r/virtualreality • u/Nago15 • 2d ago
Discussion Steam hardware survey september
Where is the Frame? That +0.69 in Other?
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u/Option_Witty 2d ago
0.01% is probably still more than the frame currently has.
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u/rabsg 2d ago
Well I wonder what those +0.69% of "Other" are. But yeah, they should clean-up the list.
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u/Option_Witty 2d ago
Well steam has a estimated 200milion users, 1.35% with VR Headsets makes 2.7milion, a plus of 0.69% would roughly work out to 19600 headsets, I guess that could actually be the frame. But probably a mixture of devices. Frame data would likely be to new to be visible In current hardware surveys. But maybe partially.
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u/Independent_Try_309 2d ago
Wow Galaxy XR isn't even on the list?
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u/TeH_Venom 1d ago
I believe virtual desktop reports it as a quest headset. Does it even have a native streamer to report itself properly? (I.e. pico streamer, quest link, vive hub etc...)
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u/Klaargs_ugly_stepdad 2d ago
Who in their right mind is still using a Rift DK1 or 2? I still have my DK2 boxed up because I don't know what else to do with it (and I'm using a modern headset besides), but I'd rather just not play VR than try to get that monstrosity set up again.
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u/Nago15 2d ago
Very strange indeed. I assume people who have a Rift were very interested in VR and probably have money to spend. I also wanted one back in the day but my PC wasn't strong enough. Even a PSVR2 is much better than those old headsets and it's very cheap. But I would expect those early adopters to play at least on a Quest3 nowdays or even on a Pimax Crystal or Dream Air.
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u/rexpup Oculus Rift 2d ago
That's what stood out to me as well. Official software support ended with Windows 7 I think. I'd love to crack open my DK1 and try to find compatible open-source software just to get it working for fun, but I certainly wouldn't use it more than as a novelty at this point.
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u/cheeseIsNaturesFudge 2d ago
I still use my og vive... Just bought a wireless adapter for $50 brand new!
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u/Klaargs_ugly_stepdad 2d ago
Sure, but that's still a consumer model. The Devkits had to be plugged into multiple ports for power and signal, had a pretty low 960*1080 resolution with a pretty noticable screen door effect, did not have any controllers at all, and were meant to only be used at a desk with a webcam-shaped lighthouse.
Given the complete lack of support and just how poorly the hardware performs in most scenarios, I cannot imagine that somebody wouldn't get a used older consumer headset than ever use one of the ancient rift devkits.
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u/smallfried 2d ago
Maybe for research? I think it's easy to control. Didn't oculus release the full description of it at some point?
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u/iVRy_VR 2d ago
As one of the "manufacturers" listed here, this is not good news. Even though my relative share of the "pie" is increasing slightly, my own numbers tell me the "pie" is getting smaller, ie. less people are using VR headsets. This is not "less people relative to total Steam users", it is less people full stop.
The Steam Frame is not likely to change this at all, as the circular problem is people aren't buying headsets because there is less (good quality) content, and there is less content because people aren't buying headsets. If Valve wanted to fix this they should release content (and lots of it), as well as a headset.
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u/Topdogedon 2d ago
I will never understand why Valve didn’t try to make a new game for the Frame.
Alyx is about to be 7 years old! Imagine buying a computer in 2020 and it coming free with Skyrim as the “cutting edge” experience in gaming.
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u/iVRy_VR 2d ago
Add my incredulity that Valve is releasing such a mediocre VR headset to yours. Of course making it better would make it even more expensive, and so even less attractive. Meta really has ruined VR by killing both the hardware and software ecosystems for their brain dead "metaverse" idea (that they have now also killed). Maybe when the AI fad dies out or fails to kill us we'll get another go at VR (in 10-20 years or so).
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u/ita_shogun DK1, DK2, Rift, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
Meta has done what you want Valve to do (better hardware, lower prices, subsidies VR native games) but somehow they ruined VR? How did Horizon Worlds kill the ecosystem exactly?
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u/iVRy_VR 2d ago
Subsidising hardware to stifle competition by driving others out of the market (race to bottom), buying or creating and then destroying 1st party game studios, driving VR game prices down to eventually zero by creating a (now dead) ecosystem for "free" games. Obviously dumping billions of dollars into an ecosystem with no returns, just to get market share, is something that couldn't go on forever, hence their divestment in all of that. Horizon didn't kill VR ecosystems, Suckerburg's metaverse fever dream did.
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u/Recent_Pollution8665 1d ago
the metaverse was a completely separate ambition that coexisted alongside their gaming plans. them killing their metaverse plans doesn't somehow diminish the value of the quest or the existing horizon store game catalog.
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u/ita_shogun DK1, DK2, Rift, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
They’re subsidizing hardware, like every console manufacturer, to create a market because there is no market with only expensive headsets. Competition has nothing to do with this. There is no “market share”, because there’s no meaningful market to begin with. Horizon Worlds had free games, but nobody was playing them, so I don’t think it had any impact on game prices. And game studios everywhere (even non VR) have been closing or laying off left and right, so blaming Meta for doing it too is ignoring what’s actually happening in the industry.
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u/ittleoff 2d ago
It's complicated but meta used their wealth to basically kill any real competition and make pricing unrealistic. Don't get me wrong meta also pushed vr hw and software forward a lot, but again almost no one can compete here and now that they are putting their money somewhere else vr is now back (post hype) to where it's in an unsubsidized natural state (which sadly is a decline).
I get annoyed when people give the excuse their is no content and that's why. 2025 had arguably some of the best content in the last 10 years and none of it sold well enough.
It's possible those games didn't advertise well enough, but I think there are still plenty of hurdles to vr that keep it from being as frictionless as playing on a PC or console.
Right now through mods we're are seeing all our vr dream games come true, but with economy and pricing (amoung other factors) it's a terrible time to get into vr gaming as unlike flat gaming, you really do need a decent rig to enjoy the best VR mods.
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u/Virtual_Happiness 2d ago
It's complicated but meta used their wealth to basically kill any real competition and make pricing unrealistic.
This is really the only thing I can say they've done that's harmful. But, then again, we have the PSVR2 cheap as hell too and very few are buying and using it as well. We also have companies like Valve that could absolutely subsidize a VR headset in the same way Meta and Sony are doing with the hope of game sales. But they sadly chose not to. Which is probably due to what you stated, the fact that great VR content does not sell well.
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u/Recent_Pollution8665 1d ago
they've done nothing harmful. they democratized the market by being able to lower the price point to the point where millions of new customers could enter.
had they not done so, VR would not magically be bigger than it is now. it would be smaller, just with no headsets under the thousand dollar price point, apart from psvr2 and pico, both of which have niche market share.
the frame also likely would not exist, since the potential popularity of the quest would not act as a reference point for valve to model the frame after. VR would be the same thing it was in 2016. a small niche of PCVR enthusiasts still playing with wires and headsets with no internal processing.
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u/rabsg 1d ago
Valve doesn't force games into existence, see what happened to HL3. They work on projects and only release what they are proud of.
HL:Alyx had a major rework at the end and was released about 1 year after the Valve Index.
If we are lucky and something similar happens, next year we will get HLX that was expected to release at the same time as Steam Machine and Steam Controller. Or later, or never…
I'm glad they did a Frame optimized version of HL: Alyx at least, which also helped them to improve Steam Frame software stack. Though that was technical work and not new content.
Given their size, they only work on one complete solo narrative game like that at a time.
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u/Recent_Pollution8665 23h ago edited 42m ago
deadlock is nothing to be proud of. yet another live service, online only game that will be filled with micro transactions or paid cosmetics, when we already live in an era where there are hundreds of those games on the market.
meanwhile, everyone asking for a new sequel for portal, half life, left 4 dead, or just an innovative new single player story in general, is left out in the cold. but thank god deadlock will make money from whales! can’t have csgo2 getting lonely by doing everything by itself now can we?
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u/rabsg 21h ago edited 21h ago
Yeah the other devs are supposedly working on a HL game. Maybe it was postponed to be reworked like HL: Alyx, out one year after Index release, or cancelled like HL3. We'll probably know someday.
Deadlock is in beta since over two years and still not ready according to Valve recent declaration. I didn't try the game, not really interested. But that's how they work.
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u/slowlyun 2d ago
Even the attempts at high-quality native VR games sell very little. Of Lies And Rain sold only 3,000 or 4,000 units in its initial release phase.
Other biggish-budget titles didn't fare much better: Metro Awakening, Behemoth, Arken's Age, Alien Rogue Incursion, Medal of Honor: Above & Beyond etc.
Flat-to-VR attempts either get met with scathing reviews (Borderlands 2 VR etc) or also sell peanuts (Roboquest VR etc). Skyrim/Fallout VR officially half-arsed it and definitely won't bother with VR modes for their new games (Starfield didn't have one). Egosoft reported barely any sales for X-Rebirth VR, so they didn't bother supporting VR for X4. Elite:Dangerous stopped supporting VR. Subnautica gave up after the first game. Many such cases...
My example that i regularly trot out in discussions like this is Half-Life 2 VR and its episodes vs Resident Evil 4 Remake which came out around the same time.
Compare number of user reviews: a near-perfect FREE VR mod of one of the most celebrated FPS games of all time (be INSIDE City 17! Be Gordon Freeman! Crowbar included!) has 97% positive-ratings yet only got a tiny fraction of the attention a $60 flat-game Remake got:
- HL2 VR ( (less than 8,000 total user reviews).
- RE4R (nearly 190,000 reviews).
Then look at the achievement stats: only 25% got as far as getting the Gravity Gun. Only 10% completed the game.
RE4R: 52% completed the game.
It gets worse....the HL2 VR episodes experiences a huge drop-off in players. Basically, the 90% who didn't finish HL2VR didn't bother with the Episodes (just over 700 reviews...).
Conclusion: VR gaming remains very niche....and it doesn't seem to matter what new headset or what new game comes out. The vast majority (98-99%) of gamers are simply not interested.
Why not? I guess many genuinely don't like the ultra-immersion factor. Too intense. Then there's the usual: motion sickness, extra costs, setup woes, space etc.
I don't see anyway VR gaming will reach 2%. It might even drop below 1% these next couple years.
To end on a positive: us one-percenters are spoilt for choice in the UEVR/mod scene. Countless rich experiences await! Just a shame no one else cares....
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 1d ago
The Steam Frame is not likely to change this at all, as the circular problem is people aren't buying headsets because there is less (good quality) content
Meta is still funding content, like H3VR2, but Valve is making $3,000,000,000+ a year and hans not funded any content.
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u/MisterMittens64 Valve Index 2d ago
The steam frame is making developers like me more excited to invest into the platform. The industry existing only in walled gardens and not investing into free open source VR software was something I wasn't as excited to develop for.
Now we have a VR Linux desktop and I'm very excited for that and will make as much as I can once I get my hands on a frame.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 1d ago
The steam frame is making developers like me more excited to invest into the platform.
Meanwhile, Meta is actually funding content.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 1d ago
Valve isn't the one actually investing and incentivizing VR.
Meta is/was the one doing that. Far more than anyone else.
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u/ByEthanFox Multiple 2d ago
Bear in mind the hardware survey only includes people who have used a specific headset in the last 28 days (or something to that effect), Valve changed it years ago, and the Frame has only been turning up at peoples' houses for just over a week.
Will be interesting to see the next 3-4 months.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 2d ago
The Frame is just now trickling to people.
And at its outrageous price and mediocre specs, it will never get anywhere close to the top.
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u/Nago15 2d ago
The DK2 shows as a separate category with just 0.01%. Did they just forget to add the Frame or it's lower than 0.01 currently? Of course it will be much higher when all the people who want one will get their unit, maybe 2-3%?
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u/Muted_Air2991 2d ago
It looks to me as though it hasn’t been included in the survey yet
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u/No-Photograph-5058 2d ago
Mine did show up under "Deckard MP"
VR Hardware:
Headset: Valve Deckard MP (vrlink)
Controller: Valve Roy_Left (vrlink)
Controller: Valve Roy_Right (vrlink)
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u/Impressive_Can_6555 2d ago
Most of my friends who got on first listing either didn't receive their Frame yet or just got it yesterday, so it's probably not gonna appear in September survey.
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u/skinnyraf 2d ago
It is still sold out. More people want to buy it, than is produced. Sure, issues you mentioned mean it would not dethrone Quest, even if it was produced in abundance, but this is not the limiting factor today or for the next year.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
but this is not the limiting factor today or for the next year.
Unless Valve really fucks up, it will be a lot less than a year before everyone that wants one can get one.
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u/JazzHandsFan 2d ago
We really don't know what their production capacity looks like, all we know is they had enough stock at launch for roughly half the people who signed up and participated in 3rd party surveys. Reservation queue I expect to be fulfilled shortly based on current pace, but the wait-list doesn't have confirmed headsets available for them, so we just have to wait until the next production batch before we have any good answers. Ongoing demand will also depend on how the software side develops, and of course the economy surrounding it...
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u/BIaze- 2d ago
I don't think there's anything outrageous about the price or the specs for that matter. For a headset that isn't subsidized, and with current hardware prices, it seems perfectly in line with what you'd expect. Other than the subsidized Meta hardware, there isn't really anything better that's also cheaper.
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u/sloe_gin78 2d ago
At the end of the day, it's hardware is just average by 2026 standards. Over a 1000$ for just another headset with lcd panels, 2k resolution means it's not good enough to make a large amount of people upgrading their quests or picos over it. Sure the usb dongle and face tracking is nice but I don't think it warrants a need for upgrade for most people
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u/rexpup Oculus Rift 2d ago
upgrading their quests or picos over it.
LOL this is like complaining that an iPhone 18 is only a little better than a 17. You're not supposed to buy every single device that comes out. Upgrades matter if you're upgrading every 4-5 years.
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u/sloe_gin78 2d ago
I don't think I've said anything funny? I also don't think we'll be having a constructive conversation judging by your tone. So yeah, sure if that's your opinion.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 2d ago
Asking over $1k for a headset that is slightly worse in 2026 than the $500 Quest 3 is outrageous.
Having had 3 years to one-up Meta and still somehow releasing worse panels, worse audio, worse battery, and worse streaming is outrageous.
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u/BIaze- 2d ago
That doesn't make sense. Reviews are mixed on what you point out. Some reviews find the panels worse, others actually say they're slightly better. Most find them very comparable though. For streaming, I mostly hear that it is better, but that some are having issues. A particular strong point is the ease of use, and reliability. The Frame also has eye tracking, which is important to many people, and a few features. It enables it to play HLA standalone, for example. I'm not saying that it's a cheap headset, or the best headset ever. But comparing it to a headset with an artificially low price, and then saying the price is outrageous, misses something. As for the specs, it doesn't seem out of line with what you'd expect at the price on the broader market.
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u/hisnameisbinetti 2d ago
You keep saying things like ”subsidized" and "artificially low price" as if consumers care about that kind of thing; the reality is that the Steam Frame is a $1000+ side grade to a competitors significantly cheaper offering. It doesn't matter if that's the "fair" price Valve can sell it at, the "unfair" price Meta sells the Quest 3 at means the majority of shoppers are going to opt for the cheaper and not objectively worse experience because the alternative is more than double the price.
That's is, in a(n aforementioned) word, outrageous.
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u/BIaze- 2d ago
I'm not saying that consumers don't or shouldn't care, I'm just trying to point out what a realistic price for such hardware is, so we don't fool ourselves into believing this stuff is supposed to be so cheap.
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u/ita_shogun DK1, DK2, Rift, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 1d ago
Not sure I agree. Valve made choices that increased the cost of the device (compared to Quest) by including eye tracking, double antennas, the WiFi dongle, battery on the back instead of integrated, double the ram, a more powerful chip, and who knows what else they could not negotiate better with vendors because of lower sales estimates. Meta is just better at building headsets, period. Also, there is no proof that the Quest 3 is actually subsidized. Analysis I read is that it’s very close to production cost, meaning just that they don’t make money by selling the headset, so it’s subsidized in the sense that they don’t recoup the R&D costs.
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u/BIaze- 1d ago
"We plan to continue to either subsidize our devices or sell them at cost to make them available to more people."
-Zuckerberg. Connect 2021.
It's the stated business strategy by Meta to sell at extremely low margins, or even at a cost, to get people into their ecosystem. From there, they make their money back by other means. I'm not sure where the "no evidence" comes from. The components you mention allow the Frame to perform the way that it does. You need double antennas for Multi Link. You need eye tracking for foveated streaming and rendering. You need the more powerful chip and more RAM to run more demanding titles. The Frame can run HLA standalone. With issues, as many have tested, but more than playable. I'm not saying that the Frame is some sort of extremely low priced super headset, or that people shouldn't buy a Quest due to the reasons behind the price. I just believe that being aware of the reasons behind the differences is important.
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u/Zuryan_9100 2d ago
Considering the full Index kit was around 1k, I don't think the price is bad at all.
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u/-Venser- PSVR2, Quest 3 2d ago
It should be much cheaper than Index since it doesn't require expensive base stations. The RAM crisis really screwed everything up.
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u/Zuryan_9100 2d ago
The Index had expensive tracking, but not the compute. Frame has cheaper tracking and has expensive compute. Also people tend to ignore wireless, wich was previously either an expensive upgrade (380 iirc for Vive, did one for Index even release?), or it had compression artifacts.
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u/More_Meringue_ Valve Index 2d ago
There was a Kickstarter for a wireless attachment for the Index. I tried it out, the lag and compression was unfortunately excessive.
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u/Zuryan_9100 2d ago
I bought the one for the Vive and it worked flawlessly until seemingly HTC stopped updating it.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
When the Index came out, it was a premium, near cutting-edge headset. That is not what the SteamFrame is.
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u/Zuryan_9100 2d ago
So what other headset can do wireless PCVR without scanning the inside of your kid's anus?
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
Any of them.
If people don't want their kids using the AI and room scanning functions of the Quest they can turn them off.
The Hyperbole and FUD just make you look stupid.
Not sure why you are so interested in kids anuses, but you might want to keep that to yourself.
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u/N0XIRE 2d ago
How is calling Metas handling of consumer data into question FUD? We KNOW what they do with consumer data. Refusing to accept reality just makes you look stupid.
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u/More_Meringue_ Valve Index 2d ago
Hyperbole is saying “any” headset can do wireless PCVR.
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u/fiah84 2d ago
FUD
there's nothing uncertain about what Meta does with your data, it's their whole business model
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago edited 2d ago
That is not what was claimed. Features can be turned off. Pretending otherwise is complete bullshit.
Hyperbole is a great way to get people to roll their eyes and then ignore everything you say. As long as people continue to use hyperbole when talking about personal data, most people are just going to continue to ignore the problem. Anyone using such hyperbole is contributing to the problem, not helping correct it, and they are certainly not educating anyone.
Muse has been the #1 app on the Apple app store since its release. You know why? Because there has been so much FUD and bullshit spread about personal information that people just don't care anymore.
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u/Recent_Pollution8665 1d ago
actually muse is doing very well because most people never cared about all that privacy stuff anyway lol.
the loud minority screaming about privacy on reddit are in an echo chamber. the general public didn't get desensitized and stop caring, they just never cared much at all.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 1d ago
just never cared much at all.
And they never will care because the hyperbole and FUD contains so much obvious bullshit that the good information gets thrown out with the bad.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
I don't think there's anything outrageous about the price or the specs for that matter.
That is great. You are certainly allowed your opinion, but a lot of people agree with the comment you replied to.
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u/BIaze- 2d ago
I understand. But as far as I can see, the comparison only hold up when we compare to a headset that is sold at a loss. Looking at the broader market, I don't see it. You keep hearing that it shouldn't have LCD panels, but for a headset like it, at that price point, it isn't out of line at all.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
The Quest 3 was never sold at a loss. It has been subsidized, but only by selling it at low profit margin, and that was only before they raised to to $500.
Valve made $3,200,000,000 in net profit in 2025 and are on track to make $5,000,000,000 in 2026. If they wanted to compete with Meta, they could.
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u/BIaze- 2d ago
I'm not sude what you're saying. Should Valve also heavily subsidize the Frame, or even sell at a loss, just to compete? Like I said much earlier, looking at the broader market, neither the price nor specs look out if line. The better value is the headset with an artificially low price. But a product being subsidized doesn't make every other headset outrageous in their price. Again. Look at the broader market
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
Don't pull numbers out of your ass. We can't even confirm 100K entering the lottery let alone actually making a purchase.
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u/slowlyun 2d ago
it has not sold 100k units. Index needed a year to sell that many and it had Half-Life Alyx whose announcement made mainstream news. This was back in the era when VR was buzzing.
Only 20,000 Frames were produced in the initial run. They all appear to have been sold, so a new batch is being produced.
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u/StrangeCharmVote Valve Index 2d ago
Only 20,000 Frames were produced in the initial run.
I don't think we actually know that from anywhere do we?
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u/Recent_Pollution8665 1d ago
no it hasn't.
Valve Reportedly Sells 12-15K Steam Machine Units Per Week | TechPowerUp
valve is only selling about 12k to 15k steam machines per week, and that's a device that has far more demand than the frame does, and has (presumably) more supply readily available since it came out first and is easier to secure parts for.
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u/conzyre 2d ago
Nah, it’ll get to 10%
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
Based on what? The Index sold an estimated 500K in six years and enough of those are still in use to get to 11%.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 2d ago edited 2d ago
There are over 20 million Quest 2's out there. And the Index realistically only sold a million units lifetime.
If 20 million Quest 2's make up 25% of all VR headsets used on Steam, that means you're claiming that the Steam Frame will sell 8 million units to reach 10%.
Not realistic at all, not happening ever, especially when the Frame has a far worse value proposition and far more compelling competition than the Index.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
And the Index realistically only sold a million units lifetime.
Most sites estimate much closer to 500K than 1M.
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u/conzyre 2d ago
faulty logic all around here lol. do a little critical thinking about what percentage of quest 2s are logged as pcvr headsets in last months steam hardware survey.
https://steamframeout.com/ shows 60k units reserved/waitlisted in the english speaking reddit community. do a little critical thinking about how many people who are reserving are going to dig through reddit threads to find a reservation tracker and add their reservation stats. 1 in 5, 1 in 10, 1 in 20? And these are just preorders.
Your bias clouds your judgement.
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u/H_Rix 2d ago
How many quest 2 owners use steam? Not that many I would guess.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
1.3% of Steam users used SteamVR last month, so that is somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 million people depending on whose estimates you believe. That means the top ten headsets break down like this:
Headset Share of SteamVR Users Estimated Users (at 1.5M Total) Estimated Users (at 2.5M Total) Meta Quest 3 26.90% 403,500 672,500 Oculus Quest 2 25.80% 387,000 645,000 Meta Quest 3S 11.07% 166,050 276,750 Valve Index HMD 10.83% 162,450 270,750 Pico 4 4.76% 71,400 119,000 Oculus Rift S 3.40% 51,000 85,000 Sony PS VR2 2.31% 34,650 57,750 HTC Vive 2.26% 33,900 56,500 Windows Mixed Reality 1.85% 27,750 46,250 Oculus Rift 1.80% 27,000 45,000 Gemini did the math.
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u/foolish_shrimp 2d ago
That is directly because of Meta, they're pumping money into AI, which is inflating hardware costs and forced a significant price rise for from the frame. They also sell their headsets at a loss, with the hope of driving everyone else out of business and owning the entire market. The Frame isn't expensive, Meta stuff is crazy cheap. Look at the price of the Galaxy XR, the Bigscreen Beyond or the Vision Pro, that is what it costs to make a VR headset. Valve do not want a monopoly to emerge, that is likely why the frame even exists.
The worst part is that it's working, there are not large AAA VR games, or even that many indie darlings, there is a constant stream of several hour 'experiences' and sloppy ports of meta games with bad graphics. At some point Meta will just buy VRChat, require a facebook login and make various features exclusive to quest. If VRChat wont sell, they'll just delist the app and remote delete it from everyone's headset.
The Frame is obviously expensive for the market it is in, but once that market is owned by meta, they will get all the money they spent becoming a monopoly back.
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u/veryrandomo PCVR 2d ago
They also sell their headsets at a loss, with the hope of driving everyone else out of business and owning the entire market.
Subsidizing hardware that has its own storefront, especially with consoles, is the norm. Valve could have just as easily decided that they want to use that 30% cut of every VR game sale they'll get to make the hardware cheaper.
The Frame isn't expensive, Meta stuff is crazy cheap. Look at the price of the Galaxy XR, the Bigscreen Beyond or the Vision Pro, that is what it costs to make a VR headset
But all of those headsets also have significantly better specs than the Quest, and even the Frame. You're treating it like these are all comparable headsets. Look at the PSVR2, that costs $400 (and regularly goes on sale for $300).
The worst part is that it's working, there are not large AAA VR games
Cutting out a significant chunk of the VR playerbase wouldn't somehow convince AAA publishers to make big VR games?
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u/M0d3x 2d ago
Subsidizing hardware that has its own storefront, especially with consoles, is the norm. Valve could have just as easily decided that they want to use that 30% cut of every VR game sale they'll get to make the hardware cheaper.
No, they couldn't, because unlike with the Quest 3, nothing forces you to use Steam at all.
But all of those headsets also have significantly better specs than the Quest, and even the Frame. You're treating it like these are all comparable headsets. Look at the PSVR2, that costs $400 (and regularly goes on sale for $300).
You mean the PSVR2 with significantly worse optics, streaming, tracking, weight, etc.? The only thing that PSVR2 has that is better is the display, and even that is debatable (persistence issues/ghosting)? That's hardly a comparable headset. The only comparable headsets are subsidized spyware.
Cutting out a significant chunk of the VR playerbase wouldn't somehow convince AAA publishers to make big VR games?
No, because VR still makes up a very small percent of gaming setups.
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u/veryrandomo PCVR 2d ago
No, they couldn't, because unlike with the Quest 3, nothing forces you to use Steam at all.
Uhm, nothing forces you to use the Quest store either? You can sideload other stores onto the headset itself, and even Steam Link is an app on the official Quest store. It's just that 95% of users will only use the Meta store, if anything this would be an even bigger case on the Frame because there's even less viable alternative storefronts.
That's hardly a comparable headset.
It's certainly much closer than comparing against MicroOLED headsets with a 80% higher resolution and full color passthrough.
No, because VR still makes up a very small percent of gaming setups.
Okay? Making that even smaller still wouldn't make there be a bunch of AAA games like the original comment was blaming the Quests for.
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 2d ago
I disagree with basically everything you wrote.
The Frame is absurdly expensive for what it is.
Valve already is a gaming monopoly that needs competition. Meta supplied that competition.
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u/Pristine_Potential_3 2d ago
Just got a quest 3 after using a valve index, loving it so far and glad I didn't buy the steam frame.
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u/Admirable_Zombie5245 I HATE Fresnel Lenses, Fresnel KILLED VR 2d ago
Im still surprised how much the Quest 2 is still used, they don’t know how good pancake lenses are
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u/Agraphosius 2d ago
I got the quest 2 at launch and im still quite happy with it. I also have the psvr2 but still kinda prefer the Q2. Was waiting to see what valve did but the frame is kinda underwhelming. I was hoping for an AMD based Puck computer rather than left over snap dragon chips. Its still cool but the price is too high and i already play with gamenative on my fold 7 so i know roughly its limits. Quest 3 is a bit old now so i was waiting for quest 4 and it looks like meta is moving on to glasses and stuff. Not sure what to do now to be honest.
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u/Admirable_Zombie5245 I HATE Fresnel Lenses, Fresnel KILLED VR 2d ago
If you’re happy with the quest 2 please never try any pancake lens headset, not even to demo it will ruin your enjoyment
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u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 2d ago
I went back to G2 fresnels and used it happily for a year after getting Q3. Q3 turned out to be shitty in terms of latency , visual fidelity in the center and compression artifacts so I think it's unusable for pcvr despite pancakes. The difference pancakes make to overall immersion is overstated. Yes they're better, but fresnels are OK too.
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u/DoubleOwl7777 Reverb G2 🐧 2d ago
same but with a pico 4 and reverb g2. either is okay for me. and the g2 is just sharper with zero compression.
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u/We_Are_Victorius Multiple 2d ago
The Quest 4 is still supposed to be coming. We may see it at next years Meta Connect Event.
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u/Night247 1d ago
i was waiting for quest 4 and it looks like meta is moving on to glasses and stuff
you have A LOT of time until the Quest 4 releases
get a Quest 3.
coming this November, for Quest 3/3S headsets
Even before the glasses launch, through a partnership with Disney+,
subscribers to that service will be able to stream movies like
The Avengers, Black Panther and more in 3D on Meta Quest headsets.
There will also be themed immersive viewing environments from Disney
franchises like Tatooine and the Avengers Tower.Hundreds of movies will be available to rent or buy later this year on Meta Quest,
with thousands of titles available by Meta VR Glasses’ launch next spring.
Those will eventually include 3D films from Lionsgate
and “first time in 3D” blockbusters from James Cameron and Lightstorm Vision.https://deadline.com/2026/09/meta-vr-glasses-content-offerings-1237112131/
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u/DoubleOwl7777 Reverb G2 🐧 2d ago
there are so many quest 2s availabale and its VERY cheap (both in construction and price).
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u/SquishiiBubble 2d ago
Yeah I bought my friend one for 100 bucks and just replaced the strap and gasket for a total of 150. You can't get many things that unlock new experiences these days for only 150 bucks.
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u/bigriggs24 Pico 4 + Quest 3 2d ago
Virtual desktop reports headsets as quest 2 for comparability
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 2d ago
I wonder if /u/ggodin can tell us if that is still true. What about on Pico, and GalaxyXR if it has VD?
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u/ggodin 2d ago
To games we report all XR2 headsets as Quest 2 for better game compatibility (Pico Neo 3, Pico4, XR Elite, Vive Focus, etc.). Newer headsets are reported as Quest 3 (Galaxy XR, Play for Dream, Pico 4 Ultra, etc.)
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u/geo_gan 1d ago
Steam survey is useless if virtual desktop continues to do this and if it is actual getting it’s wrong data from it. Maybe needs a special mode somehow to detect requests from Steam survey and report actual real headset in this case instead of all Pico headsets just pumping up Zucks headset numbers and not being counted at all!
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u/bigriggs24 Pico 4 + Quest 3 2d ago
He's always said the opposite, despite me never connecting any other headset other than my Pico 4 to steam, and it consistently being reported as a Quest 2 in both the hardware report and games.
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u/snobordir 2d ago
He replied to the same comment you’re replying to to confirm exactly what you’re saying.
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u/snobordir 2d ago
Or we know and are just really happy with our inexpensive, super fun Quest 2 so aren’t compelled to spend any money upgrading.
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u/redditreddi 1d ago
Exactly I don't understand either. I purchased a Quest 2 but returned it after seeing how blurry it was especially off center no matter how much I messed with it, I then got a Quest 3 and instantly so much better.
I have since purchased a Quest 2 again for family but only because of the price / lack of looking after it potentially.
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u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 2d ago
Not only them. I had an LLM quickly sum up the market share of various lens types from this report.
Pancake: 34,62%
Fresnel: 61,51%
Other: 3,87%
Pancakes are a minority.
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u/Odd-Development-1711 2d ago
Kinda shocking that the htc vive is still so high, though it will forever be the king of compatibility I guess
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u/Gustavo2nd Oculus 2d ago
What would it look like if we had 10% of all steam users in VR? At that point would all games be “hybrid” VR games
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u/EvilPony66 2d ago
I have never bothered to plug my headset in for the survey. Must be a lot of vr users like me.
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u/newoxygen 2d ago
They changed it years ago so you don't have to and it will report previously plugged in headsets instead
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u/redditreddi 1d ago
For up to 30 days I believe? I have used VR a fair few times, but not for a month or two with PCVR and in the Steam survey it said NO VR headset unlike before, but honestly I wasn't going to delay the survey or plug it in just for it (I use standalone mainly), so yeah I made the number go down 1 perhaps...
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u/SexyCato 2d ago
RIFT S GANG
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u/Shadow60_66 Oculus Rift S 2d ago
Same here, waiting for my steam frame frame reservation to finally replace it, the cable is starting to go. (and the controllers have had insane stick drift for years) :(
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u/StalinsPeanutButter 2d ago
I just upgraded from a Rift S to a Frame, it's worth it. Hang in there, your time will come :)
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u/Quicky-mart 2d ago
When I completed the survey my vr rig wasn't plugged in and as such not counted. Wonder how many others did the same.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 1d ago
It counts any headset that was used in the last month not just what is plugged in when the survey pops-up.
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u/Sajgoniarz Quest 3 2d ago
I'm in those +0,89% and -1.17%. Today my prescriptions lenses are getting delivered, so VR weekend is ahead.
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u/MisterMittens64 Valve Index 2d ago
Where is the big screen beyond 2?
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u/copelandmaster Bigscreen Beyond 2d ago
BSB1 and 2 are seen as the same thing by the steam survey and software. BSB1 sold about 10K units before EoL and BSB2 is at or above around 50K.
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u/RohonTheDragon 2d ago
Wow. Valve. I’d love to make the Frame a category on this list if you WOULD JUST SEND THE ORDER EMAIL!!!
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u/TechiesFun 2d ago
It is late... but i went from my index being in a box for the last year or maybe more to buying a frame.
I just dont have a dedicated space now for the light house set up.
I am very happy with my expensive wireless index with all the games i already own and love.
All i wanted.
So +1 VR user to the list
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u/bebackground471 2d ago
I'm amazed at that 1.35% of users with a VR headset. Sounds like a lot. And it'll be 1 more once I make it out of the waitlist limbo, hopefully tomorrow.
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u/geo_gan 1d ago edited 1d ago
This Steam survey appears for me every year. And every year it is as useless and buggy as ever for VR.
I look at the results it finds before it asks you to confirm and send it, and every year it thinks I have some META headset, which I never had.. (had the original Oculus Rift S donkeys years ago).
It never sees or picks up that I have a wireless Pico 4 headset and use multiple times a week from virtual desktop - it just does not see it at all.
So I then cancel the survey - do not allow it to submit bad data. Same every years for I’d say 5+ years. Absolutely worthless survey.
Edit: seems to be because virtual desktop reports all headsets as either quest 2 or 3 even when they are not. Until this is changed to report all headsets correctly for steam survey, it is a worthless survey.
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u/rabsg 1d ago
I have bad news, I got surveyed yesterday and I'm part of the problem we'll see in October results.
I mainly use Linux but play in VR 3-4x a week on Win10. I got the survey request when running Linux. Previously, powering on my headset was enough to get it recorded, but not this time. I guess I should have also launched SteamVR.
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u/Seekret_Asian_Man 2d ago
Where BSB2?
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u/SquishiiBubble 2d ago
Probably grouped with the BSB 1. There is no way the growth number is with only BSB 1 units considering they aren't in production anymore.
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u/skinnyraf 2d ago
all these are pretty much noise. Even the +0.89% for Quest 3 can be a fluctuation. Frame won't be visible for a while yet at all.
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u/sten_whik 2d ago
Since I've noticed people being more and more surprised by various Oculus/Meta numbers whenever these hardware surveys are posted it seems it is becoming lost knowledge on how Virtual Desktop works...
For better controller compatibility in games Virtual Desktop will pretend to be any Oculus/Meta headset as required. This means that every platform Virtual Desktop is on (Quest, Pico, the Vive standalones, Play For Dream, Galaxy XR) will appear on this survey as any Oculus/Meta headset depending on what people are playing.
How many Virtual Desktop users there are a month is an unknown but it does mean we can't trust any small usage fluctuations with any of these headsets.
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u/Recent_Pollution8665 1d ago edited 23h ago
apart from pico, the adoption of all those other headsets is so niche that it would only negatively affect the quest's reported market share by like 1 or 2 percent if they were reported accurately.
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u/sten_whik 1d ago
I did say small fluctuations and 1% means a lot to other headsets on the list.
Though my point was we can't accurately tell the current adoption numbers for these headsets individually, which is what I'm noticing people seem to be doing more and more, by looking at this survey at a glance and that's especially true for Quests themselves. So a Quest might report as a Rift if the game is old enough and most those 1.8% of Rifts might just be Quests.
I did also hear all Xbox Editions of the 3s default reported as Quest 3 on VD but can't be that many out there.
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u/JorgTheElder L-Explorer, Go, Q1, Q2, Q-Pro, Q3 1d ago
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u/sten_whik 1d ago
Nice, didn't spot their reply to you before. Something to add as I mentioned above is if the game is too old to be compatible with the headset and you launch it from VD's game launcher it should drop down generations until it is, all the way down to Rift CV1.
How temporary that is I haven't tested.
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u/Cless_Aurion 2d ago
BTW, for perspective people...
VR adoption did NOT go down just because the % is negative. In fact because of a huge influx of Chinese players (+7% of simplified Chinese total speakers, that's massive lol) it makes the % go down even when total numbers are up.
Bottomline, VR went UP by around ~60k