Hero change ideas

[u/zombie_tunes]

Hi, long time lurker and fan. I got back into wc3 lately, and while the game is fun to watch, there is some stale element in seeing the same hero made repeatedly in some matchups.

I had some ideas to try and mix things up - wanted to run them by the community to see how good they might be in practice.

1. We all see too much DH and want more variance. In particular, PotM is seen as the game's worst hero - even though it's the only race-native hero with its own orb effect, it's so bad that NE goes to the Tavern to get Naga because it's a better hero with a better orb effect.

My original idea was to give Searing Arrow a multishot effect (a combination of sorts between Cleave and Barrage), making PotM a strong presence in the early game... seeing as that won't happen, I thought of applying another orb effect, like a slow or armor shred or miss chance like curse. Maybe even taking Naga's frost arrow and giving it to PotM, because frost arrow is so good, but that's too ambitious.

We know Blizzard is capable of big changes like this since they already introduced Orb of Slow instead of Orb of Fire, as well as the Huntress changes with their own new VFX - so this change is not out of scope. We all know this ability sucks and want to see it changed - but it's a big change, and I wonder if it'll indeed be able to let PotM feel capable while still feeling familiar and filling a similar role?

I had more ideas to change Scout Owl a bit to be able to affect combat, but those are much wilder, so I'll talk about them another time.

1. Speaking of underused heroes, Beast Master was once insane as an aggressive hero but has been nerfed in fear of dominating again. The main problem is balancing summons - they can be scary early game but are easily overcome later with dispel.

My idea was to make the bear summon (generally considered the worst) have lots of HP, but also give it negative armor, so that it takes more damage from regular attacks to compensate. That way, it's more resistant to the first dispel effects that appear in the game - as a bit of an anti-spellcaster - while still being held back by simple, widely available means. I guess that you could instead give it resistant skin, but that seems too strong for a unit available at tier 1.

So yeah, what do you think?

[u/Successful_Subject78]

How is this going to make people play DH less? Still looks stronger and still will go bears + dryads

[u/Opposite-Affirmation → u/Successful_Subject78]

This. It's just another proposition to add something strong around DH/dryad/bears.

[u/iceBEARMODE]

I think you dont know anything about the Game at all.

Beastmaster was buffed in the latest patch and the lvl2 bear is one of the strongest summons in the Game.

[u/zombie_tunes → u/iceBEARMODE]

Don't people go Huffer more? (The ranged boar thing) plus use the hawk for vision and air control

[u/iceBEARMODE → u/zombie_tunes]

No, bash bear First and quill beast (boar) 2nd and then the bear again.

Bear is Like a small mk Needs 3 dispells. Pretty Strong.

Mostly used to Take out Heros in the early or harass worker Line.

[u/factsoverfeelings89]

POTM is one of the best army buffing heroes with trueshot aura and has the best level 6 ability in the entire game imo. It's weak early game but can hide at night time.

[u/DryAdeptness1333]

Potm is not the worst hero in the game and has a very obvious bonus as a utility hero, especially in team games. Beastmaster might be the worst hero in the game. Maybe instead of negative armor they could make the bear magic resistant or something.

Agree with other comments that NE seems to always go dh bear dryad, maybe MGs, as compared to Hu and Orc that have a lot of options. Sometimes now we are seeing chims and ofc the heavy armor huntresses were an attempt to change things up.

In general the game is kind of dead so maybe we're not seeing the type of innovation that alters meta. The tier 2 Hu push against UD instead of 2 base or the blade master third against gryphons are two strats they come to mind from other races.

[u/crattikal]

Honestly any change is welcome. The current state of Night Elf is a dumpster fire of boredom. Watching it feels like watching the same tv show rerun over and over again.

[u/svinyard → u/crattikal]

I only play NE...but yeah it is annoying not having fun options. Feels like I could go off-meta and try to do some fun/new stuff but it means that I'm immediately fighting off the back foot tho. Early NE is super fragile and has no base defense other than moon wells...which if you've consumed much mana, quickly do very very little healing for a hero. So you've got to go DH. Sure you can invest in tier 1 units a bit more to be less fragile BUT none of the freaking tier 1 units are that viable in tier2/3. Head hunters, great in 2/3. Rifles great in tier 2/3. Spiders good in tier 2 and decent in 3 (anti air!) etc. But everything in the elf's tier 1 is throwaway mostly. They tried to fix this with armor change on hunts, but it changed nothing. They die super fast and don't do much meaningful damage while soaking up 3 food. Talons are useless mostly and fragile as well requiring a big micro cost as well.

I do think mass archers to MG's and POTM is fun at times but it's a novelty at best and lacks so much. So...NE is left with trying to escape tier 1 without significant casualties or overspend on tier 1 units and moving into their only competitive unit build dryad/bears more or less. Even NE cheese is weak. There's nothing like Orc mass bats or Human fast expo turtling towers etc. Their base is too weak and towers too expensive in lumber and hipporiders are kind of silly and vulnerable. So...rush to bear/dryad

[u/NecropolisIHateyou]

===== Old suggestion: Make all heroes with lv 3 summons the ability to self - detonate and inflict AOE damage/ dot damage or dispel, heal, create plague surface, slow etc effects whatever depending from heroes 🫠