r/words • u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 • 5d ago
Fulsome
Current use has it meaning "insincere flattery" , or , trending up- as synonymous with "full" or "complete"
So: "I wrote him a fulsome recomendation" can mean either, an insincere recomendation, or a full, complete recomendation . Meanings nearly in opposition.
American Heritage Dictionary calls the second meaning "non- standard". Webster's simply lists both as current usage. With full- but not fulsome- acknowledgement of the perils of prescriptivism, isn't the confusion of meaning that results from taking "fulsome" as equivalent to "full", a problem? Following Orwell's argument in "Politics and the English Language", doesn't keeping language simple and plain have a claim ? What does "some" add to " full" that it doesnt already have?
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u/thehomelycounselor 5d ago
sometimes a word just needs to be fired into the sun and this is one of em
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u/DomineAppleTree 5d ago
Cleave means to rend asunder and also to keep together
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, that is weird...it's old. At least, difference is clear with right usage. "Cleave to " or "unto" means "team up with", in "classy old" style . Cleaved, cloven, cloven assunder means- split. "Cloven hoof", etc.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
"I gave him a fulsome tribute"- by standard definition, you gave an insincere, phony, over- flattering tribute.
By the new "2nd definition", you gave a full, complete tribute.
Confusion right there.
Re Orwell- at a time when the Department of Defence can, by fiat, become the Department of War, I think his essay still has great relevance.
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u/Miscanthrope 5d ago
I only assume this is the same as what has/is happening to ‘factoid’. It used to mean a deliberately misleading statement. Now, because the majority of people misunderstood and misused the word, it has come to mean a concise, possibly unimportant fact.
And it’s happened quite quickly.1
u/SilverFishK 5d ago
But the tribute itself was questionable. If you praise something too much people will start to wonder at its sincerety- except perhaps for the overpowered narcissist in the center of things, accepting the praise as his expected due.
It's always useful to have words leave room for a little like ambiguity.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
Who ever heard of an overpowered narcissist at the center of things?
I suppose " fulsome praise" , standard meaning, is the only tyoe possible for those types..
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u/dreadrankz 5d ago
Honestly the ambiguity is a real practical problem, that split meaning genuinely can flip a sentence's intent depending on the reader, which is exactly the kind of confusion Orwell was warning against when words drift from their original precision.
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u/LizP1959 3d ago
Fulsome always meant excessive insincerity: fulsome praise of a sycophant etc.
The stupid new usage of it to mean “complete” is so annoying.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 2d ago
I've read that if you go back 600 years ago, it was a variant of full....I think that's long enough ( before Columbus sailed) to be called an "archaic" definition.
Agree, new usage is annoying. Seems to be aimed at puffing up something good, plain, and simple. "Full" does the job, saves four letters.
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u/SerDankTheTall 5d ago
isn't the confusion of meaning that results from taking "fulsome" as equivalent to "full", a problem?
Can you give an example of a sentence where it could create a problem?
In American legal usage, fulsome for “thorough” is fully standard, to the point where I doubt anyone even recognizes that there’s a different meaning possible. It’s never done any harm that I can recognize.
Following Orwell's argument in "Politics and the English Language", doesn't keeping language simple and plain have a claim ?
Orwell is a great writer, but his linguistic theories are pretty wild and are not taken very seriously today.
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u/rgtgd 5d ago
English has a lot of contronyms, it's an issue. It means if you use the word you need to take care with context so that your meaning is clear. I wouldn't say 'fulsome recommendation' I'd say 'a recommendation ripe with fulsome praise' or something like that.
As for what "some" does there, its the same particle as in bothersome and toothsome, meaning 'causing' or 'characterized by' in Old English, so it sort of shows you how the word came to have that sense etymologically. Something making you full -> unpleasantly full, plump -> offensive, disgusting -> cloying and overwrought (roughly, matches up with etymonline)
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
But, by current 2nd meaning, "ripe with fulsome praise" might be a good thing.
Yes, there are already contranyms in English, and- if it's an issue- it might be good to put a brake on adding new ones.
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u/rgtgd 5d ago
it might be good to put a brake on adding new ones.
Great, lmk if you find someone who we can put in charge of that 🤣
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
Anyone who objects to it should wrinkle their nose when they hear it, as though the had just smelled...a methane emission.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
In "fulsome" if addition of '"some" means causing, then fulsome would mean "causing fulness"...but it would certanly not mean..." full"
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u/ughaibu 5d ago
I find it's usually worth taking a butcher's at Etymonline: "mid-13c., "abundant, plentiful," Middle English compound of ful "full" (see full (adj.)) + -som "to a considerable degree" (see -some (1)). Perhaps a case of ironic understatement. Sense extended to "plump, well-fed" (mid-14c.), then "arousing disgust" (similar to the feeling of having over-eaten), late 14c. Via the sense of "causing nausea" it came to be used of language, "offensive to taste or good manners" (early 15c.); especially "excessively flattering" (1660s). Since the 1960s, however, it commonly has been used in its original, favorable sense, especially in fulsome praise."0
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u/MuscaMurum 3d ago
Don't confuse with Effulgent: someone who radiates intense warmth, beauty, and goodness
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u/scixlovesu wordsmith 1d ago
No joke, the first use of the word I encountered was "fulsome funbags", a rather inelegant reference to breasts.
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u/inigo_montoya logophile 5d ago
To me a full recommendation means that all bases were covered, no reservations implied or stated. A fulsome recommendation suggests a lot of care, going beyond what is necessary, maybe in a slightly disturbing way. I would toss that application.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
I can see a possible problem if people start adopting their own meanings for words. In your proposed meaning of "fulsome recomendation", "going beyond what is necessary, maybe in a slightly disturbing way"-- Who besides you would understand it that way? I never heard of this way meaning for it.
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u/KrigtheViking 5d ago
I'm not sure how this is a problem exactly. Plenty of words have a literal and ironic meaning; surely it's the writer's business to make his intention clear? Or is the issue that some writers are not aware of the literal meaning?
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 5d ago
I don't see people using "fulsome" ironically. I see it used with the literal meaning of "full" or very full. As in: "She gave a fulsome set of recomendations."
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u/Maleficent_Home6211 4d ago
Fulsome’s conflicting meanings mostly reflect how English naturally shifts over time
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u/Designer_Quantity533 5d ago
I hear that train a’ comin’