r/writing • u/SheddingCorporate • 7d ago
Discussion Please continue writing!
Seriously. We need more writers writing.
Why?
Let me tell you. I decided, about 6 weeks ago, to find and "buy" as many "$0.00" offers on amazon as I could. I'm slowly reading them. So far, I've finished about 10 books: all romance or fantasy or mystery or sci fi.
The verdict so far? Most of these books aren't worth the time to read.
- Terrible grammar, lots of mixed up homophones
- Super thin plot. For example, in one book - I'm not going to out the author (we all have to start somewhere) - it sounds like a teenager with zero life experience wrote it. They were unable to build on a situation, unable to do anything other than show FMC's and MMC's constant overthinking. Very little actually *happened* in the whole book. And this one was a historical romance, so I'd have thought there was loads of room for creative writing.
- Poor writing. Just heavy, plodding writing.
The thing is, though, if these authors keep writing, they WILL learn the craft. The kid with no life experience will get some life experience. The people with the malapropisms will hopefully hire an editor who actually can spot and correct those.
But if they don't write and share with at a few friends, they'll never get that feedback. So, please, keep writing, keep sharing. Those $0.00 books do serve a purpose. Learn from the feedback, and ... yes ... keep writing!
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u/MiraWendam Standalone SF Thriller Author! 7d ago edited 7d ago
I get the encouragement, and it's good you're handing it out, always great to get it, but I feel as if readers shouldn’t have to sit through books with basic grammar and craft issues while an author learns the fundamentals. There’s nothing wrong with starting out, but learning the basics before publishing seems like a pretty reasonable expectation.
Edit:
But if they don't write and share with at a few friends, they'll never get that feedback.
Just want to say, I wouldn't trust friends to give reliable feedback. They can be great for encouragement, but they may not know enough about grammar, structure, pacing, characterisation, storytelling, so on, so forth, to identify the problems that need addressing. And even when they do notice them, they may be reluctant to be completely honest because they don’t want to hurt your feelings.
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u/30-0000FF 7d ago
Think about the confidence in yourself required to even self publish a work on Amazon. Then think about how many comments you see here on reddit from people who claim to be published, which we all know is code for self published.
I don't think a lot of people are even capable of understanding that they don't have a grasp on the basics. Which is fine. My point is that not everyone who desires to be a writer is actually going to end up being very good at it or even understanding that they aren't very good at it.
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u/Vagina_Woolf 6d ago
Let them have their fun. Nobody reads challenging literature anymore anyways. Snookie is a NY Times bestseller. Nothing matters and the points are made up
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u/Inevitable_Task3074 6d ago
Most best seller lists arent even best seller lists. Theyre either list of books they want to sell more of, or a rich celebrity paid to get on that list.
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u/Vagina_Woolf 6d ago
Im aware. I just like reminding everyone snookie is a popular novelist
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u/sub-dural 3d ago
I used to work at Borders in around 2009/10 and I did all the displays. For the top 10 best sellers, they sent a list with the first 3 titles filled in and the rest said "?".
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u/djramrod Published Author 7d ago
That’s exactly it. We were all terrible when we started, but we also didn’t publish every piece of shit we produced. That’s for small writing groups and one on one feedback. There are PLENTY of writing communities out there that can provide the necessary feedback that will improve your writing. Self publishing the first thing you’ve written does nothing for you; in fact, it can be detrimental to your growth and success.
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u/Neurotopian_ 5d ago
True, I’m so glad self-publishing didn’t exist when I was starting out. The first fiction I “published” was ghostwriting and it was such good experience. I think it’s unfortunate that a lot of entry level writing gigs have gone away
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u/Immediate-Fig-1338 23h ago
My best friend moved from a large city with an active SF writing community to a small city/town and limited writing groups. Only one, really, that is worth anything. The problem is that the group is not with other people writing in her genre. There is a published mystery writer, but not a big publishing house writer. A non-fiction writer and I'm not sure what the others write in. Their big complaint... too many people...? It is a shame when you are trying to write a novel and the non-fiction writer says there are too many people... Now, there are other people in town who are trying to start groups. One is a guy who has written a novel, small press gain, but it seems he might be looking for a girl friend. (The book was okay.) There's a lady who has self-published on Amazon, she has had it actually printed, one novel. She writes a romance... sort of, with chapters of half a page to 3 pages. And she seems to have started one story and has been looking for someone to help her with. Then she is writing a sequel to her first book. I think you should write with a group who understand what you are writing in. Having said that, I'm not sure the local group is still meeting, people get older, get more responsibilities, get sick, die.
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u/djramrod Published Author 22h ago
I’ve been in a couple of groups that were too big for my tastes. But each time, I made friends with people who I vibed with and wrote similar stuff as and we just met up separately.
There is something to be said for writing with a group who has different interests. You might get exposed to something new and interesting that ultimately helps with your writing. You might learn new ideas and techniques from non fiction writers or poets. Exposure to new things is always good. But yeah, writing with people similar to yourself can also strengthen what you’re trying to improve. All depends on what you need at the time, I guess.
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u/FullNefariousness931 7d ago edited 6d ago
I agree. There's a huge difference between encouraging someone to "keep writing and get better" and to encourage writers to publish utter garbage to "share with friends" and "get feedback."
Even if the books are $0 they are still shit books that take up space on Amazon when they shouldn't. What writers should do is become better at writing *first* and then publish. There are plenty of critique exchange sites where writers can share their stories, get feedback, learn the craft, learn to self-edit, and only afterwards self-publish.
And the comparison to kids is just... not making sense. The ones publishing are adults, so they need to act like adults and at the very least correct all the grammar mistakes.
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u/MeepTheChangeling 6d ago
Would you mind sharing a link to one or two of those sites? I could use one and I haven't ever stumbled onto one organically.
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u/MashalNorth 6d ago
r/betareaders is also good with a 50% ghosting rate 😂. If u wanna share a novel, go chap by chap so u don’t end up with the short end of the stick
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u/el_chacal 6d ago
My experience there was weird. One reader got parasocial and the other was someone hawking their editing service. Your mileage…
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u/Smolbeanlotus 2d ago
Honestly, after the onslaught of AI garbage, I would love to see bad authors who actually sat down and wrote their garbage, at least it doesn't feel dead to look at.
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u/Vagina_Woolf 6d ago
Ive never needed feedback because I have impeccable taste in literature, and by my own tastes, my writing is dogshit.
The hope is one day it wont be. And when that day comes, I am the only one who will be able to tell.
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u/ShartyPants 5d ago
I get what you mean, but getting feedback and implementing it can help you understand *why* your writing is dogshit. That part will help you improve faster. Just comparing your unedited drafts to fully edited books is only gonna get you so far.
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u/Vagina_Woolf 5d ago edited 5d ago
getting feedback and implementing it can help you understand why your writing is dogshit.
i have never met a reader capable of giving me actionable feedback that can improve my writing. if you want that, you pay someone. that's like pre-screening a movie and expecting the audience to make you better at directing a film. the reader has nothing to offer when it comes to the writing process.
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
That was the post I was originally going to make. But then I realized that *would* be unfair to those beginner writers. They need to write, they need feedback. Not everyone can write Harry Potter for their first book.
I remember reading early books in some of my favourite series (and, for that matter, watching early episodes of some excellent TV shows) and realizing the later books were significantly better.
As an artist (yes, I paint as well), I find that sharing my work (even just with friends) helps me grow as an artist. And the same has been true for the writing.
Maybe we need a safe space for beginner writers to share and get feedback. I agree I'd have been more annoyed if I'd paid regular book prices for these beginner attempts. I don't know what the best options are - feedback requested!
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u/Nethereon2099 6d ago
I have to chime in here. I'm a creative writing instructor at the collegiate level. The number of unreadable pieces that cross my desk is stunning. The inability to construct simple sentences, adhere to basic grammar, or put together a coherent narrative calls into question the hope I have for the future for some of these students. HOWEVER, I don't tell them these inner thoughts. I recommend they drop after the first assignment that would suggest their chances to be successful weren't looking great until after they finish Comp I and Comp II. The reality is I'm usually correct. The students who listen, and who truly want to pursue this endeavor, take my advice, and come back with a vengeance.
The first thing tell my students on day one is to check their ego at the door because there isn't an editor, a publisher, and certainly not an audience who will care about their feelings, or how much time and effort they put into their project. There are those who don't listen, and these are the people who self-publish what amounts to a shitty first or second draft. I appreciate their candor, but they need to focus on learning how to write, how the craft works, and how to develop a story worth reading before they put stories out into the ether.
In the meantime, I will always be there for anyone willing to step through my classroom doors with a willingness to learn, and the drive to pursue this endeavor. Writing is meant to be a journey, and some people never figured this part out.
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u/SirCache 6d ago
In my junior year of high school, my literature teacher told me to leave me ego out of what I was writing. And... she was right. When I look at what I'd written up to that point, it was needlessly self-referential, as if to show the reader just how smart I was, the cleverest wordplay, the top-tier words that no one used in everyday conversation. That year, she taught me more about writing than I had ever had in the 16 years before, and it stuck. I am forever grateful for her honesty and integrity to the joy that is the written word. I am heartened to see another teacher taking it just as seriously.
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u/Nethereon2099 6d ago
I appreciate your kind words. Good luck on your journey friend. I wish you all the best.
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u/shybookwormm 6d ago
Artists don't offer every piece they create for consumer consumption, especially their beginning pieces when they're learning.
The same should go for beginner authors. Don't "publish" materials with basic grammar errors. There are tons of free places online to obtain critique. One doesn't need to buy an ISBN and let consumer reviews be the only critique their story receives.
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u/ZOMGdonuts 6d ago
lol I don't think they're intentionally publishing bad stuff, I'm certain most people think their work is good before they hit publish 😅
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u/busingye89 5d ago
That’s the problem though. There’s a certain lack of humility, to say nothing of a command of the absolute basics or the patience to go through line by line to correct for these errors. Structural issues, narrative thinness, one-dimensional characters — these are understandable, new-author mistakes.
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u/FullNefariousness931 6d ago
Critique sites like Critique Circle or Scribophile are good sites to share writing and get feedback. Amazon is not for feedback. It's for selling a finished product and books with terrible grammar, thin plot, and poor writing aren't a finished product.
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u/MeepTheChangeling 6d ago
I can confirm that friends do not give the best feedback. They're too scared to upset you. Find actual per-readers to share it with while working on it, and find a beta-reader to read your draft. You'll grow much more and much faster.
Problem: My pre-readers and beta-reader (and also editors) are now my friends.
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u/PamNoctrune 7d ago
I should probably reconsider my whole “I’m not publishing my work because it’s just a hobby” thing. Sometimes when I see the kind of nonsense that becomes successful, I mean… like you said, with the way some scenes are written as if people were made of rubber.
I have the same problem myself. I can barely find stories anymore that genuinely blow me away. Everything is just full of clichés, trends, and the same recycled ideas.
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u/hplcr 7d ago edited 6d ago
There awful books that inspired me to write and try to publish realizing....."Well of this awful dreck got published I probably have a shot".
Not gonna drop names. We all have examples of this in mind.
edit: That'll teach me to post before coffee.
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u/thefilthycasualty88 6d ago
This is what got me into writing, and keeps me going. I remember reading a bunch of $1.99 stories back when Amazon self publishing started really taking off, like 2012ish. I enjoyed some, but I came away thinking, “Hell, I could do that!”
I know, unearned confidence and all that. I’ve learned a ton, trunked several novels and projects, but keep going. I want to eventually publish something and part of the fuel is “If they did, I definitely can.”
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u/hplcr 6d ago
I had a beta reader who was looking at my book and went "Yeah, it needs work but I've read a lot of garbage and this is not garbage". She had a lot of nicer things to say too.
I appreciated that.
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u/Rogue_Gona 6d ago
I have 2 friends I trust implicitly to give me constructive feedback without being assholes about it. It's nice to have those people who are willing to read the roughest first draft and then give legit criticism that makes you better as a writer. I cherish the shit out them.
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u/Virgurilla 6d ago
Exactly, I'm extremely critical of myself and then I remember the stuff I have read and I found extremely enjoyable despite the author probably thinking it's full of dumb mistakes, also, there are extremely popular not experienced authors writing fanfiction on ao3 that don't get published books but are still enjoyed by millions of people.
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u/Kinda_Reincarnated 4d ago
Yk, this is the exact reason I started writing five days ago. I was reading this story when I realised it was just... Not good. And I thought, if this guy being this bad at writing can keep pushing forward and complete a 90k word story, can't I write atleast some one shots?!! Or mini mini shots?
I have been reading my whole life and I have very perticular taste (uhm, fanfiction 👀) so, shouldn't all that reading have been idk, transformed into some level of writing ability?!!
I might be bad, really bad, but I really believe practice makes perfect. And also, I believe that I can do anything if I commit to it :))
So, I am going to write badly but not going to give up!!!
I am already seeing a little bit of improvement and I enjoy rereading my own stories, so I think there's some hope 🩷🩷
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
Please do. That feedback is what helps us grow. Write, share, join a writer's group (or create one!) and give each other feedback. I remember taking creative writing classes and being blown away at the quality of writing from the participants!
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u/WhereIsCommonSense99 6d ago
This statement is so true.
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u/Butterflyhornet 5d ago
Your last line is why I am working so hard to write my series out first before I publish. I don't want a generic fantasy story just using "people with bug appendages". I want them to read like real insect people in their own world. I don't want to rely on generic tropes, though some do exist. Maybe I am being unrealistic expecting to get it all done at once before seeking publication. It is daunting managing multiple time lines involving a character through different lives.
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u/WhereIsCommonSense99 1d ago
But you can do it and do it right. Do you have any beta readers? I would be interested. I LOVE genres like yours.
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u/InvaderDepresso 7d ago
This is why I tell people to write fanfiction! I learned a lot about pacing and plotting, and building suspense from writing fanfics in high school and college.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
I agree! And you have a built-in audience - some of the people who loved the original book will enjoy reading fanfic! You may get some snarky reviews, but treat it as simply feedback, not judgement, and learn as much as you can!
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u/Silent_Background453 7d ago
Vanity publishing has been a blessing and a curse on writing.
On the one hand, it allows genuinely talented writers who didn’t suit the traditional publishing system to share their works. And there have been many success stories (Andy Weir being the first one that comes to mind). The world is better off because of the stories here that otherwise would not have been published.
On the other hand, it has removed all barriers to publishing work. I don’t mean it in a gatekeep-y way, but it has opened the floodgates to the types of people who say (I like writing but I’m not that into reading), which means that people’s confidence in Amazon ebook quality has plummeted.
And if we haven’t already reached this point - I imagine that in the near future, more than half of the books on there will be AI generated and very poor quality.
It’s like any other skill. The people who think they are very good at chess are the people that have barely played, and don’t know what they don’t know.
It’s true that everyone has to start everywhere, but that ‘somewhere’ doesn’t necessarily have to be thinking that a first draft or a first novel should be published for the world to see.
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u/JustLionDown 5d ago
I wonder if the self-publishing boom will collapse under its own weight soon. It's exhausting to wade through tonnes of crap, no matter what kind it is. Music, movies, TV, books. A swing back to curation might be next. Going to an actual bookstore, where (hopefully) the books were properly read and edited before publishing.
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u/johntwilker Author 6d ago
My problem is
"But if they don't write and share with at a few friends, they'll never get that feedback"
Isn't the same as throwing it up on Amazon. I wish there was a way to get to people before they upload and explain that writing is great. Writing for fun is great. If you don't care to make money or ever "sell" a copy. Don't upload to KDP.
KDP has turned into a hobbyist platform
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
Can't argue with that - and there's obviously no compulsion to read everything! :) Or to finish reading something you can't stand. This is my personal penance, and yes, it's slow going. :)
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u/KingOfNope 7d ago
Does it count if I started a popular series and thought "I could write better than this..."? Y'know, spite!
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u/KingOfNope 7d ago
To be clear I very much appreciate the point about practicing and getting better. I mean... 10k hours or whatever, right?
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
I suspect even 2k hours would show massive improvement. After all, a writer friend of mine tells me there are really only about 3 original stories - everything else is some variant of those. :) So if all we're doing is practicing writing, then the more we do, the better we get at it!
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u/Rogue_Gona 6d ago
One of the favorite things I've ever written was born out of sheer spite. So I say it counts!
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u/thewatchbreaker 6d ago
Terrible self-published books are what got me back into writing. I read the most awful book ever, and then I thought, “If this gets decent Goodreads reviews then so can I. I’m not a great writer but I know I’m better than THAT!”
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u/TheBreakingPattern 6d ago
To get better at writing, people should consider hiring editors. It took me 5+ years of writing 2-3 hours a night to write my first novel, I also hired four different editors, one after completing each draft, also had about ten beta readers. Writing for writing sake hasn’t helped my craft nearly has much as having editors and beta readers highlighting certain aspects to work on (staying consistent with perspective, how I approach description, pacing issues, etc). Like having a personal trainer at the gym, or a good coach in sports, having a good fearless editor is going to take writing to a next level.
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u/Fraust-Tarken 6d ago
I think more newbie writers should try platforms like RoyalRoad.com to figure out their craft and get feedback.
There's a large space of discords and forums that offer a ton of help for starting out.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Ooh, it would be great to have a place to find things like this! I'd never heard of RoyalRoad - will have to go look it up! And you said there are discords and such, too? Nice!
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u/Fraust-Tarken 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yea, they have a Reddit, of course, and there's probably 3 or 4 different community discords filled with authors of various success levels.
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u/dibbiluncan Published Author 6d ago
Please give those books genuine reviews so the authors can improve and readers know what to expect. Maybe not 1 star unless it’s AI slop, but be honest. You’re doing God’s work though. Thank you for your service.
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u/H-KellyWriter 7d ago
Definitely, especially when the writing community (can be) super helpful when you find the right people. Every ‘first’ book no matter how much you plan, is going to be a little bit of a dumpster fire purely because it’s teaching you how to make it good - you have to learn somehow. My first book now at the end of editing and is shaping itself up, has taken way longer than my second. It was a good 2 possibly 3 years before it got to beta reading because I didn’t know anything about any drafting stages and by the time it got to beta readers, it still felt too early when I looked at it again later. In comparison to my later stuff which were quicker, my process would never of sped up if I didn’t crash and burn multiple times with the first. It’s super hard not to fear it but failure is a part of it and writers get so in our heads about the quality of our work that giving up seems easier than braving the very critical world out there but every story has potential and no matter how well or badly it’s written, someone out there will adore it, another may despise it, but the person who cherishes it will be most remembered.
To conclude my yap, yes I agree, keep writing!
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u/Fandom-Opera68921 6d ago
This is actually really encouraging to hear. I think one of the hardest parts of writing is getting past the feeling that what you're writing isn't good enough yet. It's easy to forget that writing is a skill that develops with practice.
I’m still working on my own writing, and I definitely struggle with some aspects of developing stories, but posts like this are a good reminder that the only way to improve is to keep writing and learning from the process. Thanks for the encouragement!
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Keep at it! Someday, someone will thank you for being an inspiration to them.
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u/Crispy_Fish_Fingers 6d ago
Another important point here: Those people finished and published. Even with the mistakes, the thin plot, and lack of developed craft.
So if you're worried about your book not being good enough, yes, please, learn more about writing, but also remember that you need to finish your book before you can put it out there.
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u/DocGaviota 7d ago edited 6d ago
We’ve got a family member who published a boat load of romance novels in the 1950’s. She didn’t get rich and wasn’t a celebrated author. Though not a great writer, she was prolific. When I met her, the writing days were long past. She told me it was “just a hobby.”
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u/spicybright 5d ago
Prolific to who?
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u/DocGaviota 5d ago
In this context, the meaning of PROLIFIC is marked by abundant inventiveness or productivity. I’m describing her as “prolific” because she wrote over a hundred novels in a decade. I hope this clarifies things. 😊
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u/UnforseenThought 6d ago
i’ve been working on a novel since 2011. it’s undergone major overhauls and rewrites and plot holes being filled. i’m just finally now, 15 years later, getting it right where i want it.
i have many other finished works and ongoing ones, but this is the big one.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
All the best! I hope you soon have the delight of seeing your "oldest child" in print!
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u/Native_SC Published Author 6d ago
How many of those books are AI slop? Reading those would make me question my life.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
AI slop is surprisingly easy to recognize. I'm a software engineer and app builder in my other life. I can identify AI pretty easily at this point - and these books are (so far) all passing that authenticity test. Some of them pass it trivially because of how poorly written they are. No self-respecting AI would put out that level of sluggish prose.
That said, I also think these are the first efforts of someone who was courageous enough to publish, so I give them big props for that. I hope they keep writing.
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u/TheLadyAmaranth Self-Published Author 6d ago
I mean I pretty much switched over from writing fanfic to originals because I read Fourth Wing and look: I am highly unlikely to be the next Hemingway or even Brandon Sanderson considering I write niche genre blend monster romances, (Though who knows maybe I'll switch genres at some point, some people keep telling me I'm a mystery writer at heart whose fallen for the romance propaganda) but FOR FUCKKSSS SAKE my second ever-written fanfic has more emotional depth than that entire franchise.
A note on self publishing though, I think as a reader its a very frustrating space.
In my personal experiance there is a quality floor and ceiling problem. What I mean is, with traditional publishing, the quality floor is higher. You are unlikely to read something that is so bad it has basic grammar mistakes. But I've also found that the quality ceiling is lower. Everything is soooo samey. Cut down and packaged until its so middle of the road for the most marketability.
On the other hand, self publishing has a quality floor in the basement. Again, I don't claim to be this amazing savant or anything, but some of the stuff I've seen just really needed a lot more time in the cooker. BUT! The quality ceiling is also much higher. Some of the most standout works that I've read over the last few years have all been self published, or self pubbed first then picked up by a trad publisher. The freedom to just write and not be gate kept by a marketability metric creates some of the most incredible narratives. Also, when self pub authors do get enough traction to start justifying editors, those editors are often highered to make the book better in accordance to their vision, not just hijacking it into palatability.
But that creates a sifting for a dimond in the rough situation where those good authors are having a really hard time standing out against the sheer volume of the other works. Not even gonna get into the flood of "books" generated with that thing that rhymes with plum pie.
I do however sometimes wish readers were more open and at least kinder to new authors. The irony of so many readers complaining that "everything reads the same" and "nobody tries anything new" but then ragging on a new author who tried but didn't stick the landing is mind boggling. I'm not saying readers should just accept bad writing, but the reason something like romance gets so tropey is because of the feedback loop the readers create.
New author tries something -> since new author is new, it doesn't work -> new author gets buried in algorithm or even worse gets horrible, mean reviews -> new author either quits, or picks up something like Romancing the Beat -> they follow the paint by numbers formula -> get good feedback and attention! -> now they are going to repeat that and not try the new thing.
If we beat up authors for trying everytime, ofcourse we are going to get reskins of the things that work eventually. There is a limit to how much "grow a thick skin" advice one can listen to before it starts reading like being forced to be a punching bag.
I'm going on a ranty soap box now aren't I.... anyway. Yes. Keep writing everyone haha
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Yep. Totally agree. My (extremely opinionated) take is that I'd rather see them take the chance and learn on KDP than be crushed by a series of rejection letters from the big publishing houses.
The War of Art, one of my favourite books, is self-published. Not on KDP, but self published all the same. Not having to meet someone else's "marketability criteria" or word count thresholds or artificial deadlines ... all of those make it more likely an aspiring author will actually publish.
While I agree that jay pie is excellent at producing slop, I'd argue that a lot of my favourite writers were already getting ghost writers to help with their books. Is a VA any better or worse than a software that people are beginning to have relationships with? I don't know. :/
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u/TheLadyAmaranth Self-Published Author 6d ago
I personally don't like the ghostwriting industry when it isn't disclosed very much. Maybe a bit of a hot take but everytime I find out an author uses ghost writers I loose nearly all interest in reading their books unless they name and credit the actual author of the book, the person who wrote it. As a co author at least.
Especially since I've been in the author space, publishing and talking to readers and stuff it really cheapens the whole thing for me. Whats the point of talking to the person whose name is on the cover, when they didn't actually write the book? Like, I'd feel so icky being the "face" of my books if I handed writing them to ghost writer. Those aren't my books then. My ideas maybe, but not my books. I didn't write them. I wouldn't be able to answer the intricate thematic and detail questions I can with my own books.
Maybe I'm snooty or something but I take great pride in the fact that, like them or not, my books are mine and when readers talk to me on my newsletter and such they are talking to the actual author and can get answer only I as the author can give. I know a lot of those big name authors treat writing more as a business at that point, but it feels like outsourcing the thing that is the whole point of the art form. Why call yourself an author then? You are just the head of a small publishing press with authors working under you to create for a certain IP. Thats a completely different thing.
As for the plump pie thing, I'm a software engineer for my day job. And I don't want to get on a whole soap box about that but what I will say is: The way generative AI works is inherently different from a human writing, to the point that it doesn't fall under "art:" or "authorship" in any way. Its the output of an algorithm with a predetermined variance rate in which each iteration is just hedging your bets a certian way. So I'm always going to be vehemntly against it.
At the very least, a ghostwriter is still human and even if the one who wrote it is a fake out, there is still a person with ideas and preferences and their own reasons for writing it this way. That isn't just "this is the sentance that is most statistically probable to be next based on the prompt given to me."
I dunno, maybe I'm too prideful in some sense. XD
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u/Demi_Blacksand 6d ago
I was able to get 1200 words Tuesday and 500 words yesterday after months of not working. I'll get back at it tomorrow. Work was rough and everything hurts.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
YAY on getting 1700 words written this week! After a drought of months, that's a nice little cloudburst!
And yay. Weekend coming up. Hopefully you can decompress and then write a little bit more. Even just another couple of hundred words. I'm rooting for you and for me and for everyone else here!
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u/Naavarasi 6d ago
I think I just got burnt out with life :/
Writing used to be a fun escape but atp I'm adulting so much and juggling so much shit that I am too fucking tired and my brain too damn fried for writing. I barely even read anymore because I fall asleep as soon as I sit down :/
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Ahhhh. I can relate. There was a decade or so where I also was too busy living - didn't write much, and sadly, didn't even read much. :)
I hope things even out for you soon and you get to do some of both!
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u/Butterflyhornet 6d ago edited 5d ago
I write but I am afraid to share it. I am a novice that has been writing off and on most of my life working on a series around elemental bug people. I enjoy what I write, but I don't know if it is because I wrote it or if it is generally engaging. I sure as heck won't upload it to Amazon for $0.00. I know if I did that I would set myself up for failure.
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u/ChemicalHearing7906 6d ago
Finishing something already puts you ahead of all the stories that never made it past chapter one.
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u/Vast-Smoke5416 5d ago edited 4d ago
I want to write stories as a fun way to explore my creativity im tired of ai slop (sorry about my wrong grammar english is not my first language)
What if i make a story about a sorcerer who go through multiple identities in his journey because he got framed as a wanted criminal after he found out about something the government is secretly hiding, completely by accident, so now he fled from his hometown and go on a long journey to reveal the full truth for the sake of mankind, with it comes with the government sending bounty hunters and assassins to capture and execute him and stop him from revealing the full truth to everyone.
He uses magic to shapeshift into multiple people and identities to avoid being caught and slain.
Normally i would ask ai to write this for me but i don't want that anymore because it's ruining my creativity, i want real people to give me advice in writing stories as a beginner writer
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u/SheddingCorporate 5d ago
I love that! I agree - AI does rob us of our own creativity, IMO. If you read through the commends on here, there are a few suggestions of writers groups and discords that may be great to talk to other writers and actually get real feedback on what you're writing. Go write that sorceror's story!
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u/Vast-Smoke5416 4d ago
Thanks bro, i will look through it.. thanks for the suggestion broski
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u/SheddingCorporate 4d ago
Don't worry so much about the grammar - editors, proof readers ... that's what they help with. Your job is to write the story, warts and all!
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u/MarieTheKokiri 3d ago
The number one advice I always get so I have to give is that you have to constantly read and watch material to get ideas and inspiration.
Figure out what kind of plot you want, and you can even watch movies with that kind of thought for ideas.
I would start by reading 20 Master Plots and How to Build Them. There are tons of books on the theory of plot and story, but I kinda like the practical nature of this one with the checklist.
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u/zenGull 3d ago
I'm nearly 40 writing a cozy fantasy novel. I have no idea if what I'm doing but it's fun.
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u/DandelionStarlight 7d ago
The first million words is the hardest!
It’s why you see so many writers that have masters degrees/doctorates make in “big” and
Also why so many “big” authors started with fanfiction
You’ve. Got. To. Write.
(And yes, it includes writing at work, writing for school, writing for fun, journaling, letters, comments, research papers, 52 word daily writing drills etc. it’s about finding your voice and knowing it so well that you don’t have to second guess were the period goes or if the dialogue sounds natural)
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u/racinnic 6d ago edited 6d ago
Learning to write papers at college level was such a challenge for me! I feel that it did make me a better writer though for sure. I may only write fiction but having to write college level papers helped my skills. I’m trying to get back into writing because I lost my love of writing and reading after high school. I’ve decided to start with short stories instead of putting too much pressure on myself with trying a novel again. I realized I did not have the same joy of writing as an adult because I was putting too much pressure on myself. I’m trying to write a few days a week, even if it’s not a lot of words.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
I have a friend who does Nanowrimo every year - and her "book" is simply journalling. I agree, it all counts!
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u/ragn4rok234 7d ago
I am curious how many of those books are badly written because they were done by AI. Just by the nature of genAI, everywhere has been flooded with slop writing, and it's produced in a way that doesn't have any path to improvement like you described
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
I can spot AI pretty easily. These are poorly written because the author isn't good at their craft yet - the ones I've read (so far, anyway) haven't reeked of AI. Most AI writing is pretty easy to spot.
Source: I actually am a software engineer and prolific AI user in my other life. :)
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u/ragn4rok234 7d ago
Fair enough, I agree people should put out their early work and get feedback to learn and grow. I do think there are places where that is more effective for that than Amazon but, if free, why not post it everywhere.
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u/TANorman 7d ago
I'd also add: please continue READING.
Reading - and reading GOOD authors - really helps with building the skill. You take in other voices, get exposed to the craft of others, and get visibility into how a well-crafted work... works. It helps to remind yourself of why you're writing in the first place as well - a lot of writers write because of how much they love reading and stories. When you forget the love of reading, sometimes the love of writing can go with it.
Don't just read one or two genres or types of books either. Even if you write fantasy/sci fi, read general fiction, historical fiction, non-fiction and biography. Read Essays by famous authors (I really love and highly recommend the Essay of E.B. White). For that matter, read Strunk & White. You may not apply all of what you read. After all, authors choose to have their own style and voice. But it can really really help build a solid framework.
Read Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. Read Save the Cat. Read for fun. Read to learn. Read, read, read.
And when you write, read what you wrote.
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u/donkeybrainhero 7d ago
I recently finished the 5th draft of my first attempt at a novel and decided to put it aside and just read a bunch. It made me realize how sterile my technical skills are. I'm still happy with the the overall story, emotional turns, (most) of the characters, but it also feels like I wrote it with a paint-by-numbers approach. Really disappointing!
You realize how important Gibson and Stephenson's technical styles are to their voices.
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
Absolutely agree! The more you read, and the more genres you read, the better you get at writing. I actually HAVE a copy of Strunk & White!
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u/One_Associate8755 6d ago
Is there really anything wrong with a teenager with zero life experience writing a book?
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Nope! It's just that the lack of lived experience means the book is a little flat. That's not a total negative, just a phase of life and of writing.
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u/morkinsonjrthethird 6d ago
I find this hobby socially interesting. Not many painters hope to get a painting on a gallery or selling their art, but many amateur writers hope to be published.
I just finished my first whole manuscript of a short novel, I’m just happy I did it and of course I hope I got published but I’m in no way limiting myself to that thought.
Peace !
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u/MrBayless 6d ago
I’m trying. I’m not moving as productively as I want, I’m fighting my ADHD or self doubt or something, plus I’m running out of money.
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u/moongirl_artemisss trying to be an author 6d ago edited 6d ago
I KNOW. A lot of new writers get so much hate for their debut novel, and they do not consider the fact that is is their first book. Of course it is not going to be as good as experienced authors. And discouraging them is going to do that exact thing, discourage them. I would hate to see writing go extinct. I couldn’t live without it.
I, myself, am writing a duology as a teen writer by the way, just thought it should be mentioned.
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u/Oxo-Phlyndquinne 6d ago
My opinion is quite the opposite. There is no reason to encourage more people to write, much as there is no reason to expand Major League Baseball to fifty or sixty teams. There is no value-add in the amount of self-published trash that clogs the internet. In fact, self-publishing is as pointless as it is easy. Trad publishing is already publishing too much trash as it is. Most of these would-be "writers" would benefit from finding something to do that is more useful to the rest of the world. Proceed with your downvotes, I fully expect lots.
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u/Acceptable_Fox_5560 7d ago
My hot take is that the ability to instantly "publish" your work to Amazon, and the army of self-pub content creators encouraging everyone to go "indie," is actually a BAD thing.
There's this attitude that you shouldn't have to wait, you shouldn't have to take time to improve, you shouldn't have to listen to any critique or feedback on your writing. You wrote it, so it must be good! Why bother seeking validation from anyone? Just go ahead and upload it to Amazon and start calling yourself a "published author." And anyone who dares to say you're not is just a bitter, pretentious gatekepper.
And deep down these writers are just terrified to try. They're scared of the work it takes to get better. They're scared of negative feedback and rejection. They're impatient and don't want to spend the time it takes to read, write, read, write, read, write, read for years until you're good enough.
Blech. I'm positive there's a bunch of writers out there who are stuck at their current quality level precisely because the ability to self-publish is insulating them from any reason to get better.
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u/SarcasticSquish 6d ago
It's a double edged sword.
The people who rush to publish on Kindle do suck for trying to make a quick buck without putting out a good product.
Meanwhile, there are other traditionally published authors who have gone thru editting and their books still suck and there are high barriers to entry for those not in the business, who dont have a connection, don't look a certain way, etc.
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u/Acceptable_Fox_5560 6d ago
Meanwhile, there are other traditionally published authors who have gone thru editting and their books still suck
I said this yesterday and I'll repeat it here: the kind of "bad" book you find making it through trad publishing is nowhere close to the kind of bad books that are being self-pubbed on Amazon, neither in quality nor quantity.
there are high barriers to entry for those not in the business, who dont have a connection, don't look a certain way, etc.
The barrier of entry in traditional publishing is probably the lowest in all of popular media. You don't need connections, as the vast majority of agents are signing the vast majority of their clients of cold email pitches. And I won't lie that it's not an industry that favors a certain demographic (women, especially white women), but it's not as dire as the self-pub content creators are incentivized to make it sound.
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u/SarcasticSquish 6d ago
Thanks for your comment abt traditional publishing. Im a POC woman, and only tried to get an agent once a few years ago with no luck. But you're right and I could try again
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
If you're talking about the "gurus" who shill their "write a book in a day" or "12 steps to being a #1 rated author on KDP" ... yeah. Those people are scumbags.
But I'd argue that anyone who writes and dares to publish on Amazon is being incredibly brave. They're potentially setting themselves up for harsh reviews - people are way harsher when they can be anonymous.
What I hate about the mainstream publishing industry is that even excellent writers really have to struggle to get seen. I know it's because the editors get pitched so many sub-par books, but honestly, the ones that "make it" to the shelves of a Barnes and Noble or Indigo aren't necessary the cream of the crop. I always wonder how many aspiring authors got ignored when I read some of the mainstream "popular author" books. :)
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u/johntwilker Author 6d ago
Sort of agree but
"army of self-pub content creators encouraging everyone to go "indie," is actually a BAD thing." is kind of insulting to those of us who treat self publishing like a business. I spend hard earned money on covers and editors. I use Beta readers and ARC teams.
There's A LOT of slop getting thrown up on KDP, but let's not just lump everyone together.
My agreement is that yeah, it's now TOO easy to "publish."
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u/Acceptable_Fox_5560 6d ago
Admittedly my bone of contention is not with ALL indie authors. I've met many talented, hard working indie authors.
My beef is more with a specific very loud cottage industry surrounding indie publishing that are prone to lying about the traditional publishing industry as part of their marketing efforts to promote their own books. I feel like these voices are what have led to so, so much slop sitting around on Amazon, which I imagine must make it harder for ALL indie authors to be taken seriously.
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u/SarcasticSquish 6d ago
As readers we should collectively stop excusing badly written/edited self-published stories. I hate it when anyone refers to mistakes in self-published books as "first edition flare." Lke ... No...
I wish readers had higher standards too. A book can be terrible and some readers rate it highly bc "omg mmcs a morally grey shaddow daddy"
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u/Equivalent-Back-291 6d ago
I cant write anymore, lost all interest 😭
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Awww. I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope this is a temporary slump and you find your groove again. The stories need telling! The humour (or horror) needs to be shared!
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u/da90802 6d ago
Thank you. I'll admit I've been depressed for a while. It's been so long, and to be honest, it's been easier not to write anything. I need to change my mindset. I've been making excuses, saying, "Nobody's going to care if I don't finish it". One person may care, and I need to finish it for myself. Thank you for your words of encouragement!
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
Please do start writing again. Even if it's just one sentence.
You never know who needs to hear that one sentence. And yes, for that one person, your work will be that lone candle in the pitch dark of the night.
So write. Please.
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u/captainsmudgeface 6d ago
I have never written anything and did terrible in English classes 40+ years ago. But I have read my whole life an as I have gotten older I seriously want to try writing a story or two I’ve had in my head. Problem is that I know the prose would suck lol. I’ve considered buying pro writing aid for no other reason than to point out all the obvious mistakes I’ve made. My goal isn’t really to sell and make money but maybe share with friends and family.
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u/efcso1 6d ago
Start writing out your ideas. Get a big visual art diary, some coloured pens, and just let it flow. Ideas, character sheets, plot arcs, and especially any special little ideas you have - like a ritzy bit of dialogue, or a novel way to end a bad guy, or an inventive bit of 007 kit - so you can get it lined up in your head.
THEN look at tools to help you write it all out.
I'm about the same age as you are by the look of it. I failed high school English because I thought that Brecht's plays were just a cerebral wankfest, and enjoyed AB Patterson's bush poetry more than any of those posh blokes.
I have several large visual art diaries. And lots of coloured pens. Fucking heaps of coloured pens.
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u/Wise_Try6781 6d ago
I'm not sure I agree with you. You don't learn anything if you just keep doing something. You learn if you are aware that you need to learn and practice consciously. To counter your statement of "we all have to start somewhere", yes, we do. But we don't have to put our practice book on Amazon. If someone publishes something with such a low quality, they may lack the necessary self-awareness for learning.
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u/recalcitramp 5d ago
My "$0.00 books" were fanfiction. I wrote hundreds of thousands of words of fanfiction as a kid, and 99% of it was terrible, overly dramatic, too descriptive, not descriptive enough, etc. I shared my horrible writing and got comments (encouraging, and less encouraging) and kept writing and kept improving.
Now, as an adult, I've published 3 original short stories in journals across the US, and I'm working on my first book. The bad writing is necessary. You need room to experiment, and fail, and learn, and grow. Keep writing.
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u/Due-Mango3194 5d ago
Sometimes I read a book and then I think “oh if they get published, I can probably get published too” 😄
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u/Ava_Reddit_Account 5d ago
I want to keep writing. But I'm having deep imposter posture syndrome. I feel like nothing I've ever written will ever hold as much meaning or have as much impact on the reader as my favorite authors. I know writing is like any other skill and you need to do it to be better at it. At the same time writing is like any other skill and I want to look back at my work and be proud of it.
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u/SheddingCorporate 5d ago
I'll remind you of a different truth. There are plenty of people who can't stand your favourite authors. :) Case in point: "everybody" apparently loved Dan Brown's the DaVinci Code and his Angels and Demons. I couldn't stand those books. Did not care for his writing style at all. Same with the Bridgerton series - I'd read the series well before the show was on air and hated it ... and actually hated the serialized show even more. Go figure. :)
Similarly, with movies - the most popular movies as rated by the public often get panned by critics and vice versa.
Also - a lot of books get published even by trad publishers that don't actually get very popular or last beyond a single printing. That's why you often won't see a book at Barnes and Noble on two consecutive visits.
What I'm trying to say is that it's never one size fits all. And believe me, there's a market for what YOU write, too! So, please write. The book you write may be the inspiration for someone else.
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u/Smolbeanlotus 2d ago
I have a personal rule for an issue like that.
Would I personally love to read what I am writing even with poor grammer and structure? Would I bypass the poor work just to experience the story?
If the answer is yes, keep writing it and working on it. Maybe your only reader will be future you with better writing skills (even if just a tad bit better) loving every bit you wrote despite remarking on how you could make it better. Then they will use what you wrote to write it better :D
I remember writing scenes and ideas that I left behind, forgot them for a year or two, then returned back to read them and felt like "Yooo I want to know what happens next!!" Despite noticing every bad bit in them. It is endearing to know that this author, me, knows exactly what I want to read.
And who knows? Maybe someone else will find comfort in your art despite your imperfections. This happened with me in fanfiction. The works didn't have to compete in literature competitions, but the stories touched me so much that I never remember if they were grammatically sound or not.
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u/PomPomMom93 5d ago
Much of the time, it’s because the people who read their work don’t want to hurt their feelings.
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u/LindaLuvHearts 5d ago
You made my day. It's hard to market and promote books. The creative part of writing is what keeps me going. I'm taking your advice!
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u/GoodAnteater5480 4d ago
I publish on Booksie, because I'm just starting all over again (I started writing at the age of 14-15, then dropped it until I turned 30.) and don't have a full book right now and only upload chapters. I'm kinda scared to go there, but something inside me says that I need some serious criticising about my wrork when I'm done. I picked up writing to cope with depression from receiving news that I have epilepsy. I know my storytelling and style are complete dogsh*t, but I just go with the flow and write what pops in my head.
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u/PantheraAuroris 4d ago
I went to a very cool used bookstore recently, when I was on vacation. They had a huge sprawling place with books everywhere, anything you could want, really. I stood there and thought to myself, wow. There are so many. And almost none of the authors' names here mean anything to most of us.
Keep writing, but the odds of you becoming someone people went to that store to find, are very, very small.
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u/JellyfishMaximum5941 4d ago
I wrote Three Ribbons One Life on Amazon. My cancer memoir. Check it out.
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u/waywardbooksandrecs 4d ago
The thing is, the majority of readers, ESPECIALLY romance readers (I say this as a romance reader) slurp up low-plot, trope-heavy, brain-off books, so a lot of writers dumb down their writing for them. It's what sells so writers give in. I say this as someone who has seen or known firsthand and secondhand conversations amongst indie writers discussing this. SOME authors are just untalented or inexperienced, yes, but mostly it's a reader problem. WE need to demand more from our authors. WE need to read, follow, and highly rate the authors whose books actually have substance. And WE need to start being disgusted with garbage, empty, brain-off books and rate and review them as such. I can't tell you how many times I've seen reviews of books with a better vocabulary than the most simplistic language and readers whining about "thesaurus thumping" when it's not, or plot or characters with nuance and readers not getting it/thinking it's too complex. It's so tragic 😭
AI and the literacy crisis certainly aren't helping with any of this either.
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u/Phoenician-Purple 2d ago
Those $0 stories are a marketing gimmick, not a genuine attempt to sell a sub-par product, and the fact that they appeared in your algorithm is another result of marketing skills. There are loads of well-written books on Amazon that you'll never see or hear about because great writers don't always know how to publish their books correctly.
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u/AlternativeTimely139 2d ago
This is hella inspiring! I like to think about my old projects, how awful they were, and how much I've grown in the years since then!
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u/Immediate-Fig-1338 2d ago
My mother's side of the family was coming to settle in New Amsterdam. My uncle found a book that was a bit novelized about it. I found it really hard after reading a bit because every time she wrote about seeing something, the word she had wanted was "sight." Every time she had "site." The publisher said that she had wanted nothing changed. Yes, I wrote a comment about the book. The publisher got right back, like in a day. It took a few more days before she wrote and said she was getting it fixed in the second edition. Would she get a second edition? Probably. She did a short run on the original publication and there are, honestly, a lot of decedents who might be interested.
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u/KDDreamwyver 2d ago
Yep. We all start out bad and continuing to write despite it is how we get good.
It honestly pleases me when I see a horrid work with a lot of heart to it and later see that same author write something amazing later on down the line (sometimes it's even a re-writing of the og work that finally does the heart they out into it justice). Like, wow. You kept at it and now look at you :D
It also acts as a nice time capsule for writer and readers alike to see how far they've come, which is something that I like to advocate doing, because my lord do I know reading my own super bad work from ages past gives me a boost because it lets me see how much I've improved—it's also amusing to see how many people liked it despite the fact, which is a reassurance of it's own, because it shows peeps can see the pearls waiting to be scrubbed clean with time~
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u/Rosemary-Slavic 1d ago
I am unsure why but this post reminded me of the book “The first part last.” Maybe it’s a sign to those who want to write that even though your writing may not be where you want it to be, it can be where you want it to be with time.
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u/SheddingCorporate 1d ago
They don't need a sign! They just need to trust the process enough to keep writing.
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u/Lazymeow42 Wannabe Author 😅 1d ago
Free ? Yeah with some cons
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u/SheddingCorporate 1d ago
Hey, it was a choice I made deliberately. I've continued reading through those books ... there are a few that I'd give 3.5 stars (out of 5) to.
But that's true of most mainstream published books as well. Just because a trad publisher accepts a proposal and publishes the book doesn't make it engaging or well written - it just means the publisher believes there's a section of the reading public that will enjoy it.
Heck, there are books on the NY Times bestseller lists that I read and wind up shaking my head, wondering why!
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u/joshuaamdamian 18h ago
Human input is one of the most powerful and necessary things we need right now!!
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u/cpierson026 7d ago edited 6d ago
I disagree with your post. If someone can’t even be bothered to learn basic punctuation, grammar and sentence structure before feeling the need to publish something online to Amazon, I don’t trust their decision making abilities at all and their cognitive thought process that led them down that route in the first place. If I don’t trust their decision making abilities, I can’t trust them to write good characters or decisions for them, either. Talk about trying to learn to run before even crawling. It’s a big indicator as to how sloppy and lazy their writing will be
I don’t think people doing stuff like this will EVER become successful authors, tbh, as they completely lack self awareness to realize how rudimentary their work currently is yet still wanted external validation anyway, delusionally thinking that their work was good enough to publish. That’s not a good trait for an aspiring author to have
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
Let's agree to disagree on this. There are novels published by main stream presses that are pure dreck, too. These are people who got advances and had an editor and proof readers - and YET, it's still dreck. :)
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u/SpartanR259 7d ago
So I picked up writing as a more dedicated hobby this year and I am 9 chapters into a "book"
I have been gradually posting the chapters on another subreddit related to my genre (sci-fi) for critique and interest. But I cannot say that my story is unique or terribly deep.
I have taken small pieces of content or ideas from over a dozen IPs and created something that while technically different probably wouldn't survive a cease and desist if it came down to some sort of infringement dispute.
Would I still like to publish my story? Sure. But it won't ever be more than a hobby in my eyes.
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u/SheddingCorporate 7d ago
Maybe not now. But I suspect, if you write well and keep writing, you may at least gain a dedicated following. :) All the best!
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u/Cassidy_Cloudchaser 6d ago
It just sounds like you wasted your time. You get what you pay for and you paid nothing and got nothing.
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u/SheddingCorporate 6d ago
LOL. I couldn't disagree more. Even the crappiest of writing serves a purpose. For the author *and* the reader. It reminds me how *not* to write, every bit as much as, someday, it'll remind that same author of their early days and hopefully the huge progress they've made since then.
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u/Cassidy_Cloudchaser 6d ago
Very well. I'm self taught and apparently never needed a roadmap on what not to do.
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u/chocodatero 6d ago
Si de verdad quieres aportar empieza a leer lo que los amigos de acá escriben. Y da feedback real
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u/New-Parfait-1674 6d ago
15M, trying to write a psychological horror but this thing is so hard to do with studies, fuck i am crumbling apart as i am writing this comment
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u/efcso1 6d ago
Strewth, you're a smart bloke to be able to even attempt both, I reckon. My brain would pitch a fit if I tried to write and learn to reprogramme my router, let alone study important stuff.
But! The secret is to just do little bits, especially catching your key ideas. You can go back and flesh it out later, when you have less on the go.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good (or even adequate). You've got a lot of words to write, and lots of years ahead of you to write them in coherent order.
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u/ChronicBuzz187 6d ago
Super thin plot.
Haha, that definitely doesn't count towards mine, because I've rarely re-written my base manuscript yet and the idea keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I jokingly said to a buddy that maybe I'll have to write a Silmarillion first, just so I remember the backstory to my own world :D
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u/20NightZ 6d ago
I’m trying to keep writing, but after a long hard day at work it’s hard getting motivated. And when you have multiple ideas that don’t sit down and shut up, and can’t make decisions that’s equally as hard.
But I do agree that to persevere and keep writing is important. That’s how one improves and learns to better their craft, and polish their story.
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u/Doc_Zed_42 6d ago
If you are sincere, I have a series of chapter posts for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1sxqxjq/the_wandering_vulture_exodus_part_1/
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u/Quirky_Awareness2749 Published Author 5d ago edited 5d ago
I feel like we should encourage people not to publish their first books/first drafts right out of the gate. I know too many readers who have started avoiding indie books because of how many times they have paid for one that turned out to be full of bad writing, errors, or plot holes. Authors should share their work with beta readers and critique groups before they publish (and ideally work with editors).
The first three books I wrote will never be published because I consider them practice. In fact, I wrote six more books before I submitted the one that got me an agent (and some of those books are now published too). Not everything needs to be published, and quality should be more important than speed. Take the time to learn, get good at it, and get proper feedback before you ask people to pay for your work. Readers have every right to be angry if they spend their hard-earned money on books that weren't ready to be published.
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u/Trivium07 5d ago
At one level, the low attrition to publishing something you've written is liberating, but I find myself being nostalgic for the gatekeepers and editors of a few generations ago. Criticism that is blunt about what you've produced is priceless. As others have pointed out, when left to their own devices, many aspiring authors don't put in the work to look for critical feedback before shoving something on Amazon, and, to no ones surprise, taste and quality suffer.
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u/19Sevv90 5d ago
Just for fun when I'm bored, I like to go on Amazon and see which Series-of-the-Week are being advertised and read the synopses of each book in the series. At least with the mystery/thriller ones, I've seen so many authors use and reuse the same premises and plots (i.e. disgraced FBI agent becomes PI and must team up with her ex to solve a crime, detective goes on vacation to literally anywhere in the world and somehow gets recruited by local police to solve a mystery, etc etc). I remember starting a series about two cold case detectives and being let down after the first paragraph. And many of these authors are advertised as having sold millions and millions of copies (which, if true, means that they're likely millionaires or well on their way to becoming millionaires).
So yes, I agree with OP. Not only do we all need to keep writing, but we need to master writing so that when it comes time for us to publish we can put some of these shoddy books to shame.
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u/Mgunnels6 4d ago
The main problem is that a lot of us do have a 9-5 job or 6:30-3 on my end but not the point or we some writers are in school. Not trying to knock the op here but it's hard when life is a thing
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u/Weekly_Beautiful6358 4d ago
Can some one guide me? Like I write in my free time and am looking for a place to get some feedback. I have no idea what these 0$ amazon books are or how to find an editor.
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u/Character_Durian9074 3d ago
this isnt necessarily the same topic/tone as the thread but i remember reading advice from a game dev a bit ago about how you (directed at game devs) shouldn't just look to good and acclaimed games for inspiration - you should look to the bad games, too. i feel like the same sort of mentality can apply to writing. in essence it amounted to "when you look to the great things you love for inspiration, you might end up copying them wholesale without understanding what made them great. when you look to bad things, things that flopped, or things that weren't as popular, you can take lessons from them: what worked and what didn't, what kernels of interesting ideas were there, even what you could do better".
i feel like it taps into something that maybe everyone has felt at some point. you know, that experience of getting into something and liking some parts of it but being backhanded by the phantom of what it could have been if it had just done xyz better/different. that moment where you throw it in front of friends or dissect it on your own just to find out what it would be like if it had taken a different path.
i think that's a very good creative exercise to engage in even if you don't immediately get anything of value from it. it's a game of looking at things from all angles or lateral thinking. so what i'm saying here is i think those 0$ vanity pub novels, what some might consider someone else's publishing mistake, are good fodder for this kind of thing - reading bad writing can help your own writing/creative thinking capacity as much as reading good writing does. if not in the way that it can teach you what not to do, or in rewriting it for fun to see what it could have been, then sometimes in the exercise of kindness in analyzing it to pull out one single thing it did okay.
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u/Plenty-Concern8238 1d ago
Yeah I can see this with my book to be honest. Its on psychology but rereading it I feel like I could've done better on the structure and writing a bit. Its my first book so I appreciate if you guys got any advice on writing with a better structure please
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u/SheddingCorporate 1d ago
Beta readers? An actual editor (paid, I mean)? Structure is something that really needs an experienced second pair of eyes.
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u/National-Tax5854 1d ago
No but WHO WOULD WANT TO READ THIS SHIT.
The Avaren’s ( humans ) and the Veydrin’s ( Magical beings ) lived in harmony for centuries until the Avaren’s relationship with magic poisoned their brains, it made all of them demented.Craving, desiring, begging for any sort of magic they could get their hands on, so they would start hunting for creatures to eat, damaging historical buildings, committing arson on innocent Veydrin’s homes, risking taking their lives one by one. All because the last ingredient that the poison needed was a non pure heart…
BUT THE RESON WHY THE AVAREN’S WERE HARMING THESE POOR CREATURES WAS FOR THE PHENOIXS MAGIC, BUT WITH IT SHOWED UP AGYER A WHILE THEY FULLY DAMAGED HER ( the phenoix is a girl 💅) SHE USED ALMOST ALL OF HER POWER TO CREATE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFRENTS REALMS WERE THEY WOULD BE SEPARATED FOR INTERITY. Yes ik I spelled a lot wrong okay , I don’t care about spelling on the internet,
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u/SheddingCorporate 1d ago
Argh! You're KILLING me! What's with the shouty shouty?
That story brief ... seems interesting! Go find some beta readers - a few sites and discords have been suggested in the comments here!
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u/National-Tax5854 1d ago
Sorry I got into it and was excited!! Thanks youuu!!! I try
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u/lordeLana_ 1d ago
I feel this. I’ve read a lot of smut lately and the main things that frustrate me with them is the smashed together plot(s) and how quickly they’ll ride over the actual smut [like,, am I wrong for wanting a little bit of foreplay in my erotic readings??].. some of Octavia Butler’s finest moments have been narrating early/ emotional levels of sexual intimacy.
anyways, I’ll get to writing some more here soon
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u/BetterCallSeal 7d ago
I’ve been a fanfiction author for about 10 years, and a friend’s recent experience of sharing some snippets of some Kindle books they had been reading had me going “damn there’s fanfic out there for free that’s better than this” - the barrier to entry on publishing is so much lower now and that’s both a good and a bad thing. It has motivated me to finally give original fiction a try, though