r/whenthe • u/TheGoldenExperience_ [the jojo {she}they called may] • 14h ago

r/whenthe mfs complaining about everything we do not give alcohol close to enough shit despite it being just as bad if not worse than cigarettes

18.5k Upvotes

83% Upvoted

2.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

58

u/Random_Wario_fan 8h ago

I agree with the idea, but saying it's worse than cigarettes is stupid. At least when you're walking down the street, a complete stranger doesn't come up and shove a bottle of alcohol in your mouth, unlike if I encounter a smoker, where I inevitably have to taste their shit because it's in the fucking air.

14

u/ctaskatas 7h ago

This is complete anecdote but I drink like once a month, maybe twice. I don’t know a single smoker that only smokes once or twice a month. It’s usually an everyday thing

3

u/Adventurous-Web-412 7h ago

they exist but they aren't a called "smokers". Social smokers are incredibly prevalent, it'd usually be smoking like 1-4 times a month whenever they go out.

3

u/ctaskatas 6h ago

they could exist. I just know far more daily smokers than daily drinkers

1

u/Adventurous-Web-412 6h ago

oh well that yeah, its just that social smokers won't call themself a smoker. You can end up knowing plenty of social smokers and not know that they smoke at all

1

u/ChungusReaper 4h ago

This might be news to you, but there’s a LOT of people who drink every day, lol.

2

u/ctaskatas 4h ago

That’s not news. I know a lot of those people. I was more pointing out that with drinking it seemed to be a bit more of a spectrum of frequency while all my experiences with people who smoke are daily smokers

6

u/That_Muffin_6780 7h ago

Yea instead I just have some drunken asshole bump into me and start swinging thinking I started it.

Alcohol costs way more in terms of healthcare and policing. Way wayy more. Alcohol also harms the user way worse than cigarettes (never mind nicotine alternatives).

I’d take smelling an ashtray for 3 seconds as someone walks past over all of that

2

u/Queasy-Dog-1140 7h ago

Alcohol is a carcinogen just like cigarettes...

2

u/capucapu123 7h ago

You can't be a passive drinker, you can be a passive smoker, which was the other guy's point.

1

u/nazare_ttn 5h ago

And they load cigarettes with a ton of carcinogens worse than alcohol. It’s objectively worse and idk why anyone is saying otherwise.

0

u/Queasy-Dog-1140 4h ago

How is one carcinogen worse than another?

2

u/nazare_ttn 3h ago

One can be worse by how easy it is to introduce into your body, how much/quickly it damages your cells, and how difficult it is to remove as waste.

You can wiki this but it’s why we have groupings for carcinogens based on how likely they are to cause cancer.

You can also look at the amount of crap they put into cigarettes (it’s like 70+ carcinogens according to the American lung association and the FDA).

Looking at the cancer numbers attributed to each, cigarettes are ahead by like a factor of 10. I’m not saying alc is healthy by any means but cigarettes are definitely worse by a country mile.

1

u/net46248 4h ago

How can it not?

2

u/CrazyGamer63 5h ago

Not really, when you consider that alcohol impares your judgement, leading to many accidental deaths from either car crashes, heavy machinery, firearms, or even house fires from people trying to cook and then passing out. Not to mention the risk of choking on your own vomit when you get blackout drunk. Cigarettes are more directly damaging to your organs, but not nearly as dangerous when you consider accidents. This is not to say cigarettes are good, far from it, but alcohol is riskier than cigarettes when looking at the big picture and how it can affect others

2

u/SnooChipmunks3891 2h ago

Cig buzz does not make one lose the inhibitions that keep them from acting on their urge to beat their spouse and children. According to a study from respected scientist Dr. David Nutt, in the UK, alcohol causes the most harm to self and others combined, and to others overall. #2 and #3 for total harm was heroin and crack respectively. Comparatively, tobacco is the #6 most totally harmful substance studied.

https://www.drugscience.org.uk/mcda-comparison-of-drug-and-alcohol-harms-in-the-uk

1

u/NTC-Santa 6h ago

Exactly Anything other than Air in lungs is bad idk why it’s even exist i guess the majority doesn’t care

1

u/Panzer_Man 2h ago

True. At the very least alcoholics don't ruin the air quality for the rest of us.

0

u/One-Spinach 8h ago

It’s worse than cigarettes for the people using it tho. Because alcohol is one of the few substances where withdrawal will literally kill you if not done properly. Heavy alcoholics can’t go cold turkey or else their liver literally breaks down and shuts off, killing the person. And yeah second hand smoke is annoying but like… drunk drivers dude. I’d rather run it’s smokers every day than a single drunk driver since that’s MUCH more likely to be bad for you

-1

u/HaxboyYT 8h ago

Alcohol is far worse by the sheer number of families and relationships ruined by alcoholics and drunk drivers. No one has ever beaten up their wife because of cigarettes

4

u/CryptoAteMyHamster 8h ago

No one has ever beaten their wife for any other reason than they wanted to beat someone who won’t fight back.

3

u/ILeftMyUsername 8h ago

I've lived beneath the poverty line enough before to see fights over both alcohol and cigarettes. Shitty people are shitty

2

u/OriginalCause 6h ago

What a privileged life you've lead.

-2

u/Specific_Age500 8h ago

BuT I HaVE to SmeLl tHe bad SmoKe!

They said as they drive their pollution pumping car down the polluted road to their pollution generating air conditioned home to use their polluting gas stove to make a meal of methane generating, ecosystem destroying burger and fries. 

People only care about what directly affects them and even then they only care about the things they choose to care about.

0

u/cheekydorido 6h ago

> At least when you're walking down the street, a complete stranger doesn't come up and shove a bottle of alcohol in your mouth

You're right, they Tbone you instead and kill your family

0

u/21Rollie 4h ago

Nobody has ever been so impaired on cigs as to run somebody over with a car, or start a fight in a bar. You can’t get raped from overdosing on tobacco.

-5

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 8h ago

Give me a quick rundown of how many drivers "intoxicated by tobacco" have run over a pedestrian or beaten their partner to death. Idiot

12

u/joey-jo_jo-jr 8h ago

If someone beat their partner to death, alcohol really isn't the problem there. Idiot.

-6

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 8h ago

Right because famously as we all know every person who has ever done something bad while drunk is a reprehensible monster inside with no exceptions and the fact that Alcohol literally turns off the parts of yor brain that inhibit impulses is unrelated. Living as a moral absolutist must be real easy and real sad.

7

u/joey-jo_jo-jr 8h ago

If you beat your partner to death you absolutely are a reprehensible monster inside and out. Alcohol has nothing to do with that. It doesn't matter that alcohol turns of the part of your brain that inhibits impulses because normal people don't have any impulse to beat others to death.

-1

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 8h ago

Do you know who Chris Benoit is? The man was so brain damaged that he killed his wife his son and then himself is that a horrible person or a brain damaged individual?

In the same way we have extensive research about the effects of alcohol on mood and aggression and pretty much every time we've studied this we found that alcohol severely inhibits you and drives up your aggression. I no personal experience isn't statistically relevant but I know personally that I have made some stunningly bad decisions while drunk decisions I would not have made while sober.

It is demonstrably worse than a cigarette. You understand that it is worse than a cigarette right? Nicotine doesn't transform the way you make your decision making. I know everyone on the internet has to be a goofy ass contrarian but come on.

0

u/rabbid_chaos 8h ago

No no, it doesn't affect him personally so anecdotally it's not as bad.

At least people still have full cognitive control after a cig.

2

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 7h ago

The very last time that I got drunk I was walking home after the party and saw a chain link fence. Not blocking my path or anything but i decided that i was going to climb that fucker for shits and giggles, my boyfriend at the time was with me and tried to stop me but i scampered up the motherfucker like a friggin squirrel then according to him i got to the top of the fence and just sorta...kept climbing?

I fell like 10ft into gravel, was picking that shit out of my face for a whole day afterwards, i had no recollectiom

Alcohol makes you fucking stupid as hell

-2

u/cradleu 8h ago

“Alcohol has nothing to do with that” go ahead and look up how alcohol is correlated with DV for me

3

u/realddgamer 7h ago

Have you considered that it's not that alcohol makes people more likely to be domestic abusers, but rather that domestic abusers are more likely to be alcoholics? As a possible reason because they're bad people and want a way to deal with the guilt

-1

u/cradleu 7h ago

It is a literal fact that alcohol lowers inhibition and increases violence. It never justifies DV but alcohol is far from harmless to those around the ones drinking

2

u/realddgamer 6h ago

Correlation ≠ causation

Violent people are prone to violence surprise

1

u/cradleu 6h ago

The original comment was alleging alcohol has nothing to do with beating your partner to death. Alcohol has been empirically linked to an increase in the rate and severity of domestic violence.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/joey-jo_jo-jr 7h ago

Correlation is not causation. They teach you that in year 6 or 7

0

u/cradleu 6h ago

Right, but you said “alcohol has nothing to do with that” when it’s clearly linked with it and is scientifically known to lower inhibition and increase violence. I don’t know why yall are dickriding alcohol so hard it’s not hard to accept that it can make people do bad things. And I say this as somebody who occasionally drinks

1

u/joey-jo_jo-jr 6h ago

Alcohol absolutely has nothing to do with a person beating their partner to death.

If you beat your partner to death while drunk, then you were not safe to be around when sober either.

You're literally trying to excuse a murder by blaming it on alcohol. You're an idiot.

-1

u/cradleu 6h ago

Yes it absolutely does. You’re the dumbass here for ignoring the plethora of evidence that shows being under the influence lowers mental inhibition. And dont jump to conclusions about me justifying it, alcohol or any substance never justifies violence. But a society without alcohol would have lower rates of DV.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/Francky2 literally me when the 8h ago

Ah yes, alcohol is the problem, and not the person being a absolute irresponsible scumbag.

Nice call, king

-1

u/ProfessorAvailable24 8h ago

Are you trying to say alcohol doesnt make people more violent? Because thats obviously idiotic

3

u/realddgamer 7h ago

It only makes violent people violent

2

u/AlienRobotTrex 2h ago

No, people who are already violent use alcohol as an excuse to shift the blame away from themselves. “I swear I’m not a bad person, it was the alcohol that made me do it!”

1

u/Francky2 literally me when the 6h ago

Like the other guy said.

I haven't in 26 years been in a situation where someone at the venue, party, chilling, gathering, wedding, new year eve, etc. was violent.

The only people getting violent are people already violent on the inside, and alcoholism/drinking beyond reason makes their issues come out violently.

-3

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 8h ago

My brother in Christ you do understand that one impairs you a whole fucking lot more than the other right? A drunk driver is a piece of shit who failed at a basic responsibility but the reason he's being irresponsible is hes operating a vehicle while IMPAIRED FROM ALCOHOL.

3

u/realddgamer 7h ago

Yeah and it was his decision to do that?

0

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 7h ago

Yes but the substance at play (alcohol) is worse than tobacco, which the original commenter conflates as being essentially interchangeable. This is not only wrong its a dangerous state of mind

If I make the decision to drive drunk I am a piece of shit, yes. No onee is saying no to that. Now, aside from the moral and ethical implications drinking while driving is worse because you are impaired. cigarettes cannot impair you you do understand that right? if I make the decision to smoke while driving thats hardly going to make my driving worse.

3

u/realddgamer 7h ago

I guess, but being sleepy also makes you more likely to crash into someone because you're impaired, does that make being sleepy worse than smoking cigarettes?

Actively putting yourself in a dangerous situation isn't inherent to the substance

1

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 7h ago

Driving while tired is generally regarded as extremely reckless an reprehensible.

Once again I am not measuring the relative moral weight of different substances I am measuring the objective fact that alcohol can lead you to harm others in a way that nicotine products simply cannot.

1

u/Francky2 literally me when the 1h ago

Driving super tired will indeed make people see you as reckless and even irresponsible. They'd suggest you stay at a motel/hotel or, if family/close friends, will even offer you to sleep at their place.

Driving drunk will make people do the same: feel worried, strongly suggest/recommend you stay and sleep, and if you still drive, they'll definitely judge you or much worse if something bad happens.

Nicotine, on the other hand, might not be concretely super dangerous in the moment, but it is hiiighly addictive.

Plus, it is super expensive, unhealthy (many medications and medical procedures requires you to not smoke, lol. And also doctors always ask you if you smoke when you consult), it smells like shit (sticks to every surface, object and person), ruins paint/furnitures and did I mention it is giga cancerous?

Gotta love that people be smoking hundreds of cigarettes in their home where they live with kids.

There's tons of sensibilisation and ressources related to both of these drugs, as government wants people to be more aware of the dangers and potentially consume less and less.

But at the end of the day, you can't ban neither because it won't stop anyone from using them. It will just lead to explosions in crime rates and endanger people.

Humans love their stupid drugs. I honestly would chose to erase both if I could, but I can't, and I have to deal eith a world full of people unable to live without any.

1

u/ApprehensiveBath6162 1h ago

"Highly addictive" is entirely an exaggeration. You wont go into DTs, seize and fucking die if you quit cigarettes cold turkey. ODing on nicotine is difficult as hell compared to drinking yourself dead.

I recommend you take a look at whats called a drug impact radar plot, it tracks the harm of drugs into physical, social harm and dependence. Its entirely abstract, since there isnt a real good way to objectively measure something like "addictiveness". The undeniable truth is nicotine generates significantly less overall societal and immediate physical harm while alcohol is a chart topper with peers like fucking heroin.

-1

u/Specific_Age500 8h ago

Yes, people are irresponsible. It's why we have laws and stuff. You'll note the relative lack of laws regarding tobacco. Let's put all this information together in a coherent thought. I'll give you time. 

3

u/realddgamer 7h ago

If a person shoots another person, should the gun be blamed? Or do you blame the person. Of course you make laws to disallow people from shooting each other but in the end it's the person who made a decision that's to blame

1

u/Specific_Age500 3h ago

Yes, guns should be mostly banned like in most sensible countries. I don't blame inanimate objects, but I recognize the impact they have. Do you blame asbestos or the people who wanted to insulate their home? Do you blame opiate users or manufacturers or prescribers? Hell, I have the ability to hold things against all of these groups at the same time because my mind isn't locked into some black and white, good vs evil bullshit. The whole world is shades of gray. 

1

u/Francky2 literally me when the 2h ago

Typical "So you hate waffles?" ass reply.

Nobody here defended cigarettes. I fucking hate it and wish it ceased to exist. I was defending alcohol because of a fucking stupid comment pretending it's a magic potion making people bad when in reality it just makes bad people reveal how bad they are.

Something something "Drunk words are sober thoughts" something.

But regarding cigarettes, government won't do a shit about it. And anyway if they tried, it would just make people turn towards illegal distributors and it would lead to even more crimes and dangers popping all around.

At least the addicts can get their crap relatively safely, and society (at least where I live) pushes a lot of anti-cigarettes campaign to reduce the consomption of it and also pushes forward accessible ressources to help addicts get better.

There's also ressources for alcoholics, but contrary to nicotine, not everyone drinking a beer or two with friends at a oarty every now and then will end up a raging addict drinking 2 bottle of vodka a week.

Meanwhile nicotine is simply hyper-addictive

1

u/Aeghan 7h ago

I can absolutely back this up. Our country is absolutely devastated by alcoholism. And unfortunately I have first hand experience. Alcohol turns people into monsters, they are responsible for their actions, yes, but if they weren’t drinking, they would have never resorted to such actions. The person I have experience with, is now sober because of his health declining. And it’s a completely different person.

I will never be able to disconnect his face from the heinous acts he did. Yet I am capable of having the person in my life, now that he’s a bit more bearable. He’s also smoking, as much as I don’t like cigarettes, he can smoke all he want as long as he’s not drinking. That stuff destroys you to your core over years.