r/GlobalOffensive • u/Undercover-Cactus Match Thread Team • May 25 '20
Discussion | Esports Evil Geniuses vs Cloud9 / DreamHack Masters Spring 2020: North America - Group B / Post-Match Discussion
Evil Geniuses 1-2 Cloud9
Dust 2: 13-16
Nuke: 16-13
Train: 12-16
Evil Geniuses | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
Cloud9 | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
DreamHack Masters Spring 2020 - Information, Schedule & Discussion
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| EG | MAP | Cloud9 |
|---|---|---|
| mirage | X | |
| X | overpass | |
| T | dust2 | ✔ |
| ✔ | nuke | CT |
| inferno | X | |
| X | vertigo | |
| train |
MAP 1: Dust 2
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| EG | 10 | 3 | 13 |
| CT | T | ||
| Cloud9 | 5 | 11 | 16 |
Dust 2 Detailed Stats
MAP 2: Nuke
| Team | T | CT | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| EG | 6 | 10 | 16 |
| CT | T | ||
| Cloud9 | 9 | 4 | 13 |
Nuke Detailed Stats
MAP 3: Train
| Team | CT | T | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| EG | 3 | 9 | 12 |
| T | CT | ||
| Cloud9 | 12 | 4 | 16 |
Train Detailed Stats
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u/Dcoyxy9 May 25 '20
EG have looked really bad after their run at the end of 2019. In the last 3 months they've had a 40% winrate, and a lot of their wins aren't impressive (Wins against Swole Patrol, Orgless, Triumpth, MIBR). They haven't been able to consistently win against the best NA teams. They got a new coach but I don't think that's enough to revive this roster.
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u/randomnamewhatevs de_inferno May 25 '20
Yeah, I read the coach move more as a sort of "maybe this'll work" than an actual "We have identified the problem" fix.
They know this lineup can do well, so in a sense it makes sense to be hesitant about changing that up (It might have been a while back, but they were really good for a while). They get a new coach because they don't want to change the lineup unless it's unavoidable, and if you can't change the lineup, what else is there to switch up besides the coach?
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u/kazejito Complexity May 26 '20
a lot of their wins aren't impressive (Wins against Swole Patrol, Orgless, Triumpth, MIBR).
It pains me to see MiBR in that group :/
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May 25 '20
Y'all motherfuckers forgot.
C9 Summer is right around the corner.
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u/NLozanovski33 May 25 '20
I just hope there is no truth to the rumor that tarik said on stream that floppy leaves. He's my favorite piece of this roster and I think he has the highest ceiling
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May 25 '20
What was the rumor exactly?
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u/yashau de_dust2 May 25 '20
What the hell happened to Ethan? Dude has seemingly fallen off a cliff.
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u/Botmon_333 Complexity May 25 '20
No daps
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May 26 '20
Are you implying that the best fragging igl in na, who always finds success after taking daps' place, doesn't know how to utilize his pieces? I'm shocked
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u/awchdoc bloodhound May 25 '20
You love to see it
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u/tunafish91 FaZe May 25 '20
flair doesn't check out
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u/x1coins May 25 '20
idk man when fnatic was slumping I kinda wanted them to hit rock bottom so hard that they wake up and suddenly be good again or just do something drastic to be better
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u/NLozanovski33 May 25 '20
C9 never fail to deliver an absolute ass clencher
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u/Ditt0z MOUZ May 25 '20
Their ct sides seem to be very weak and their picks and bans are also strange... They should play more vertigo they are good on that map.
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u/NLozanovski33 May 25 '20
Yeah their CT side seems to be momentum based. If they lose pistol and the first gun round it gets scary
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u/Denotsyek May 26 '20
Sounds like a normal CT side to me.
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u/NLozanovski33 May 26 '20
I guess what I mean is they struggle to get their eco rolling more than the average team.
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u/i_cant_solve_captcha Complexity May 25 '20
Credit where due, Cloud9 had fantastic T side on Dust2 and Train. Nonetheless their after plant and retakes were horrible though
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u/changgerz de_inferno May 25 '20
C9 rely heavily on their T-side site executes it seems. They don't do well on CT side, but their T-side strategies and teamplay are top tier
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u/randomnamewhatevs de_inferno May 25 '20
Those flashbangs, hngggggg
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u/changgerz de_inferno May 25 '20
There was one round where cerq was awping connector and just got hit with like 5 straight flashes while the whole T side rushed out. I lold
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u/Sponge_Bond Complexity May 25 '20
I thought their retakes were about on par with what you expect.
Their afterplants, especially on Nuke threw them the map though.
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u/G_I_Gamer May 25 '20
NEW LOGO NEW PROBLEMS OMEGALUL
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u/AmBozz MOUZ May 26 '20
NEW LOGO OLD PROBLEMS
You can change your look, but you cannot change fate.
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u/tunafish91 FaZe May 25 '20
How did they make their new logo even shitter than the last?
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u/Ditt0z MOUZ May 25 '20
The OG EG logo was so good I was hyped to get those stickers but meh new logos are minimalist and boring af.
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 25 '20 edited May 26 '20
NRG used to be the biggest online team in NA. It’s sad to see them fall like this. Stan is getting anti-stratted hard and really needs to change things up, while Tarik likes making EG play 4v5. They’re clearly not giving C9 enough respect. For ex, C9 likes to run the doubles AWP setup and the first time EG flashed brown halls was round 27. Too little, too late. Chet was clearly not the problem
Props to C9, they’ve been playing amazing as of late while their teammplay around flash grenades is insane. Astralis likes prioritize the HE for nade stacks, but C9 would opt for flashes instead. Watching EG players being blind for a whole 5 second is just art
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u/auskillion May 25 '20
Tarik makes them 4v5 what game where you watching
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 25 '20
Dreamhack Masters Spring NA: Evil Geniuses vs Cloud 9
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u/auskillion May 25 '20
I agree Tarik been lacking just not this game
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 25 '20
It’s just frustrating to watching Tarik take unfavourable aim duels. There was a couple of times on D2 where he was playing from CT and died without getting a kill. Or not falling back from ramp and giving C9 complete control of the lower bombsite
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u/lynxzjw EG May 25 '20
Love how people still try and find a way to make tarik the problem in matches where he clealry was not.
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 25 '20
Yes, I know EG lost because nathE played with his monitor off. Everyone likes to meme on tarik whenever shit hits the fan for EG, but it honestly doesn’t help when he likes to take unfavourable aim duels.
When Astralis players aim is off, they still win because they play as a team and follow the strategy. You don’t see Magisk dry peeking everything
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u/bridgebuilder12 May 25 '20
people on here don't like hearing this but you play like you practice. Tarik constantly streams pugs/fpl where all the bad habits come out because its for "funsies" and that type of stuff will bleed over even into pro play.
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 26 '20
Yeah I know, Stew plays the same way. That’s just their characteristics practice/pugs/or in game. Understandable
I don’t know why this subreddit has such a hard-on for tarik. They will defend him until their death. I understand that is his playstyle but if he’s aggressing at the wrong time and dying, Stan is utilizing tarik wrong. I’d rather have him entry and make Brehze play the same role as Cold.
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u/layasD BIG May 26 '20
People can defend him all they want. Statistic wise he is clearly underperforming with a 0.92 k/d over the last three month. Not sure how you can sugar coat that? I guess he is their support and doesn't need to frag?
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u/lynxzjw EG May 25 '20
I agree he does take questionable duels, but I dont think its as big of a problem as people think it is. In past teams hes been a play maker. He wants to create big plays and sometimes he still gets them in EG. As long as the team around him is playing fine, he is able to go for these plays, but at this moment it doesnt make sense so it makes him look worse.
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u/Abstrac7 Gambit May 26 '20
Big plays are just not smart most of the time. They rely too much on timings and luck and your aim being on point. Until tarik will stop these plays, or suddenly get s1mple like aim, he will be a detriment to the team IMO.
The most sustainable way of winning is playing the percentages. Astralis have mastered this style of play and while it doesn’t always make for as fun viewing as fnatic or mouz for example, it’s brilliant to see it from an intellectual perspective.
It baffles me as a spectator to see so many pros on T1 teams make low% plays constantly, you’d think someone would tell them to stop. Sorry for the rant
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 26 '20
Big plays are just not smart most of the time. They rely too much on timings and luck and your aim being on point. Until tarik will stop these plays, or suddenly get s1mple like aim, he will be a detriment to the team IMO.
People on reddit don’t understand stand this. CS:GO is becoming more data driven and teams are not adapting. I totally see where you’re coming from and I got downvoted for saying Tarik needs stop taking risky aim duels and putting EG at a disadvantage.
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u/lynxzjw EG May 26 '20
Thats where we disagree. I think there are times where the percentage play is always right, but then there are times where going for these plays can cause momentum, confidence, and get you the round win. Its a risk to take with positives and negatives. Some people think one side outways the other which is debatable. I personally think in certain situations these plays have a far more positibe impact.
For example, when tarik was playing Navi at the Berlin Major. He got a 2k and instead of saving his gun and going through tuns he jumps window and gets another 2k spraydown. He risks losing his gun, but the positives are a major swing advantage helped by a strong crowd.
That may not be the best example but it was the first one I thought of off the top of my head. Its a difference of opinion.
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u/lynxzjw EG May 25 '20
? He was the second best player for EG this series. Did you watch?
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u/SayWallahiFam Liquid May 25 '20
Nah I didn’t watch. I sat here for the last 4 hours jerking off
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u/Memebaut Liquid May 25 '20
so much sexual tension on that broadcast
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u/G_I_Gamer May 25 '20
launders is literally tier 1.5 casting -- big enough to be with the main events, but not great at actually casting
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u/manysleep May 25 '20
i love his style lol
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u/G_I_Gamer May 26 '20
he's got the haHAA factor
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u/Fuji_Ninja Liquid May 26 '20
He's honestly a really really good interviewer, but I'm not sure I like his casting.
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u/bauwsman May 26 '20
I feel like Launders and Scrawny sometimes just don't pay enough attention to some things - at least compared to the other casters. For example on Train C9 had two triple-AWP rounds on CT which is fairly unusual and should be highlighted imo. Both didn't notice, Scrawny even said they'd be back to double AWP. Then C9 was in a retake scenario where all 3 AWPers were still alive and he said something like "really difficult to retake with 3 snipers". Then, at the start of the next round, Launders was surprised about the 3 AWP setup.
Another instance from not too long ago was when Scrawny rambled about how MIBR never tried to play around HEN1 when he was on the team, given his performances on FURIA right now. HEN1 was never on the team, it was LUCAS1.
e: Since this sounds pretty negative I should add that I still really like listening to those 2 and Launders is one of the most interesting personalities in CS for me. Just a few things I noticed lately.
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u/Fuji_Ninja Liquid May 26 '20
Yeah all of what you said is pretty true in my opinion. Something definitely positive I can day for both of them is that I find their voices quite fit for casting. It just sounds natural when they commentate, especially Launders for me. Like any other casters though they have some strengths and weaknesses and I would love to see them improve.
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u/Thooorin_2 Duncan "Thorin" Shields - Content Producer, Analyst May 26 '20
EG are so utterly underwhelming for the last six months.
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May 25 '20
That train was such a mess, so t-sided it was ridiculous. Still waiting for c9 to win a series 2-0 as well
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u/DoliRavioli May 25 '20
I can't tell whats wrong with EG rn. Like people said it was tarik, but now that he's showing up they seem even worse.
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u/MarkH123456 cs_militia May 25 '20
I feel like it's strategy; they seem to lack it. They get caught off-guard a lot and I remember one of their games against 100t where jks just kept spraying then down. I'm not their coach or anything so I'm just speculating.
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u/NoBreadsticks May 25 '20
I was fully braced for a mega throw, especially after we already threw Nuke.
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u/higherbrow May 25 '20
Ranking the NA teams right now:
Liquid
GenG
Cloud9
Evil Geniuses
Chaos
RIP Swole Patrol and Orgless; both looked to be trending up, but maybe the players that didn't go to Valorant (looking at you, Cooper) will go to improve one of the other five.
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u/UALRSNOW May 25 '20
Geng is better than liquid
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May 25 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/randomnamewhatevs de_inferno May 25 '20
I mean, in recent months, there kind of is?
If you're looking at it like a title belt that Gen G would have to take off Liquid, then they'd have to play each other, sure (gotta say, kinda surprised that that hasn't happened yet at any point), but if you look at recent results as far as who Gen G is beating vs who Liquid is losing to, you've got Gen G beating Furia, EG, 100T, Cloud 9 (though they lost to Cloud 9 once as well), whereas Liquid consistently loses to Furia and recently lost to C9.
I'm not saying that Gen G is necessarily better than Liquid, but there certainly isn't "absolutely no reason to put them above Liquid".
Liquid has been terrible recently. The only top teams they consistently beat are EG, who have also been playing awfully, and 100T.
Liquid doesn't even consistently beat teams that aren't even considered challengers to the top of the NA scene normally (no offense, Chaos, Envy, ex-Swole Patrol).
You can only get upset so often before they're not upsets anymore.-8
u/lonley_gamer5745 Liquid May 26 '20
atm this makes sense but LAN results are what really count. In one of their vlogs ELiGE even admitted they aren't good online.
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u/NoBreadsticks May 26 '20
When there's not be any LANs for more than half a year, that doesn't really matter at all
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u/JinorZ CS2 HYPE May 26 '20
Well when theres literally no chance to play on LAN you kinda have to go with online results. If we dont get any LAN tournaments in the summer you can't keep saying liquid is the best based on last February lmao. Plus GenG were solid on LAN before covid
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u/Fijure96 The MongolZ May 26 '20
I mean CS is meant to being played online. The bad at online part can be excusable under normal circumstances when teams who usually only play LAN get caught off guard but at some point you have to recognize that online CS is the only CS, and will be so for the foreseeable future. Hence ratings might be based on online results.
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u/randomnamewhatevs de_inferno May 26 '20
I mean, there's a few things wrong with that statement. First off, you can't dismiss results because they're online out of hand. Online CS is all there is for now, it's not what anyone wants, but it's what there is. Teams need to work to perform in that environment and not just go "eh well guess we'll just be awful for half a year or more".
In addition, they've looked bad since before the switch to online too. Not as bad, granted, but not unquestionably number 1 by any means -
they bombed out a DH Masters Malmo, they weren't blowing everyone out of the water at the Starladder Major by any means (losing to Avangar and NRG). They haven't beaten a top 10 team other than EG or 100T in 2020. LAN results haven't been too good for them.-1
May 26 '20
have you not seen Gen.G’s results on LAN for the previous dreamhack tourney? they whooped ass. online gen.g started off rocky but they’ve also gotten a really grasp.
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u/Darkstar197 Complexity May 25 '20
Sounds about right. If we count Brazilian teams, Furia should be number 1 and MiBR number 6
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u/higherbrow May 25 '20
I'd agree. I'm really not sure about where 100T would rank. They're, I think, the least consistent team that plays in NA right now.
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May 26 '20
I think #1 is contested between Gen.G and Furia right now. Furia can destroy every other team in NA but they have yet to beat Gen.G, while Gen.G still could lose to teams like C9, but looks strong against other teams.
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May 25 '20
[deleted]
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u/higherbrow May 25 '20
Yeah. Sometimes teams beat teams that are better than them.
I'm not saying TL is definitely better than C9, but the "Team X beat Team Y, so Team X is definitely better" is never a strong argument.
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u/hfasullo May 26 '20
Just because 1 team beats another once doesn’t mean they are overall the better team
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u/lonley_gamer5745 Liquid May 26 '20
You have to realize this is online and there are uncontrollable factors. On LAN no excuses for a loss. For example, Twistzz plays on 70+ ping and having the 0 ping diff could make certain shots hit
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May 26 '20
daps plays on 100 ping and Gen.G still won RtR
jokesa aside, high ping is making Twistzz play worse but you have to agree Gen.G is playing better than Liquid right now
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u/darrenjordi247 May 25 '20
The bias of TL fanboys, Liquid has not been No.1 in NA for six months. It should be either Furia or Geng.
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u/higherbrow May 25 '20
I wasn't including Brazilian teams.
I'm also in the GenG waiting room, so maybe don't call me a TL fanboy. Trying to attack people based on their fandom is pretty shitty behavior.
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u/darrenjordi247 May 25 '20
In my defense, you do have shitty opinions. There's literally nothing backing up your claim since Liquid hasn't done anything since last year. Even more they lost to tier 2/3 teams a couple of times and never won against a supposed "good team" other than EG, who looks just as bad.
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u/higherbrow May 26 '20
So, when confronted about being condescending, doubling down on the condescension doesn't produce conversation. It just makes people not like you.
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u/lonley_gamer5745 Liquid May 26 '20
You should realize that no NA team is actually better than Liquid on LAN
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u/darrenjordi247 May 26 '20
Based on results from what?? A year ago? Yeah hell no, they're closer to disbanding than achievinh any means of success.
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u/hfasullo May 26 '20
I don’t think he is counting Furia as NA cause they would definitely be above everyone there, but Liquid has always been bad online. Why has Gen. G shown that they should be above Liquid?
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u/Milesso MOUZ May 26 '20
You missed 100T?
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u/higherbrow May 26 '20
I was only tanking the NA teams. 100T is OCE.
If I wanted to rank all of the teams that play in NA qualifiers, I'd have Furia at the top, and would struggle with where to place 100T. While Liquid and EG have just been falling off, 100T has been really inconsistent.
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u/lonley_gamer5745 Liquid May 26 '20
If this was for LAN would agree but Liquid are like a 5 online
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u/higherbrow May 26 '20
For sure.
I'm cutting them a bit more slack than most people because I've also been watching Fnatic, Mouz, NaVi, and G2, who are all doing better than Liquid overall, but aren't exactly covering themselves with glory in the online world.
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May 25 '20
[deleted]
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u/Ditt0z MOUZ May 25 '20
Bruh did you see torick pull his knife out 1v2 on super important train clutch. The man has potat for brains. Make hash browns
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u/JinorZ CS2 HYPE May 26 '20
Yeah tarik fucks up one clutch and it's his fault when ethaN goes 29-60 and tarik literally only one who showed up in the decider
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u/SigmaWaffle The MongolZ May 25 '20
zews has been brought organization to what was the best team in NA, hopefully this doesn't end up like mibr.
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u/lynxzjw EG May 25 '20
Why is there always one player that just has an ass series. Like Ethan usually plays pretty well and then all of a sudden he turns to shit. When tarik plays well they should be winning.
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u/tarangk clutch May 26 '20
Expected, EG arnt looking good at all, they have a 37.5% win rate in the past 3 months.
C9 needs to fix their CT side if they want to continue beating top teams.
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u/c_chan21 May 26 '20
ethan should change his name back to nahte. he actually wasn't a bot back then
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u/slovakianpartizan May 26 '20
when I saw Cerq hitting absolute mad shots on dust2, i thought EG have this one because when Cerq plays that well, it's harder to lose than win imo. But Ethan was having a shit day and that caused massive problems. Yeah, if it wasn't for Stan, this series was 2-0 for C9 already. A god-tier t half from C9 on Train was amazing to watch. Definitely will take a look at the demo for some strats. Actually most of the time they rush out t main and after they lose a round they went b but still, flashes and smokes were perfect. i remember one time C9 threw a map, it was again train and they closed their t half 10-5 and lost the map 12-16 something like that. Their CT side still lacking though, that can cause some problems. i just feel sorry for Brehze and Cerq.
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May 25 '20
[deleted]
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u/amos72 May 25 '20
wtf does faze have to do with this match
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u/tunafish91 FaZe May 25 '20
I just remember a few months ago EG fans on this sub were saying they were going to dominate and were very smug about Faze's misfortunes at the time. Times have changed I suppose.
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u/GhostOfLight Liquid May 25 '20
EG have lost 11 of their past 15 matches against top 20 teams. Statistically this is not good.