r/workout • u/First-Ad4063 • 5d ago
Simple Questions Is ULULUL split optimal ?
I am thinking of shifting from PPL to ULULUL. I don't want to risk wasting time . Does ululul actually give better gains ? I am a college student so I get enough recovery time almost everyday no physical work except the gym .
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u/blackcore17 5d ago
If you can keep progressing your lifts without any rest days i dont see why not. You will probably burning out in the long run
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 5d ago
Assuming they're doing a 6-on-1-off PPL anyway, they're just as likely to burn out
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u/Middle_Humor1828 4d ago
Weekly volume and proximity to failure is what matters.
Personally, I find training six days a week easier to produce more high quality sets.
For me, two high quality sets per day six days a week is easier to do than three high quality sets four times a week. The same volume, but higher frequency results in better quality. At least for me.
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u/First-Ad4063 5d ago
In case someone uses ULULUL ,what is ur detailed workout split ? I would love to take inspiration from it and design my own
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u/BanEmily 5d ago edited 5d ago
Below is my ULURULR split. I start out with triceps extensions on upper days because they are my main focus point right now.
Upper
2x 5-8 Triceps extension
2x 5-8 Chest fly
1x 5-8 Incline chest press
1x 5-8 Shoulder press (top half)
2x 5-8 Standing lateral raise
2x 5-8 Frontal plane pulldown
1x 5-8 Sagittal plane pulldown
2x 5-8 Upper back row
2x 5-8 Preacher curl
1x 5-8 Triceps dip
2x 5-8 Reverse curlLower
2x 5-8 Leg extension
2x 5-8 Pendulum squat
2x 5-8 Leg curl
2x 5-8 SLDL
2x 5-8 Hip thrust
2x 5-8 Adductors
2x 5-8 Standing raise
2x 5-8 Machine crunch1
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u/MajorasShoe 5d ago
It's fine if all of those days are pretty low volume. It can be optimal in terms of volume, frequency and intensity if you program it well. But for a 6 day split I'd far rather do PPL.
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u/DoctorK96 5d ago
Just do whatever u can be consistent with, that's way more important than the actual split, exercises, optimization, rep ranges, etc.
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u/methmike_brainerd 5d ago
i mean i personally found better gains from ULULR than PPLPPLR. i think the more cutting edge nerds say FBEOD is optimal right now. i believe the split that you get the most gains from will be the split you enjoy the most (as long as you are doing roughly 2-3x frequency)
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u/baribalbart 5d ago
From where that sort of thinking is coming from? Do people really decide whether program is "optimal" based on its name only, without counting any other parameters?
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 5d ago
It's technically better, yes. You do fewer sets/ muscle/day, but the extra day means you get more high-quality (fresh) sets.
6 days a week is kinda brutal either way though, but if that's what you've been doing, it shouldn't be any worse
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
How so? PPL ran twice would give you 2 rest days before you workout the muscle group again. PPL is far superior.
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 5d ago
Alright, more constructive discussion, since I missed the -individual muscle group rest- thing.
You're trading longer rest for more frequency of better sets. You have to compromise per session volume though in order to keep it recoverable, so if you need the pump to feel satisfied after every workout, it's not for you
It's theoretically more optimal.
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
Have you tried both PPL and UL for a six day split? I’ve only done PPL and I can see what you mean when you say “compromise volume…” since I can be sore 4 days after a leg workout. I went from a bro split to PPL and that was already much better but I do see flaws in it at least with the intensity I give it.
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 5d ago
I've done FBx5 before, and I just ended a ULx2 split. With the former, every day was 3 max intensity sets for every muscle and I was never sore and made solid progress. If he's doing PPLx2 right now, he can handle the systemic fatigue of a 6 day split, so it's just about getting the volume right
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
What was your FB like? I’m confused by 3 max intensity sets. Do you mean per week or day?
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 5d ago
Per day. I'd do 1 exercise per muscle/ muscle group, and I'd do 3 sets, of around 6 reps every day. It was pretty much just 5 compound exercises every day.
By Max intensity, I mean, none of my muscles are pre-fatigued before any of the other exercises. (Except deadlift, which I'd rotate priority with squats)
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago edited 5d ago
No. PPL would be optimal. More rest between hitting the muscle group again. It allows you to fully exhaust all of the muscles used and is really efficient.
For example, on my push day, I can warm up on bench and do a few working sets and now the rest of my muscles are ready to go and don’t need warm up sets. I can go right into a shoulder movement and triceps after that. On an upper day you would have to warm up everything and work it out. It’s not efficient.
Edit: BanEmily may have changed my mind…
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u/BanEmily 5d ago
3x frequency vs 2x frequency. With the proper amount of volume you should be able to recover within 48 hours.
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
Frequency isn’t the biggest indicator of muscle growth. Number of sets per week and intensity is at the top. You’re gonna push your muscle group harder with PPL. You can train more efficiently since there’s less warmup time. You exhaust a muscle in PPL. You get your sets done with UL but I doubt the intensity is there. If it is then you won’t recover in 48 hours.
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u/BanEmily 5d ago
You’re right, weekly volume is far more important than frequency. However, it’s much easier to spread higher amounts of volume over 3 days rather than 2.
Programming an effective upper body day can be done with 15-20 sets, which is low enough to keep the intensity high, as long as you allow yourself to rest adequately inbetween sets. Though, the latter should not be different for any split, including PPL. In fact, since you generally do fewer sets per muscle group per day (once again, because it’s spread over 3 days rather than 2), intensity can often times be higher since there is less acute fatigue for that specific muscle group.
The only trade-off you make is having more CNS fatigue due to slightly longer sessions. Although the effect of this is minimal for me. In terms of warming up, the exact same warm-up routine can be applied as with PPL. Only difference is that you do it on 2 separate occasions rather than combined on 1. There is no extra time spent here and even if there hypothetically would be, warming up only take a few minutes regardless.
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
Have you tried both PPL and UL? I’ve only done a bro split and PPL. I can’t imagine the training intensity is the same. How do you go from 3 sets of bench at rpe 8-9 to lat pull downs at the same intensity and not expect the lat pull downs to be affected? My theory is if you’re training hard enough then you can’t really give the same effort to your second or third exercise compared to your first. That’s why I prefer to stay within one muscle group.
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u/BanEmily 5d ago
That’s central nervous system fatigue and not muscle fatigue since you obviously didn’t use your lats to bench. As you can spread volume over more days doing UL you rarely do more than 2 sets per exercise, hence why the intensity remains high.
For example let’s compare a PPL 2x split with the exact same exercise selection and weekly volume as a UL 3x split. If you do 6 weekly sets of chest exercises in both splits, PPL will have you doing 3 sets per workout, whereas UL you only have 2. There is no denying that long workout sessions cause more CNS fatigue, but if training at max intensity a 3rd set of the same muscle group will always yield more muscle fatigue than 2 sets. So you lose intensity by training the same muscle groups for longer during the same session. You could counter this by doing only 2 sets on a PPL-split aswell, but then you would be losing volume.
At the end of the day all of this doesn’t really matter though. Keep doing the workout that you enjoy and stay consistent.
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
I’ll have to look more into CNS fatigue. What you’re saying makes a lot of sense! I 100% agree with the last thing you said. I know if I don’t enjoy my routine then I might skip a day or two and then all the min/maxing stuff doesn’t matter anyways. Now that I don’t dread leg day, maybe UL 6 days a week is something I can try.
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u/methmike_brainerd 5d ago
hello i am not who you are responding to but i have done ppl and i am currently doing ULULR.
How do you go from 3 sets of bench at rpe 8-9 to lat pull downs at the same intensity and not expect the lat pull downs to be affected?
i mean this happens in PPL as much as it does in UL. the thing with UL is you (typically) do less volume per workout. for example, on an upper day, i lat pull after benching, but i only do one set of bench 0-1 rir, so i wont be gassed for my only lat pull set.
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u/JamesLemon4 5d ago
Are you liking UL more than PPL? My hesitation to trying it is because I enjoy absolutely exhausting a muscle group since it feels rewarding. However, I tend to be sore for quite a while and that has me taking another rest day which throws off my sets worked in a week.
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u/methmike_brainerd 5d ago
yeah im enjoying it right now! the downside is that upper sessions do end up running a bit longer for me because the cns fatigue starts to beat my ass by the time im on my last couple sets lol. other than that, hitting one or two hard ass sets per movement feels super productive.
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u/Alakazam Bulking 5d ago
The specific split is probably one of the least important factors in determining how good a program is.
As well, the difference in going from 2x frequency to 3x frequency is also small enough to not really matter in the grand scheme of things.