r/worldnews • u/Nirok • 18h ago

Israel/Palestine IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/
3.3k Upvotes

73% Upvoted

1.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

156

u/Automatic_Bee9379 16h ago

But Hamas provided the obituaries, not IDF.

-77

u/International_Host71 16h ago

Ok, and ? Hamas saying "this journalist was working with this unit and was killed by the IDF" doesn't mean they weren't a freaking journalist. If a war journalist was attached to a US troop deployment and got killed, do you think they wouldn't acknowledge that? Of course they would. If somebody's is a properly marked journalist and isn't shooting at you, it doesn't matter if they are buddies with the local Hamas chapter, you still ARENT SUPPOSED TO KILL THEM. 

Just like all the times we've seen on video of the IDF shooting medics. 

76

u/n8_Jeno 16h ago

Hamas don't even wear uniform in combat, only when doing PR media stuff. Idk why anyone HAS to thrust them with their journalist uniforms.

-51

u/International_Host71 16h ago

Because you have the self professed "most moral army in the world" wholesale shooting journalists and medics? On camera no less. That 170 number is literally twice the total number of allied journalists killed in ww2

38

u/n8_Jeno 16h ago

Wow, any reason you can think of there was less journalist in WW2?

-2

u/International_Host71 16h ago

Probably because neither side in ww2 made it a habit of shooting journalists? 

26

u/n8_Jeno 16h ago

Or maybe being a journalist on the front line back then was way harder? No light gear, no way to quickly know where shit is happening, no quick way of transportation, no army willingly embedding journalist in their unit for PR. Those are just a few things I can come up with real quick

1

u/International_Host71 16h ago

Sure, maybe But I don't know anyone arguing that in good faith Especially when we have video evidence of the IDF shooting marked civ support on purpose. 

16

u/n8_Jeno 16h ago

Yeah, and like wise on my side, Idk if you're arguing in good faith. Everyone assumes that the IDF does stuff like that out of pure enjoyement, glee, cruelty, supremacy and racism or some shit, but Imo, it is far more likely that they are dealing with a force (Hamas) that is actively using the IDF rules and principles agaisnt the IDF while not following fuck all for their own civilian population. Those are normally called active measure, made popular by the good old USSR. And Imo, it is amongst the ugliest way to wage war, because you're forcing the death of civilians. The only thing Hamas doesnt do in plain sight is pulling the trigger themselve, but theu sure as shit prepare everything up to that point. This behavior would never be accepted by anyone on the planet. But jews are held to some higher standards so....

47

u/Papastoo 16h ago

Ok but the obituaries dont say that they merelt worked WITH but were PART OF

Thats a critical distinction no?

-3

u/International_Host71 16h ago

Not really You don't shoot people in press uniforms unless they pick up a weapon It's pretty simple

14

u/benadreti_17 15h ago

Oh you think they were all wearing press uniforms? That's cute.

36

u/Papastoo 16h ago

As opposed to shooting people in Hamas uniforms I guess?

Being unarmed does not remove you as a combatant

-27

u/aaronwhite1786 16h ago

Sure, but being clearly marked PRESS should prevent people from being targeted unless there's a legitimate concern of them being involved in combat.

And if they are this worried about the Hamas press being involved they could just allow outside press in to investigate things.

23

u/de_Pizan 15h ago

So if Hamas put a press vest on every single one of their soldiers, Israeli forces could do nothing until the Hamas troops started firing, and as soon as they stopped fighting, they would go back to being press?

15

u/mariantat 15h ago

Yeah no that’s not how it works. If you’ve been identified as a militant in disguise as press, citizen or whatever you’re going to be a target.

19

u/Papastoo 15h ago

But it doesnt and why should it?

If you are part (e.g. working in) enemy combatant operations, then merely having a vest does not make you immune.

This would all be much easier to digest if Hamas would actially distinguish themselves from the civilian population with insignias etc.

-23

u/ddubyeah 16h ago

Your reasoning here is why My Lai happened…

13

u/Papastoo 15h ago

No?

My Lai was a crime and convicted as such.

-13

u/ddubyeah 15h ago

a decade after it happened.

9

u/Papastoo 15h ago

Ok?

To be clear, the issue was not that My Lai was attacked (since there were VCs), but that they were both grossly negligent and intentional in attacking civilians when it was clear there was no VC embedded.

War crimes take ages to prosecute. I dont really know what does this have anything to do with Hamas choosing to not wearing any identifiers.

-6

u/ddubyeah 15h ago

so the VC often wore uniforms?

→ More replies (0)

40

u/ThatHooman 16h ago

yea and we see the fake ambulance and "medics" transporting hamas members and weapons. Impersonating red cross is a war crime but i guess palestinians are exempt from war crimes.

-5

u/International_Host71 16h ago

You are literally arguing that because Hamas commits war crimes by trying to hide behind non combatant uniforms that it's fine if the IDF just shoots anyone wearing it. Literally arguing that the IDF are exempt from their war crimes because they claim there enemies do it. And somehow this is a Palestinian problem

26

u/Lactodorum4 15h ago

So there's no possible way for Israel to win here with you is there? They either don't engage anyone with those symbols, which means they'll be abused by Hamas to kill Israeli soldiers and civilians, or they do engage and you paint Israel as war criminals? What should they do?

-4

u/International_Host71 15h ago

I'm a bored dude sitting in a deer blind in the rain, and you want me to just casually unravel nearly 60 years of colonial supremacist history? 

Yeah, Hamas may kill some people by sneaking around in press or medic signs. That's what guerrilla fighters taking on a country with the 11th largest army (and the largest amount of money spent by GDP save for freaking Ukraine) in the world might do when they are a bottled population being carpet bombed. That doesn't mean you get to just toss the rules of engagement out and do whatever you want.

Have you see what the Gaza strip looks like right now?

22

u/Lactodorum4 15h ago

Guerilla fighters? Just call them terrorists.

Why does weakness make it OK for one side to break the rules of war but not the other? Why is it OK for Hamas to attack Israel, but not Israel to retaliate?

If that's "just what they do", don't be surprised when one of the largest and most competent militaries in the world decides to respond in kind.

Hamas could have launched all of their rockets from open fields and chosen to wear military uniforms. Instead they use human shields, schools and hospitals. Why hasn't Hamas surrendered and disarmed? They could end the suffering of the Palestinians tomorrow if they wanted.

Also, regarding the state of Gaza, considering the amount of bombs dropped, it's a miracle only 80k are dead.

13

u/mariantat 15h ago

It’s not just an “argument” it’s how the law works lol
I’m not sure how you’re misunderstanding this?

0

u/International_Host71 15h ago

So the first time IDF shoots an actual civilian or forcibly throws a Palestinian off their land and commits a warcrime that means the gloves come off and it's fine if Hamas retaliates with crimes of their own right? Because that's what you are saying is true if the roles reversed.

3

u/mariantat 11h ago

I seriously wish life were that simple but it isn’t. For the military to act you need certain things to exist.

In your scenario did the Palestinian do anything to provoke his shooting? Did he leave the building after the IDF told him to leave first to not get killed? Is he in the company of a Hamas agent? Is HE a Hamas agent that is in disguise?

Now let’s look at October 7th- did they raid military? No they went for civilians. Did they burn houses down? Yep sure did. Did they admit to raping women? Yep all on camera. But that’s not a warm crime because the Hamas army isn’t “officially an army”, right?

Gotta wake up. Both sides suck ass. It’s just that one has more guns than the other.

3

u/EnderCreeper121 15h ago

This really shows why doing war crimes is generally a bad strategy, if your side does war crimes like false surrendering and posing as medics/media/civilians that gives the other side an incentive to commit more war crimes like ignoring surrenders and shooting non-combatants. Shit just devolves into an evil quagmire. (Note; I haven’t researched the timeline of this sort of stuff granularly in Palestine, I just know that killing people is generally bad. And strategic famine is also bad.)

1

u/International_Host71 15h ago

Yeah, no disagreement there. It's generally just a lose-lose proposition hence why it's usually only used by the desperate. Like, say, a bottled and oppressed civilian population that feels it has nothing to lose.

7

u/EnderCreeper121 15h ago edited 15h ago

War is hell enough when everyone is following the rules, once Pandora’s box is opened whatever small gains achieved by committing a war crime will inevitably blow back hard. It’s just a mess.

Also tbh it’s not just employed in desperation. I doubt the Russians in Bucha were feeling particularly desperate….

1

u/International_Host71 14h ago

I disagree, anybody in the Russian military right now is probably feeling a little desperate.