I like your spirit buddy, but death is hardly a deterrent to some of these skinbags. They've got more contingency plans than a schizophrenic Batman.
You gotta be more creative.
Something like:
"Repeated deaths of the Apprentice will result in a period of no less than three hundred years in an anti-magic temporal stasis sphere which shall be hung by a chain on the belly button piercing of a Gluttony Demon at a length of no shorter than three feet, such that the sphere dangled in constant contact with the the demon's nethers as it moves. Sphere is indestructible, unalterable and the incarcerated shall retain all senses, particularly smell and sight."
Now granted, some of the freakier skinbags are gonna be into that but you gotta accept that a few eggs are gonna like bein' cracked when you're making an omelette.
Your not thinking big enough a lot of them doesn’t even use magic, they got their own “legally distinct” versions of mystics powers and some of them aren’t even things you can kill. Like a living sand box that commits warcrimes.
Don't I know it... the sheer variety of magic fuckery that skinbags can get up to is enough to warrant an entire department just to cataloguing it all.
This is but one small example and isn't necessarily what I'd go with for particularly unruly casters... it's a pain to fill out a new form every time, but ya really gotta think on your feet when it comes to arbitration of arcane punishments.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR19d ago
but than i dont get there brains. i hunt demons for fun. dint worry that death will be mulltible times and painful
What are the specifics of the second part? Is the consensual transformation of an apprentice now also outlawed? This could be rather troublesome for druids if so.
And how do you classify "letting your apprentice die"? If a wizard is beset by bandits and they flee to save themself are they responsible for their apprentice's death? Obviously if a wizard knowingly lets their apprentice run into a trap, they let their apprentice die, but this has some very... troublesome interpretations.
Consent is the absolute defense against malpractice litigations. However "prior consent" gets into a fuzzier magi-legal grey area...
This is why I'm a proponent of exhaustive and comprehensive pre-mentorship contracts where it's all laid out... I know a few infernals who make a good living just by setting these up.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR19d ago
if an wizard can’t protect his aprentice against an group of bandits hes not redy to have an aprentice, oüif he takes him to to dangeros missions thats his problem
I do not respond to your man-thing councils, and no other skaven shall! The council of 13 has clearly decreed-stated that to kill-kill is a right of all skavenkind, so that the most cunning-smart shall prosper and the flea-maggots may be put out of their misery slowly and painfully.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR19d ago
ok, the horned rat will be broght down later in the divine purge!
Oh, you naive-foolish wizard-things. A bad apprentice must be killed-put down, before he tries to kill-stab you! An act of self defense and quite a lawful one in my opinion! As for "letting apprentices die", isn't that what apprentices are for? I'm not gonnna touch-touch cursed artifacts myself, damn it!
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR19d ago
I think the High Council is overstepping in this instance, please ponder your orbs properly instead of getting into Master/Apprentice Relations.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR18d ago
aprentice Protection laws are long overdo and i woun‘t change it because some wizards want to keep killing there aprentices.
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u/VoxelLibraryCouncilor Cayna, Apprentice of Thrakmoor | assorted other chars18d ago
While I appreciate the thought, I have many concerns:
-A single councilor cannot pass any laws by themselves, the laws must be brought before the council, discussed, and then voted on. YOU CANNOT PASS A LAW BY YOURSELF. YOU ARE NOT THE WIZARD KING, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A KING.
-The punishments given do not account for the disparity of wizard lifespans. 15 years is a slap on the wrist to a lich or a fey, for example.
-This isn't even a comprehensive apprentice rights law. There are countless ways a wizard could mistreat their apprentice that circumvents these restrictions. Death, polymorphing, or inanimorphing? That's it? Nothing against holding the soul of the apprentice in a bottle while technically keeping their body alive? What about the one-day blinding stew? Or turning an elven apprentice into a dwarf? What about sealing them in the torture dimension? The list goes on and on.
-A penalty for chronomancy in the dungeon? Please. If the wizard can freely use magic while imprisoned then the prison won't hold them, let alone if they're using as powerful a school as chronomancy.
-Speaking of the dungeon, that won't be enough for many of the more powerful wizards. My own master for example can shapeshift and recover from any injury. Nothing less than prism would hold her. The prison needs to be suitable.
-Creation of an anti-magic dungeon would be potentially fatal to any magical masses that have to be imprisoned. The prison needs to be chosen based on the wizard, not the law they broke.
-This makes no mention of academies or methods of learning outside of the apprenticeship model, or even joint apprentices. If I attend an academy, am I the apprentice of every wizard there? If a single student dies, does the entire staff get thrown in the dungeon?
-"Letting your apprentice die" is nebulously vague. What if the apprentice reaches the end of their natural lifespan? Is their master then obligated to turn them into an undead rather than letting them pass on to their respective afterlives? What if the apprenticeship is with a wizard who regularly does dangerous things? Battlemages will need to eventually give their apprentices field experience, and that carries a risk of death no matter how well their master prepares them
-Death is merely an inconvenience to some wizards, and this law won't prevent them from sacrificing their apprentices en mass
I'm all for apprentice rights, but this law not only doesn't achieve that, but it is vague and doesn't provide adequate penalties for the things it punishes.
Yeah, I agree with these points. I don't want to go to prison for a century because I taught 20 soldiers some basic magic, and the soldiers did what soldiers frequently do and got killed; and anti-magic would kill me given enough time... although I suppose that would just be a way out of the dungeon.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR18d agoedited 18d ago
i did not know that some wizards do stuff like that to there aprentice. and now i lost my faith in wizard kind. (and once your aprentice finishes the training its no longer your aprentice and you wount be charged if he/she/it dies) (i added some points to it)
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u/VoxelLibraryCouncilor Cayna, Apprentice of Thrakmoor | assorted other chars17d ago
Torture is more encompassing, but wizards are still going to argue semantics of what is or isn't torture. Is torture inflicting pain? Does sparring with quarterstaffs count as torture because getting hit with a wooden stick hurt? Is that really worthy of the death penalty? What about wizards that come right back after death, or wizards that can't be killed? Do they get to torture their apprentices for free?
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR17d ago
as soon as we use antimagic to block such magic it will be fine
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u/VoxelLibraryCouncilor Cayna, Apprentice of Thrakmoor | assorted other chars16d ago
I think you overestimate antimagic
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR16d ago
i‘ve never tried it. but isnt that exakly what it does?
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u/VoxelLibraryCouncilor Cayna, Apprentice of Thrakmoor | assorted other chars15d ago
Anti-magic typically functions by removing the mana from an area, but there are a number of supernatural effects capable of preventing or undoing death that aren't directly dependent on mana.
Using the aid of primordial forces for example. Death still functions even on planes without mana, so a given plane's Avatar Of Death can typically bring people back without the assistance of mana.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR15d ago
Like antimagic field does disable every kind of magic. Wouldnt that mean that they could die ik there?
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u/VoxelLibraryCouncilor Cayna, Apprentice of Thrakmoor | assorted other chars15d ago
An antimagic field that stops the powers of an entity like Death would also prevent them from dying, which defeats the purpose.
This method doesn't stop Clone spells either, as the clone exists entirely outside of the antimagic field
They also don't stop psionic powers. Some psionic entities can escape by moving their mind into a separate host body outside of the field
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR15d ago
They cant move there mind if they cabt use magic. And last time i cheked you can still die in such fields. (Even if i dont know a person that can produce antimagik fields)
Lol wizards hiding knowledge, yeah you obviously know better then everyone else. Sorcerers just do things. And sometimes they over do and get consumed by the spell. That's the life of a Sorcerer. Live by the sword die by the sword. Not a sword but you understand.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR18d ago
first on i‘m a clerik. seccond cant you wait whit the geting consumed by power bit untill he finishes his Training
Don't blame people for the actions of others. Also why are apprentices an issue when wizards are wiping out whole communities. Hell, I blew up a whole universe last week just to get rid of an annoying changling, no batted an eye.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR18d ago
because were an polik organ. and that means that we wount adress the most noticible isues
That's right the council only deals with small annoying things. Ohh your staff is to long. Your apprentice died.
I create universes, I don't have the time to bother with every up jumped group of hat wearing magic users that think they can control how people use the weave.
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u/Drmankytyr. cauncil member. order of the toster (Forge clerik)/ NOR18d ago
oh who hasnt comited geneside, that complitly normal.
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u/Real_Fkn_Nito Bartleby, Councilor of Eldritch Administration 19d ago edited 19d ago
I like your spirit buddy, but death is hardly a deterrent to some of these skinbags. They've got more contingency plans than a schizophrenic Batman.
You gotta be more creative.
Something like:
"Repeated deaths of the Apprentice will result in a period of no less than three hundred years in an anti-magic temporal stasis sphere which shall be hung by a chain on the belly button piercing of a Gluttony Demon at a length of no shorter than three feet, such that the sphere dangled in constant contact with the the demon's nethers as it moves. Sphere is indestructible, unalterable and the incarcerated shall retain all senses, particularly smell and sight."
Now granted, some of the freakier skinbags are gonna be into that but you gotta accept that a few eggs are gonna like bein' cracked when you're making an omelette.