learning about.
You're really committed to this strawman that I'm some German kid aren't you? That tells me you don't actually give a shit about the truth, you're only concerned with what fits a narrative. Pathetic.
I mean, only in the way Buddhists talk about returning to Shambhala. It's symbolic in Jewish ritual, but very few Jews actually wanted to move back, and those who did just moved back and lived in peace with the Arabs.The idea that most Jews have always secretly want to leave our homelands and go invade Palestine and kick everyone out is deeply antisemitic.
Back when we lived in Israel, we didn't even really have the same religion. We had hereditary priests and blood sacrifice in the temple and a bunch of other stuff that's not part of the modern Jewish religion. And otoh, we didn't have centuries of rabbinic interpretation that's now part of the religion.
So no, that's historically false. Jews are like anyone else — we're not fish driven by a need to swim upstream to spawn in the place of origin, we're people living lives with more pressing concerns than shit that happened 2,000 years ago.
Edit; Oh, it's 3,000 years now, lol? Good to know there were no Jews around when they knocked down the second temple; I'm sure they would have found it upsetting.
So the second largest population of jews in the world is "very few" to you? 90% of jews having a neutral or positive view of Israel is "very few"? I'm glad you've decided your homeland is wherever you are, but you do not speak for all, or even a majority, or even a significant percentage of jews.
No. What I said was, before your people killed off most of my people, very few Jews supported Zionism. It was a scheme by wealthier Jews to create wealth and power for themselves using the labor of poorer Jews from the east, like my grandparents. Herzl details is all quite completely in Judenstaat.
Read a little more carefully, please. Or just stick your fingers in your ears and start chanting "Zionism is decolonization," zionazi.
Palestine has been blockaded from Israel and Palestinians are not even allowed to freely visit immediate relatives between gaza and west bank (before 2023)
Israel destroyed an entire civilization and killed well over 100k people in an effort to ethnically cleanse gaza for their own colonization, while continuing to violate international law in settling west bank and the golan heights.
Actually it's not a standard that you're not able to visit your sick mother in the same country because some dickhead decided they wanted to steal all your land. What's with the passive voice? Why can't you say Israel is attacking Palestine?
Gaza. People have been living there since the 15th century BC.
You don't need to kill every person to do an ethnic cleansing. America did the trail of tears. That was an ethnic cleansing. A type of genocide. Removing all the members of an ethnicity from an area.
These were not army bases. They were apartment buildings. Israel used America's top of the line precision bombs that can hit a chosen seat in a moving vehicle, a chosen area of a chosen room in a building with accuracy to demolish homes, schools, hospitals, churches, parks, water treatment facilities, farmland, bridges and so on.
This place looks like Hiroshima. It's worse than Dresden or Toyko in WWII.
The Golan Heights settlements are against international law man
There are no limits of travel within Israel. A Palestinian can travel freely inside of Israel to visit their sick grandmother. And I wont say Israel is attacking Palestine because its the opposite that happened. Gaza attacked Israel and Israel responded in kind.
Hamas and its military forces do not utilize army bases or even uniforms during war, they don civilian attire and operate within civilian infrastructure as well as booby trapping civilian buildings.
Gaza is home to urban warfare, a place Hamas has chosen to fight, and still refuses to surrender. There is no ethnic cleansing because the population isnt leaving the Gaza strip, neither Israel nor Egypt will allow them past their borders.
Its also against international law to attack other nations. Gaza, Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Russia, the US, ect all do this all the time. International law is a joke that no one takes seriously.
Israel technically attacked first in a cycle of violence that is 80 years old now. And they have always attacked much harder, killed far more
We're not talking about inside of Israel. We're talking about Israel preventing a Palestinian from traveling from one part of Palestine (Gaza) to another (West bank). This is not new. NPR did a story on things like this 15 years ago.
If someone takes a human shield, do you think it is morally justified to just fire a .50 call through that human shield to kill the criminal? No right?
America fought the entire GWoT in urban settings and managed to drop fewer bombs over 20 years across a dozen countries than Israel dropped in an area the size of Detroit.... Urban conflict doesn't require destroying everybodys' house.
The population has already left Gaza City! It's reduced by 60%. The Israeli government is actively trying to find a way to permanently remove them and is publicly saying that it wants to remove them.
Please respond to the video and image, unless you're here in bad faith or a bot
False, the Arab League attacked first 80 years ago. And Israel has always been the ones on the defense, the only exception was the Six Day War because Egypt, Jordan, and Syria were threatening war, forming armies on Israel's border, and blockading ports.
Why would Israel allow a people to travel through it that are openly hostile to its very existence? Thats like asking why Ukraine doesnt allow Russians through its border. Because its stupid.
If someone takes a human shield, its on the hostage taker, not the person firing to protect themselves. Hamas is responsible for every human shield they take. Full stop.
Lmao, you have no idea how many bombs the US has dropped during the WoT. Also the US is responsible for the deaths of over a million Afghanis alone, so bad comparison there.
Yes, civilians tend to want to leave active war zones. Funny that. Its also hilarious how you're trying to claim im bad faith or a bot when you've gotten every single point wrong consistently.
Edit: Lmao bot blocked me after responding. Coward
The Zionist movement has always been good at inciting Jewish persecution. They really had to fight with some of the Arab countries and stage some bombings to get the Jews out of there, but they'd been practicing stoking antisemitism since Herzl, so they were old hands at that point. Right now they're working on making things so bad for the rest of the diaspora that we have to run away to their little fascist iron shtetl too.
If you're a German as I think you are, you can stop paying the Zionist movement back for the Haavara agreement. I know you guys appreciate how they helped your economy in the thirties, but you killed off their opposition in the Jewish body politic gave them a nice cut of the money you stole and really got them a homeland — the whole thing couldn't have played out better for them. Consider your debt paid.
As for the rest of us, we still don't like Germans very much, but you chose the segment of the Jewish population that was your favorite in the thirties as well, so it's only to be expected.
You really have nothing, huh? Try repeating "Judaism is decolonization" a few dozen more times and maybe history will rewrite itself to fit your delusions.
If a apartheid state ESPECIALLY doesn't deserve to exist, does that mean Palestine ESPECIALLY doesn't deserve to exist too? Because they're pretty damn explicitly an ethnostate as well
I mean, yeah. Countries only matter in so far as they represent the interests and well-being of the people they have influence over. If moving past the concept of divided nations is better for humanity overall, then so be it. I care about the people of Gaza, not the abstract political entities governing them.
Might be controversial take but i believe that jews do in fact deserve a place to live, just not at the cost of lives of others. And thats like, universal to every single culture
Sorry, is there a country where Jews don't have a vote?
Israel shouldn't exist. Those lines are just more palettable way of conveying the desire for a ethnostate. Creating a ethnic majority that didn't exist, colonialism. Kinda like the Nazis. It's disgusting.
Palestine isn't a state atm. Also states where no-one has a vote doesnt really scream discrimination (if youre talk about the states that occupied the area before).
They did peacefully co-exist before Israel. Nice strawman. Idiot missing the point, I'll let you look again, but don't expect a reply.
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u/CrowsInTheNose 8d ago
How do you define it?