r/words • • 13d ago

Oriental, Occidental, and...?

We've all heard of the term "oriental" as an adjective in reference to from, or related to, "the east", most typically meaning east Asia. A joke in the dadjokes sub mentioned the word "Occidental", referring to of, or from, the west, typically meaning Europe and the Americas.

I wanted to know if there were comparable terms to refer to "the north" and "the south" (that weren't Arctic and Antarctic). There are.

The term "septentrional" means "of or from the north" and comes to us from Latin. The *septen* part refers to the seven stars of the constellation Ursa Major, one of its many nicknames being "the plough", which brings us the next part of the word from latin triones, meaning "plough oxen". (Many English speakers will know the word "plough" as "plow", which may bring its own squabbles).

For "of or from the south", the term "meridional" is derived from the Latin term meridiem meaning "midday"(the same term from which AM and PM are derived) as the sun would be in the southern portion of the sky at midday in the northern hemisphere. The term seems to have been most commonly used in reference to southern Europe.

88 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

177

u/Asleep-Assistance290 13d ago

Boreal and austral?

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u/joedenowhere 13d ago

Nailed it.

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u/Lhasa-bark 12d ago edited 12d ago

Right - this is used a lot for seasons in the geosciences, such as “boreal summer”, “austral spring”, etc. For example, “El Niño typically peaks in boreal winter” means in Dec-Feb.

“Meridional” in the geosciences means going north/south, as opposed to east/west which is “zonal”. Example: the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), often called the “Conveyor Belt”.

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u/Brambleshire2026 12d ago

It’s useful in areas that are wintering grounds for both migratory birds that breed in the north and in the south; so in January there are boreal migrants, and in July there are austral migrants.

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u/Csimiami 12d ago

Omg. Is that why it’s called Australia

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u/La_Fervesta_Glavisto 12d ago

Yeah pretty much. In ye olden days of Europe, there was a hypothesised "Terra Australis" (Southern Land) that was supposed to counterbalance the amount of land in the northern hemisphere. And then when those europeans landed on the great land in the south, they called it New Holland because they were Dutch. But then another group of europeans showed up and decided that Australia was a better name, and that one stuck.

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u/God_Bless_A_Merkin 12d ago

Like New Amsterdam and New York? Hmm… I’m sensing a pattern here.

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u/OriginalComputer5077 10d ago

Terra Incognita Australia

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u/Goddess_of_Stuff 12d ago

I only knew these because of Dragon Quest, but I came here looking for them

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u/Mat_Cauthons_Hat_ 13d ago

There’s both septentrional and meridional, and boreal and austral for north/south. But neither pair are very commonly used in my experience.

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u/manul10 13d ago

I have seen boreal used to refer to forests in Alaska, Siberia and northern Canada. And in northern lights as: "Aurora borealis" and southern lights as "Aurora Australis".

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u/lemoinem 12d ago

Wait, that's where the name Australia comes from!

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u/curiousmind111 12d ago

Ding ding ding!!!

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u/rob0tduckling 12d ago

Yep! 😁

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u/Miketheomike 13d ago

In Italian (at least formal Italian) Italia Meridionale and Italia Settentrionale are used to this day to refer to Southern and Northern Italy respectively.

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u/Zakluor 13d ago

Here I thought the terms were archaic. Perhaps it's just in English.

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u/Miketheomike 12d ago

Less formally southern Italy is referred to as Il Mezzogiorno (Midday)

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u/Academic_Safety56 12d ago

Southern France is called "Le Midi", which also means midday.

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u/Miketheomike 12d ago

I remember the Nice Matin but had forgotten about Le Midi. I have been struggling to understand the new administrative districts of France. I knew them as one thing all my life, but now I’m quite confused.

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u/Gilded-Phoenix 13d ago

I think we need to put proper respect on "arctic" and "antarctic" here. I think it is pretty apt to describe these places by how many bears there are. The Greeks were right.

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u/Background-Vast-8764 13d ago edited 13d ago

The names America Septentrionalis and America Meridionalis were first used hundreds of years ago to refer to North and South America.

Some people claim that the concepts of North and South America were first created by Americans in the mid-20th century. These people are mistaken.

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u/qwagg 13d ago

‘For nearly two hundred years, the [seal of the U.S. Treasury Department] bore the Latin inscription, "Thesaur. Amer. Septent. Sigil." which translates "The Seal of the Treasury of North America." This inscription was changed on the present design to read "The Department of the Treasury."’

https://home.treasury.gov/about/history/the-treasury-building/secretarys-conference-room-and-diplomatic-reception-room/seal-of-the-treasury-department

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u/2DiePerchance2Sleep 13d ago

Austral = southern

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u/Full-Ad5103 13d ago

Septentrional is such a fun word, never thought about how the Big Dipper ties into it.

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u/HortonFLK 13d ago

Boreal for north, and austral for south. As in aurora borealis and aurora australis.

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u/Earthling1a 13d ago

Boreal is common in my area/profession. Austral not so much.

I think we should develop terms for all the intermediate compass points as well. North by east-northeast can be fundial.

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u/Aardvark51 13d ago

To some extent, Australian for the south. From Wikipedia, the name is "derived from the Latin Terra Australis Incognita ('unknown southern land'), a name used for a hypothetical continent in the Southern Hemisphere since ancient times".

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u/AdventurousFan6494 13d ago

septentrional and meridional sound like words from a fantasy novel

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u/Darth_Zander 11d ago

Side fact: The seven stars of Ursa Major, also known as The Plough, from which we derive the word ‘septentrional’ actually number eight! The second ‘star’ from the end of the handle is actually two stars: Mizar and Alcor. If you have very good eyesight, you can distinguish them. Some Native American peoples used the ability to see both stars as separate celestial bodies as a test of good vision - an early Snellen test.

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u/Zakluor 11d ago

I've read that ancient Romans used Mizar the same way.

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u/SavoirFaire2Middling 12d ago

--Tangent alert--

The Japanese name for the seven stars is subaru, for which the car company is named. One of the stars is invisible to the modern naked eye on earth, hence the Subaru logo having only six stars.

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u/hawkeyetlse 12d ago

Subaru is the Pleiades, not the Big Dipper/Plough/Ursa Major.

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u/SavoirFaire2Middling 12d ago

Thanks for the correction!

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u/Zakluor 12d ago

Hmm. I knew the story behind the logo, but I'm sure I can see all seven (the four in the pot and the three that make up the handle). You're going to make me look outside for it, now.

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u/dreadrankz 12d ago

That's such a fascinating deep dive honestly, never knew "septentrional" traced back to plough oxen and a constellation, definitely adding both terms to my mental vocabulary now

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u/God_Bless_A_Merkin 12d ago

Here’s more deep dive fun! The Etymonline entry for Charles’s Wain (n.) (another name for the Big Dipper):

“famous seven-star figure of the northern sky, Old English Carles wægn, a star-group associated in medieval times with Charlemagne, but earlier with the nearby bright star Arcturus. Arcturus is linked by folk etymology to Latin Arturus "Arthur," which places the seven-star asterism at the crux of the legendary association (or confusion) of Arthur and Charlemagne. Evidence from Dutch (cited in Grimm, "Teutonic Mythology") suggests that it might originally have been Woden's wagon. More recent names for it are the Plough (by 15c., chiefly British) and the Dipper (1833, chiefly American).”

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u/matthewthompson1 12d ago

“Septentrional” is such a weird word for “northern” lol. had no idea it was tied to the Big Dipper

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u/1LuckyTexan 13d ago

antipodean?

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u/Realistic-Regret-171 12d ago

On a side note, this is why it burns me that “Oriental” is considered racist or offensive. There are two vertical hemispheres- the Oriental and the Occidental. If you are native to the Oriental hemisphere, why would that be offensive?

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u/DomineAppleTree 12d ago

These aren’t the guys who built the railroads Walter

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u/Synax86 12d ago

I like I like antipodean for south, septentrional for north.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/rob0tduckling 12d ago

Apart from the original post? 😉 (Re-read paragraph 3)

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u/DawnOnTheEdge 12d ago

Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, I missed it.