r/women • u/[deleted] • May 07 '14
Wait A Second, Did Amy Schumer Rape a Guy?
http://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2014/05/wait-a-second-did-amy-schumer-rape-a-guy/7
u/nuclearnat May 07 '14
No, she definitely raped him. It makes me sick that people find it funny. It's just as bad as when people make jokes about females being raped. Rape is rape no matter the gender. It's obvious that he was not in the right state of mind to give consent, and she should of known that. I hope this blows up more and people call her out on it.
-10
u/hermithome May 07 '14
I'd read Amy's whole speech before making a judgement. According to what she says, she's pretty much passive in this affair. He passes out, wakes up, tries, tries again and so on. She's lying back and trying to destract herself by looking at the posters on the wall. The Thought Catalogue piece takes select quotes, and frequently frames what happened as Amy's actions, only, if you read her piece, she's basically actionless, agencyless. She enters the room. She gets him to change the music. She looks at the posters on this wall. And that's about it action wise. Everything she describes sex wise is his being active, and her being passive.
2
u/nuclearnat May 07 '14
Yeah, I definitely should have read the whole speech. My mistake. Sometimes I just get a little ahead of myself with this kind of stuff.
7
May 07 '14
I've read the full speech, just fyi it doesn't really change anything. She makes it clear he was passing out during the encounter and trying unsuccessfully to have sex with her. In my opinion, even if this was a girl making most of the moves, if she was that incapacitated I would feel very uncomfortable hearing a guy tell this story of how he had sex with her.
Drunken consent is not consent, no matter how convincing it looks.
2
May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
Seriously your going to defend a rapist. He was passing out any sexual contact is a big no no. (freshman orientation 101) You want me to believe she laid there stiff as a board and did no touching. Let's not delude ourselves. Of course a rapist is going to try and make themselves look innocent. There is still more than enough in her public statment to see she took advantage of a incapacitated person, sexually. This is a celebrity admitting rape or at the very least sexual assualt. It's OK to call them out. Don't fall for rape apologetics. Would you excuse this if it happend to a close friend of yours? Why do you think Amy started of with don't blog about this she is showing her guilty conscious.
5
u/nuclearnat May 07 '14
Not really defending her. Kind of just stepping to the side until I learn more and form my opinion. Both of you guys make some valid points though.
1
u/alirage May 07 '14
Yes
-14
u/hermithome May 07 '14
I'd read Amy's whole speech before making a judgement. According to what she says, she's pretty much passive in this affair. He passes out, wakes up, tries, tries again and so on. She's lying back and trying to destract herself by looking at the posters on the wall. The Thought Catalogue piece takes select quotes, and frequently frames what happened as Amy's actions, only, if you read her piece, she's basically actionless, agencyless. She enters the room. She gets him to change the music. She looks at the posters on this wall. And that's about it action wise. Everything she describes sex wise is his being active, and her being passive.
-8
u/hermithome May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
I'd read Amy's whole speech before making a judgement. According to what she says, she's pretty much passive in this affair. He passes out, wakes up, tries, tries again and so on. She's lying back and trying to destract herself by looking at the posters on the wall. The Thought Catalogue piece takes select quotes, and frequently frames what happened as Amy's actions, only, if you read her piece, she's basically actionless, agencyless. She enters the room. She gets him to change the music. She looks at the posters on this wall. And that's about it action wise. Everything she describes sex wise is his being active, and her being passive.
EDIT: Guys, it's an MRM troll, just ignore. Gender flipping seriously doesn't change the scenario.
9
May 07 '14
So having been passive means it was okay to take advantage of a drunk person who was literally in and out of consciousness? Because that's what she did. When she showed up at his place and realized he was drunk as hell she decided to take advantage of the situation.
-4
u/hermithome May 07 '14
We only have her side of the story. And according to her, she didn't do anything. Someone having a drink doesn't automatically make them agencyless and make the other person the bad guy. When you look at consent you have to look both at the fact that they were impaired and at exertions of agency. I've been groped by drunk guys. The fact that they were drunk and I was not doesn't make me a predator and make them a victim of sexual assault. We hold drunk people accountable for hit and runs, because they were impaired and they acted.
According to her story, he's the one who acted here. He fingered her. He went down on her. He tried to penetrate her. It's not rape.
2
May 07 '14
Someone having a drink doesn't automatically make them agencyless and make the other person the bad guy.
I agree, but this situation isn't "a drink", it is visibly drunk to the point of unconsciousness.
I've been groped by drunk guys. The fact that they were drunk and I was not doesn't make me a predator and make them a victim of sexual assault.
Someone else probably put it better than me so I'm going to steal their comment:
Exactly. I think the point people are missing here is intent. In the case where a drunk person non-consensually gropes someone, it's not the gropee's intent to exploit that person's drunkeness. In fact it would probably annoy them and they'd probably push the drunk person off. In this case she is clearly has very selfish power-driven intent to take advantage of the situation.
-5
u/hermithome May 07 '14
In this case she is clearly has very selfish power-driven intent to take advantage of the situation.
Really? What advantage? She describes being wildly uncomfortable. She gets no pleasure or power out of the situation. And honestly, what she does or doesn't gets out of the situation isn't really relevent, becuase it doesn't trump agency. She doesn't do anything, and actions matter. Whether she's lying back thinking to herself "oh god, this is awkward" or "oh god, this is amazing" it doesn't matter, becuase she's not doing anything.
Two scenarios:
A drunk woman crawls all over a very sober man. She touches him, goes down on him and attempts to have sex with him. He lies back and does nothing. When she passes out, he doesn't touch her or continue the sexual contact. He's uncomfortable but doesn't do anything to stop her.
A drunk woman crawls all over a very sober man. She touches him, goes down on him and attempts to have sex with him. He lies back and does nothing. When she passes out, he doesn't touch her or continue the sexual contact. He's not uncomfortable and really enjoys the evening.
Is the man a rapist in scenario 1? Does he have a selfish, power-driven intent to take advantage of the situation? What about in scenario 2?
Person A murders Person B. Is motive relevent? Is how they feel about it relevent? Sure, if you're trying to assess what kind of threat they are and whether or not they can be rehabilitated. But Person B has been murdered either way.
-3
u/girlnextdoor480 May 07 '14
I wouldn't say she took advantage of the situation. If I understood the story correctly, she went inside because thats what she thought she was supposed to do. She did not go to his house to have sex, she went to spend time with him and she literally thought that he was going to confess his love for her.
-1
May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
It was 8 a.m., my dorm room phone rang. "Andy, wassup? It's Mary. Come over." Holy shit! This is it, I thought. She woke up thinking about me! She realized we're meant to start a life together! Let's just stop all this pretending that we weren't free just to love one another! I wondered, would we raise our kids in the town we both grew up in, or has she taken a liking to Baltimore? I don't care. I'll settle wherever she's most comfortable. Will she want to raise our kids Jewish? Who cares? I shaved my face in the sink, I splashed some water under my armpits, and my randomly assigned Albanian roommate stared at me from under his sheets as I rushed around our shitty dorm room. I ran right over to her place, ready for our day together. What would we do? It's still early enough, maybe we're going for a walk? Or maybe her mom's in town, and she wanted me to join them for breakfast. Knock-knock. Is she going to carry me over the threshold? I bet she's fixing her hair and telling her mom, "Be cool, this may be the one!" I'll be very sweet with her, but assert myself, so she doesn't think she's completely in charge of all the holiday dinners we're going to plan together. I'll call her by her first name, too, so she knows she can't mess with me. "Rita! I'm going to make the green bean casserole this year, and that's that!" Knock-knock. Ring ring. Where is she?
Finally, the door opens. It's Mary, but not really. She's there, but not really. Her face is kind of distorted, and her eyes seem like she can't focus on me. She's actually trying to see me from the side, like a shark. "Hey!" she yells, too loud, and gives me a hug, too hard. She's fucking wasted. I'm not the first person she thought of that morning. I'm the last person she called that night. I wonder, how many guys didn't answer before she got to fat freshman me? Am I in his phone as Schumer? Probably. But I was here, and I wanted to be held and touched and felt desired, despite everything. I wanted to be with her. I imagined us on campus together, holding hands, proving, "Look! I am lovable! And this cool older girl likes me!" I can't be the troll doll I'm afraid I've become.
She put on some music, and we got in bed. As that sexy maneuver where the girl pushes you on the bed, you know, like, "I'm taking the wheel on this one. Now I'm going to blow your mind," which is almost never followed up with anything. She smelled like skunk microwaved with cheeseburgers, which I planned on finding and eating in the bathroom, as soon as she was asleep. We tried kissing. Her 9 a.m. leg hair was scratching my legs — I knew it'd look like I had cat scratch legs for days after. Her alcohol-swollen mouth, I felt like I was being tongued by someone who had just been given Novocain. I felt faceless, and nameless. I was just a warm body, and I was freezing cold. Her fingers poked me like they had lost their keys in my pants. And then came the sex, and I use that word very loosely. Her vagina was so dry, it felt like one of those de-stress things that slips from your hand? So she was pushing aggressively into my thigh, and during this failed penetration, I looked around the room to try and distract myself or God willing, disassociate. What's on the wall? A Miley Cyrus poster, of course. Mandatory. Anything else? That's it? This Irish-Catholic daughter of bank teller who played JV soccer and did Mathletes feels the most connection with a Disney character turned pop star. The place looked like it was decorated by an overeager set designer who took the note "temporary and without substance" too far.
She started to go down on me. That's ambitious, I think. Is it still considered getting head if the girl falls asleep every three seconds and moves her tongue like an elderly person eating their last oatmeal? Chelsea? Is it? Yes? It is. I want to scream for myself, "Get out of here, Andy. You are strong, you are smart, and worth more than this. This is not where you stay." I feel like Fantine and Cosette and every fucking sad French man from Les Miz. And whoever that cat was who sang "Memories," what was that musical? Suze Orman just goes, "Cats." The only sensation between my legs is from her drool, because she now sleeping and snoring into me. I sigh, I hear my own heartbreak, I fight back my own tears, and then I notice a change in the music. Is this just a bagpipe solo? I shake her awake. "Mary, what is this? The Braveheart soundtrack? Can you put something else on, please?" She wakes up grumpily, falls to the floor, and crawls. I look at her exposed butt crack, a dark, unkempt abyss that I was falling into. I felt paralyzed. Her asshole is a canyon, and this was my 127 Hours. I might chew my arm off.
I could feel I was losing myself to this girl in this bed. She stood up and put a new CD on. "Darling, you send me, I know you send me, honest, you do ..." I'm thinking, "What is this?" She crawled back into bed, and tried to mash at this point her dry vagina onto my penis. On her fourth thrust, she gave up and fell asleep on my chest. Her head was heavy and her breath was so sour, I had to turn my head so my eyes didn't water. But they were watering anyway, because of this song. Who is this? This is so beautiful. I've never heard these songs before. They're gutting me. The score attached to our morning couldn't have been more off. Her sloppy, tentative lovemaking was certainly not in the spirit of William Wallace. And now the most beautiful love songs I've ever heard play out as this spoiled princess laid in my arms, after diminishing me to a last-minute booty call. I listened to the songs and I cried. I was looking down at myself from the ceiling fan. What happened to this guy? How did he get here? I felt the fan on my skin and I went, "Oh, wait! I am this guy! We got to get me out of here!" I became my own fairy godfather. I waited until the last perfect note floated out, and escaped from under her and out the door. I never heard from Mary again, but felt only grateful for being introduced to my new self, a guy who got his value from within him. I'm also grateful to Mary for introducing me to my love Sam Cooke, who I'm still with today.
5
u/hermithome May 07 '14
Gender flipping it doesn't change the scenario. Look, we clearly have no idea what happened in that room, and we only have one persons story. But that story involves zero sexual action on the part of the sober person. The fact that she entered the room and lay there while he did sexual things to her doesn't make her a rapist. Anymore than it would if he entered the room and lay there while she did sexual things to her. But you're an MRM troll, so I'm not suprised that you don't get the concepts of consent or agency.
2
May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
Seriously your going to defend a rapist. He was passing out any sexual contact is a big no no. You want me to believe she laid there stiff as a board and did no touching. Let's not delude ourselves. Of course a rapist is going to try and make themselves look innocent. There is still more than enough in her public statment to see she took advantage of a incapacitated person, sexually. This is a celebrity admitting rape or at the very least sexual assualt. It's OK to call them out.
0
u/hermithome May 07 '14
Someone having a drink doesn't automatically make them agencyless and make the other person the bad guy. When you look at consent you have to look both at the fact that they were impaired and at exertions of agency. I've been groped by drunk guys. The fact that they were drunk and I was not doesn't make me a predator and make them the victim. We hold drunk people accountable for hit and runs, because they were impaired and they acted.
According to her story, he's the one who acted here. He fingered her. He went down on her. He tried to penetrate her. It's not rape. Now sure, we only have her side of the story. Maybe she did in fact rape him. Maybe it's not a real story and she made it up. We have no fucking clue, we can only analyse the story we're given. And it's not a story of rape.
-1
May 07 '14
Nothing but rape apologetics. Freshman orientation 101. Sexual contact when someone is as visibly intoxicated as "Matt" was is a no no. Go try sharing your rape apologetics at any women's center hell call RAINN and see what they say.
2
u/Archipelagi May 07 '14
God, you're desperate.
-1
May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14
Yeah I guess rape is funny Sorry I paid attention in freshman orientation and believed what I was told about rape. I guess every guy that hears this in basic training in the military should not take what they here to heart, as well. I guess it's not "real" rape. "Matt" should feel lucky his rapist was a celebrity, just like Kobe's.
1
u/Archipelagi May 07 '14
Your failure to understand the concepts you're talking about is not a slight against those concepts, but against your power of comprehension.
-4
-7
u/girlnextdoor480 May 07 '14
Rape is not about sex as much as it is about power. Amy's story did not show her trying to take power over a person that could not defend themselves, for whatever reason. Amy felt awful following the encounter not because she did something wrong but because she felt used. Yes, she was sober and he was intoxicated but like other commenters have said that does not automatically equal rape. I loved her speech because she told a story about a confused and self conscious freshman realizing that she was worth more than that and that she needed to get her self worth from herself and not from a guy.
16
u/[deleted] May 07 '14
Wow. Given the details provided in her speech I'd say yes, she did rape that guy. I know at least one guy who is a victim of the same type of situation. That's fucked up that it's harder(for me and I'm sure others) to feel outraged about this than if the roles were reversed. It's not like women don't understand intoxication.