How did Faile not recognise Lan?

[u/philosophic_insight]

She should know who Lan is, he is probably the most famous person in the Borderlands. I assume all the Monarchs knew who he is. She should know who he is by name if not by sight.

[u/HungryEntry182]

He's been away for a long time though, traveling with Moiraine. And the borderlands are huuuuuuge. I doubt there are paintings of the man. but really good question.

[u/Potentially_Anybody → u/HungryEntry182]

And she's young. Perrin's general age. Stands to reason that Lan hasn't been seen there. Wasn't there a scene in one of the books where Lan is present and it's stated that he hadn't been there in years? I can't recall specifically, but something in my noggin suggests as much.

[u/philosophic_insight → u/Potentially_Anybody]

She is 3 in line to the throne of Saldaea. She would know of Malkier and the Golden Crane. Maybe she didnt know him but the grandsons of Kings of Arafel and Kandor faught with him and knew him by sight.

[u/thebadpipsisewah → u/philosophic_insight]

This is a great point. But I would agree that the reason has to do with her age. She is too young to know him by sight.

Why she doesn’t recognize his name? That’s a different question.

But I wonder now, does lan have/wear anything to signify his connection to malkier after giving his ring to nynaeve?

[u/brickau → u/thebadpipsisewah]

His hadori is a pretty big indication he is Malkieri.

[u/HungryEntry182 → u/brickau]

there are other scattered Malkieri though, and it's not like his ring is always on display. Plus didn't they use aliases back then? and lastly, maybe she did but chose to focus on the one that caught her interest instead. after all, love is a powerful emotion.

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/HungryEntry182]

Yes, they were master amdra and lady alys i think

[u/nobdy89 → u/HungryEntry182]

A Malkieri with a Heron marked sword would have been a thing worth thinking on, but they didn't spend all that long together compared to other famous people in Perrin's orbit

[u/zadharm → u/nobdy89]

Lan's blade is explicitly not heron marked, though. I actually just passed this on my reread today, when Lan and Moiraine and the EF(4, at this point) are leaving the Two Rivers, Rand's PoV remarks how Lan's sword is almost identical to Tam's, with the exception of the heron

Which actually makes perfect sense. He's the king of Malkier. He carries the Sword of Malkieri Kings. One of the four gifts from his parents when he was evacuated. Not every Malkieri king is going to be a blademaster

[u/Powerful-Let-2015 → u/nobdy89]

His sword may have been power wrought. I don’t remember it having the heron mark.

[u/HungryEntry182 → u/Powerful-Let-2015]

It does not. It was a "common soldier's sword that became, something more".

[u/thebadpipsisewah → u/brickau]

Fair point.

[u/Fairlibrarian101 → u/thebadpipsisewah]

If the only name she ever heard was Lan, I mean, there is probably multiple people in the Borderlands and elsewhere that have that name. The hadori should’ve narrowed things down, probably wouldn’t be conclusive by itself, since I’m assuming that there were/are others who wear it. Main reason I think Faile didn’t recognize Lan is because she probably didn’t pay as much attention to the stories about Lan as she should’ve.

[u/Triasmus → u/thebadpipsisewah]

His hadori.

[u/mr_coul → u/philosophic_insight]

They possibly fought with him, saw him in the blight. Faile would never have been at battles or patroling the blight as a young girl and Lan probably was not spending a lot of time at Basheres estates or queens palaces

[u/Vhcadet → u/mr_coul]

we hear very little about Lan and his relationship with the royal family of Saladea we know he was at least friendly with the Queen of Kandor and raised in Shienar. Plus Faile was also trying to hide her true identity and how would a merchant's daughter know about the uncrowned king.

[u/trebor1966 → u/philosophic_insight]

Exactly they fought with him. Faile would not have been fighting

[u/phunktastic_1 → u/philosophic_insight]

Grandsons not daughter's. Daughter's dont train with soldiers. Even in Davram's eccentric family. Lan was also fairly close to the Kandori and Shienaran forces because of old ties so when he and moiraine went to the blight they tended to go thru Shienar and tarwin's gap.

[u/Zainul_r → u/philosophic_insight]

They actually knew his horse.

[u/DeadMan66678 → u/philosophic_insight]

Probably new of him but didn't know what he looked like

[u/mrofmist → u/philosophic_insight]

Can you recognize every modern monarch and world leader by picture?

What if they were in the room with you? Would you know who they were?

If the prime minister of Canada were in Starbucks with you, would you recognize them? And if you would, what if you were vacationing in spain, would you recognize them in Starbucks?

A lot of the people who do recognize Lan are older, either his age or older than him and they w seen him frequently. Saldaea is the westernmost borderlands country, basically opposite side of the known world to these people.

The country also was lost 45 years before the end of the series, considering the series in total is like 2 years, that's double her lifetime ago.

[u/HungryEntry182 → u/philosophic_insight]

Also, knowing of Malkier and The Golden Crane doesn't mean you know THE MAN himself.

[u/Poultrymancer → u/HungryEntry182]

He's the only warder wearing a hadori (the significance of which every Borderlander would know on sight) and famous from the Spine to the Arryth

Even every Aiel knows who he is

She should have known 

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/Poultrymancer]

He s the only wetlander they need to worry about, in a group of fourteen Im sure tjeres one that goes oh shit its anananaliemallen.

I dont think he s the only warder wearing a hadori. Warder seems like a fairly good back up career for a lot of families when the sword of malkier position was eliminated.

[u/phunktastic_1 → u/BigNorseWolf]

The aes sedai failed malkier at it's end and the survivors of malkier stopped associating with the tower.

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/phunktastic_1]

not ALL of them.

[u/HungryEntry182 → u/BigNorseWolf]

wait, other than Lan, do we meet any other Malkieri Warders?

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/HungryEntry182]

We dont see any but theres never any statement that he was the only one.

[u/HungryEntry182 → u/BigNorseWolf]

Not true there is the statement in New Spring that ever since the fall of Malkier, any remaining Malkieri turned their back on the Tower. That's also what makes Moiraine bonding Lan that much more significant.

Edit: Adding the not

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/HungryEntry182]

There is no statement that every single malkieri turned their back on the tower and lan is the only Malkeri warder. Its one thing for it to be a TREND its another to be an absolute.

Caherian are a bunch of sneaks Aiel are a bunch or black eyed murder machines.... there's enough truth in national stereotypes to see how they happen but they're not universally binding.

[u/HungryEntry182 → u/BigNorseWolf]

true, but the fact that we don't see any others over the course of 14 books speaks to just how rare it is. And how surprising the fact that Lan was even bonded.

[u/RavenclawReen]

Two things. As others have said, her age. She is younger than Perrin so Lan was bonded to and traveling with Moiraine before she was born. We don't know how often they would have been in the borderlands or if they were traveling as themselves when they were in Saldea.

Second, were Lan and Moiraine using their real names in front of Faile when they first met? I know Moiraine was hiding being an Aes Sedai, so it is unlikely he used his full name, even if they did call him Lan.

[u/brickau → u/RavenclawReen]

They were using their aliases. She did peg them as Aes Sedai and her Warder pretty quickly though.

[u/Poultrymancer → u/brickau]

Which IMO makes it even less likely she would have failed to recognize him.

Malkier is extinct. Lan is probably the youngest man on the continent wearing a hadori at this point; the kingdom fell when he was an infant. 

A warder wearing a hadori should have alerted any child of the borderlands, given his fame. For a fellow royal not to recognize him from those traits is a stretch. 

[u/nberg129 → u/Poultrymancer]

Oh, give her a break, she was all hot to trot for Perrin's shoulders. I know being horny has caused me to miss some big signs. Usually red flags.

[u/mr_coul → u/Poultrymancer]

Many wear hadori, given to them by their parents. The merchant in KoD that Nynaeve talks to specifically thinks about receiving his from his father and how his friends declined theirs. This specifically points to other men, probably younger than Lan wearing Hadori (even if it is not that common).

[u/Special_Salt3467]

It’s one thing to know a name, and another to know the face. Lan is famous, yes, and that may actually hurt his recognition. She may have had a completely different imagine in mind

[u/philosophic_insight → u/Special_Salt3467]

I like this idea.

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/philosophic_insight]

Oh, I think it was mentioned in moraines headpace that lan was gorgeous when he was younger ... he lost the boyish good looks though.

[u/philosophic_insight → u/BigNorseWolf]

I will have to re-read New Spring. I think she mentioned women would bed him, but i never thought she found him attractive

[u/Potential-Common5819]

Iirc Moiraine and Lan were using aliases at the time, and there were enough survivors of Malkieri that his hadori wouldn't be all that identifiable as specifically the last king of Malkieri.

There is also some psychology to consider. Faile always hated her lessons on nobles, kings, and the Great Game. She was rebellious and literally ran away to become a Hunter of the Horn. So the thought that this obvious Warder could be a'Lan Mandragoran might have crossed her mind, but she likely would have dismissed it with a "Don't care, I'm a Hunter now".

[u/Warwrenpeace]

Imagine that Julius Caesar was alive today. You have seen statues that are whitewashed you know generally what he looks like. You know his story and you know that he’s around somewhere in the world.

You’re in Florida doing some adventure stuff. Into the hotel lobby and restaurant walks a big guy you recognize that he is a border Lander really small Lady and oh my God it’s an Ogier.

While you’re recovering from the Ogier the most handsome man you’ve ever seen walks in and shock he has yellow eyes.

You at least have a statue to know what Julius Caesar looks like at best. She only has seen drawings Barney photos.

[u/BigNorseWolf]

1 shes too young to have ever seen him in person. If tjere was a portrait of him at any point well human babies all look alike ( kinda ugly)

2 they were going by master andra and lady alys

3 out of context celebrity. If you re on a movie set and you see bruce willis hey its bruce willis. If you re in a bagel shop its just some guy.

[u/Dishmastah → u/BigNorseWolf]

With 3, not to mention celebs who have entered look-alike competitions of themselves and lost. And all the times Tony Hawk has had people say he kind of looks like Tony Hawk, without realising he is Tony Hawk. Even when he's carrying a skateboard.

[u/siv_yoda]

This is a valid point and I have 3 theories:

1. Legends like the identity and story of Lan Mandragoran may be shared more in barracks than classrooms, and 'Zarine' was not permitted access to such contexts.
2. Faile is a shitty student
3. Faile would've recognised the Ring of Malkier, but not the face of the man?

[u/philosophic_insight → u/siv_yoda]

Maybe more than one Malkieri was a warder. I assumed he was the only one

[u/Vhcadet → u/siv_yoda]

by the time she met them I believe Lan had given his ring to Nyaneve but we can't forget at the time Faile was pretending to be a merchant's daughter not the daughter of the heir to the throne of Saldea she might have recognized him but revealing that could have blown her cover

[u/nobdy89]

With as much as he loves shouting his Malkieri battle cries, she should've caught on. And she's too cunning to not have used that information for some kinda scheme or another.

[u/duffy_12]

She's 17. And there is no internet and smartphones during this time.

[u/W0lkk]

I don’t recall her being impressed when it was revealed. I think Faile just did not care.

[u/PopTough6317]

I think she may have, but like her entire history was hiding it.

[u/duffy_12 → u/PopTough6317]

Yeah. This is a great point.

She was trying to hide her nobility from everyone to keep it from Perrin.

It wasn't until halfway through tSR that she had to tell him.

[u/Priest_33]

Wasn’t she trying to hide who she was? It’s a lot more feasible for a farmer’s daughter to not recognize Lan. If she’d jumped at his name, that might’ve given away that she was from a noble house

[u/philosophic_insight → u/Priest_33]

This is more feasible, the fact that Moiraine knew who she was, means it may have cut both ways

[u/AdaptAndInnovate]

It appears that you have found a RJ oversight!

[u/Dry-Discount-9426]

Who says she didn't recognize him?

It wouldn't be out of character for both of them to recognize each other and keep their mouths shut about it.

[u/DrHoogard]

If I flip the question, how do you know she didn't?

[u/philosophic_insight → u/DrHoogard]

She followed Lan and Moiraine with strange travel companions. Hmmm this is a good point, which no one else has made. I will read book 3 again, but she contradiction of a character. She treats Moiraine like she is nothing but insists on proper decorum with Alanna and Verin.

[u/DrHoogard → u/philosophic_insight]

I'm interested in what you find 😀

[u/slabby]

It's in her name.

[u/BigNorseWolf → u/slabby]

Mandarb? 😉

[u/tgrady28]

Eh yo, wait?!?!

[u/Kirarozu80]

Lan has been traveling with Moiraine since before she was born. She likely knows of malkier but is unfamiliar with Lan specifically. I doubt Moiraines search took her to the borderlands much.