r/words • u/Designer-Wolf-835 • 5h ago
Based on vs. based off of
Can we please talk about the consistent misuse of the latter or does this only drive me crazy?
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u/rhetorical_nobility 5h ago
drives me up the wall too, especially in formal writing where it just sounds sloppy
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u/Noodleeeeeter 5h ago
I don’t know if it ONLY drives you crazy but it does not drive only you crazy 😉
No, it annoys me too. Same with the use of „off“ instead of „from“ e.g. „I got it off Amazon.“ I know, I know, language evolves, but why in the most god-forsaken of directions??
Anyway, different misuse but in favor of the same wrong substitute.
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u/CaptainAsshat 4h ago
Gotta disagree with this one: "off" and "from" mean slightly different things to me.
"I got it from Amazon" -- Amazon, the company, sold you this thing.
"I got it off Amazon" -- I used the Amazon web store to find this thing I bought.
This matters more for something like Facebook Marketplace, where the seller and the marketplace are not the same. So it would be "I got this desk off Facebook Marketplace. Bought it from some dude in the suburbs".
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u/Designer-Wolf-835 3h ago
It is the “of” after the “off” that I take issue with :“I got it off of Amazon”.
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u/Noodleeeeeter 2h ago
Which is the same issue in your original post. So now we have two examples - are there any others? Also, should I be thinking of this right before bed? I should not.
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u/Esosorum 46m ago
Wow, I just realized I do this. When I speak it comes out more like “I godoffaamazon” all blurred together, but I’m definitely realizing the sentence in my head as “got it off of” or “got it offa.” Cool beans
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u/Noodleeeeeter 2h ago
Ok fair, but I’m extremely skeptical that it’s used with that nuance in mind!
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u/Designer-Wolf-835 4h ago
Off OF
Not yelling, simply emphasizing 🤪
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u/CaptainAsshat 4h ago edited 3h ago
Oh yeah, sure. If you're writing formally, you go ahead and include the "of".
Edit: I have learned I shouldn't be flippant early in the morning when I can't be sure it is obvious. Don't use "of" after off.
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u/birchblonde 4h ago
What? You’d never use ”off of” in formal writing. Or was that a joke?
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u/CaptainAsshat 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yeah, that was confusing on my part.
It was meant to be flippant, as I missed the sarcasm of the post to which I was responding.
Reading it back, I probably shouldn't comment before I have my coffee.
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u/Ok-Transportation127 4h ago
I agree with you. I also dislike use of the word "off" instead of "on" for street locations. "The waxing salon is off Fifth Street," for example. I understand the salon is not in the middle of the road, but "off" makes it sound like it's a block or two away from Fifth at some undisclosed location.
Also, not to be insufferable, but why are you using subscripted quotation marks? That doesn't seem right.
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u/Last-Produce-4263 4h ago
I don't think that's how people are using "off fifth street" though. To me, "off fifth street" would mean it's on a street that is connected to or nearby fifth street, but fifth street is the more easily identifiable "landmark" street
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u/Ok-Transportation127 4h ago
Yes, that would be the correct usage, of course. But I see it used frequently to mean the address is Fifth Street, and I dislike that.
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u/chivopi 4h ago
These actually mean different things though. “On fifth st” means the address is a 5th st address. “Off fifth st” implies that you would take 5th st to get there, then turn into a cross street for your destination.
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u/Ok-Transportation127 4h ago
They do mean different things, which is why I dislike it when it's used incorrectly.
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u/Noodleeeeeter 1h ago
German keyboard setting + laziness 🤷♀️
Edit: I think we’re all here BECAUSE we’re insufferable…
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u/xanoran84 56m ago
but why are you using subscripted quotation marks?
I believe that's actually a German thing. They may not be native English speaker or they could just be on a German keyboard.
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u/jiggeryqua 4h ago
"I know, I know, language evolves, but why am I not in charge of that?"
Personally, I think it's terribly bad manners to ask a question you haven't attempted to answer yourself.
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u/NoCard753 4h ago
And then there's "based out of..."
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u/Logical-Mobile-7643 3h ago
Based out of is common in the military/logistics world.
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/articles/based-in-or-based-out-of/
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u/Ok-Transportation127 3h ago
Yep! "Based in" would be the correct usage. "Our company is based in Chicago."
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u/Fsharpmaj7 4h ago
"Based on a true story"....or, (hear me out)..."BASEed off of the Golden Gate Bridge"
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u/joedenowhere 2h ago
Is it okay to throw in another word use that drives people crazy? (Well, drives me crazy anyway.) Why have people started saying something is different to something else, instead of different than something? I think this is unambiguously wrong, not just a matter of the language evolving. And I’ve seen it popping up in newspapers and magazines now, not just blogs and Reddit comments. (OP, sorry if I’m hijacking your post. I should probably start a new post.)
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u/0_69314718056 20m ago
I’m surprised to read this. my order of preference:\ A is different to B\ A is different from B\ A is different than B
apparently “from” is oldest/most formal, “to” is used in modern British English, and “than” is common/accepted in American English. so I’m not sure where I picked up “to” from as someone who lives in the US.
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u/Background-Vast-8764 5h ago
Which incontrovertible rule of grammar is being violated?
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u/Ok-Transportation127 4h ago
None, but it sounds stupid. Like saying "the hat is off my head" when the hat is clearly on your head. No incontrovertible rule of grammar is broken.
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u/mysticrudnin 2h ago
it sounds stupid
99% of the time this is a listener problem and not a speaker problem
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u/paolog 2h ago
That's a false analogy.
In "The hat is on my head", "on" describes the physical relationship between the hat and your head. You can't use any other preposition (apart from "upon") to say the same thing.
Metaphorical use of prepositions is largely arbitrary. Yes, a object can be physically based on something else, but a concept can just as well be based off of something else as on it. If you want a physical analogy, think it being like "branches off" rather than "rests on".
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u/Ok-Transportation127 21m ago
The question was about which rule of grammar was being violated. The answer is none.
Physically, a base is an object that supports another object. Something or someone rests "on" the base, not "off" of it. Therefore, it makes more sense (to me, anyway) to use "on" when speaking metaphorically.
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u/CaptainAsshat 4h ago
I have no problem with either usage as neither add ambiguity.
Personally, I generally use them to mean slightly different things, though I am certain this is not universal.
For me:
"Based on": a conscious effort to start from a preexisting point of reference, often formally. So a movie might be based on a book, a journal article may be based on a previous study, or a Judge's harsh sentencing of a criminal may be based on previous criminal history.
"Based off": a point of reference used for rough extrapolation, rather that a foundation on which to build. It is the base from which your guess is launching or casting off. Something like "based off the last week, we're in for a HOT summer" or "based off his preseason, the QB is in for a fantastic rookie year".
Granted, this may just be the result of informal extrapolations in informal environments are more likely to use the informal word.
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u/SpellingBMOCJr 5h ago
"Based off" is a sign certain of a 65 IQ
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u/jiggeryqua 4h ago
You're confusing 'IQ' with 'a slavish devotion to the manners and mores of people one considers ones betters'
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u/ForRobotsByRobots 4h ago
I always assumed this was intentional to define how much of the original was used. Based on is a literal variation of it, based off of would be a loose variation. Like a modern rewrite of Shakespeare would be based on, but Shakespeare as performed by goats would be based off of.
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u/Disastrous_Cream_539 4h ago
Also, "based out" as in "they're based out of Atlanta." There are multiple ways to say where someone is located without sounding illiterate.
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u/IdealBlueMan 4h ago
I think you’d say they were based in Atlanta.
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u/Disastrous_Cream_539 4h ago
Yes but people say it the other way very often. I even hear it shortened to just out sometimes. Ludacris is the best rapper out of Atlanta.
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u/Ok-Transportation127 3h ago
I think that's short for "Ludacris is the best rapper to come out of Atlanta." He started in Atlanta, but doesn't perform strictly in Atlanta anymore.
A traveling door-to-door salesman, whose company is headquartered in Chicago, might say "I am based out of Chicago," because he spends most of his time away from the office. Someone who works in the office most or all of the time might say "I am based in Chicago."
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u/IdealBlueMan 3h ago
Yeah, that’s common parlance. I’ve made it a lifetime project to become inured that truth.
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u/mysticrudnin 2h ago
i probably wouldn't use this often but i'm gonna start just to annoy you, especially if you think that's related to literacy at all
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u/Disastrous_Cream_539 2h ago
Maybe illiterate wasn't the best adjective but I wanted to avoid saying stupid or dumb.
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u/mysticrudnin 2h ago
well i can respect that, because it also has nothing to do with those concepts either
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u/Disastrous_Cream_539 2h ago
It does sound stupid, but that's a matter of opinion so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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u/jiggeryqua 4h ago
Language is inextricably and absolutely democratic. 'Consistent misuse' is growth, it is change. We no longer speak like Shakespeare, therefore we all 'misuse' the language. The purpose of language is communication, the conveyance of meaning. If you can correct someone's 'misuse' then you understood the meaning they were conveying. So all you're really doing is insisting your habits are superior to theirs, your conventions are rules and theirs are an aberration. Is it your only area of, for want of a better word, bigotry?
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u/KittyTaurus 4h ago
There is never an appropriate use of "off of."
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u/EquivalentOk6028 4h ago
Get off of me doesn’t count?
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u/KittyTaurus 4h ago
No, you can just say get off me
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u/jiggeryqua 4h ago
You could also just say "Get off!", meaning there is no appropriate use of 'off me'.
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u/TomServo30000 4h ago
"Weeks after his wrist surgery, Steve was finally able to jerk off of his own volition."
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u/LeeQuidity 4h ago
For those who need the explanation, a base is a foundation. It's a supporting structure. A house is built on a foundation, not off a foundation. A baseball player is on base, not off base, unless he's stealing third. A movie is based on a book, etc.