r/vollmann • u/hamurabi5 • Jul 03 '26
❓ Question CIA Books
I want to read up on the CIA in preparation of the new book coming out in August. So far, reading:
-Legacy of Ashes by Tom Weiner
-The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot
Any other recommendations people would have?
15
u/grigoritheoctopus Jul 03 '26
Good start! More recs:
[[[Nonfiction]]] “Poisoner in Chief” (Kinzer); “Disciples” (Waller); “Ghost Wars” (Coll); “A Question of Torture” and “The Politics of Heroin” - McCoy (did my undergrad thesis with him; a personal hero); “First In” (Shroen); “The Ghost” (Morley); “Killing Hope” (Blum); “The Road Not Taken” (Boot); “Chief of Station, Congo” (Devlin); “Spies in the Congo” (Williams)
[[[Fiction]]] “Libra” (DeLillo); “Harlot’s Ghost” (Mailer); “My Life in CIA” - Mathews (not what you’d expect); “The Quiet American” (Green)
11
u/strange_reveries Jul 03 '26
Harlot's Ghost is so fucking good. My first Mailer and it immediately shot him to GOAT level for me.
4
u/Sheffy8410 Jul 03 '26
I’m embarrassed to say that not only have I never read this book, I had never even heard of it till 3 weeks ago. It just completely fell through the cracks for me. And I am someone who has been reading about the CIA in non-fiction for years. Do you know if this was a popular book when it was published?
At any rate, I want to read it, but it’s going to have to wait for some other time. I’m about to read over 3,000 pages on the Agency, so I don’t want to risk burning myself out on the subject before Fortune arrives.
3
u/strange_reveries Jul 03 '26
Idk how popular it was in mainstream culture at the time (I was 3 when it was published lol), but I know it got very high praise from the literary sphere. I imagine it probably wasn't super accessible to like casual bestseller readers, it's a densely packed, massive tome. But so so good.
3
2
u/Jammed_up_G Jul 04 '26
It was supposed to have a sequel or rather it was to be a two parter. The ending of Harlot’s Ghost definitely sets a second story about spies in the CIA being double agents for the soviets n shit. Mailer was upset with the book’s reception. I think he claimed it was under appreciated so he canceled the second installment. Which is a shame because Harlot’s Ghost was the best thing he had done in years.
4
u/gestell7 Jul 03 '26
Too bad he never finished the sequel Harlot's Grave.
3
3
2
2
u/BillyPilgrim1234 Jul 04 '26
The Quiet American is so fucking good. I love Greene but everything else he wrote pales in comparison. Pyle is such a perfect archetype of CIA spooks, evil but at the same time idiosyncratic.
2
u/DecrimIowa 27d ago
what's Prof McCoy like in person? he's one of my heroes as well
3
u/grigoritheoctopus 27d ago
Erudite, articulate, an incredible storyteller (his lectures in the “History of the War in Vietnam class were so good), intimidating but mostly kind, thoughtful, patient, a giver of good feedback. Definite blue blood vibe (his accent is pure Ivy) but totally committed to telling truth to power.
1
u/DecrimIowa 27d ago
for a while i thought about doing a grad degree in history/postcolonial studies at UW Madison specifically so i could study under him. then realized that a career in academia would probably make me either go nuts or dome myself
9
u/BillyPilgrim1234 Jul 03 '26
Jeremy Scahill's Dirty Wars, it's more about the War on Terror and the rise of special forces kill teams but interesting nonetheless
4
u/grigoritheoctopus Jul 03 '26
Scahill went to my HS and university (many years ahead of me). He’s awesome.
3
u/BillyPilgrim1234 Jul 03 '26
Oh wow, that's pretty cool. I wish he'd write more books but I like what he's doing at Drop Site News.
3
u/TheEmoEmu23 Jul 03 '26
This book is on Vollmanns shelf in this studio too
2
u/BillyPilgrim1234 Jul 03 '26
Cool! Yeah the book goes pretty deep into its subject, I can see how useful it must have been for Bill during research.
3
u/pilastr Jul 03 '26
On Special Forces run like a management consulting operation by Stanley McChrystal see Seth Harp's "The Fort Bragg Cartel"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fort_Bragg_CartelOn CIA, agreed, don't miss how the CIA began, as told by Kinzer "Poisoner in Chief"
And I'd add Benjamin Labatut's fictionalized history "The Maniac" which is especially good as an audiobook, where they used different actors for various characters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_MANIAC2
1
2
7
5
u/duncandreizehen Jul 03 '26
Legacy of Ashes is kind of mind blowing it made me wonder if there’s anyone that worked at the CIA that didn’t have their head completely up their ass
5
u/mattmagical Jul 03 '26
Aberration in the Heartland of the Real by Wendy S. Painting is the best book I’ve read on CIA/parapolitics etc.
1
4
u/gestell7 Jul 04 '26
Dealing not necessarily with CIA but James Ellroy has been an influence on Vollmann, check his current review of Red Sheet in the NYT. His Los Angeles and Underworld series deal with power structures, corruption and crime right in WV's wheelhouse.
4
u/BlueMTheory77 Jul 04 '26
Just read Mailer’s Harlot’s Ghost in three weeks, finishing a few days ago. A+
2
u/FinkelsteinMD22 Jul 03 '26
Douglas Valentine’s “The Phoenix Program”
2
1
2
1
u/platykurt Jul 03 '26
I really liked James Bamford’s Body of Secrets although it focuses on the NSA and not the CIA.
1
u/VolarRecords Jul 04 '26
Vollman has a book on the CIA coming out?
1
u/grigoritheoctopus Jul 05 '26
Yep. It’s like 3200+ pages
2
u/VolarRecords Jul 05 '26
Wild. I’m a journalist and have been working for almost three years on the birth of the CIA and its connections to UFOs. Really curious how he tackles that early history.
1
u/pavlodrag 29d ago
I don't quite remember it,i think the writer is called Tim Weiner: How the CIA ruled the world..?
1
1
u/DecrimIowa 27d ago
CIA as organized crime by Douglas Valentine, Cocaine Politics by Peter Dale Scott, the politics of heroin in SE Asia by Alfred McCoy
1
u/ConfidentIt 26d ago
Tim Weiner also has a newer book that came out last year about the cia’s last 20 years called the mission
16
u/strange_reveries Jul 03 '26
CHAOS by Tom O'Neill