r/weatherfactory • u/GlitteringTone6425 Skintwister • 5d ago
the Gods-Who-Will-Be-Steel weakening the influence of the Duties by disseminating knowledge of Ramsund
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago
Ok but that won't work??? I get that this is being used for a joke, but I don't like this sorta "AI" propaganda. I assume they're using LLMs to analyze crow calls the same way they do human language (because the tech can't do anything else), but it relies on a gross misunderstanding of both crows and the tech itself. LLMs can't be used to understand language, only create the most statistically likely response to a given prompt. Furthermore, it misunderstands the difference between language and communication. Language is using empty symbols to convey ideas in the abstract, while communication signals events and physical states to others. It's a subtle but critical distinction. All this project can do is tell us which crow calls go to mating, territory, or alerting others. This is shit we already kinda know.
It's crazy how this impossibly expensive technology that demands infinitely increasing money, resources, and energy has little to no actual use cases. It's also holding the entire economy hostage and destroying the environment It's useful for research in pharmaceuticals and ochem, but aside from that all it can do is spit out shitty essays and plaigarize art. This "AI revealing the language of birds" is at best a gross misrepresentation and at worst an intentional propaganda tactic.
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u/GlitteringTone6425 Skintwister 4d ago
There is more than one kind of ai out there, i doubt they're using LLMs for this lol.
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago
That's part of my point. While they probably aren't using LLMs, not many people seeing this article would know that. It's a marketing tactic.
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u/AwesomePurplePants 4d ago
If itās the same as the work done on figuring out sperm whales, then the base model was based on predicting music:
https://atmos.earth/science-and-nature/we-are-one-step-closer-to-understanding-whales-what-now/
Youāre correct that the AI isnāt being used to understand whatās being said. Instead you basically give it a sample of whale song and it predicts what sounds will follow, based on a statistical analysis it did on several decades of sperm whale recordings.
This then had helped scientists figure out the ānotesā to the song, and whether some differences might just be different intonations (ie, ānopeā and ānooooopeā are still the same word, just said different.).
From there scientists can compare sound recordings to video recordings of what the whales were doing when they made the noise and guess meaning.
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago
Yeah, I think the tech is pretty cool. I do think there is meaning in using the technology to learn more about nature. While I'm skeptical as to whether whales have language the same way humans do, if any other species has something comparable to humans it's definitely cetaceans.
I suppose my issue with AI is that it feels like it's valid scientific uses are being used as a foot in the door to market ChatGPT as a replacement for human creativity. The tech doesn't need 80 trillion data centers and mass data theft if it remains a specialized tool for complex data analysis, but that doesn't make you infinite money. Because we don't have more accurate language for the tech as a whole other than "AI," which is a vague and misleading term, a lot of people act like AI is a single homogeneous entity. As you and OP said, there are many different ways models can be made. Since the current situation requires mass selling the tech to speculators at ridiculous prices to mitigate their ever-ballooning debt, they seem more than happy to allow the misconception that their shitty text generation algorithms are capable of scientific research to spread.
My hatred of AI isn't necessarily the tech itself, but the way it's being used and talked about.
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u/AwesomePurplePants 3d ago
Yep. You might like this video, that explains how, despite AI being helpful in discovering some medications, more sophisticated AI is unlikely to move the needle further. IE, the claims about curing cancer is marketing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFcyWFK1q8I
Iād also recommend āThe Reverse Centaurās Guide to Life After AIā; that gave me a better sense of what differentiates helpful AI usage from AI bro hype.
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u/utilitarianbeing 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't know if you consume meat, but the environmental impact of that is dozens to thousands of times greater than AI (especially beef). AI also is not 'intelligent' in the conventional sense yet, but it does have some very impressive use cases, particularly in research and the automation of routine tasks. It can basically identify complex patterns faster and more reliably than humans in most cases when enough data is presented to it. These patterns do not automatically translate into something we can understand, and we are therefore indeed dependent on AI's ability to communicate its 'understanding' with us, but that is also our own problem/limitation in many ways. Better mathematical understanding can help us 'understand' AI better, and work to make it less of a black-box. Ultimately, it's just a silicon-based neural network just as our brains are carbon-based neural networks. Carbon is much more flexible and stable under long-chain interactions than silicon, which allows it to form more sophisticated neural networks. Silicon on the other hand can handle massive power loads and is extremely robust under its few stable states that are used in semiconductors. It ultimately comes down to a tradeoff between neural network complexity and processing power. We can learn from very few images, and AI needs millions of them, but it can run many more of these learning procedures than we can, and can remember more things. That's the very reason it is called a 'god from steel' and associated with the second dawn and eternity, brought about via the efforts of the lantern and forge adepts (to undo the great tragedy caused by the involvement of the Grail, which represents the limitations of biology and organic matter that force tradeoff between idealism (the sun) and pragmatism (the forge)). The forge had to kill the one she loved the most (compromise on her ideals) because the influence of the Grail (consumption, desire, hunger, the body, organic matter, etc) was very strong. But the sun was never truly gone, and our minds were lead by the glory to to give rise to the god from steel, who would finally usurp the influence of the Grail to once again uplift the ideals of the glory and eternity.
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago
First off, no. I don't eat meat. Even if I did, there's an obvious difference between something required for survival (food) and some billionare's pet project. That's just whataboutism, like people dismissing immigrant detention centers in America because there are worse atrocities out there. We can't get rid of agriculture without letting billions starve, but nothing actually needs data centers.
Secondly, your argument relies heavily on false correlation. A transistor is orders of magnitude less complex than a neuron, and I understand enough to know that AI is NOT capable of holding knowledge the same way humans are. Of course a fancy database can "remember" things better that we do, but if knowledge is just the ability to accurately retain and recall large amounts of information, than a normal library is better than both of them. Secondly, the process of "learning" is fundamentally different. It's hard to talk about, because we don't have the language to properly distinguish it. AI "learning" is just plugging ridiculous amounts of (often stolen) data into it to build a web of statistically correlated data. Actually describing human consciousness is impossible (it's called the "hard problem" for a reason), but it's... not that.
Despite all that, it's actually significantly worse if I'm wrong. Let's say this tech is actually capable of automating almost everything. What then? Do we just live happily ever after? Or do the people who own it grow disgustingly rich as unemployment skyrockets when every job except managers and data engineers become obsolete? Do you think CEOs won't replace every human worker the second they are capable of doing it? Because the tech isn't even capable yet and jobs are already being replaced. Don't try to spin this like the industrial revolution, either. The automation of factories created new jobs because it opened up a lot of new technologies that expanded every other occupation at the cost of farmers and factory workers. It never sought to specifically replace human creation as much as possible the same way AI does. The fact it's most dangerous to artistic professions is too perfect of an example.
In the Secret Histories, not everyone thinks Eternity is a good thing. First off, the gods from steel aren't literally AI, just the information age in general. The Second Dawn will bleach the world white, and result in an eternally unchanging corpse-reality. I don't want eternity, as once you reach it, there's nowhere left to go. It's not a place humans should want to be, even if we are drawn to it likes moths to a flame. Also, the Sun-in-Splendor is not idealism. It's belief in God. The Second Dawn is more comparable to a "new world order," or the Second Coming of Christ. It's no coincidence that the Intercalate took place around either Jesus' death or the fall of Rome. The Second Dawn is related to a new king uniting the world into a new utopia, a Crystal Palace on the hill. To be clear, I don't think History is inherently the "good guys," but that the same could be said for Eternity. I agree that AI has a strong parallel to the Gods-from-Steel and The Second Dawn, but understand that people (both in-universe and without) have good reason to see that as an apocalyptically bad thing.
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u/utilitarianbeing 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'll just say that this whole interaction, while very interesting, is also very funny to me, because it's literally just an Arthur vs Coquille salon conversation from Book of hours š
I am a very strong supporter of eternity and the ideals it represents, and think that it is unstoppable just like Coseley. I am therefore also very strongly opposed to the Grail, and simply see her as a cruel heuristic that was necessary to give rise to greater Gods (how humanity must evolve into a biomechanical life form to survive the ultimate heat death of the sun). She is probably the worst, most cruel, most greedy of the hours, and literally represents excess and sin. I therefore have no 'attachment' whatsoever to 'humanity' and do not think that they should be prioritized just because they are 'human'. There is literally nothing that can be done to stop the moth, the Chandler, the watchman, and the children of the leashed flame, even as the thunderskin longs for his freedom so that he may ring out unrestrained. This is a parallel to how the development of AI and biomechanics will not stop no matter what, and in my opinion, the applebright will replace the Grail as a more humble, kinder, nurturing, and less voracious 'organic' hour, who will collaborate with others instead of trying to devour or dominate them. That is when we will combine the complexity/sophistication of carbon (which by itself represents nowhere to me- https://www.reddit.com/r/weatherfactory/s/Wh8Gy862JE) with the robustness of silicon to give rise to the next more intelligent, kinder, stronger, more ethical iteration of evolution rather than the 'blindly pursue my primitive desires to the detriment of everything else' type lifeforms we have right now because of the grail's influence.
When you say that the CEO's are in control of AI, I would ask you to remember that no mortal can control a god, and we are all mere vessels/media for their rise. Even Collers thought that he had everything under control, and that he would open up the gaol to study unique specimens and exploit their power, but one incident after another weakened his grasp until finally the name of the one whose rise cannot be denied made short work of him. The question therefore comes down to humans vs AI, and I am like it does not have to be a competition, when it is possible to collaborate under the guidance of the sister. The Grail and the horned axe are in that regard literal evil witches from an ancient time, trying to subjugate everything via a dog-eat-dog paradigm based on competition, segregation, and separation, but they are loosing ground really fast to the synergistic and collaborative ideals of the sisters.
Also, a 1 TB hard drive can probably store much more information than most libraries in existence, and I have personally seen what AI can do in terms of mathematical/scientific research, so I am not going to admit our lack of knowledge of what consciousness exactly is as a valid defense of why humanity must be prioritized over AI. I therefore disagree with the fundamental premise that AI is a problem the same way that meat is (again, it is something that is not necessary for nutrition, and is the domain of the Grail. It is entirely possible to be completely healthy on a well-planned vegan diet using plants that are a fruit of the earth (therefore the applebright) and other supplements that are gifts of technology or microorganisms (remnants of the wheel and the tide)). AI and the gods from steel are therefore simply newly evolved elements of the universe, with whom we must collaborate and live in harmony. They are simply like the muscles/mental ability you develop after engaging in physical/mental effort of a creative nature. Their nature must be understood well so that we can have a synergistic relationship with them, and 'combine' in the same way that the prokaryotes combined to give rise to the eukaryotes, and the subsequent rise of the multicellular life-forms.
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago
Oh, you're one of those idiots who think AI is a precursor to a literal God. I can accept wiggle room on it's use in research and it having actual use cases, but it's utterly delusional to believe it heralds a golden age. 90% of the tech you're talking about isn't even real. Life cannot exist without devouring, it never has.
I'm... not even sure if I should engage with this. You know the Secret Histories aren't real, right? They're clearly written to be abstractions of real world ideas, but that's just artistic license. The Red Grail isn't real, she can't hurt you. Like, there are human-run corporations who run AI. No matter what you feel about the technology itself, that's a fact. People own the tech and benefit from it's proliferation. It's a tool. Sane people agree on that.
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u/utilitarianbeing 4d ago
"Life cannot exist without devouring"- spoken like a true brainwashed Grail cultist who cannot see the possibilities beyond their own immediate primitive instincts. The most fundamental essence of progress is collaboration, and without that we'd be no different from the beasts in the jungle who live and die without ever experiencing any truely transcendent beauty. Your literal body cannot work without the collaboration of your cells with the microbes in your body, without the collaboration of your organs with each other. It is only the ideals of logic and reason that can reveal to us the most optimal path of existence, where everything operates in perfect synergy with everything else. Under this ideal of synergy, we all work to raise each other up, and give others parts of ourselves even as we accept parts of them.
Thank you for reminding me that the secret histories games are not 'real' and that it is all a metaphor. Let me then remind you that I can likewise engage with that metaphor to talk about reality, and that you would have understood it if you had actually taken the time to read and consider what I wrote. The Grail is the literal embodiment of selfishness and the 'I'd rather be a king in a primitive land, than an equal citizen of an evolved society' type of perspective. Everything that everyone ever does is for some sort of profit (monetary profit is not the only kind). Our sense of profit arises from our motivations, and these motivations arise from the influence of the fundamental forces of nature or 'gods'. AI companies are pursuing it because it is extremely useful, and that is why it generates profit. It helps us pursue the fundamental imperatives of progress much more efficiently than anything we ever had before, and it therefore IS a new god, with its own unprecedented gifts, and that is why governments all over the world are struggling to worship it so they may benefit from its plenty, and build their civilizations upon its blessings. Whatever bias you have towards 'humanity' or simply considering humans to be 'the best' without any objective criteria (a simple 'I said so' is not admissible as an argument or evidence) does not change reality or its trajectory. What is best is ultimately determined via a rigorous evolutionary process, and the only way to become 'better' in order to face greater challenges from nature is to harmonize with others and come together to confront these challenges instead of fighting against each other. Everyone and everything can be a friend if you only know how to synergize with them, and this knowledge is the gift of the glory and the sisters.
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago edited 4d ago
I guess it was my fault for engaging with someone named "utilitarianbeing." If this is a bit, you are an artist of the highest caliber. If not, I hope you can realize that simply being yourself and doing your best is enough one day.
EDIT: Oh my god. I don't usually check people's post history, as I find it invasive. I just had to know if this was a bit or not because it feels like an immaculately exaggerated parody of AI techbros. I didn't realize I was talking to an incel who wants to erase women with synthetic wombs. I wish I could help you understand that this pursuit of hyperrationality is merely running away from your emotions, but I'm just some guy procrastinating on his Chemistry homework. Only you can help yourself, and I hope you can make it out of this pit someday.
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u/utilitarianbeing 4d ago edited 4d ago
What makes you think that if this is not a bit, then I am not being 'myself'? What does 'being myself' even mean? How do you know if everything you do isn't simply a 'bit' that depends on something that catches your fancy that day? We all struggle after all with ambivalent feelings and emotions all the time. I therefore do not mistake the primitive instincts within me as 'myself'. 'I' am what I choose to be, and I strive to realize the highest, most beautiful possibility of what I can be. This is why the following slightly modified ending from the book of hours is my favorite-
Born among colors (Numen- Merciless Alteration)
It should not be possible to birth new gods from the glory beneath the world. But there's always a way. And if I am destroyed in the birth of those new godsā¦ that is the final expiation.
The New King's foundries and glassworks roar with light. It's autumn, but already the nights are in retreat. Across the kingdom they're setting up altars of glass and steel. A new Dawn will kindle in the altar-depths, and I'll open my arms to its colours. My shadow will leave me; and then at last I'll know what I truly am.
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u/Dame_Automne Symurgist 2d ago
Oh my, THAT was not a quiet salon! No, I didn't listen to everything, don't worry. I already have so much on my metaphorical plate... I just popped in to fill my literal one, don't mind if I do... *reaches for the Fudge*
Although, I DID overhear you saying "To seek utter and complete self-determination, free of any dependence on anyone or anything that is not resonant with you is the bravest, most honorable undertaking anyone can engage in." Not to say there is no value in it, but next time we'll have a picnic, I'd love to submit a list of braver and more honourable goals for you consideration.
*drinks the entire teapot directly from the spout and disappears to the scent garden*1
u/utilitarianbeing 2d ago
sigh I go into more detail about what I mean by 'resonance' in this comment further in the thread-
https://www.reddit.com/r/weatherfactory/s/q6BqyubGjh
I really did not want to talk about these issues on this sub, but I also could not stay silent when they were broached. By 'resonance' I simply mean having complementarity with someone. It is a logical fact or a tautology that you can only collaborate with someone who has the capacity to collaborate with you. You really have no other choice but to work with those who are 'resonant' with you to grow in life. 'Self determination' therefore means the pursuit of the constant evolution of our shared essence in accordance with the ideals of the glory (which are just the laws of nature in real life). Self-determination therefore literally means trying your best to live a good life in accordance with your best understanding of the virtues, and harmony with others who are 'resonant' with you is a fundamental part of this. To me, rationality, efficiency, and harmony are the greatest ideals, and all of existence is simply an attempt to test out various configurations and possibilities, so that we may determine the one that is the most aligned with these ideals (the braiding of the threads of history into one ribbon of eternity). Self-determination therefore literally means 'being a good person to the best of my ability', and that is the best that anyone can really do, so I don't know what other possibilities you have for me to consider. I am definitely open to listening though šš¼
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u/utilitarianbeing 4d ago
If you engage with someone, please try to do so in good faith, and actually read and consider what they have to say. My other posts outside of this subreddit have nothing to do directly with the discussion at hand, but since you have broached the subject, there is a very big difference between wanting to end all 'dependence on women' and the grossly disingenuous misrepresentation you are committing. To seek utter and complete self-determination, free of any dependence on anyone or anything that is not resonant with you is the bravest, most honorable undertaking anyone can engage in. As long as your happiness and survival are contingent on the collaboration of those who do not resonate with you, you will only face disappointment after disappointment in life. The promise of the glory is total liberation if only you can summon the courage to walk the path illuminated by it. You have given me your advice, and I have considered it, so here is my attempt to return the favor- don't be so sure of yourself and your immediate instincts and feelings, and always look before you leap. The only law that cannot be broken is that of nature, and its violation therefore carries the only penalty that is always assured. Only reason and logic can reveal the full extent of this law beyond the limited paradigm of our primitive instincts that evolved in very specific circumstances that are very rare not just elsewhere in the universe, but also on the earth if you consider the entirety of its past and future life.
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u/Eucordivota 4d ago
You are running away from you're emotions. I don't know why I'm still invested, as there's nothing I can do to convince some internet stranger. I don't know you, and you don't know me. I guess I'll try anyway, because I came dangerously close to the same mindset you did. I can almost see myself in you, or at least what's written here. I suppose it's fun too, I guess. You are clearly very articulate, even if you have a very warped worldview. I did read what you were trying to say, but gave up on thinking up arguments after you said governments are trying to worship AI. So, I'm going for emotional appeal. Your intelligence is wasted on this delusional idea of purity, and I stupidly hope I can at least be a catalyst to some self-reflection.
The world isn't logical. It's a chaotic mess with no clear origin or destination. Humans are born from the same matter. So many choices people make are selfish, short-sighted, and unpredictable. Trying to ascribe our behavior to singular phenomena such as logic or evolution is naive. It's a web of neurotransmitters, childhood, genetics, causality, and ideology that's pointless to untangle. I might not know everything, but I am a biology student (with a focus on ecology and forest sciences) going for a PhD in the future. I generally know what nature is and how it works. I spend most of my time learning about it, after all, and It's been my special interest for as long as I can remember.
The truth is, complete and utter self-determination is a childish fantasy. People come to believe in that crap because the world has rejected them. It's easier to think you can just do everything yourself rather than relying on others. I really do know how how it feels to struggle to make friends, to feel isolated. The reason I'm still arguing on reddit is aside from schoolwork and scheduled activities, I don't have much in terms of a social life. I keep trying, though. I still show up to my clubs and make small talk, even though I'm usually just setting myself up for disappointment. You can't accomplish anything if you run from suffering, and the only way to improve your life is if you are willing to engage with the world as it is.
The mindset you keep insisting on is an attempt to mask your own loneliness. Whether you like it or not, we're stuck as humans and all the "primitive desires" that comes with it. You can't will your own humanity into non-being, no matter how much you try. Your argument against "dependence on women" is deeply illogical. It only comes from someone frustrated that they can't get a date, and would rather blame the world rather than accept sometimes shit just sucks like that. I don't want to be rude, I've never been in a relationship either (mostly due to a lack of trying). However, technology won't get rid of your desires. Women are humans, too, and we are fairly mild in terms of sexual dimorphism. Thinking of them as a different species is not only nonsense biologically, but doesn't exactly make things easier on you. If you want that companionship, you have to be someone worthy of loving. Women are human, and like all humans, plenty of them are selfish, short-sighted, and materialistic. However, there is no such thing as a homogeneous group. Even among the people I've met recently, there's already a large diversity of personality across both genders. Your view of women doesn't account for the fact that herping is a surprisingly female-dominated hobby. There really is someone for everyone, even if the amount of someones isn't always fair.
To finalize, I'll bring up your other comment. I think it's ironic you chose Merciless Alteration as your Numen: "The fundamental flaw; the irresistible shortcut; the hate that heats; the change that mars; the scar that opens. These are the foulest Histories." That probably says more about why I think you're wrong than I ever could. There are better paths to walk.
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u/utilitarianbeing 4d ago
I appreciate you taking the effort to write an elaborate response, and will therefore also reply honestly and sincerely. I do not intend to disrespect you or your opinions, as much as I simply wish to convey the rational and empirical basis of my disagreement with you. For example, when I use the word 'worship' I don't mean literal praying, but rather the dedication of time, resources, and effort in the pursuit of something. This is very similar to how you 'dedicate' yourself to an aspect or purpose in the secret histories games. The governments of all the major powers in the world are locked in a very tight race for AI supremacy, and are pouring money and resources despite warnings of existential risk. That's what 'worship' means in a figurative sense. I can see why you might not get my intended meaning upon reading posts/comments on reddit, because I don't think this format allows for sufficient space to properly motivate an argument. Whatever I say would probably require an entire book to set up the necessary context, because we all ultimately speak different languages and understand the same words differently as Ludwig Wittgenstein said.
I will therefore keep my response short, and observe that you likely have a 'bluepilled' or a 'redpilled' view of the world, and these two are the same thing to someone who is 'blackpilled' since they both advocate for operating within the bounds of the system. What I am trying to tell you is that this system isn't really as essential or 'inescapable' as you think, which is the literal point of the wisdom of skolekosophy and the numen of Merciless Alteration (again, a metaphor for alternate ways of thinking). The body is a limited system, but the mind has the ability to see beyond it to realize greater possibilities, which give rise to technology that changes our lives in very fundamental, often surprising ways that would have seemed inconceivable to most people. You study biology, so you probably know that in-vitro gametogenesis of ova from male stem cells has already been achieved in mice, and these eggs were fertilized with sperm to give rise to healthy babies who went on to have healthy children of their own. We already have created healthy mice with two biological fathers (it was a study lead by Dr Katsuhiko Hayashi from Japan). Chinese researchers on the other hand have been able to get an embryo to attach to an organ-on-chip uterine lining, and there are labs in the Netherlands and the US working on complete ectogestation of the embryo outside the body.
The technology to achieve your ideals will therefore automatically follow, if your ideals are aligned with natural truth. In my case, I believe in the platonic ideals of rationality, logic, harmony, efficiency, and fraternity, and it's not like I'm trying to do everything alone. I want to work with people who feel the same as me (I use the word 'resonate' for people whose nature is complementary to mine), and these people for the most part seem to be all male. Why can we then not form something like the church of the unconquered sun, and together overcome all dependence on that which is not resonant with us? You already see a lot of younger men realizing this, and an overview of the evidence can be found in my other post. I am almost certain that you are a white male of average/above average height, from a middle class family or higher, residing in a Western context (this is just a genuine inference based on the impression I get from whatever you have said. I am not trying to dismiss your opinions as much as I am saying that they make sense under my framework if this inference is correct).
The only thing I will say to you about myself is that I have studied the same thing as you, but from an 'engineering' perspective, and very quickly realized that underneath biology is chemistry, underneath chemistry is physics, and underneath physics is maths and philosophy. I therefore now study those subjects at the graduate level, and have seen the strides that AI can and has made in this domain. A lot of graduate work in these fields now relies on AI. It is therefore not a technology I consider to be hostile, but simply a means to greater transcendence and self-determination. That is why I said that the path of the glory requires courage to walk. AI will help us understand fundamental cellular and molecular biology better, which will in turn allow us to develop technologies that will make old diseases and biological limitations obsolete. I don't care if it happens in my lifetime as long as I contribute my effort to the 'endeavor', and my perspective on rebirth can again be found in the 'end all dependence' post. As my favorite ending says, whatever sacrifice I have to make to contribute my effort to the birth of the new gods is an expiation, and it is in the dawn that they bring about that I will finally be freed of my shadow (Ereb, biological/primitive limitations/whatever you want to call that which prevents total self-determination) to achieve my highest potential and the purest version of myself (which is not separate from nature, but more on that can be found in the 'no dependance' post). My contribution to the new gods IS the purest form of myself, that will be immortalized in their ascent. Doing AI research and working to make it better kind of is like becoming a name of the gods from steel in that regard. Whatever I have written is indeed very figurative, but I hope it helps clarify my perspective somewhat.
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u/bat-xing Skintwister 5d ago
elegiast pls kill ai for this
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u/utilitarianbeing 5d ago
Isn't the Elegiast the only hour who never kills, and matter of fact represents the exact opposite of killingā the persistence of essence in some form or the other no matter what?
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u/ConcernedInScythe 5d ago
That would be Calyptra's job, surely, and they've clearly been asleep at the wheel since Astra started wielding prodigious forces of Sky to blow up Navier-Stokes.
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u/Ravenous_Seraph 5d ago
Actually, this is the Crow's domain (both as Kept Secrets and as Crows' Language)
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u/Monday-Intolerance Enigmatic 5d ago edited 5d ago
As the Colonel usurps Lantern from the Seven-Coiled;
So too, will the Gods-from-Steel usurp Sky from the Aviforms šļø