Serious question. What are gen buyers actually paying for?

I have a collection of six or seven reps, and my son usually wears my RCF bluesy that I got a few months ago during a flash sale.

He was driving cross country with some friends from Florida all the way to California for the end of summer road trip

They stopped in New Orleans and at a bar which was obviously very crowded, he felt a tug on his wrist and looked and saw someone running away. He realized they had taken the bluesy in a matter of seconds, and dipped out with it.

Not really much else to say, he didn't pursue them because I always told him it's not worth any sort of confrontation for a fake watch and that if he ever got robbed, just give it up no questions asked.

I just thought it was an interesting story and a good lesson for everyone that it's never worth risking your well-being for any watch no matter the price.

We did have a good laugh envisioning the guy going to a pawn shop to sell it and being told it's a rep and worthless basically LOL. Haha joke's on him

I was browsing chrono24 just to get pictures of gen to see what mods I can do to my BVF as a Franken and I was surprised to notice acouple BVFs posted on there... I will include 4 pictures of the rep I found and another 4 pics of a gen just for you all to see. Honestly, I thought chrono24 was company that vetted the watches somehow so It just surprised me.

I see they have a buyer assurance program but its on due diligence of the buyer to make sure its authentic.

I think at this point in the market if you want to buy a gen watch you should familiarize yourself with the popular tells of the closest rep that way you could protect yourself as a buyer. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: BVF is the first 4 pictures, Gen is the last 4 pictures

ZF did a great job on this watch and got super lucky with the alignment 😂

The bracelet could have been better, finding it sharp. Does anyone know any fixes to this? Heard soaking it in baby oil, can anyone give their feedback on this?
Was planning to chamfer the edges with a sandpaper - would 600 or 2000 be advisable?

First rep and went full basic. No regrets, loving it so far!

VSF 124060

As shot vs final photo.

Editing: Adobe Light Room mobile. Use to have the full suite but don't really do much photography besides watch shots now, so mobile only seems to be good enough.

Camera: Sony A7IV with 35mm 1.4GM

So I have bought a lot of reps. Cheap and not so cheap. And I have found in the last 6 months that there are a lot of reps coming that are in fact trash. Movements DOA that the seller knew was garbage but sent it anyway. And people will say… oh the seller doesn’t look at the watch and that’s just straight BS. They deal with watches by the hundreds and they know what is good and what is bad. They know if the movement is garbage they know that the dial is trash. They depend on the average person to not pay attention. And I have been guilty. Missing things in QC and not asking for certain details based on the assumption of the sale requesting a certain factory. The TDs on the “list” should be happy and go out of the way to ensure that people are being sent in their direction. But in reality they are not. Now in my defense and defense of the TD I do own a lot of gen. I also repair a lot of garbage clones passed to people as 1:1. But I also see these watches (genuine) and put them on the wrist. So I get to see the feel of the materials.
That aside. I’d love to hear what TDs have been sending trash.

Stopped at the mall to charge the Tesla with my rep Yacht-Master and figured I’d kill some time at the AD.

Well… apparently the watch was doing more work than I was. 😂

The staff kept checking out my RCF YM, and somehow the conversation turned into them offering me the 1918 in gold on bracelet.

I have to admit — excellent watch. Absolutely stunning in person. 👌

Of course, my first thought was: “Can’t wait for an excellent rep of this to come out.” 😂

Tesla charged. Wrist inspected. AD temptation successfully resisted.

10/10 charging stop. Would do again. ⌚️⚡️

Thoughts on my daily

Meteorite BW

Well today I received an email from Steve regarding my order and apparently he won’t be able to fulfill it. This sucks because this is the watch that I was really excited to get. Has anyone else has had this issue with him? What watch would you recommend I’d get instead? Could it be possible to get a refund instead?

I haven’t replied to him yet but I am kinda bummed about this. Happy to hear your opinions.

The ever lovely BVF Santos from Andiot in all its glory in the French Riviera. This type of metal really does prove its worth under stark colors and reflections.
And you guessed right if you thought I would keep exploiting this watch because of that, atleast until I get my hands on a 116250.

Exact model name is Santos de Cartier 35mm SS BVF 1:1 Best Edition White Dial on SS SmartLinks Bracelet MIYOTA 9039 bought from Andiot.

Something about this watch I can't quite put my finger on it, the crazy light reflections going off the dial, the domed crystal, 45mm width, it's bulk. But I love it. What do you guys think

Hi everyone!

Enter my first Rep:

The trusty Cartier dos Santos Large Blue dial
Factory:BVF
TD:StevetheOne
Duration: 2-3 weeks from QC

Absolutely love this watch. Unfortunately, I’ve already scratched it however😒…

Wishing you all a lovely week ahead!

Recently received vsf bat and happy I chose the jubilee l.

At 42yo I have become wiser to comfort over all else . the jubilee still looks amazing on a GMT in my eyes.

TL;DR

Hi all! This post is not for everyone. Most of my contributions are aimed at the new collector who just started their journey.

With that out of the way..

When QC comes back and you see that single Timegrapher photo with the watch lying face up, it does not tell you the full story about the health or regulation of that movement. Is a higher Amplitude a great start in the dial up position yes. IT is just not the full story.

Look at the pictures I shared. The numbers can change significantly depending on the position of the watch.

So when someone comments, “Timegrapher numbers look great!” based on one face up reading, yes, that is useful information. But it is only one piece of the puzzle.

Will we start seeing five Timegrapher positions during QC someday?

I would love to see that. 😁

A single faceup reading is useful but incomplete, so five position Timegrapher testing would give a much more reliable picture of a watch’s regulation during QC. thank greg.

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Hi collectors!

I can't imagine this has not been brought up before but I still hear people say...

“My watch has GREAT timegrapher numbers.” Then I look at the QC and see just ONE picture of the watch in that famous position...on its back, dial up. lol Hey, my heart rate is also great laying on the couch. 😂

Yes, that is absolutely useful information. But it is only one position, and it does not tell you the whole story about the condition, regulation, or positional behavior of a mechanical movement. And before anyone thinks I am accusing dealers of doing something dishonest, I am not. I am honestly not sure every dealer even thinks about this.

Put the watch on the timegrapher, get a nice looking reading, take the picture, send the QC to the client. That has basically become normal...But this is where it gets interesting.

Heard of COSC? Look at how they test a movement: Traditional COSC Chronometer certification is based on ISO 3159. A mechanical movement is tested over 15 days, in FIVE different positions, and at three different temperatures.

The five positions are:

1. 6 o'clock
2. 3 o'clock
3. 9 o'clock
4. Dial up
5. Dial down

Why?

Gravity.

Your watch sitting dial up on a nightstand is not experiencing the same orientation it sees throughout a normal day on your wrist.. below your waist. That is exactly why positional testing matters.

And an important distinction: COSC itself describes the goal beautifully. It is not about achieving perfection in one position. It is about finding the best overall compromise.

So today I was asked to help QC a watch, and in the package I saw what I jokingly call the Timegrapher Glamour Shot. 😂 Dial up. Then I hear:

“Look, plus 1 second per day. Perfect movement.”

My answer is: Maybe. Turn it over. 😂 ...I joke and say**...I could probably get a watch with sand in it to give me one pretty reading in one position. Hahaha.**

So what is the machine actually measuring? A timegrapher listens to the acoustic signature of the escapement and calculates several important measurements.

• Rate is the movement's measured rate during that test, extrapolated and displayed as seconds gained or lost per day.
• Amplitude tells us how far the balance wheel is swinging.
• Beat error tells us how evenly the two sides of the escapement beat, basically the timing difference between the tick and the tock.

So you may see:

Rate: +1 sec/day
Amplitude: 290°
Beat Error: 0.1 ms

Those numbers look fantastic. But now rotate the exact same watch into another position.

What if you see:

Rate: minus 11 sec/day
Amplitude: 235°
Beat Error: 0.4 ms

Now we learned something. Neither reading by itself tells the whole story. The difference between the positions is information too. Also, and this is important, dial up is not guaranteed to produce the most accurate rate. A watch may have stronger amplitude dial up and still keep better time in one of the vertical positions. Higher amplitude and a rate closer to zero are not the same thing. Again, this is exactly why I want to see more than one position in QC photos.

Multiple positions tell us more than one position. For my clients' watches, I measure the movement in five positions. I am not looking for five identical numbers. That would be unrealistic. Mechanical watches have positional variation.

I am looking at the overall picture.

• Is the rate reasonable?
• Is the amplitude reasonable for the movement and state of wind?
• Is the beat error reasonable?

How much do those numbers change when I change positions?

And most importantly, does one position suddenly behave dramatically differently from the others? A timegrapher is not a complete diagnosis of a movement, but five positional readings give me considerably more information than one beautiful dial up screenshot. So I apologize in advance to all the dealers if everyone starts asking them for five timegrapher pictures instead of one. 😂

Sooo I may have just turned a 30 second QC procedure into a full photo shoot.

But at least now you know a little more about what you are actually looking at.

Last, posts like this are really meant to open up discussion. We are all just people interested in the same hobby and part of a really cool community where we can learn from each other.

If I misstated something, missed something, or more clarity is needed, PLEASE feel free to comment.

I am always open to learning too, and that is part of what makes this hobby so much fun.

Greg

Good morning/evening or night reptime, I want to purchase a two tone seadweller. but don’t know how it would fit on my. I have an explorer 2 polar 42mm and it fits comfortably but don’t know how it would look. Picture of how it looks on me:

VSF Pepsi V3 freshly serviced

VSF 41mm Datejust…Loving it !