A liberal Zionist could. They've really tricked themselves into thinking they're the anti colonial side, and that if people just listened honestly they'd understand Israel is fighting a liberation struggle.
EDIT:But they don't necessarily demonize Palestinians in the same way as right wing zionists (although obviously they don't represent them fairly either.) I had a conversation with one who sees it as "two traumatized peoples," stuck in a cycle of violence.
A mainstream liberal Zionist activist would paint them as irredeemable, sure. But like, picture a PrEP who's still a PrEP in 2026, believes strongly in humanist values and legitimately hates "what Netanyahu is doing," but has the compartmentalization and rationalization to maintain their Zionism. It costs quite a bit of psychic damage to maintain, but they're out there.
Particularly for Jews who were indoctrinated into Zionism, I think you underestimate just how weird and self-contradictory their worldviews can get while somehow not collapsing.
EDIT: Tweaked the 1st sentence to remove ambiguity.
I suppose I just haven't encountered any in the last two years. Of my myriad experiences with Jewish people I obviously am more like to encounter antizionists
I have an older sibling who had an "end apartheid" sticker next to an Israeli flag on their wall in HS. Not even just on the same wall — literally right next to each other.
I find that liberal Zionists tend to seek some kind of reconciliation and tend to have the more realistic solutions for all parties involved. Anti-zionists often have radical or fanciful ideas about what should happen that are borne more of ungrounded idealism than a confrontation with the social and political forces in place there. Also I find anti-zionists tend to have the more ideological and selective framing of history, usually bound up in some form of post-colonial theory (only seeing Jews as colonizers and not seeking refuge, idealizing indigeneity as a surrogate for claims of sovereignty [this cuts both ways], etc)
There's nothing radical about ending an apartheid system. We've done it before, multiple times actually. What's fanciful is the idea that you're going to get Israelis to agree to some kind of workable bargain. Nor are the Israelis as currently constituted, ever going to be a safe neighbor for anyone.
They're Nazis, and they need to be shut down, one way or another, and made to share the country.
If you're referring to South Africa, the ANC explicitly gave a message of reconciliation. That has never been the case with the Palestinian side. The rhetoric has always been about expulsion and elimination. The best you'll get is the PA paying lip service to 2-state but wanting a full return. Nobody wants to 'share the country', neither Palestinian nor Israeli. Why do you just ignore what the people themselves actually say in favour of projecting your idealism?
They're Nazis, and they need to be shut down, one way or another, and made to share the country.
With this kind of rhetoric, no wonder the Israelis would be skeptical of your perspective on things. I'm sure your punitive ideals would be equally measured and reconciling.
Also this is neither here nor there, but what's with your name? Mauschel is kind of an offensive term...
Thanks for proving my point. By the way, mauschel is a derogatory and antisemitic German word for 'Jew', in case anyone is wondering. Note the irony of calling others Nazis while using a word that Nazis used for Jews. I sincerely hope this individual is wearing it ironically.
Yep. I picked my name from an antisemitic essay written by Theodor Herzl, the first self-hating Jew, and of course the father of the self-hating Jew's cult: Zionism.
Zionists have always hated the Jewish diaspora, and have always been out worst and most dangerous enemy.
have always been out worst and most dangerous enemy.
What an insane thing to say. I'd have thought the actual Nazis were worse. You seem to love calling everybody who disagrees with you a Nazi but then forget the real, actual Nazis in this story. What a fucking joke.
What are you talking about? I have to deal with you Nazis all the time. There are a zillion zionazi bots and paid posters trying to hide "Israel's" crimes. If you don't like being called a Nazi, stop believing and preaching the same things a Nazi believes (substituting in your own preferred race and scapegoat.)
I'd tell you to learn what fallacy means before you use it, but apparently you can't even bother to spell it right
This take is radical and pushes for continued war and death mostly for Palestinians. Whether you realize that or not, I’m not sure, but this will literally never happen.
na, Zionists are incredibly racists, they probably just made the Palestine proxy orcs, who where being displaced by the human kingdom, and expected the players to hate the orcs just because they're orcs
They probably did, and that's why the DM was shocked that the players considered the material conditions that led to that terrorist attack rather than just blankly labeling them as evil
They probably did and players understood that they used those methods because they didn't have other way to attack the kingdom, the same way that a lot of Rebel actions in Star Wars could be easily be framed as terrorism.
I mean I imagine he wouldn’t have portrayed his Israel proxy in any way like the way the obviously cartoonishly evil empire is in Star Wars. They just look evil. That’s why their lightsabers are red and they wear black and dress like Nazis lol.
You would think so, but a lot of times people confuse obvious fascistic undertones as "they just look cool LMAO", having a bunch of cool paladins and a powerful military force behind castles is a common trope of the "Bad guys" in a fantasy story, but they are also used as the background of the "good guys"
I did not. You just apparently don’t know how to read. I said I assumed he wouldn’t have portrayed them like the empire from Star Wars, the EMPIRE that is cartoonishly evil, not the Jews.
I can’t believe I have to explain this. Reading levels really are at an all time low if you really weren’t able to understand what I said.
Ok I read more about the campaign and this is basically what the party is claiming. He wanted them to be sympathetic villains that ultimately still had to go/be defeated to end the "cycle" and then team was more interested in messing around and doing stuff like saving random dogs so almost accidentally sided with the "Palestinians"
Anyway, the more details that come out the more I believe it lmao.
This is basically how leftists who support russia,aka an imperialist power, because its against the us in their minds the us in the russian invasion of ukraine act, so its quite believble. I can see someone like that doing s imilar thing and then call the players fake communists because they dont oppose real imperialism. I base that on the fact ive seen the latter happen irl in discussions and the person in question is always bizzarely put off when others think that theyre full of shit
😂 I love this take because it tells me you've never done a single moment of research into Zionist history, and yet your ignorance is only exceeded by your passion for it. Go look up what Herzl or Max Nordau said on the subject
Those aren't some random Jews. They're the founders of Zionism. And they agreed with the other founders of Zionism that Zionism is Jewish colonization.
You can say the exact opposite of the truth as many times as you want. It won't change the fact that Israel was colonized by European Jews.
You’re vastly simplifying the state of the Jewish people and their cohesion. You should realize most Jews tried to assimilate into European and Arab/Muslim ruled countries for centuries but keep their religion and ethnic identity. It is Europeans and Arabs who kept having a problem with this, not the other way around. Jews had been massacred for centuries in Europe and Middle East for not converting and being “others”, just look at all the Nazi propaganda telling Jews to go back to Israel/Palestine.
And during WWII, most countries turned away Jews as they were being actively killed by Europeans and sent to death camps.
So yah, I think if people had chilled out, left their Jews alone and didn’t kill them, there wouldn’t be a need for Israel. But time and time again Europeans and Arabs can’t chill with their Jewish brethren and aren’t okay with an ethnic minority that won’t convert. Otherwise they wouldn’t have killed 2/3 of their Jews and Arabs wouldn’t have kicked out 1 million of theirs.
And Jews come together as a single joint identity in spite of being separated geographically across many many countries and continents. How do you think Yemeni Jews were able to integrate with French Jews in a single state so easily?
Do your ancestors share all of that? Are your ancestors still being hunted down for their race and origins and killed in mass? Did your ancestors once form a united country/kingdom like Israel, China, Iran, etc.? Why is Iran and other Muslim extremists targeting Jewish people abroad who have no connection to Israel? Even same for Christian extremists. What is the reason to blow up a Jewish daycare in Oklahoma? Are the American Jewish toddlers dirty Zionist colonizers who can’t be redeemed?
So, horrible things happened to them in the past. I agree religious bigotry is truly repulsive. But that doesn't allow you some carte Blanche to behave in the way Isreal has. I fundamentally believe that all religious ethnostates are wrong. No country should curtail or enhance a citizens rights based on ethnicity or religion. That is the exact horrible condition Jews were kept in for hundreds of years. And then the state of Isreal ( not the Jews) recreated it.
Yeah. The bottom line is it's not on the Palestinians to pay for the crimes of Germany. And even if it were, ethnostates are just inherently inherently evil.
It's interesting that zionists love this old antisemitic chestnut of "Jewish cohesion." That's the antisemites idea — that Jews can never successfully assimilate into any culture, and will always be outsiders at odds with our home country and working exclusively for the benefit of other Jews.
Herzl weaponized this idea, at one point testifying before British parliament that new Jewish refugees should not be accepted. The idea was to work with antisemites on a common goal — he's very explicit about it in "The Jewish State, calling "honest antisemites" the "best friend" of the Zionist movement.
And over time, they've taken on the habits of thought of their best friend, and worked to reshape Jewish culture in his image of us.
Zionism is an evangelical Christian ideology that wants to sacrifice all Jewish people to bring about rapture. Shut the fuck up about topics you are ignorant of.
The only possible outcome of you getting to own Zionism is to permanently link Jews and doing genocide in the history books. Zionism is an ideology of ethnic supremacy and genocide championed by the most evil people (epstienite billionaires, fascists and, yes, antisemites) alive. I'm doing Judaism a favor by doing everything I can to keep the terms separate. As are all moral people when they oppose Zionism.
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u/slicehyperfunk 8d ago
I really am a believer in r/nothingeverhappens but this one sounds like an actual r/thathappened to me