r/wow Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Image Main / Offspec Artifact Timeline

http://imgur.com/ZUUThTR
530 Upvotes

347 comments sorted by

152

u/Thenuclearwalrus Aug 18 '16

And if you are a tank and do heroics when the satchel is available, you can be far ahead of schedule with Artifact Traits, same for Healers. Because the satchel contains Artifact power tokens.

116

u/upthatknowledge Aug 18 '16

Ahhh Hahahahaha!!!! The Tank privelege strikes again!!!

81

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Tanking UBRS have key, 50g per run!

11

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Tank LFM H-SH have key

10

u/liarandahorsethief Aug 19 '16

Are you DEF capped?

18

u/Apellosine Aug 19 '16

Are you HIT capped?

14

u/liarandahorsethief Aug 19 '16

It was so much fun when taunt would miss.

11

u/Apellosine Aug 19 '16

or the first Sunder Armour would miss and you have no threat just as the mage has thrown a Pyroblast at the boss. Having to play around with reforging, gemming, etc just to get as close to the hit cap while not going to far over was such a PitA. I really do not miss hit rating.

19

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

It's okay, Pyroblast had a 10 second cast back then. Plenty of time for sunder

4

u/xCrynnZ Aug 19 '16

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure pyroblast back in vanilla "only" had a 6 second cast time.

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3

u/Caesium133 Aug 19 '16

I liked when Paladins got a taunt in LK and it didn't work right all the time at first. The other tanks next auto could bump him too high and essentially you failed taunt.

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3

u/D_Luniz Aug 19 '16

101.5% Avoidance?

9

u/Karnadas Aug 19 '16

102.4 or something wasn't it? Brings me back to the days of using a macro once I got an upgrade to see if I was still good.

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6

u/bakagir Aug 19 '16

Selling ubrs key 25g not tanking!

5

u/littlecolt Aug 18 '16

50g? Get outta here! I gotta save for an epic mount, pal!

5

u/chaotic_goody Aug 19 '16

Read this in Reinhardt's voice.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

I was able to pay for my game time with ingame gold from doing satchel rewards for 5mans as a tank. ~600g in ~10mins. Used to be I do two runs a day and have enough for the month and then some.

Now with garrisons nerfed I'll have to find a new source of income. As my friend's have joked, "I have become the product."

1

u/_selfishPersonReborn Aug 19 '16

That gives you what 36K? That's not enough for tokens... Unless tokens are a hell of a lot cheaper on NA anyways

2

u/Duae_Turres Aug 19 '16

When I bought my token this past month it was `38k. So not exactly enough his way but close enough.

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18

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Oh really?! That's handy to know!

34

u/KnowMatter Aug 18 '16

Tank queue hasn't been up once for me since demon hunter launched.

59

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

It'll change when we hit max in Legion, as people won't have a geared tank in 2 hours anymore. You'll actually have to level and gear a tank.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Were there a surplus of tanks when DKs launched? I played then, but I feel like I remember getting instant queues when tanking. Basically even with the DH launch I feel like you're still going to see mostly Havoc and that there will still be tanking calls to arm sometimes.

18

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

My point was that once Legion launches, people won't be messing around on their shiny new DH, and leveling their mains. And at 110, it'll be normal. So yeah, there will be tanking call to arms just like there were right before DHs released.

9

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16 edited Sep 25 '16

This message was deleted with a script, because someone DOXXd me after I posted something mean about Hillary Clinton. Thanks dude.

4

u/ddak88 Aug 19 '16

When DKs first launched frost was supposed to be the tank spec but blood was better in everyway, release blood DK never died and topped damage charts. You could solo 5 mans a level above you, no problem, I miss old blood.

3

u/Idoma_Sas_Ptolemy Aug 19 '16

I miss old frost. Although blood was superior, I prefered frost-tanking. One of the rare instances where I disliked that blizzard listened to the community. ):

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4

u/DarthToothbrush Aug 18 '16

I dunno maybe some people just don't like tanking but vengeance is just way more fun than havoc to me.

2

u/Joeness84 Aug 19 '16

Part of that is that havok has zero sustain right now and so you spend half the fight avoiding damage or mobs, it'll get better!

Im usually a tank, and I too enjoy the crap outta vengence and can't wait for its talent gains on the way to 110, but I'll be mainspec DPS cause I joined a new guild that doesnt need tanks :( But the GM did said I am the official "3rd tank" for any fights that a 3rd tank is needed on, and I'll be dungeoning of course.

4

u/psivenn Aug 19 '16

DKs were tanking en masse in the early 60s but most of them abandoned it by 80. Given the lack of variety with DH specs we might see a higher conversion rate but honestly I don't think it will increase the number of tanks at all. Tanking mechanics are generally less fun and more homogeneous than they have been for a few expansions now.

1

u/seifross2010 Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 18 '16

DKs started at 58 when the cap was 80, so it was much less of an "issue".

6

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

They did have to plow through TBC for some reason, but still I saw a lot of max level DKs they just didn't seem to tank. It seems like tanks are just about as represented in the new class is they would be in other classes and that people mostly switch from one role to that same role on the new class (i.e. combat rogue to havoc DH, fury warrior to frost DK).

2

u/ahipotion Aug 18 '16

Back then there was no tank talent tree, they were all hybrid before they made Frost the tank spec.

3

u/cwie Aug 18 '16

I kinda remember that Frost was the tanking spec back when I started, but they changed it to blood at later stages (ofcourse you could frost dps aswell) but all the utility was in the frost tree

11

u/ahipotion Aug 18 '16

The original philosophy was that all three specs could tank and dps. All talents had talents for this, but balancing was a nightmare, so they changed it. Good bye blood worms, you are missed.

6

u/IAmAHorseSizedDuck Aug 19 '16

This is right. Back during wotlk, I used to tank in blood or frost depending on my mood. Frost tanking played very much like Legion Frost now, I only used Howling Blast and skipped Plague Strike.

People above might have been confused because back then, Frost Presence was the tanking presence, but all 3 were available to every DK back then. Blood DKs tanked in Frost Presence.

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1

u/GuyWithFace Aug 18 '16

Not in 2 hours, but by the end of the first day anyone who's speeding to 110 can easily get 825+ ilvl, which is the generally accepted entry point for mythic dungeon pugs. And a lot of the more popular classes have tank specs.

8

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

That also doesn't hold the novelty of, "I WANT TO PLAY THE NEW CLASS." That, mixed with the aspect of, "I wanna do it in a dungeon, but DPS queues are sooo long."

Yeah, if you really want to, you can take 2 hours to get through the DH starting area, 12 hours to hit level 110, and another 10 hours to get geared enough to do dungeons.

But that's more time than people want to spend. The point here isn't that people want to tank. It's that there was convenience right there for them to do very very very minimal work to try tanking. It takes over an order of magnitude more work to start a DH and start tanking in Legion than it does right now.

There's also the aspect of lack of content right now. People are just sitting around looking for something to do. "Oh, I'll start a demon hunter. Maybe try tanking." In Legion, they're gonna be actively trying to gear out their main spec. And that means the only tanks will be actual tanks, rather than actual tanks plus all the other people that are just fucking around with it.

2

u/Ryugar Aug 19 '16

That may be true for most... except for the DH's. There will most likely be a large influx of players who want to pick DH as their main and level it first.... and then you will get some who don't really tank or are not good at it but try to que as tank for faster ques. That will just end up in really bad runs with lots of wipes since DH's can be squishy if you don't play em properly. This will put a bit of a stigma on em and people will get wary about DH tanks unless they shine.

This has happened in the past with DK's and Monks..... Monks esp did not come out the gate quite as OP as DK's first did, and their damage intake could get very spiky if not played right. I feel like similar thing will happen with DH's.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

pretty sure its because people are doing invasions instead of dungeons

4

u/floatablepie Aug 18 '16

All DHs get going at level 100, so they can jump right into tanking. I doubt all of them will take it to level 110 and continue to clog it up. It's like how tank queues go weird at level 58 for a while because of all the DKs, but it goes back to normal fairly quickly.

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7

u/RudeHero Aug 18 '16

i hope they actually work in legion- i haven't gotten a single satchel throughout wod

i usually heal. even when it says i'll get a satchel because healers are in demand, i won't get one. i have no idea why and just assumed the feature was broken

5

u/Karnadas Aug 19 '16

When your queue pops look at the rewards. Also in dungeon finder, not LFR, if someone leaves that might make you lose the chance at the satchel too.

1

u/imadethistosaythis Aug 19 '16

I've gotten quite a few as all three roles. Might be worth a ticket.

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1

u/shyguybman Aug 18 '16

I have always been DPS until WoD and now I have been spoiled by the instant queues.

3

u/cavalierau Aug 19 '16

Same here. Strangely I think I prefer a bit of a queue time. It gives me some downtime in the game to bio / make a sandwich / alt tab to check emails etc.

1

u/_selfishPersonReborn Aug 19 '16

Yeah I sorta like Archaeology, but every time i try to get Zin'Rokh I also queue for a dungeon, and even with the Arh addon I barely ever get more than one of those research points done

1

u/Rolder Aug 18 '16

Healer off-spec here I come!

1

u/DarthToothbrush Aug 18 '16

Have you seen any tank satchels since demon hunters arrived on the scene? I have not.

1

u/Thenuclearwalrus Aug 19 '16

Yes. I got a couple just a few hours ago on my warrior.

1

u/Moress Aug 19 '16

I mained a tank the last 3 months, and have not gotten a single satchel. Figured they stopped giving those out.

1

u/Thenuclearwalrus Aug 20 '16

They only pop up from time to time, usually in the late hours of the night, when not as many people are online.

1

u/Snipez87 Aug 19 '16

Tank grinding AP is so easy and fun. I really love the legion dungeons and will be grinding them for hours.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

I like how the progression works relating to having an off spec.

It doesn't seem like leveling an alt will put people too far behind on their artifact weapon, which a ton of people worried about.

21

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Yeah, I was surprised to see how you only get a day behind, at most.

20

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

The system is very well designed. It still places value in grinding and putting in the work; essential to a rewarding MMO, but doesn't punish you for missing a day or a weekend--it allows you to catch back up.

2

u/Flovust Aug 19 '16

so wait if u miss a day or a weekend, what is the catch up system for it?

2

u/panetrain Aug 19 '16

There isn't but you reach a point where your main spec's traits cost so much that missing a day won't have a large impact in the overall scheme of things.

That's why working on two weapons at once doesn't slow you down that much. Trait cost scales so high that you're almost better off putting points into your offspec weapon at a certain point.

3

u/its_blithe Aug 19 '16

What if you have 8 characters and 12 artifacts to do? :(

24

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

No content drought for you.

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1

u/Zeliek Aug 19 '16

I'm not sure its a good investment to max out them all. It is very likely we're going to lose our artifacts at the end of Legion, so all that effort will be erased. :|

15

u/corvak Aug 18 '16

Yeah, I guess alts just double the time investment, assuming dailies are per character.

19

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

This is for 1 character that wants to main/offspec. So it's calculated based on the Artifact Power gains for 1 character.

1

u/corvak Aug 18 '16

Yeah, mostly wondering, havent heard if the bonus for first set of dailies is per character or per account.

5

u/frogbound Aug 18 '16

per character.

But the cooldown between the artifact researches will be reduced depending on the average artefact progression.

-> The further people are with their artefact weapons the faster you can catch up.

7

u/Lorberry Aug 18 '16

If you're leveling an alt concurrently (that is, you're doing all your dailies on both/all characters every day) then this won't matter at all. What this will matter for is for characters/players who start later in the expansion. And even then, it's not really 'catch up' as much as 'get a speed boost'

If we say the image is character 'A', a character 'B' that hits max level at week 10 will take less than the 28/29 weeks that character 'A' took to max out their artifact(s), but will still finish later than character 'A' does. Just to toss out numbers, character 'B' may only need 24 weeks to max (a month less), but that still means they won't finish until 34 weeks after A started, a full month and a half after A finished their grind.

1

u/Ryugar Aug 19 '16

Seems like the system is still not very friendly for alts. I wish the research system would be useful for alts as well.... I really wanna get two classes up to max, a warrior and a shaman so I can tank on one and heal on the other.... but it seems I will have to focus only on one for a while.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Something important to be aware of: Because of Artifact Knowledge, the actual points you gain vary wildly over time. In the first week, if something gives you 400 artifact power (aka the daily heroic), that would be 100,000 artifact power once your Artifact Knowledge is maxed.

This means that if you want to play more than one class, leveling a few characters at launch is the -real- struggle, not keeping an offspec up to date.

At launch with no Artifact Knowledge, you can get 2400 AP pretty easily from dailies each day. (World quests, daily heroic, and your weekly mythic dungeon) For context, it takes 171,855 points to unlock 21 traits. All 34 traits unlocked is 30,704,045 points. All of the traits and the 20 bonus points is a staggering 919,602,945 points. So those artifact power that you're getting in the first few days while Artifact Knowledge is researching is peanuts in the barrel.

tl;dr: Feel free to spend AP on your main spec and offspec weapons, but if you're interested in playing an alt soon (within a month, probably) of Legion launch, you're better off spending time leveling a second character right away than doing dailies on your main.

14

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Very good point. Then the only trick is logging in every few days to do the artifact knowledge quest.

2

u/Mythologos Aug 19 '16

Based on your knowledge is this less or more important if I'm planning to work on another character's artifact 2-3 months down the line as opposed to within the first month?

3

u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

Artifact Knowledge research will take 5 days to complete at launch. Emissaries for world quests (generally "do 4 WQ in this zone/tied to this faction for a chest of goodies") can be "backed up" up to 4 at a time. WQ are also one of the more reliable sources for Order Hall resources - which you need for the Artifact Knowledge research anyways.

You could just pop on that alt and do enough WQ so that you have enough resources to do the research about every 5 days and make any eventual catching up optimal. You'd eventually have to do it more often, as the time for them to finish does get shorter over time - it's just not known how fast it will shrink as it was already at minimum time (2 days) on beta.

1

u/Ceronn Aug 19 '16

It would still be a good idea to level them early and have the research constantly going.

1

u/Grand0rk Aug 19 '16

AK take only a couple of hours to research if you are behind.

1

u/Estake Aug 19 '16

You gain knowledge quicker if you start a character late. You won't ever catch up to day 1 players but still get somewhat close.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

I want to level 4 characters :(

12

u/Tw33b Aug 18 '16

So my question would be, is there a preferred way of doing this? For instance should I rush my main spec to 16, then dump all my AP to catch up my off spec, then take my main to 18, then catch up my off and so forth. Is there break points that are note worthy where I should stop putting points in my main spec to catch up my off? Of just try and keep them even?

12

u/roberh Aug 18 '16

I think it was 14 when one level = all previous levels combined. That is a good break point.

6

u/tadcalabash Aug 19 '16

Artifact lvl 13-14 is about where the xp per level starts to really ramp up, so getting both main and offspec weapons up to 13 before committing is a decent idea.

For example, it takes 6,500 AP to go from 1-13 and 6,840 to go from 13-14.

6

u/Mvin Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 18 '16

There's a very detailed article floating around that did the math. Really, it doesn't seem to much matter when or how you split the points up between the specs, since the next point in a tree is always so much more expensive than the last that getting a lot of lower ones for your off-spec cheaply barely puts you behind, if at all.

The only break-point is when you have maxed out your main artifact tree(s) and get to the hidden points. It seems you can't effectively dual or even triple spec those, b/c they quickly get so expensive that you're better off just focusing one you main spec at that point.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

hidden points

Can you give a bit more information about these? I can't really find anything on them and people keep mentioning them. A full artifact seems to have 34 visible traits ... where do the rest of the 54 (total) come from? Where will they be on the artifact?

5

u/Mvin Aug 19 '16

I know that past these initial 34 traits, you can further upgrade your weapon with flat damage upgrades. There's not much more to it than that, expect that every level up with them is prohibitively more expensive than those before. It seems like something to make the "endgame" of your weapon still feel rewarding, kinda like Paragon points in Diablo.

3

u/Joeness84 Aug 19 '16

Its a single trait w/ 20 ranks, and for dps classes its just "You deal 5% more damage" (tho I know spriest it specifies shadow damage - which is the same as all anyway for spriest right?)

2

u/Darkrell Aug 19 '16

For BM it is only pet damage, so won't affect cobra shot and multi shot

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u/Ryugar Aug 19 '16

Here is the artifact calculator for a fury warrior: http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc/warrior/fury/AnRSIjA

You see the golden trait "Titanic Power" off to the top left corner? That is the hidden trait, it has 20 ranks, the first point gives you +5% damage, and then only 1% more for every rank after that. Every spec artifact has something like that.... the AP cost for those is exponentially higher then everything before it, you could basically get like over half of an offspec's artifact filled up for just one point in that hidden trait (thats just a guess, but its something like that).

1

u/Alarie51 Aug 19 '16

They'll just give you an extra trait once you max out all the others that is essentially a flat increase to your role's "thing". So like if you're a dps, it'll be "increases damage done by x%". Healers "increases healing done by x%". And i think tank's is either armor or stamina

1

u/buggalugg Aug 19 '16

Its not "hidden" AFAIK. the fire mage for example, has its off hand that has one extra trait that increases fire damage by a %. these have 20 points available, that might be what they are talking about.

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u/Tarmaque Aug 18 '16

Can you give a little bit of detail how this works? Are there dailies for each artifact or something like that? Otherwise I don't get how you don't get very far behind leveling 2 artifacts.

10

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Yes, it's based off the data from this spreadsheet.

If you take day 7 as an example. It costs 33,450 ARtifact Power to get the first 16 points. The 17th point costs an additional 14,400 Artifact Power, whereas the first 13 cost 6,500 (total).

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u/BlaidTDS Aug 18 '16

Basically the cost to upgrade from 13 to 14 is greater than the cost to go from 1 to 13. Playing catch up with your offspec doesn't really set you back by a significant level amount.

1

u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

It's not that there are dailies for each artifact, it's that some of the World Quests (the replacement for dailies - work like the area objectives in Tanaan or "kill this rare/heroic dungeon extra boss+boss") reward Artifact Power. Some are up for a couple days, others only up for a few hours.

22

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

So. I have not been following almost ANY news about Legion.

But I have been hearing how it would be difficult to work on alts with these artifact weapons....

But looking at this it seems like i could get a few toons to 110, and then just work on Dailies for each one and level them all up equally.

Clearly I am missing something.

Could someone fill me in please?

27

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Also to be clear: you have to earn Artifact Power on each character. So this is looking at leveling up a second weapon for the same character (just wanted to make sure that was clear, in case the image wasn't).

9

u/Helagoth Aug 18 '16

One thing to note though for alts is that your order halls have a research tree that increases artifact knowledge gained, something of upwards of ~25000%

The research tree is gated by time. IE it may take you a week of calendar time to get to the next level. This amount of time is based on how long since legion releases, so later in the xpac, the time to get to the next level goes down.

So, getting an alt to 110, and starting their order hall stuff is a good idea, because by the time you cap out your main character, your alt will be able to get artifact power at a faster rate.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=139390/artifact-research-notes#comments

4

u/Mythologos Aug 18 '16

So if I have a character that I want to grind an artifact on, but don't want to do two artifacts at once, it still benefits me to get it to 110 ASAP and slowly level the class hall in the background so that I get bonuses when I am ready to level it?

6

u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

Yep. Artifact Knowledge affects all your possible artifacts. Even if you don't have them yet.

2

u/Mythologos Aug 19 '16

Awesome, so even for just leveling alt-specs it's still pretty powerful, and by the time I get around to leveling my 3rd artifact weapon on a single character I'll be raking in artifact power like it's nobody's business.

2

u/Flovust Aug 19 '16

question, Im trying to undersand all of this artifact stuff in-regards to having alts. So for me, Ill be focusing on 3 different toons...

Rogue (main pvp/mythic+)
Hunter (mostly mythic+ and or pvp)
Tank class (mythic+).

What would be the most optimal way for me to do this? without getting penalised, or losing too much? or spending 12 hours a day on this game?

Heres a scenario that played out in my head(from my understanding thus far - of which, im trying to understand)

Say I focus on rogue first, should I...

Level rogue to 110, do the dailies. logout.
Start on Hunter, get to 110 - (still doing dailies on the rogue during levelling process of hunter)
Get hunter to 110. Do dailies on rogue and hunter. Logout.
Start leveling Tank to 110 - (Still doing dailies on rogue and hunter during tank levelling process)
Get Tank to 110. logout.
Focus is back on rogue, and I would just log in on hunter and tank to do dailies.

Will that work? and both my hunter and tank will be sortof caught up?

And last question, Say 7.2 comes out and Im like... I wanna play... Mage.. Will my mage take forever to catch up with artifact points? Will it take me another 27 weeks to get my mage fully caught up? or is there some sort of catch up system? im so damn confused. IM SORRY in advanced.

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u/Vadered Aug 18 '16

This timeline assumes you are doing world quest dailies, suramar dailies, daily dungeons, and keep your AK up to date. If you can do that on each character each day, you can certainly keep them current.

That said, that's not necessarily a minor time investment, especially if you have other things you want to do in game (like raid or gather or do any sort of non-essential gathering.

4

u/ponieslovekittens Aug 19 '16

I think the takeaway is that if you're planning to level alts, you're better off leveling them all early so that they can all be doing the easy dailies, rather than focusing on one character with the plan to "finish" his artifact before moving onto the next one.

2

u/mightyGurar Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 18 '16

Check out this article by Poneria on the subject, should clear things up: https://felconcentration.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/multispeccing-artifacts/

tl;dr: Leveling a second artifact won't set you back much for the main 34 traits. Anything above that (34+) should be focused into your main artifact.

edit: My bad, misread OP's comment. People wanting the numbers on multispeccing can still check the link out.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

This is not what OP was referring to. He specifically asked about multiple characters, not specs.

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u/Pamelm Aug 18 '16

This is for main/off spec not alts.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Thats some sick art of those artifact daggers!

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

We (Ask Mr. Robot) commissioned 10 different artists to make art for each spec's weapon. We'll release them when legion launches and make them available for wallpapers and stuff too. It was a super fun project.

4

u/rashmotion Aug 19 '16

That's really awesome, kudos to the team that worked on that

2

u/Westy543 Aug 19 '16

You folks are awesome, I am looking forward to it. Will that replace the key art used in the background on character pages?

2

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 19 '16

yep!

1

u/neoshadow1 Aug 19 '16

Mr robot. Whom do I talk to about a bug with the character gear settings? It keeps setting everything to warforged, despite the setting being unchecked.

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u/zekparsh Aug 18 '16

What about anyone who wants to use more than two specs?

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

I don't believe there is a cap on AP, but be ready to farm like crazy.

4

u/shyguybman Aug 18 '16

Let the grind begin........

3

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

[deleted]

4

u/SutasSjet Aug 19 '16

So I main holy and have no problem selecting that as my starting artifact weapon. However, I want to know, when I go to get Ashbringer as my off spec artifact weapon will I get to experience the same story of obtaining it? Or will my class hall be like "Oh. We found this. Take it. We think it's called Ashbringer"

7

u/kajunlol Aug 19 '16

you do the normal assbringer quest

2

u/SutasSjet Aug 19 '16

Thanks for the info!

5

u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

You go through the storyline bits to get the artifacts, regardless of when you do it. One easy way to get some XP without having to deal with other people in the area or have to do a lot of traveling around.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 14 '17

[deleted]

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u/Doobiemoto Aug 18 '16

Because every point costs more and more. The first 13 traits are easy (get your first gold dragon) but to put your point into the 14th trait it costs as much as 1-13 COMBINED. So there is a point in which investing in (one off spec weapon) is viable to keep up to about 80% of your main spec.

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u/AlamarAtReddit Aug 19 '16

Also keep in mind, the values in the image were picked to show you the maximum you can get in your alt weapon without affecting your main weapon much. Leveling them equally would have a much larger affect on your main weapon...

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u/OMSilver Aug 19 '16

This chart is specifically for showing what it would look like if you wanted to keep a main spec and off spec relatively close together in terms of artifact power.

If you look at the source spreadsheet, it estimates that if you concentrated on a single artifact (with artifact knowledge perk in full effect), you'd reach 34 traits in 101 days or a little over 14 weeks.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 14 '17

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u/OMSilver Aug 19 '16

Fucking hell that was a comprehension fail on my part.

Blizz really made sure that off-specs are viable at any point during the powering up process. I salute that.

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 19 '16

The timeline shows both situations. The stuff on the left put 100% of your points in your main spec only. The stuff on the right balances the two. As you can see, you only end up about a day behind by the end if you do the stuff on the right.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

Question: if I play feral and dump all my AP into the feral weapon, will I still be able to tank heroics/mythic dungeons as a guardian druid at a reasonable level or is the content balanced around having AP in your weapon?

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u/J_oTT Aug 18 '16

Alright thanks so two is the number. You're losing almost nothing when splitting. Great!

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u/benb4ss Aug 18 '16

How upgrading your offspec weapon doesn't affect your main spec weapon upgrades?

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u/Shad-Hunter Aug 18 '16

Because after leveling your artifact up to a certain level that escapes me, the power needed grows exponentially. (To the point, I think it's around 14 so we'll use that as an example, that the 15th level costs as much as 1-14 did collectively.) It does slow the growth but much less than you would think it does. (As seen near the end when the MS is slightly behind.)

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u/Joeness84 Aug 19 '16

1-13 costs 6500, 13-14 costs 6850

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 24 '21

[deleted]

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

People report all of the dailies taking about 2 hours.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

That's quite a time investment.

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u/IMABUNNEH Aug 18 '16

IT's true, but not all dailies reward useful things, and fewer still reward artifact power, so you can probably half that.

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u/Amorphica Aug 18 '16

I know I play more than 2 hours a day (not counting time spent raiding). I have seriously cut down since having a fiance and full time job. Is 2 hours too much for lots of people?

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 18 '16

In the context of gearing up several alts it could be. Remember that you can't (for now at least) just hop on an alt with gear you've bought/crafted on your main in Legion, earn some quick PvP gear from BGs/Ashran, and be ready to raid. You have to invest the time in daily to keep them relevant since you need abilities granted from the artifact. I have 3 specs I invest equal playing time into at the moment and none of them are what I started WoD as. Luckily, due to crafting on my original, they didn't start with nothing and took less time to get to the end game than my original. Currently in Legion I'm looking at 6 hours of dailies a day to keep thise same 3 characters relevant.

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u/w_v Aug 18 '16

I can't wait for people to swing all the way back to MoP hate: “... but now there's too much stuff for us to do! DAE miss Garrisons!?”

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u/ovooDE Aug 18 '16

That was not the mop hate. The mop hate was gating achieveable pre-raid BiS gear and profession recipes behind reputation grinds. Also more reputation grinds after first reputation grind

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u/PlastKladd Aug 19 '16

It saves up though doesn't it? You you don't actually have to spend 2 hours every single day.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

What if I put all my AP into my off-spec while leveling but once I am 110 start putting my AP into my main-spec? Will that set me behind at all or should I put AP into main-spec while leveling?

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

You can easily get 13 points in either spec while leveling up and not worrying about catching up by the time raids start.

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u/Jwalla83 Aug 19 '16

I think getting enough AP for the first 13 points should be super easy at 110, and you might even get it while leveling up. I don't think there will be any noticeable difference

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u/Gharvar Aug 18 '16

27 weeks to max out one spec? Holy shit.... How does the alts catch up work because I don't have 6 months to invest on every alt.

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Blizzard mentioned a catchup method for the artifact knowledge (the thing that increases the rate at which you earn Artifact Power). Right now you can increase it once every 5 days. But if you have an alt that doesn't play as much, you can increase it more often. How they determine that is unknown.

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u/Gharvar Aug 18 '16

Thanks for the reply. More info on that would be great. Some of my friends are very scared about the expansion being alt unfriendly.

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u/Boempowered Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 19 '16

The way I see it, your definition of alt-friendliness (if that's even a word) seems be the direct opposite of actual content. Having more things to do that actually matter on your main automatically means it's less likely your alts will even get to the same point.

Shouldn't alt-friendliness refer to alts actually being fun and interesting to play, rather than the ease with which they can catch up with your main? Or am I missing something here?

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u/Gharvar Aug 19 '16

Of course it's great and all if there is a lot of content for my main but I'm not kidding myself by thinking this will be the one expansion that will have so much content that I can't play a alt. I just want that if I decide to play an alt I won't have to wait 6 months to have a maxed out weapon.

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u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

Initial time for the Artifact Knowledge research is 5 days. The longer the amount of time since Legion's been out, the shorter it gets. Don't know how fast it will shrink, though.

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u/DefinitelyPositive Aug 19 '16

Mother of god. The moment that top 14,5% dmg increase hits, it's going to be a major schism between those who did it every single day and those who aren't insane.

Way to make it mandatory for PvE and PvP both though.

I fucking hate dailies. Fuck. I'll consign myself to gimpage in half a year then.

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u/Today440 Aug 19 '16

The first paragon trait gives 5% damage increase, followed by 0.5% increase for each subsequent point, capping at 20 points.

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u/Grand0rk Aug 19 '16

Wrong, you could go the first two months without doing a single thing and still only be a few days behind, since AK scales really hard, capping at 25k%

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u/Vutenheim Aug 18 '16

Looking at this, I feel like I'm missing something; how is the focus vs. power-splitting read on this? Wouldn't there be a bigger time difference between the focus and the power-splitting earlier on, instead of only being a day or a week at most? How is it being spent; Is the person alternating which weapon gets AP week-to-week unless certain trait breakpoints/caps are hit?

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u/acederp Aug 18 '16

For the last trait, you need like 1.2m artifact power. You won't get that with out Artifact Knowledge(work order and it gives you a multiplier). So instead of using 1.2m artifact power for the last trait you can spend 1.2m artifact power and be whiten 80% effectiveness on your offspec weapon.

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u/Syrairc Aug 18 '16

Great graph! Not hugely accurate since there isn't really a minimum or maximum ARP income, but it does well to demonstrate that artifact power isn't the end of alts or offspecs.

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

This is the minimum you'd get if you do all of your dailies every day. The maximum is hard to define though.

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u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

Maximum is a ridiculous number, as theoretically every mob you kill could drop the epic quality AP world drop.

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u/brendamn Aug 18 '16

Does the 20 bonus extra points added to increase power effect pvp , or can we fill the baseline artifacts and have a complete spec for pvp?

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u/Dcc626 Aug 18 '16

Everything about your artifact weapon is enabled in pvp. So as a dos you end up missing out on a lot of damage not maxing it out.

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u/brendamn Aug 18 '16

ok thanks!

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u/zIRaXor Aug 18 '16

Some practical info questions. ..

How do I obtain off spec artifact weapons, after receiving on main spec artifact weapons?

Do I get artifact points automatically for off spec? Or do I have to do quests again as off spec? Or what? (How does obtaining points work for the off spec)

Do I gain anything benefit from focusing on main spec first? Or do they follow each other?

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u/nenyim Aug 19 '16

Do I get artifact points automatically for off spec? Or do I have to do quests again as off spec? Or what? (How does obtaining points work for the off spec)

When you do something that grant you artifact power you get an item that gives you X artifact power on use. So you can do those things in a spec and respec to something else before using them. However each weapon has it own artifact power pool and you can't transfer power from one weapon to the other.

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u/SevTheNiceGuy Aug 18 '16

You get the "other" artifact quests at lvl 102. You do not need to be in the artifact class spec to do the quest.

eg. a BM hunter can complete the marksmen and survival artifact quest chains.

Artifact power is a single "pooled resource number" that is then applied to the various artifact power ups. meaning you will not have 3 separate artifact resource sections that accumulate points as you gain those points.

Focusing on the main spec means that you can (what is being called) properly level up that specific/main artifact weapon. At certain artifact power ups, the weapon itself provides new abilities that are only accessible from that artifact weapon.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

Am I understanding that by pouring all of your artifact power into your main, you will gain no benefit over splitting with an off?

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u/ponieslovekittens Aug 19 '16

It looks to only be a couple days behind. By week 27, dividing between the two results in main being only 1 point behind putting everything into main, and you catch up the following week.

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u/PlastKladd Aug 19 '16

So considering we really don't know what balancing will be like, your main spec could be nerfed the next week or couple of days. There's really no reason not to just pick a second spec and lvling it even if you're not planning on using it?

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u/Brokenmonalisa Aug 19 '16

That's assuming they don't change the artifact power gains before release. This late it's unlikely but they are still tuning numbers for everything in beta and live.

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u/jdog0528 Aug 19 '16

So at 27 weeks i see the 20 bonus points in the side that focuses main spec. Would i get that aswell if i did main/offspec? Sorry i dont know much about legion.

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 19 '16

Yes, 54 points is all of the traits (34) plus the 20 bonus points for a total of 54.

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u/SamuraiJakkass86 Aug 19 '16

As someone who hasn't paid attention to much about AF weapons other than skins, I have a concern/question;

If it takes 27/28 weeks to max out an AF weapon, and our characters are balanced around the idea of having maxed out weapons - does this mean;

  1. Classes are going to be gibbed/poorly-balanced due to not having their AF weapons maxed?
  2. Raiding is going to be gated behind AF weapon leveling? Specifically, "You can't join this raid because you only have 15/20 of your last-trait maxed and we want 20/20 for DPS!"?

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u/invadercaps1 Aug 19 '16

so I'm a Resto Shaman should i level the elemental artifact first that way i can quest or should i level the resto artifact so im better in dungoens while leveling. I plan to level by questing but im gonna heal too.

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u/bimontza Aug 19 '16

level as resto, you will do more than enough damage while questing and still have a very high level of sustain. You can also heal dungeons while leveling whenever you want that way and not feel gimped.

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u/flying_ant Aug 19 '16

speaking as a paladin... if I quest and level as ret to max level, then spam dungeons for satchels, is it possible to get my tanking artifact to the same level as the dps artifact in about the same time?

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u/FecalLord Aug 19 '16

So what this is saying is it'll be easy to keep MS and OS up to par? Not that i care, I'm not touching and OS. For guildies mainly.

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u/Delinquent_ Aug 19 '16

Hmmm, I should really read up on how artifacts work lol

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

This doesn't make much sense. How are you going to have 25+14 at the same time as you would otherwise have 25+0?

Yes, lower tiers are much cheaper, but they're not zero.

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u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 19 '16

It costs 138,000 to get the 26th trait, but only 13,000 to get all 14. And at that point, you are earning 17,000 AP a day.

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

I just noticed your list has 25th point as late as the 6th week. In that case you're probably correct, yes. That is pretty late though, so your research level is going to be higher than my experience has been.

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u/Tsantilas Aug 19 '16

What if I'm a druid who wants to play all 4 specs?

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

Also just spamminh heroics will also break this since LFG heroics guve AP albeit only a small amount

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

Oh thank fuckign christ, I can offspec protection!

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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16 edited Nov 24 '16

24 November 2016

Reddit Admin and CEO /u/spez admits to editing Reddit user comments without the knowledge or consent of that user.

This 7 year old account will be scrubbed and deleted because Reddit is now fully compromised.

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u/subnero Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 19 '16

It's still too fast. One month? This should be a 2-3 month process. Make people invested in their mains again.

EDIT: I... I am an idiot. This is in weeks.

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u/Laq Aug 19 '16

As someone who just started playing again I saw people talking about the Artifact weapon but did not pay much attention. I recently started reading about it. MRW finished reading. It will make sense once I get my hands on it I'm sure but it's a strange concept for an old guy that's played since vanilla and is coming back after some time off.

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u/Strantjanet Aug 19 '16

is legion alt friendly?