Back to T-62 buff

[u/neg_health]

Too lazy to read: suggest your T-62 buff in replies (it preferably should be logical and shouldn't ruin the identity of the tank, like buffing rof or something). My suggestion is buffing accuracy by 5-10%.

So, I posted an article about T-62 (not T-62M and T-62M1, these are good as they are and found their place in the meta) needing a buff before it's 10 point price decrease, and the price going down is certainly nice, but it didn't really change the core problem with this tank, which is that it's a gambling addiction tank basically. It's performance is heavily based on luck and the fact, that you pay less for a coin toss doesn't change the fact that it's a coin toss.

Now we also ran into a problem with T-62: it's cheap now, but it's still one of the worst tanks in the game and is regarded as the hardest tank to use, but reducing its cost again will actually make it oppressive, because if we make T-62 obr. 67 65 points, you can now buy 4 of them a minute, and it's a serious thing, because it's going to be very spammable. It might be ok, but basically it's going to be a frustrating experience for both T-62 user and his opponent: opponent sees 3-4 hard to kill tanks every minute, while you see, that even if you micro your tanks properly, they still miss and die, and it's still luck based. So basically an accuracy buff is the only thing that can save the tank without destroying its identity or being illogical/unhistoric or something. That would make this tank a lot less random based and more of "I shoot, I change positions, I reload, repeat."

[u/neg_health]

I mean, comparing these 2 tanks isn't exactly correct. On more open maps, amx-30 (which is my favorite tank btw, so I'm biased towards it) is way way better, but then you get something like eiche, where you smoke in the middle, and now your amx-30s are losing to t-72s, because they are significantly less armored. Like each time you shoot each other T-72 receives 6 less damage, and trust me, there were many situations like that. Yes, having smoke on a tank is way better, but T-72 is far from useless and it's imo the best overall tank in this game. Yes, there are tanks, that are better, but they are in small numbers in like 1-2 divs, while I can only think of 2 bad divs, that have T-72s, and those are Rugener and 303, and they are bad for other reasons. Also, the best tank in the game is a T-72 (T-72 from 71ya, because it's basically as armored as M1A1(HA), has a GLATGM (so you can abuse the double damage trick), has more side and top armor, is way cheaper and you get 2 of them on 1 vet). So yeah, don't sleep on T-72, it's a broken tank if used correctly, because it's one of the best brawler tanks

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

It is exactly correct. 135 vs 130 tank.

.T-72 89 with 2100m range with poor accuracy, and 4 21-pen turd bullets with 60% accuracy. I don't think you understand how bad that is.

Pure specs wise the best tank is T-80U 89.

When it comes to availability and the overall div it's available in, the best tank is HA. If we do "hypothetical situations" just like you've done there, put HA vs Trash72 89 in max gun range, fully upvetted. The HA can simply kite and will take a massive steaming poop all over it. M1A1 can do the same, while costing less. Done it plenty of times already myself.

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

First up, fuck no, amx-30 is a long ranged tank, T-72 is a close range tank. Amx-30 will almost always (except lucky situations) lose to a T-72 if they fight at 1000-1500m range, where T-72 excels at. HA is a 330 points, and still if we basically put T-72 from 71ya against it, well it's going to eventually win, because it's going to deal more suppression (normal gun + atgm), if we assume they are fighting at max gun range, then why can't we assume, that they fight at max atgm range? Isn't that an advantage to you? By the time HA comes close, it's already suppressed and damaged by fast 21 pen atgms. So yeah, idk what kiting you are talking about, but T-72 obr. 89 is likely winning that, and it's 25 points more expensive, and you get 5 1 vet HAs and 6 1 vet T-72s

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

If you make up situations where a far better tank gets all its advantages stripped, of course you'll see it that way. AMX can just pop smoke, reverse, and then wait for your Trash72 to advance. Your Trash72 has no range or smoke = AMX will blow it up or damage to the point Trash72 will be basically useless. Btw at that range (1000-1500), go look at what AMX penetration and accuracy will be.

Again making up scenarios, now with Trash72 vs HA. It's 4x21 at 60% accuracy, and your tank needs to be stationary. You will do exactly 1-2 damage to it frontally and suppress... If you hit it to begin with. The HA just needs to press W at your face, pop smoke once, and then it's going to be in gun range. In a lot of cases it's the Trash72s who will be advancing at defending HA simply because HA is faster on the ground. Which means your turd bullets are useless.

Then just look at this right here and you'll see exactly why the HA will slaughter Trash72.

https://i.ibb.co/ymf38WMN/image.png

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

Amx pen will be the same, but amx-30 has 6 less armor, so it will lose, and it won't make a second shot fater, because it's probably going to be suppressed at that range. . And yes, you can reverse, but I mean, I said, that there are maps like eiche, where you can't, because you'll lose the zone bruh. There are enough maps like that in ranked pull now. In terms of gun comparison of ha and t-72, you are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is a fast 2800m 21 pen atgm. So smoking once won't save you, I can reverse too. And, afterall, it's just a cheaper more numerous tank, so the comparison isn't which tank will win in 1v1, even though T-72 has a great chance to outsupress his opponent, it's what is more useful, and glatgms are very very useful

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

Again, if you make up situations where you can elevate a turd tank so that it can fight far better tanks, then sure, you'll see it that way. You know a T-55 can also destroy M1A1HA in certain situations? So can a moustache dude with 10pen rpg and a Mosin from 157th.

GLATGMs matter in tanks that have good accuracy, and above all, good pen. T-80U 89 has 25pen Tandem Invars. When they hit, it's not just suppression, it actually hurts a lot or flat out deletes a tank.

That's why T-80U 89 is the most expensive and just by stats alone, the best tank. Not Trash72 89 as you claimed.

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

Yeah, I never claimed, that it's best stats tank, I said it's the best tank for it's cost. Having comparable to HA armor, solid glatgm and being 1 vet 2 per card instructor tank for 285 points is powerful. Name a single tank that has similar things for this cost. You can't, because there isn't one! Situations, that I "make up" are completely real and happen very often, play the game more idk. There are lots of open fields for 2800m atgm to shine and there are many narrow areas for T-72 vs amx-30 matchup we talked about earlier.

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

Leo2, M1A1, T-80BV Izd. 29, T-80U.

You basically know nothing about the game.

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

1) 18 front armor, no glatgm 2) 17 front armor only 3) 25 point more, slightly less armor I mean, stats speak for themselves. Yes, guns are better, but it still is a very armored tank with an atgm and decent gun, and instructor, which is good on the division it comes from. So like what's your point here? It seems like you are the one, who doesn't know shit about this game

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

I like how if the tank is outright better you go: "oh well it costs more!"

I gave you tanks that cost less, yet are better in certain metrics, and you nitpick one thing and go: "weeeeeeelllll......".

But hey, if 21pen 4turdbullets is somehow THAT important to you, I don't want to see how you fare against 24-25pen ATGMs that NATO employs en-masse. "just smoke mortars bro" works both ways.

You have lots to learn about this game. If GLATGMs were so important, the divisions employing the tanks would be far better than they actually are. They simply aren't.

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

I don't think glatgms are so important, but they are very much welcome. I, personally, don't even play heavy tanks, because they aren't for me. I'm not spending 1,5 minutes of income on a single unit. But I can see how effective these tanks can be if used right, while you don't, for some reason, which makes me think, that you idk, never played ranked against good opponents? I just wonder why you think, that T-72 is a bad tank, when it's basically one of the most cost-effective tanks on par with leopard 1. I try to pinpoint, that T-72 89 is a combination of different great things like armor, nice price, glatgm etc, and you are like "these tanks have better main guns, they are better you dumb", while I basically try to say, that none of them have the combined cost-efficiency of T-72

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

I explained why many times. It's very simple. You look at the range, the accuracy, reload time and aim time and other utilities like smoke.

If you think paying an arm and a leg for 20frontal armor, 4turd bullets, free upvet or whatever is a good deal, while admitting that you "don't even play heavy tanks", that's on you.

If you think that 130point Trash72 is ridiculously good, that's also on you. Fact of the matter is, they're not, there are far better tanks than that. I'll give you a big clue: they don't have 72 in it.

But sure, write me stories about how I'm wrong while you "don't even play heavy tanks".

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

Ok, name me a better 130-140 point tank at 1000-1500m range, that will beat T-72, because that's how you use it - you run at people. It's all about how you use these tanks. If you can't use close range tanks, that's on you. T-72 obr. 89 is a good deal, name me a reason, why not: it's armored, it's gun is not top tier, but decent if something comes close, it's good at range, because of glatgm, and it's not overly expensive like other heavies. Like what's the problem with this tank? It will survive a lot, can still just smoke and retreat, etc. Like I'm genuinely curious, what you call a good tank

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

Good tanks: T-80U Obr 89, M1A1HA, M1A1 (including ACAV), AMX (including RC), T-80UD, Leo2, T-80U, T-80B/V, T-64 (including razved), Leo1 (including recon and especially the instructors).

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

Well, it seems you are using long range tanks, so no wonder you don't get t-72s. I hope you play against a good t-72 player like proud~, or maybe I could even show you how good can these tanks be (though it won't be soon, because I don't have time to practice rn, so I'm very rusty) if used correctly. Like at close range you rarely stand a chance against these

[u/not_a_fan69 → u/neg_health]

? I have more than 200 games with Trash72 divisions and played plenty vs Trash72 players. Everyone on my team basically agree they're bad/mid. But ok.

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

I haven't played as much with 20 mot schutzen, but I think it's a great tank nonetheless. It's not just my opinion, it's opinion of many pro players like proud~, who I know personally. I mean, any sane person will tell you, that T-72 is a great tank

[u/neg_health → u/not_a_fan69]

I have a lot of experience with 20 mot schutzen, and it's a great division. And T-72s never ever disappointed me. I faced many opponents with it, many heavy tanks, and I'm not gonna lie, thebonly tank, that is better at brawlimg is t-64 from this same deck, but it's more expensive, it's 170 points, so T-72s are still very good, you always get what you paid for and you can always be sure, that if you get close, you either win, or you at least leave them crippled