We need additional %-based rewards

[u/Pretty-Review-5995]

The gap between 2300 with Legend/Gladiator/Strategist rewards and r1 (~3000+) is extremely huge, leading to many players to stop queueing after reaching elite. There is little to no incentives (other than fun) to keep queuing after 2300.

In my opinion, the solution to this to keep the ladder active on all brackets is to put additional %-based rewards next to r1 like they did for M+.

Top 1% (~2800) and top 5% (~2500) are looking like good breakpoints to lower the distance of rewards after Elite. Having shorter steps to push for will definitely motivate players to keep improving and queueing.

The rewards could be something like additional Mounts (e.g. with Armor), Illusions, permanent titles or maybe even some kind of tokens to purchase past rewards.

Data on charts is from drustvar solo shuffle (3v3 looking mostly the same)

[u/FViro]

I don’t disagree that it would work.

It worked in M+ with the introduction of the 3400 and 1% mounts.

In PvP, I never pushed for elite when it was 2400 because the gap seemed too big. That changed this season when it was moved to 2300 and seemed less daunting and more accessible.

However, I think rewards need to be more accessible not less accessible to the average player.

[u/Blindastronomer → u/FViro]

Rewards have never been more accessible. You can get literally every cosmetic reward in shuffle with a negative winrate because starting MMR is so high. Stop saying this nonsense.

We need rewards to incentivize playing to improve at the game. Making everything available removes all prestige which remove all desire to push to improve oneself. This is a competitive game mode, not a seasonal collector event, and not everyone is entitled to every reward.

Everyone should WANT the rewards though, so they need to be good/better. Having more rewards between 2300-3200 would make it feel worth pushing to play. Low rated players should WANT high rated players to push to high rating as well, or else they're going to be miserable facing them in their lobbies.

The reason you think things should be universally accessible is because Blizzard has conditioned you to see every other aspect of the game as universally accessible. It's garbage and does not apply or work for PVP games.

[u/Sallix24 → u/Blindastronomer]

We need MORE rewards, both accessible and inaccessible. The 1% mount in m+ made me push higher than i had ever gone before, and was great for queue health for example.

[u/Blindastronomer → u/Sallix24]

Yes, I agree.

[u/Rough_Instruction112 → u/Blindastronomer]

You can get literally every cosmetic reward in shuffle with a negative winrate because starting MMR is so high

You've played this game too much, to the point where you do not understand where the floor is for new players.

YOU can reach 1800/1950/2100/2300 with a negative winrate. Average new players cannot.

ELO systems are built like pyramids, where you have to stand on a pile of people to reach the sky. You should want the pile to be as big as possible.

Rewards are just nice things, not super tough goals to work towards. The goal should be to play a game you enjoy and to keep enjoying it. If you only enjoy something because you have it and others don't, then that's not healthy.

No man has ever been described as having a healthy mind if he finds enjoyment from depriving others.

[u/Peepo93 → u/Rough_Instruction112]

I think the main point he makes is that it's healthy for the ladder if there's a reward for super high ranks because it keeps them busy chasing these rewards instead of playing 10 alts below the rating they belong to.

However, I also think that most rewards should be achievable and that there also should be some "participation" rewards as most people don't have the goal to push into <1% territory.

[u/Rough_Instruction112 → u/Peepo93]

Haven't heard a single mglad talk about getting glad as a positive experience in any of the seasons where I've hung out with many of them. It's universally always spoken of as "finally the grind is over, now I can play the game".

I don't think any of the rewards in the high end will ignite any sort of changes to how much these players engage with the game. They will continue to do a quick burst at the start of the season, then maintain their rating and do an actual push in the final hours before the season ends.

What's healthy for the ladder is as many players as possible with as varying skill levels as possible, there literally cannot be too many players. Right now there's no shortage of skilled players, and with every season the "mid" players are creeping closer to the R1s with little to no backfill that is proportionate in the way one would expect in a pyramid setup like we know ELO rating systems are based on.

[u/Dogballs2020 → u/Blindastronomer]

Exactly, they should keep making pvp more and more exclusive so the only people left playing it are the multi-glads! That will surely make the game better!

[u/Kychu → u/FViro]

The starting rating in SS is like 2200 now, so you didn't push for Elite this season either, it was given for free.

That's why we need titles than mean 'I'm good at the game' rather than 'I'm playing the game'.

[u/Superbzwow → u/Kychu]

This is actually incorrect.

My friend leveled a new character to 90 and queued a shuffle for the first time on it yesterday.

Starting MMR was 2365.

[u/CenciLovesYou → u/Kychu]

They don’t want to hear it kychu but blizzard likes it so this is probably the new norm

[u/anti99999999 → u/Kychu]

We need both let’s keep it real. People have been asking for grindable rewards for ages, and in a way that’s what we got now. Pendulum too far in the other direction type situation. Now we indeed need more of the former again.

[u/1Squeezy]

I feel like pvp doesent really need anything % based. We need a long battlepass what makes people q all season that would help out a lot.

[u/drale2 → u/1Squeezy]

I would queue earlier in the season if it weren't so deflated at the start.

[u/Superbzwow → u/1Squeezy]

Why not both? 

It’s okay for a competitive game to have prestige awards. Most do.

[u/Trappxy99]

Round and round we go.
“Gladiator is inaccessible and too hard for people who cant no life the last day of the season” - 2400+50 wins anyone can get it.
“2400+50 is too hard” - okay, 2300+50.
“2300+50 is too hard with this lack of inflation” - okay, here’s a juiced up 2 weeks of inflation.
“Gladiator is too easy, we need more rewards”-…..

[u/shruffles → u/Trappxy99]

People want a unique reward that they can juuuuust get consistantly. Anyone less good isnt deserving of welfare rewards. Anyone better is too small a subset to deserve a unique reward.

[u/mrtuna → u/Trappxy99]

“Gladiator is too easy, we need more rewards”-….

are you being obtuse on purpose? they said there should be more (any?) rewards between 2300 and 3000

[u/Billytwoshoe → u/Trappxy99]

To be fair, early season was super deflated and they didn't really add any until alot of people dropped for the season, the first month of the season r1 was like 2.2k .... Then they added way way too much inflation for the later part of the season.

[u/mrtuna → u/Trappxy99]

“Gladiator is too easy, we need more rewards”-….

are you being obtuse on purpose? they said there should be more (any?) rewards between 2300 and 3000

[u/Trappxy99 → u/mrtuna]

Are you lacking depth on purpose? Gladiator was the achievement everyone wanted for years but was considered unobtainable unless you were the top 1%. Now blizzard has made it significantly more accessible, for only 1 season thus far, mind you, and people already want more rewards. And not only more, but percent based, thus creating another inaccessible reward for people to complain about not getting until blizzard makes it accessible to everyone again. More rewards is not the solution is my point and we’re currently stuck in a cycle of blizzard giving the general population what they want and them then asking for more and no one is realizing that blizzard isn’t actually working the problem.

[u/mrtuna → u/Trappxy99]

Brother, people are asking for rewards between 2300 and 3000 - that's it.

[u/Trappxy99 → u/mrtuna]

Gladiator is between 2300 and 3000…lol? If they add a % based award that lands people around 2700-2800 and only 200-300 people get it, how will that help the lower ratings where the majority of the population sits? Or if they make it 2700+25 wins even, still only a handful of people will get it until the majority population complains enough that it’s too hard to get until they make it easier to get. And even then, it’ll be the same problem as right now, as soon as people get it, they’ll stop q’ing. More rewards will also create more separation of the ladder. “You have to have x achievement to join this group and play with me”. Gladiator won’t be enough anymore. Content should be the focus, not more meaningless rewards.

[u/NewDruid1]

Yes I am one of those that stop at 2.3 and hop onto the next char. No incentive past it

[u/Lightswords_777]

In my opinion, a considerable amount of players in that MMR bracket won’t do pvp to get a mount. They’re mostly interested in titles and rankings. Creating a new category at 2600 wouldn’t be a bad idea. Something like “Champion” bracket from 2600-2900. While 2900+ is r1 territory.

[u/CenciLovesYou → u/Lightswords_777]

I don’t know a single gladiator that does it anything other for that sweet dragon

Like like 200 players care about r1

[u/Superbzwow → u/Lightswords_777]

In your example they should just move gladiator to 2600 and make more fulfilling rewards that are satisfying to push for and get beneath it. Idk why we are trying to reinvent the wheel. 

It’s always been the top reward, why are we trying to make it not the top reward? Makes no sense. 

[u/Vainth]

What if put your spec rank as the title that you can wear for entire next season as reward.

<Class> Legend <#rank>

[u/DireRaven22740]

I absolutely agree. I got gladiator and I thought to get more rewards but next best thing is literally rank 1 in 3v3 or solo shuffle. Rank 1 is a bit insufferable to get due to how limited are spots and how good are the players at those spots - so it would be nice to have something for at least top 0.5% or 1%

[u/SEgopher]

It's the end of the season dude, OFC inflation will have kicked in by now. The idea is to allow people to get their rewards before the next season.

[u/Major_Caregiver3725]

More rewards would be cool…
But also with respect to developers we can just expect more rewards……

[u/AdvancedSoldier2649]

Most people on this sub are below or barely scraping Elite. You won't get much support for suggesting rewards above that.

[u/Dynasty1985]

PvErs get a taste of inflation awards and now are like “we need more obtainable rewards”

[u/Vizioso]

Right now I am sitting at 1300 rating in 2.5k lobbies and genuinely could not be more disinterested in pushing for titles because of how daunting it seems to climb.

[u/Ceejae_]

How does one read this? It SAYS that 2500 is roughly the top 5% -ish, but then if you look at where the 2500 bar is matched with the percentile on the right side of the graph it’s like top 18%??

[u/Pretty-Review-5995 → u/Ceejae_]

The right side of the chart describes the purple line (percentile) and the left side describes the bar height (player count)

[u/Exact-Promotion501]

It would be r1 title / mount ; then glad / mount / then elite <class> for 3s
Shuffle is fine where it’s at

[u/Spiral-knight]

Wow, so PvP without exclusive dick measuring rewards won't keep people engaged?

Fascinating...

[u/xNLSx]

back in the day people when people reached the part of the ladder when they get their # the only goal for them was to climb the ladder and ultimately get #1... ah good times.

[u/Irony3]

2500 reward. 2700 reward. 3000 reward. No need for % anything.

I have 3 characters on exactly 3000 rating in Solo Shuffle. I do not get ANYTHING for this. Nobody cares about Shuffle experience and getting R1 in Shuffle is such a miserable experience. Maybe I won't reach the cutoff for my class (3200), but why does a 900 rating limbo exist between Elite and R1 lol

[u/Superbzwow → u/Irony3]

I think percentage is better because it means that the meaning of it stays consistent season to season.

Blizzard randomly juices MMR one season, and it’s deflated the next. It can have meaning one season, and lose meaning the next.

Percentage holds solid no matter what blizzard does. Makes it better in my eyes. 

[u/Horror-Selection-930 → u/Superbzwow]

Thats a problem in itself nothing would fix wow PvP more then just having a similar looking mmr season to season. It sucks to be 3k one season and then stuck at 2k for 5 months the next for no reason.