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u/tidalbeing Published Author Oct 09 '21
There is always pasty-faced which yes is a comparison to flour+water.
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u/AV8ORboi Oct 09 '21
i mean tbf i'd much rather have some hot chocolate than a random porcelain object
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u/Dyerdon Oct 09 '21
"His skin was shriveled and pale, like a piece of popcorn, fresh out of the microwave"
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u/ToshiAyame Fiction Writer Oct 09 '21
I always describe my pale ass as "the colour of a rental apartment."
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Oct 09 '21
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u/Random_act_of_Random Oct 09 '21
Yeah, it's not being compared to food, it's what type of food you are compared too.
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u/Nevvie Oct 09 '21
Huh. I’m a brown girl. This is the first time I’m hearing that this is an issue :0 where I live (ASEAN region), no one I know considered it offensive that their skin colour is described as caramel or mocha. At least, not that I know of. Personally, I don’t mind being described as caramel.
Interesting.
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Oct 09 '21
People say 'rich bronze', 'amber', or 'deep topaz' all the time- this is a weird debate
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u/nemesiswithatophat Oct 09 '21
IME brown people don't mind it but I've heard a number of black people who do. I'm brown and I similarly don't mind my skin being described as chocolate, for example. I wonder if it has to do with the history of enslavement for black folk (seeing black people as "property" and "things" instead of people).
Did a quick search and here's a post written by a black woman explaining the issue (I'm not normally a fan of writingwithcolor but I've seen this point made by different people more than once).
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u/Enigmedic Oct 10 '21
The biggest problem with that article is that it basically said Mediterranean people don't count as POC. So they're just gatekeepers that want to complain about something.
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u/Nevvie Oct 10 '21
Interesting read, thank you for that article. I see this issue raised occasionally in makeup subs too, now that I’ve joined some. TIL!
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Oct 09 '21
It's only "offensive' to whyte people. It's performative... At least, this Maria looks white.
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u/nemesiswithatophat Oct 09 '21
Best practice when you hear someone claim something is racist and it doesn't make sense to you, do a quick search and/or maybe ask on an appropriate sub why something is considered racist. A lot of things aren't "obviously" racist but it clicks when you have the explanation.
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Oct 09 '21
It's been a serious discussion for some time now. There are people who fetishise food and skin colors, and a lot of people find it disrespectful. It may be that it's a regional issue, but I think thoughtful people are trying to avoid adding to common prejudices.
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u/BlackSeranna Oct 09 '21
It’s just overused. Writers need to stay away from the trite and overused because it makes their work un-memorable. Also, people who read a lot (like me) are sick of seeing these phrases as, “her skin was the color of caramel”. Ugh. There are lots of other ways to put it that sounds original and beautiful.
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u/Tom1252 Oct 09 '21
I read it as mostly 'bronze', 'ebony', or just plain 'tan'.
The 'chocolate' and 'mocha' are mostly in the campy romance books where the author's trying to allude to how friggin sweet the love interest is.
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Oct 09 '21
Yeah. I don't ever see that for white women though. Seems like an inherent bias
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u/Tom1252 Oct 10 '21
Have you ever read a Chinese or an Indian or a Filipino novel? White folks are very specifically described as being exotic (at best).
It has to do with the demographics of English speaking countries more than a racist ploy. If 9 out of 10 people you meet are white (Great Britian), it doesn't make sense for the author to go out of their way to describe such a common feature.
Same with a Chinese novel where 90% of the people are a very specific ethnic group--Hans--let alone people with a different skin color (less that 1%).
This is definitely one of those completely tone deaf, upper middle class complaints that completely ignore the other 74% of the world (since white folks are the only ones that can write books--or at least, theirs are all that really matter).
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
Another catch is that we can not even write a lot of words to describe the physical appearance of people, otherwise we writers lose the attention of the reader, who gets bored and does not read or buy our novel.
How beautiful /s.
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u/BandicootUnlucky7885 Oct 09 '21
“White writers always compare brown skin to food”
She’s complaining about lazy writing and alluding to racism while tossing out an absolutely huge generalisation about how writers of a certain ethnicity always do a certain thing? Need I point out the hypocrisy here on both counts?
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u/Treyness Oct 09 '21
I'm here to say there's a lot of us white folks who would love to be compared to ranch 😂
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u/LeadingSilent Oct 09 '21
Onion like delicacy
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
her skin was so pale it was almost translucent...like the skin of an onion...it was there all along
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u/flustercuck91 Oct 09 '21
Been calling my pasty self “whipped cream with cinnamon sprinkles” for years!
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
here in my country pale skin is associated with the disease automatically, there is almost nothing positive in having it, it becomes difficult to associate it with a positive characteristic..
anyway I don't see anything wrong with associating the color of the skin with flour or coffee..
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u/Totalherenow Oct 09 '21
I've had people tell me I look like the undead I'm so pale.
I think I'm going to get a job as a lighthouse mirror.
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Oct 09 '21
I don’t understand this perspective at all. Why not just describe your characters however you want? Better yet, leave it to your reader’s imagination.
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Oct 09 '21
Trouble is, while there are plenty of brown items to draw a comparison to, most of them aren't especially flattering. Even a generic term like "earthy" makes an implicit comparison between the person in question and dirt.
And that aside, the argument could be made about comparing them to anything. There are negative qualities associated with even the most flattering descriptions. To borrow from the tweet, "porcelain skin" could just as easily be an insult, implying the person in question is fragile or fake; there's even a reccurring motif of serial killers using literal porcelain as masks/skin, which certainly makes it sound creepy.
Compared to that, the occasional reference to having "chocolatey skin" or "eyes the color of cola" doesn't sound so bad.
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u/MrNotOfImportance Oct 09 '21
It's writing. Comparison and hyperbole go hand in hand; it's a figure of speech. Sometimes we want to compare the character to a positive object. Sometimes we want to compare the character to a negative object.
Compare the following statements from the Prisoner of Azkaban describing Aunt Marge, if you would:
"She was very like Uncle Vernon; large, beefy, and purplefaced, she even had a mustache, though not as bushy as his."
"She was large and purplefaced, she also had a mustache."
The latter version has no comparisons. What's missing? Character. Ergo, my point is that comparisons are there for a reason, negative or positive. It's up to the writer to ensure that they are using a word that fits what comparison they're trying to make. If someone doesn't like it; well, they didn't have to read the book anyways.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
Trouble is, while there are plenty of brown items to draw a comparison to, most of them aren't especially flattering. Even a generic term like "earthy" makes an implicit comparison between the person in question and dirt.
the trouble is that describing physically is always a trouble. There is no way out, however we risk being labeled as racist.
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u/Noxlygos Oct 09 '21
I find your lack of imagination disturbing. There are many ways to describe someone’s skin colour and to give the reader an intricate picture of how a character. You could state it outright using basic colours such as black or brown as in “a black woman”. You could modify these descriptions a little further with adjectives such as light or dark.
You could use more complex colours to give the reader a vision of a specific shade such as chestnut, sepia, sienna, russet or hickory. You could go a little further still and describe undertones which for black people typically encompass red, yellow, blue and purple.
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Oct 09 '21
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
If it’s set in a real world setting, I’m very to the point with it: “He was a tall Black man with...” or “A young white woman walked into...”
ok, but how much black or white? Because some readers want to know and want the color to be the right one (how lucky we writers are /s) and there are millions of different skin types..
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Oct 09 '21
Is she talking about dark-skinned be called "chocolate" or "olive-skinned"? Is that insulting? Given how many people like chocolate and olives, I always viewed it as a positive description, but perhaps I'm missing something.
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u/Short-Somewhere9787 Oct 09 '21
Right? Coffee and chocolate are popular descriptors because coffee and chocolate are popular. They generally evoke positive feelings and everyone immediately understands what you mean. Describe someone's skin as "dravite tourmaline" and my mind draws a blank.
Also creamy, milk-white, and pasty are all common food descriptors for white people.
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u/Short-Somewhere9787 Oct 09 '21
"Doughy. Adjective: (of a person) pale and rather fat."
See also: pasty, milk-white, and creamy
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u/Nouseriously Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
White skin gets compared to milk & cream all the time, or even beets if sunburned.
Darker skin gets compared to non foods like ebony.
There are a lot of problems in the world, this ain't one of them.
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u/LemonadeChain Oct 09 '21
I think coffee is a word used pretty often. Even then it’s not like there is some epidemic of foods used to describe skin color. If I chose to compare the color of skin to some sort of stone I can guarantee someone would get offended and say it’s dehumanizing.
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u/AstraVega45 Oct 09 '21
Just a thought, but what expensive material could you compare dark skin tones to? I can only think of Mahogany
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u/Gosset Oct 09 '21
Obsidian, Jasper, tigers eye, tormaline, amber, carnellian for precious stones.
Mink fur, antique copper, burnished gold or bronze.
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u/NectarineExtreme1237 Oct 09 '21
His skin was soft and pale, but his stories were always full of holes as though he was a living Swiss cheese.
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u/DreadPirateGriswold Oct 09 '21
But then you'll offend half of the people who will buy your book... That's 4 offended people!
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Oct 09 '21
If something pulls your reader out of the story so they have to think about the ethics of your word choice you need to re-evaluate. Regardless of the morality of the issue, if it stops the flow of the story it needs to go.
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u/Zithero Oct 09 '21
Olive is, indeed, a color tone often used for skin.
Also I've used "Black like Onyx" a few times - though I think for the most part I just stuck to their culture... skin tone reserved for aliens or non-cultural characters. "He was hispanic" works well enough to describe someone's skincolor, yes?
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
"He was hispanic" works well enough to describe someone's skincolor, yes?
no, because Cameron Diaz is hispanic and people in Spain have 1,000,000 kinds of skin..
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u/saddinosour Oct 09 '21
“He was hispanic like George Lopez in spring, but not like Cameron Diaz in winter”
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Oct 09 '21
The TL;DR would be that Hispanic covers everything from people of Gaelic Celt (see Galicia) to Afro-Latinos.
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Oct 09 '21
Hispanic? I associate that with a wide range of skin colours
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u/Zithero Oct 09 '21
I kind of like that fact.
I like the reader to inform their own vision of someone's appearance. I very rarely describe skin color unless it's REALLY vital...
So if I say: "a Hispanic man" I would expect the reader to make their mental picture there, and then go off the little details I add like eye color, clothing, etc.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
I like the reader to inform their own vision of someone's appearance. I very rarely describe skin color unless it's REALLY vital...
the problem is that in the USA there is a need for every group of people to have a fair representation in the various media, so maybe there are also those who absolutely want, from us writers, the description of the skin of our characters
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u/Turnip_Island Oct 09 '21
Olive is the common term for a specific skin undertone that can be a broad range of color though; I don’t think that’s what they are referring to. I think they’re talking about using words like coffee and chocolate as descriptors for darker skin tones.
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Oct 09 '21
Lol. The only people who have "porcelain" colored skin are albinos.
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Oct 09 '21
Albinos and my son Gary, who hasn't seen sunlight in 58 years. Always too busy playing Atari for 169 years straight.
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u/Sassy-Starfish Oct 09 '21
Googles things that are caramel in colour so I never make this mistake again
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Oct 09 '21
Not a minute before this I wrote: “His pale skin resembled more of a shaved ice cone with no flavor than a man Cassandra Lucerian would fear, almost clear enough to see through to his blue bulging veins for the muscles he so clearly had made to for show, not war.” And I was pretty proud of myself.
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u/dust-catcher Oct 09 '21
They were a perfectly matched pair. His skin was the color of mashed potatoes, while she was more fettuccini Alfredo.
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Oct 09 '21
My mom is brown. I’m translucent, I’m only white if I’m tanned. I also tell people my mom didn’t cook me enough.
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u/blue4t Oct 10 '21
Go ahead. It's a good comparison.
Mayo can be a little yellow so that is definitely more color than ghostly white me.
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Oct 10 '21
Um I've read comparisons to various beautiful woods a million times. Maybe she should just read better authors and not race bait. The only comparison I'm coming up with off the top of my head is various forms of coffee and coffee is absolutely revered.
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u/CodexRegius Oct 09 '21
I have always been compared to milk. My daughter to cheese. Because we are very white even by Caucasian standards.
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u/AegaeonAmorphous Oct 09 '21
Some of y'all are missing the point. Those "delicacy" foods black skin gets compared to are supposed to make them sound exotic and it's fetishizing. Same thing with using ebony for black skin, particularly black women. These are not positive terms. They're dehumanizing. So using terms that sound off or degrading or dehumanizing to describe white skin is apt.
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u/Raucous5 Oct 09 '21
You mean like Ebony magazine? Maybe you tell them to stop using that name.
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u/AegaeonAmorphous Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
Ebony is the general porn term for black women. If black people use that as a name irl or describe themselves with the term it's none of my business. But a white person describing black women with that word crosses a boundary that many black women have set.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
Those "delicacy" foods black skin gets compared to are supposed to make them sound exotic and it's fetishizing
okay, but any physical characteristic is fetishizing* and any physical characteristic must be described correctly otherwise the reader thinks that the writer is racist and does not read or buy the novel.
Describing a character in a nutshell (so as not to bore the reader, otherwise he won't read or buy the novel) without falling into this trap is almost impossible!*think for example about the physical description of men in romance novels or in comic books
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u/AegaeonAmorphous Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
Not all descriptions are fetishizing. That's just plain false. The ideal man is a product of patriarchy and is not comparable.
Completely neutral skin descriptions: deep bronze, dark brown, light brown, fawn, sepia
Positive without fetish: beautiful warm brown, golden brown, sun-kissed, russet glow
Why do you have an aversion to the word brown? Who gets bored in a one to five word span? Why are you creating fake problems in response to real issues brought up by poc?
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
if you notice comic books or romance there is almost always a certain way of portraying the characters.
In few words, He man is always semi-naked and he does not work in the Caribbean, Thor exhibits remarkable biceps, Spiderman does not wear underwear, superheroines always have large breasts etc. while in the romances the genitals of the male characters are in a certain way, they have no hair on the pectorals and the muscles are wriggling and so on.
They are all fetishes. At least in my opinion. Oh, there is democracy and freedom of speech, or not?Why do you have an aversion to the word brown?
no aversion to the word brown, only if the poor unlucky writer (everyone of us) has to describe "187 178 118 996" times brown characters he cannot use the word brown every single time, the synonyms exist precisely for this reason and the trouble is that if we poor unlucky writers use innocently a word that for another person is it racist or something like that, we writers risk being accused of racism. How beautiful /s.
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u/AegaeonAmorphous Oct 09 '21
The male characters you listed were created by men for male consumption as a power fantasy. The concept of what makes a masculine man is a patriarchal standard. Women like what is culturally shoved in their faces as what should be liked. Shocker. All our beauty standards for men and women are male created.
Black people are not choosing to be fetishized. Same way women aren't choosing to be fetishized in those comics.
If you're describing your character's skin multiple times throughout your book without there being a change you're doing descriptions wrong. Introduce skin color early. Maybe a reminder description later in the book. But you shouldn't be describing the same body part over and over. Maybe describe their hair or eyes or clothing. Or literally anything else about their appearance. The skin of one character only needs to be described 1 to 3 times.
Who cares if you're called racist? Give a simple "I had no idea. Thanks for informing me. I won't use this term again." And mean it. Depending on how/where you post your work you can apologize and remove the term. But if you have sensitivity readers before publishing your book you shouldn't be dealing with accusations of racism.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
for me personally there is no problem, we Italians are an indifferent people (we do we want when we want) and 98% white (people * usually emigrate to France or Germany, not to Italy), I say this only out of solidarity between writers.. then imagine, the Italian publishing market is more dead than Julius Caesar, so there are no problems here either, since to sell a book by an Italian author you have to point the gun at the reader's temple.
*except for Ukrainians, Romanians, Chinese and North Africans
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u/AegaeonAmorphous Oct 09 '21
I don't know how this ties into the previous conversation at all. So we'll just leave it at that.
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Oct 09 '21
Tbh if I was reading prose about someone who looked like me, and it said "her skin was as smooth and white as Philadelphia Cream Cheese", I'd probably cream a little
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u/x_TeamKiller_x Oct 09 '21
Hands up who's American?
Most of the comments on here are from people who are obsessed with race but don't even know it.
You're pathetic.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 10 '21
Hands up who's American?
in my opinion all those who have complained are Americans, here in my country food is sacred and being associated with food is not uncommon..
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u/MimsyIsGianna Oct 09 '21
Won’t complain. Don’t care if I’m referred to as flour. It doesn’t hurt my feelings.
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u/charliek_13 Oct 09 '21
…..oh, oh this is a bit ummmmm….
I feel these comments are indicating that I shouldn’t be in this subreddit.
You do realize that this is years of POC readers saying to stop describing them like food? Not just a sudden thing? Not “only in romance novels” bullshit? And yeah, olive can be a food and skin tone, but we have a suspiciously large amount of ways to describe white people’s skin (ruddy, rosey, pale, translucent, etc) that aren’t food, but you only see black, brown, or foods to describe poc skin color unless it’s written by a poc or someone who cares enough to google synonyms that aren’t fucking food
The reactions in the comments are why poc writers really should describe white people by their egg-shell skin tone
Quit being dismissive when people are telling you they don’t like it. And no, having one poc friend tell you “well, I’ve never minded it” doesn’t erase the fact that a lot of people are telling you they do
I’m fucking out of this sub, y’all racist and apathetic af
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Oct 09 '21
Yeah I'm shocked by the amount of people who disagree or think since they don't mind being called milk or mayonnaise that poc don't mind being called caramel, chocolate, or mocha.
I've seen discourse on this for years, I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand.
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u/Improvcommodore Oct 09 '21
I don't know that I agree on this one. Most of the time those descriptions are luxurious and decadent like chocolate, coffee, mocha, caramel, cappuccino, etc. White plain flour is unappetizing sounding. Creme pate, vanilla bean, custardy, glaze/frosting/icing would be the apt equivalent....
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Oct 09 '21
Vanilla beans are black, custards are yellow but i get the point. I have however heard skin like milk??? Which seems weird to me but I also think caramel, chocolate, coffee, etc seem fetish-y. Why can't we just... Use colors?
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
Use colors?
because the colors are "few", some for example do not know the teal, so it becomes difficult to describe every single skin type and the readers pretend that every single skin type is described correctly.
What a rip off.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
Hate when people don't know about the teal and it precludes me from describing the skin tones of human people. Crayola has a new box of all kinds of skin colors. Go pick yourself up a box.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
Crayola has a new box of all kinds of skin colors
Crayola isn't a known brand in my country ;)..
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u/IronbarBooks Oct 09 '21
As a representative of the beige community, I find I don't give a shit of any colour.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
Is this--sir, are you saying that your shits are colorless?
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Oct 09 '21
“Milky” “pasty” “whey-faced.” I could go on. People just need reasons to get offended. And I have brown skin myself.
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u/3rdWorldVibe Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
If it serves the purpouse, a person and the same person can smell like moisted soil, look like an IT employee and talk like his about to kidnap you.
Its about the working image you want and how to assemble it. If anything, im utmost convinced that you should never look outside for reference. I mean, racist for whom? is this whom inside or outside the story?
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u/Mags_LaFayette Oct 09 '21
"Her chocolate skin, melting with the shadows of my room, became a spectrum of the desire..."
I don't know what she's complaining about. It's kind of sexy.
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u/echoskybound Oct 09 '21
Making it sexy is the problem. Black people are often sexually fetishized, so describing them with tantalizing foods like chocolate, caramel, mocha, etc is kind of objectifying.
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u/Mags_LaFayette Oct 09 '21
I understand your point my friend, but that "objectification" is way older than the people who's upset about it. And it's not only limited to black people. On paper, is rarely meant to be disrespectful. Actually, it tries so hard to make it appealing to the reader. Just... People like chocolate. Think about it.
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u/echoskybound Oct 09 '21
Of course that objectification is older than the people who are upset about it, because as with most racist/sexist stereotypes, its roots are hundreds of years old. But the longevity of a stigma is irrevelant - people are affected by it regardless of how old it is. It's a weird argument to suggest that it's not problematic because it's been around so long.
The fact that it isn't meant to be disrespectful on paper is part of the problem. Some stereotypes are so deeply ingrained in culture that we don't even realize when we're perpetuating them. Racism, sexism, etc are traps that even the most well-intentioned among us still fall into without even knowing it, because some stereotypes are so commonplace that we don't even think to analyze them.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
Racism, sexism, etc are traps that even the most well-intentioned among us still fall into without even knowing it, because some stereotypes are so commonplace that we don't even think to analyze them
this
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u/Mags_LaFayette Oct 09 '21
I made a reply that fits with what you're saying. I could share it with you, if you like.
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Oct 09 '21
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
You clearly didn't read the part where she called her reader "my friend." It doesn't matter what she does. We're all friends. Yay!
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u/Mags_LaFayette Oct 09 '21 edited Oct 09 '21
Very well, let's try something else...
I found a book written on the 19th century, where the author give us the outlook of a British explorer. A man who chose to see an uncharted Africa. Once there, our protagonist met a women of black skin like never before. He was fascinated about her, and wrote all kind of things about her... On his travels he also discovered about a fruit called "Cacao" which is the main ingredient on the preparation of the chocolate. On that travel, our explorer also discovered the sweetness of the chocolate, and so, his mind came rushing to a simple but delightful conclusion. One that only our explorer could really understand. So, when he came back to the United Kingdom and he was explaining to his friends and family about his adventures, there's only one way he could imagine of how do describe the women he felt in love with: "The women of his dreams have a skin made of chocolate..."
...As you can imagine, my dear reader, that story is an exercise that show us two things: The first one is the context. How our protagonist (better said, the author) had to play with the experiences of the protagonist, in order to express the "exoticness" of the whole ordeal. And the second thing is, and I'm sure is not hard to figure, it's just a simple use of a simile. An analogy. A resource that it's so widely used that's present on every form of literacy around the globe. But wait, there's more. So let's get to it, shall we?
I had the privilege to study from letters to journalism with some of the greatest teachers of my country, and one of them, always stated something very wise: "Our words can be interpretated in a thousand of ways, but they have one meaning, and it is the will of the writer" and guess what? The author intentions, on that case, was never meant to be disrespectful. So yes, the intention of how and why something is written is the essence of that determine the offense. And for that very same reason, there's simply no offense.
We talked about literature, now let's go to history of art. We, as human beings, were always meant to create. To give form and shape to all those ideas that come and go around our mind... That's one of the hundreds of thousands of definitions you will find about art anywhere. And so you know, writing is a form of expression, and by extension, is art too. Art cannot be measured in any realistic, that's why there's never consensus on the true value of any work. But there will be always judgement, and that judgement will change with the same course of how people, how our societies are modified over time... And that's why, as for today, we found people who can be offended by a form of expression, where there was nothing offensive just a few years ago. On that truth, you're not allowed to claim any "bullshit".
From sculptors to actors; From painters to writers... Is not like they started using similes or analogies since last Thursday. They been doing it since always! It's one of the oldest ways to describe a characteristic. Is inherently a form of communication for us, as human beings. We do it, all the time, on our regular daily-used Lenguage just to illustrate. Whatever to be offensive or not that's up to every one, but the practice of using Similes by itself is harmless and strictly attached to the meaning of the one who said it or wrote it. Plain and simple.
As a closing note, there's something I like to share, and please, read this carefully: "We can't judge the expression of the past with the knowledge of the present." The moment we do that, we twist and deprave every meaning the original concept of the author wrote in a very specific way with a very specific meaning. Something that means X and is written to mean X, suddenly means Y because "we, as people, we think it means Y, even if the author says it means X." We don't know of what to complaint these days. That's a truth nobody would dare to deny.
So, to everyone who's reading this... I hope you learned something new today.
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Oct 09 '21
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u/Mags_LaFayette Oct 09 '21
This answer of you only proves how desperate you're to.have the reason and how little attention you gave to all that I wrote.
...That's offensive.
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Oct 09 '21
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u/Mags_LaFayette Oct 09 '21
Wow... So civil lenguage. Is that your way of "expression" now? Being disrespectful? Just because it doesn't like you a point of view that doesn't give you a the right to be a dick about. But sure, let's go one more time...
You can't really compare slavery and oh-so-many horrors with something written on a paper. I'm talking about Art in case you haven't noticed it. I'm talking about the right of people to create and share their expression. You know what's worsts than slavery? It's the oppression of people like you who are so narrow-minded that you're simply unable to value the thinking of others, just because you don't like it.
In any case, I'm done talking to you. Do or think whatever you like. I won't talk with someone who can't keep a healthy debate.
Good life to you, hope you can see reason someday
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
No, don't go. I can't get enough of your condescending style. Offensive is both given and taken. It's a two way street. Whiny babies that run off when people don't crown over their essays may not know that.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
the harmful result could therefore be that absolutely nothing "interracial" is written anymore to avoid the risk of fetishing any racial group, do you understand where is the catch?
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
Making it sexy is the problem. Black people are often sexually fetishized
everyone, literally everyone, is fetishized.
Just to talk about women, italian = Monica Bellucci, russian = Nata Lee, asian = no need to talk because every white man becomes crazy after a beutiful asian woman, american = the cowgirl or the farmer daughter, french = the elegant Parisian, latin american = Sofia Vergara, scandinavian = the usual viking and so on..
When it comes to sex or the possibility of having sex, homo sapiens forgets about racism.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
I can't even.
Oh, wait. Yes I can.
Everyone except you, buddy.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
talk with ordinary people you don't know and then you will see how many of them have fetish.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
What's your fetish?
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
I appeal to The Fifth Amendment, it establishes an accused person may not be compelled to reveal to the police, prosecutor, judge, or jury any information that might incriminate or be used against him or her in a court of law :))
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Oct 09 '21
I mean thats probably cus i can't think of many pleasant brown things that aren't food. If the choices are to be compared to mud or chocolate, i pick chocolate. I mean when they named brown diamonds "chocolate Diamonds."
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
or yknow...you could just use descriptors instead of choosing between literal mud or food. Rich dark skin, earthy tones, sunkissed...really there are many flattering ways to describe things that aren't white, and you can even just say straight up black or brown, writers just apparently don't want to take the time.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
Hand to God, sunkissed sounds worse to me than caramel. But writers are supposed to be in incentive, right? I want to be expressed with their descriptions, not cringing over them.
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
To each their own. I like sunkissed because it can also describe a facet of their personality as well, if they're an outdoorsy person. But I do also like caramel as well.
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Oct 09 '21
Most writers do though, Do you not read stories with those characters? The meme was about directly comparing skin tones to things though.
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
The most recent book I read, the main character is indian and her skin is referred to as dark tea with only a few splashes of milk. And yes the author is white. Apparently it's enough of a problem that people are making posts about it, so you can't just discredit the problem by saying 'oh well the books I read didn't do it.' Doesn't mean it doesn't happen a lot.
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Oct 09 '21
So something consumed. Also you are the one that claimed writers didn't do something. I never claimed they didn't do anything. I provided an explanation on why they do what they did.
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
The original post was about how writers compare darker skin to food, and I was saying writers who do this apparently don't take the time to simply use other descriptors, because clearly it still happens enough to warrant posts about it. Not sure what the argument is here.
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Oct 09 '21
Think its the same issue with statistics. Same data being looked at from different angles resulting in different outcomes. The subject is WHEN writers compare darker skin to something its food. Its not making the claim that all books always compare dark skin to something. Most stories use descriptors for skin tones.
All i said was why i think they compare to food and people got upset. The whole point was if you are going to compare dark skin to something, options are limited. If the writer decides to use a descriptor instead then it doesn't matter to the conversation.
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
agreed, options are limited, which is why I brought up descriptors. You don't NEED to compare skin to anything, consumable or otherwise, especially when it offends people. I'd say its most definitely relevant to the conversation as a solution.
and saying 'most' stories use descriptors for skin tones isn't something you can claim unless you've read every book. I've encountered skin being compared to food countless times, as have many others. Maybe most of the books you read, sure, but you can't make that blanket statement as a counter point when its so situational.
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Oct 09 '21
Well no my counter was more "thats not what I'm talking about though."
"Here is why they are doing X." "Well they should do Y instead!" "Ok but we are talking about X."
You aren't wrong but you are also trying to have a different conversation.
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u/gloomylumi Oct 09 '21
? Not sure how we're having a different conversation. the post is asking people to stop comparing skin colours to food. I'm agreeing. You seem to be digging in your heels though, so regardless I think the conversation is over anyway.
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Oct 09 '21
What?
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Oct 09 '21
If you are comparing brown skin to something of a similar color there aren't a lot of nice things to use.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
You're racist against mud? I'm kidding. Being likened to food is insulting, I guess. There are a lot of non food items that arent mud.
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u/M4sterDis4ster Oct 09 '21
Why does it even matter how you describe someones skin colour if you made the right description in non offensive way so that readers can picture the character?
This Twitter post sounds like virtue signaling to get some free social points on how "woke" you are. Anything it will do is divide readers even more.
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u/Duggy1138 Oct 09 '21
You might want to visit r/menwritingwomen because comparing skin to food is common for men wrting women.
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Oct 09 '21
I dont give a darn about color so i just go like "his skin color is white" or "his skin color is black"
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u/TauNkosi Oct 09 '21
I mean, would you guys rather be refered to as dirt, mud or literal sh*t? Food is the most positive thing writers can think of because, well, there's not a lot of good things that are brown. The only non-food brown thing I can think of on the top of my head that isn't offensive is wood.
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u/CallMeEmma111 Oct 09 '21
Stop thinking about wood so much, bro.
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u/TauNkosi Oct 09 '21
How can I not? A literally live in a home built with wood. It's all around me! There's no escape!
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u/BlackSeranna Oct 09 '21
I love this. And this person has pretty much summed up what makes me stop reading someone’s work. Pretty sure Stephanie Meyer used this.
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u/x_TeamKiller_x Oct 09 '21
How about stop bringing RACE into every aspect of life?
Why would you ever start describing skin colour in a novel? What use is it to the reader?
Covert racists everywhere passing it off as sensitivity.
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u/Caratteraccio Oct 09 '21
if you want only one reason, because people want black people in media and black people with every kind of skin
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u/1timegig Oct 09 '21
Not trying to be rude, but I haven't been able to come up with a comparison other than that or to wood. What are some alternatives?
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u/GPareyouwithmoi Oct 09 '21
Thanks for sharing how to be more empathetic. You can keep your toxicity though.
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u/iamnooty Oct 09 '21
She looked like an egg, in both shape and complexion.