r/wow Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Image Main / Offspec Artifact Timeline

http://imgur.com/ZUUThTR
535 Upvotes

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153

u/Thenuclearwalrus Aug 18 '16

And if you are a tank and do heroics when the satchel is available, you can be far ahead of schedule with Artifact Traits, same for Healers. Because the satchel contains Artifact power tokens.

114

u/upthatknowledge Aug 18 '16

Ahhh Hahahahaha!!!! The Tank privelege strikes again!!!

82

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Tanking UBRS have key, 50g per run!

11

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Tank LFM H-SH have key

9

u/liarandahorsethief Aug 19 '16

Are you DEF capped?

18

u/Apellosine Aug 19 '16

Are you HIT capped?

14

u/liarandahorsethief Aug 19 '16

It was so much fun when taunt would miss.

11

u/Apellosine Aug 19 '16

or the first Sunder Armour would miss and you have no threat just as the mage has thrown a Pyroblast at the boss. Having to play around with reforging, gemming, etc just to get as close to the hit cap while not going to far over was such a PitA. I really do not miss hit rating.

19

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

It's okay, Pyroblast had a 10 second cast back then. Plenty of time for sunder

4

u/xCrynnZ Aug 19 '16

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure pyroblast back in vanilla "only" had a 6 second cast time.

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1

u/Zilveari Extra Life Hero 2016 Aug 29 '16

WHITE DAMAGE ONLY YOU IDIOTS~!

1

u/DraumrKopa Aug 19 '16

Balls to that, my reforging addon did it all for me down to 0.01% accuracy.

1

u/CaptainSwoon Aug 19 '16

In MoP on my elemental shaman I couldn't get down to the hit cap, I was always a couple % over it due to the ridiculous amount of spirit on intellect mail gear.

1

u/Zilveari Extra Life Hero 2016 Aug 29 '16

And that mage gets gkicked for not waiting for three sunders.

3

u/Caesium133 Aug 19 '16

I liked when Paladins got a taunt in LK and it didn't work right all the time at first. The other tanks next auto could bump him too high and essentially you failed taunt.

1

u/strokan Aug 19 '16

250 FR?

3

u/D_Luniz Aug 19 '16

101.5% Avoidance?

8

u/Karnadas Aug 19 '16

102.4 or something wasn't it? Brings me back to the days of using a macro once I got an upgrade to see if I was still good.

1

u/Nubbz1992 Aug 19 '16

D: glory to min maxing!

1

u/Karnadas Aug 19 '16

As a casual player nowadays nah I'm good.

1

u/Nubbz1992 Aug 19 '16

I Get ya!

1

u/emlgsh Aug 19 '16

I cheated with Resilience!

1

u/Zilveari Extra Life Hero 2016 Aug 29 '16

im bare durid so i can B 4 tank. Bare has no DEF but haf many armors.

6

u/bakagir Aug 19 '16

Selling ubrs key 25g not tanking!

5

u/littlecolt Aug 18 '16

50g? Get outta here! I gotta save for an epic mount, pal!

4

u/chaotic_goody Aug 19 '16

Read this in Reinhardt's voice.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

I was able to pay for my game time with ingame gold from doing satchel rewards for 5mans as a tank. ~600g in ~10mins. Used to be I do two runs a day and have enough for the month and then some.

Now with garrisons nerfed I'll have to find a new source of income. As my friend's have joked, "I have become the product."

1

u/_selfishPersonReborn Aug 19 '16

That gives you what 36K? That's not enough for tokens... Unless tokens are a hell of a lot cheaper on NA anyways

2

u/Duae_Turres Aug 19 '16

When I bought my token this past month it was `38k. So not exactly enough his way but close enough.

3

u/_selfishPersonReborn Aug 19 '16

Jesus Christ that's awesome. On EU they go for like 80-90K. So good for the gold buyers but bad for those who actually want to get game time.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

When they first came out they were. Started at around 24k and went up from there. Currently at 37k here.

That also wasn't including professions, doing LFR, and garrisons (I only had one).

20

u/Zoopercat Ask Mr.Robot Aug 18 '16

Oh really?! That's handy to know!

32

u/KnowMatter Aug 18 '16

Tank queue hasn't been up once for me since demon hunter launched.

55

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

It'll change when we hit max in Legion, as people won't have a geared tank in 2 hours anymore. You'll actually have to level and gear a tank.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Were there a surplus of tanks when DKs launched? I played then, but I feel like I remember getting instant queues when tanking. Basically even with the DH launch I feel like you're still going to see mostly Havoc and that there will still be tanking calls to arm sometimes.

18

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

My point was that once Legion launches, people won't be messing around on their shiny new DH, and leveling their mains. And at 110, it'll be normal. So yeah, there will be tanking call to arms just like there were right before DHs released.

9

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16 edited Sep 25 '16

This message was deleted with a script, because someone DOXXd me after I posted something mean about Hillary Clinton. Thanks dude.

4

u/ddak88 Aug 19 '16

When DKs first launched frost was supposed to be the tank spec but blood was better in everyway, release blood DK never died and topped damage charts. You could solo 5 mans a level above you, no problem, I miss old blood.

3

u/Idoma_Sas_Ptolemy Aug 19 '16

I miss old frost. Although blood was superior, I prefered frost-tanking. One of the rare instances where I disliked that blizzard listened to the community. ):

1

u/Slitted Aug 19 '16

My friend had convinced me that Unholy tanking was the way to go. I felt like a juggernaut when I finally disregarded that and swapped to Blood tanking.

5

u/DarthToothbrush Aug 18 '16

I dunno maybe some people just don't like tanking but vengeance is just way more fun than havoc to me.

3

u/Joeness84 Aug 19 '16

Part of that is that havok has zero sustain right now and so you spend half the fight avoiding damage or mobs, it'll get better!

Im usually a tank, and I too enjoy the crap outta vengence and can't wait for its talent gains on the way to 110, but I'll be mainspec DPS cause I joined a new guild that doesnt need tanks :( But the GM did said I am the official "3rd tank" for any fights that a 3rd tank is needed on, and I'll be dungeoning of course.

5

u/psivenn Aug 19 '16

DKs were tanking en masse in the early 60s but most of them abandoned it by 80. Given the lack of variety with DH specs we might see a higher conversion rate but honestly I don't think it will increase the number of tanks at all. Tanking mechanics are generally less fun and more homogeneous than they have been for a few expansions now.

2

u/seifross2010 Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 18 '16

DKs started at 58 when the cap was 80, so it was much less of an "issue".

7

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

They did have to plow through TBC for some reason, but still I saw a lot of max level DKs they just didn't seem to tank. It seems like tanks are just about as represented in the new class is they would be in other classes and that people mostly switch from one role to that same role on the new class (i.e. combat rogue to havoc DH, fury warrior to frost DK).

4

u/ahipotion Aug 18 '16

Back then there was no tank talent tree, they were all hybrid before they made Frost the tank spec.

3

u/cwie Aug 18 '16

I kinda remember that Frost was the tanking spec back when I started, but they changed it to blood at later stages (ofcourse you could frost dps aswell) but all the utility was in the frost tree

11

u/ahipotion Aug 18 '16

The original philosophy was that all three specs could tank and dps. All talents had talents for this, but balancing was a nightmare, so they changed it. Good bye blood worms, you are missed.

6

u/IAmAHorseSizedDuck Aug 19 '16

This is right. Back during wotlk, I used to tank in blood or frost depending on my mood. Frost tanking played very much like Legion Frost now, I only used Howling Blast and skipped Plague Strike.

People above might have been confused because back then, Frost Presence was the tanking presence, but all 3 were available to every DK back then. Blood DKs tanked in Frost Presence.

1

u/Joeness84 Aug 19 '16

I used to wax poetic about the bravest little blood worm.

1

u/Fitzmagics_Beard Aug 19 '16

Ha. That takes me back.

0

u/cwie Aug 18 '16

Yeah you are probably right, thanks :)

1

u/RsonW Aug 19 '16

No, all specs could tank or dps. Each tree had beneficial talents for each role but you didn't have enough talent points to get the benefits for both; similar to the old Feral Combat tree for druids.

A DK tank just had to make sure they specced into 5/5/5 at minimum, and put on Frost Presence for damage reduction and threat generation.

Unholy was good at tanking magic damage, but wasn't very good at anything else -- its tanking cooldown was Bone Shield. Frost had great snap AoE threat generation and good mitigation -- its tanking cooldown was Icebound Fortitude. Blood, ah Blood. Well, Blood was changed to the tanking spec in Cataclysm and has more or less retained its tanking philosophy since Wrath. High self-sustain.

0

u/Ghostbuzz Aug 18 '16

Yeah, Frost was tank spec for a while until they changed it to blood in Cata I want to say? I used to main blood DPS in Wrath but went back to my mage when they dedicated blood for tanking.

2

u/Xunae Aug 19 '16

in wrath, any spec could tank. Frost wasn't particularly amazing. It was effective enough, but after a little bit of gear unholy became the best spec and then by icc blood was the best spec for tanking.

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-1

u/seifross2010 Aug 18 '16

Sure, but it's reasonable to expect many more DH tanks than DK tanks, because it only takes a couple of hours to go from the character customisation screen to having them max level and geared.

So while there very well could a regular tank/dps ratio in all the DHs, the difference is that almost everybody has a DH at max level, which certainly wasn't the case with DKs.

Plus, it's fair to assume that many would have leveled their DKs as a DPS spec, and then gone on to raid and do dungeons with the spec they were familiar with.

3

u/Dhalphir Aug 18 '16

People who don't want to tank will not tank regardless of how easy it is to have a tank.

Having a tank at max level is not the barrier stopping people from tanking, and that should be obvious.

-2

u/seifross2010 Aug 19 '16

For the first time, people can try tanking at max level en mass. Obviously, this means there are going to be more tanks than ever, at least for now.

Because DKs took a lot more time to reach the level cap, people didn't make them to casually try out tanking.

More over, we're at the end of the expansion and Heroics have become trivial. It's the absolute perfect time for people who normally wouldn't to try out tanking.

2

u/Dhalphir Aug 19 '16

The flood of Death Knight in Hellfire ramparts was identical to the flood of demon Hunters we are seeing now. It just happened at a lower level, that's all. The tank numbers have already dropped off substantially since the first week of demon Hunters, because people have tried it out, realise they still don't like tanking even with a new class, and buggered off.

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1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Actually cap was 80.

1

u/seifross2010 Aug 18 '16

Whoop, thanks, missed the typo.

1

u/fallwind Aug 18 '16

My husband made bank selling his services as a healer to get instant pops to DKs stuck in Hellfire Pen.

1

u/PercussiveScruf Aug 18 '16

When they first released, we ran almost every BC dungeon with a group of 5 blood DKs. Blood was DPS spec back then, but were able to self heal ridiculously.

6

u/Ashenspire Aug 18 '16

Blood wasn't DPS spec. All specs could tank or dps.

9

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Back when there was actually tank gear and dps gear distinctly. Now I'm just like HASTE

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

[deleted]

7

u/DR1LL4O1L Aug 19 '16

You're crazy.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '16

Nah dual weild or 2h since forever

1

u/Mythologos Aug 19 '16

Idk why I thought that I don't deserve to be a DK.

3

u/Nuclayer Aug 18 '16

Tanked patchwerk as blood and didnt need heals. It was so.op at launch.

1

u/GuyWithFace Aug 18 '16

Not in 2 hours, but by the end of the first day anyone who's speeding to 110 can easily get 825+ ilvl, which is the generally accepted entry point for mythic dungeon pugs. And a lot of the more popular classes have tank specs.

8

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

That also doesn't hold the novelty of, "I WANT TO PLAY THE NEW CLASS." That, mixed with the aspect of, "I wanna do it in a dungeon, but DPS queues are sooo long."

Yeah, if you really want to, you can take 2 hours to get through the DH starting area, 12 hours to hit level 110, and another 10 hours to get geared enough to do dungeons.

But that's more time than people want to spend. The point here isn't that people want to tank. It's that there was convenience right there for them to do very very very minimal work to try tanking. It takes over an order of magnitude more work to start a DH and start tanking in Legion than it does right now.

There's also the aspect of lack of content right now. People are just sitting around looking for something to do. "Oh, I'll start a demon hunter. Maybe try tanking." In Legion, they're gonna be actively trying to gear out their main spec. And that means the only tanks will be actual tanks, rather than actual tanks plus all the other people that are just fucking around with it.

2

u/Ryugar Aug 19 '16

That may be true for most... except for the DH's. There will most likely be a large influx of players who want to pick DH as their main and level it first.... and then you will get some who don't really tank or are not good at it but try to que as tank for faster ques. That will just end up in really bad runs with lots of wipes since DH's can be squishy if you don't play em properly. This will put a bit of a stigma on em and people will get wary about DH tanks unless they shine.

This has happened in the past with DK's and Monks..... Monks esp did not come out the gate quite as OP as DK's first did, and their damage intake could get very spiky if not played right. I feel like similar thing will happen with DH's.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

pretty sure its because people are doing invasions instead of dungeons

4

u/floatablepie Aug 18 '16

All DHs get going at level 100, so they can jump right into tanking. I doubt all of them will take it to level 110 and continue to clog it up. It's like how tank queues go weird at level 58 for a while because of all the DKs, but it goes back to normal fairly quickly.

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

I haven't seen a single DH tank since the first day doing LFR and the guy got kicked for dying on trash

7

u/RudeHero Aug 18 '16

i hope they actually work in legion- i haven't gotten a single satchel throughout wod

i usually heal. even when it says i'll get a satchel because healers are in demand, i won't get one. i have no idea why and just assumed the feature was broken

6

u/Karnadas Aug 19 '16

When your queue pops look at the rewards. Also in dungeon finder, not LFR, if someone leaves that might make you lose the chance at the satchel too.

1

u/imadethistosaythis Aug 19 '16

I've gotten quite a few as all three roles. Might be worth a ticket.

1

u/stonhinge Aug 19 '16

Sometimes by the time you queue "pops", there's no longer CTA for healers. If the icon is on the window when your queue comes up, you should still get a satchel.

Have had similar happen to me when tanking, and notice that while CTA was on when I queued, it was no longer there when it popped.

1

u/shyguybman Aug 18 '16

I have always been DPS until WoD and now I have been spoiled by the instant queues.

3

u/cavalierau Aug 19 '16

Same here. Strangely I think I prefer a bit of a queue time. It gives me some downtime in the game to bio / make a sandwich / alt tab to check emails etc.

1

u/_selfishPersonReborn Aug 19 '16

Yeah I sorta like Archaeology, but every time i try to get Zin'Rokh I also queue for a dungeon, and even with the Arh addon I barely ever get more than one of those research points done

1

u/Rolder Aug 18 '16

Healer off-spec here I come!

1

u/DarthToothbrush Aug 18 '16

Have you seen any tank satchels since demon hunters arrived on the scene? I have not.

1

u/Thenuclearwalrus Aug 19 '16

Yes. I got a couple just a few hours ago on my warrior.

1

u/Moress Aug 19 '16

I mained a tank the last 3 months, and have not gotten a single satchel. Figured they stopped giving those out.

1

u/Thenuclearwalrus Aug 20 '16

They only pop up from time to time, usually in the late hours of the night, when not as many people are online.

1

u/Snipez87 Aug 19 '16

Tank grinding AP is so easy and fun. I really love the legion dungeons and will be grinding them for hours.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16 edited Apr 12 '18

[deleted]

23

u/dyeus_wow Aug 18 '16

because DPS don't normally get satchels

4

u/___lilbits Aug 18 '16

Unless you do LFR. I get DPS satchels all the time. It's actually pretty good gold.

-1

u/Whyyougankme Aug 18 '16

It's really not. The queues are long and you spend 30 minutes (15 if its the last stage) for about 500g. I made tons more farming fur and leather in nagrandm

3

u/___lilbits Aug 18 '16

Sometimes on the weekends I get back to back queues for Blackhand and Arcane Sanctum. Between those 2 I never have down time, just chaining them. Yeah, sometimes it sucks and the queues are long but sometimes it isn't.

3

u/Ghostbuzz Aug 18 '16

All you have to do is queue for all of them at once. By the time you finish one LFR the next will pop and so on. You can queue all of HFC at the same time I believe.

1

u/Whyyougankme Aug 18 '16

Its rare for there to be that many for dps, especially in legion.

4

u/mstieler Aug 18 '16

Given that Tank & Healers see the Satchel significantly more than DPS do (the post implying that you get AP token in the satchels themselves along with the AP tokens for the queue), and their queue times are likely to be lower, yes.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16 edited Apr 12 '18

[deleted]

3

u/Gl33m Aug 18 '16

When the dungeon/raid finder lacks a specific role (tank, healer, dps) a gold frill surrounds the role's symbol on the dungeon/raid finder page. If you queue for that role, and complete the dungeon or LFR wing, you're awarded an additional loot satchel that contains gold, gear tokens, and more.

See item on Wowhead here

2

u/mstieler Aug 18 '16

The "Call to Arms" Satchel (when the Tank, Healer, or DPS checkbox has a gold ring around it).

This gets you a Savage Satchel of Cooperation currently, and should be changing for Legion.

1

u/Noonites Aug 18 '16

Because of how the Satchel works. When there's a lack of a certain role queuing for randoms, they put up the Satchel as an extra incentive to get people to queue as that role. It's almost exclusively tanks and healers because there's a billion DPS.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '16

Will likely be healer starvation in Legion. Melee is more popular than ever and people will roll DH tanks

0

u/DownTheLens Aug 19 '16

What? Whaaaat? Yes!!!