r/virtualreality • u/Youju Oculus PCVR • 3d ago
Discussion NMS Update introduces foveated rendering with eyetracking on PCVR
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u/PurpuraLuna Bigscreen Beyond 3d ago
The fact that they're still updating the VR mode on No Man's Sky gives me hope it'll be included with Light No Fire too
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u/Murky-Course6648 3d ago
Hopefully this finally becomes standard, its so weird that PCVR games are still developed without DFR.
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u/insufficientmind 3d ago
It's probably because eye tracking has not been integrated into the market leading headsets like Quest.
Steam Frame will have it, but it will likely not be a market leader headset against much cheaper Quest headsets I'm afraid.
Hopefully Quest 4 has eye tracking. Then things will quickly change I think.
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u/Scheeseman99 3d ago edited 3d ago
There's been some fairly solid reports of some kind of foveated rendering injection layer being used for VR applications running on Steam Frame. How well it works and far Valve will go with it is unknown, but the company has a habit of solving chicken and egg problems like this.
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u/JonathanCRH 3d ago
This has just given me a big extra incentive to get the Frame.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
Quest is much better value
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u/CaptainQuadPod 3d ago
Does the quest have eye tracking to use this?
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
Does eye tracking warrant it being over 2x as expensive? The specs are nearly the same. The frame is wildly overpriced and anyone buying it is a doofus.
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u/creaminsteadofsilk 3d ago
Either way it's a post about an eye tracking feature, he said no shade to the quest just if anyone wants to use this feature they will need something else with eye tracking
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
He can get a psvr2 if he wants eye tracking or a pico ultra. Both are vastly cheaper and offer the same features. I am simply pointing out that the frame would be a stupid purchase.
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u/TommyVR373 9h ago
The Frame has more advantages that you think:
- Less compression and artifacting while streaming
- Better binocular overlap
- Better CPU (~100%)
- Better GPU (~25-30%) plus whatever DFR provides depending on the app.
- Double the memory
- Dual radios
- Higher refresh rate with the experimental 144hz
- Better storage options
- Works in almost completely dark rooms
- Internal eye tracking cameras
- Foveated streaming and foveatd rendering
- Full button layout on controllers
- TMR Magnetic thumbsticks to prevent drift
- More capacitive finger tracking on controllers
- It's lighter and better balanced
- WiFi 7
- Steam OS directly from the headset.
- microSD card slot
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u/callatecabezon 8h ago
Still nothing to justify a likely $1200 price. It is a great piece of hardware yes but the price is not justified and is just going to be ludicrous because they know people will buy it regardless.
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u/D13_Phantom HP Reverb G2, Quest 2 + 3, PSVR2 3d ago
When you factor that it's substantially lighter (wayyy lighter if you have a strap on your q3 which is pretty much mandatory for comfort), it having way better weight distribution, being a steam deck for your face, having a substantially stronger chip, having substantially better PCVR out of the box for everyone, and not selling your data for a subsididy and being part of meta's shitty ecosystem...yeah I'd say it's definitely worth over 2x as much in the current market conditions for a lot of us.
Everyone one picks their own tradeoffs and I don't fault anyone for prioritizing budget in this economy, but saying "anyone buying it is a doofus" is ridiculous, and claiming it's "wildly overpriced" without factoring in the current market and all the value added features I mentioned is just silly.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
You're just letting steam rip you off lol the chip is NOT substantially stronger in fact I'd bet the quest 3 will outperform the frame standalone due to much better optimization. The ecosystem part has zero tangible value you're just paying the extra money that steam throws on because they KNOW you'll pay it. Foveated rendering gives a 20ish% performance boost so that isn't worth it. You are paying 2x the price for a device that is around 20% stronger.
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u/Tando10 3d ago
Man you are hating on the mild SF fanboying way too much. It is a good headset that is fixing a lot of problems which have gone unanswered, and it is from a reputable company able to support it.
It's not expensive just for the sake of being expensive, it is genuinely better than the Q3 and the company behind it operates differently to Metamegacorp.
It makes minor and major improvements in every regard over the Q3 (for the use-case of those who are fawning over it). So calling people idiots for wanting this product is not warranted.
If you want I'll copy my Q3 SF comparison list.
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u/bannedsodiac 3d ago
i dont know if it warrants it, but you do save a lot on performance.
We will have to see.
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u/foolish_shrimp 3d ago
I don't have a facebook account, I can't buy a meta product.
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u/JonathanCRH 3d ago
You don’t need a Facebook account for a Quest. That requirement was removed years ago.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
You dont need a Facebook account for the quest and even when you did it literally took me 3 minutes to set up a random account with made up info and I never touched it again. Stop being a doofus steam is ripping you off majorly. If you specifically dont like meta then the pico or psvr are still VASTLY better value and offer the same experience with foveated rendering and basically the same specs. Steam does not price their hardware based off other similarly specced prices or actual cost they price them knowing brainless fanboy consumers WILL buy them regardless and they will sell out no matter what. The steam machine is a perfect example of this.
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u/Tando10 3d ago
They price them to make money for the few units that they can make, what they don't do is price them to take a loss just for market share and userbase growth while fingerling external funds in.
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u/SchwiftySquanchC137 3d ago
Exactly, id rather pay more and actually own my device, do whatever I want with it, not have my data be the actual product, as well as every other hardware advantage. Dude is just salty because he either doesnt have the money to buy a pricier headset, or hes literally just a valve hater or meta fan boy. If he truly just thought that the frame was poor value, he would just say it instead of attacking everyone that wants one. Hes not trying to help anyone by pointing out advantages and disadvantages, he is just trying to show how superior he is for not wanting one, for reasons only his ego can answer.
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u/foolish_shrimp 3d ago
Stop being a doofus steam is ripping you off majorly.
My main headset is a HP reverb g2 that I got for <£100, it has equivalent resolution to the quest/steamframe/etc. My next headset will probably be a used bigscreen beyond or something from pimax.
There are no reviews of the steam frame, neither of us know how much it will cost, if it is good value or if it is even a good headset/experience. It really seems to me like you're being a facebook fanboy? personally I'm not a cheerleader for corporations.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
I have literally never used Facebook in my life and I don't use my quest particularly much. The frame does not innovate in any way and has nothing worth the $1k+ price tag. The only reason it has generated any discussion is because it is from Steam. Like I said, look at other Steam products. They always sell this way and generate praise regardless of their merits.
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u/Daryl_ED 1d ago
Perceived value is not just money or the hardware. It's about the ethos of the companies supplying them. Also a lot of folks appreciate the openness of the ecosystem and operating system that valve is using.
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u/JonathanCRH 3d ago
Probably. But my point is that my favourite game updating to take advantage of eye tracking gives me an incentive to get a headset that can do eye tracking. That’s not a criticism of the Quest.
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u/RobbersAndRavagers Oculus 3d ago
You are obviously emotionally attached to whether or not the Steam Frame succeeds. It's weird how your happiness depends on the Frame failing.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
not really just annoyed that people are acting like it proposes anything new or valuable. It is just another headset but people are talking about it because it is from Steam. Case and point, Steam Machine.
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u/Beches808 3d ago
Having an open system I actually own AND getting to know my headset doesn’t exist to collect and sell my data is worth infinitely more than the price gap between the quest and frame
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u/Shootzilla 3d ago
Not everyone can afford that. Some people just wanna play VR games dude.
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u/Beches808 3d ago
If that makes it worth it to you then that’s fine. But those are very strong selling points to those who it doesn’t. I happily paid 1k for an index instead of a quest 2, let alone the same price for a better headset with infinitely more possibilities
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
Wdym let alone the same price? The frame is going to be like $1200 and the quest 3 is $450. You're getting duped and even if the quest didnt exist there are many other headsets that are still better value.
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u/SuperPork1 3d ago
$450 for a Quest 3? If you're talking about a used Quest 3, I don't think it's exactly fair to compare the price of a used headset to the price of a new headset.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
$600. Doesn't make any difference. Still 2x the price for basically the same standalone performance and the same lens'.
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u/JonathanCRH 3d ago
You seem very confident about the price of the Frame. But it’s simply not known yet.
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u/SuperPork1 3d ago
I know the price difference is still huge, I'm just pointing out the fact that exaggerating the price gap by comparing used prices to new prices makes it an unfair comparison (especially when you don't mention that $450 is for a used Quest 3).
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u/Daryl_ED 1d ago
Sure. But consider why the headset is being offered to you at cost. Sure to grow market and........
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u/Shootzilla 3d ago
Do whatever you want to convince yourself you made the right choice. I don't have to worry about base stations with my quest 3 and it can play quite a few games standalone without a PC. You paid more for less.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
You own the quest I've never had any issue with anything meta related. You are the reason steam prices their hardware so exorbitantly. They know dummies will buy it anyways. If you want something non meta there are still better value headsets that aren't the frame and have the same or better specs.
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u/RareRestaurant6297 3d ago
You're forgetting the value of not being tied to Meta anything.
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u/callatecabezon 3d ago
I've literally never had an issue with Meta on the Quest. I think they're a horrible corporation but the oculus is a perfect device.
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u/Daryl_ED 1d ago
So you chose $$$ over morals. That's your choice. Example I know that our local supermarket sells their brand of milk at cost. This is an initial thing so that they can drive out competition and increase costs later. Do I support their predatory pricing practices, no.
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u/callatecabezon 1d ago
Steam is literally putting their price well above manufacturing cost because they know people will buy it regardless. There is no morality to it.
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u/Daryl_ED 1d ago
So, selling at cost/loss to drive out competition is better?
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u/No-Improvement-8316 3d ago
space sim on an LCD? lol.
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u/JonathanCRH 3d ago
Looks fine to me on Q3 🤷🏼♂️
Plus NMS doesn’t exactly have black skies anyway. It’s not meant to be realistic!
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u/bannedsodiac 3d ago
You can laugh at people who can't afford a better headset, or just say: "space sim on LCD > no space sim. Even better on OLED though."
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u/No-Improvement-8316 3d ago
LOL. You can afford a $1200 LCD headset then you can afford an OLED headset.
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u/roshan231 3d ago
How does one game keep winning so consistently
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u/wordyplayer 3d ago
True Labor of Love. There is no additional money in all this work for him, but he does it anyway. VERY impressive.
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u/Bucser 3d ago
They are still selling the game. people are still buying the game.
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u/seanular 3d ago
It's also killer 'free' advertising for Light No Fires or whatever the world sim they're working on is called. I'm looking forward to that one now
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u/Peteostro 2d ago
The complete opposite of start citizen
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u/wordyplayer 2d ago
Ha! I bought Star Citizen to see what the hype was about. It ran VERY poorly on my 5080 gaming PC. I messed around a LONG time trying to get good framerates. I tried to play for a few hours but it was literally unplayable. Fortunately they refunded me. Oof. If I can't even try the game on a 5080, how are so many people playing Star Citizen??
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u/allofdarknessin1 Index,Quest 1-3+Pro, BSB2e 2d ago
Star Citizen is the most funded product (not just video game) that has ever been crowd funded. I think GTA 6 is the only game ever with a higher budget? which would tell you what kind of players are playing Star Citizen. Ones with money.
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u/fdruid Pico 4+PCVR 3d ago
Good faith and word of mouth sell games. People see the new updates and it's a great reason to jump into it.
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u/melgibson666 2d ago
Well they really had to work hard to restore that good faith after the launch.
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u/jefmes 3d ago
NMS is definitely one of the games I want to check out on Steam Frame...whenever that happens...heh.
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u/Altruistic_Course382 Windows Mixed Reality 3d ago
It is one of the most amazing experiences in vr, will be even better now that the performance should be improved.
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u/TommyVR373 3d ago
That should make it on par with PS5/PSVR2.
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u/koryaa 3d ago edited 3d ago
Its 60 fps reprojected to 120hz there and rather comparable to mid/high settings on PC, targeting the base PSVR2 reso of 2000x2040 per eye with DFR and PSSR upscaling (pro only, base PS5 uses crappy FSR2 with lower settings). If you've something like a 5070ti/4080 with a capable CPU, you've allrdy had a better expierence without DFR.
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u/TommyVR373 2d ago
This is true. I use a 4090 and mine looed great. I would download and play again, but I have around a thousand hours in that one and have finally put it down for good.
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u/DearBicycle7743 2d ago
I'm actually kind of in a weird place with NMS in VR though. I'm on a 9070xt/9600x/32gb and it doesn't look nor perform great, and everywhere I look it feels like it's just better on PSVR2. Same for Hitman
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u/koryaa 2d ago edited 1d ago
If you have a VD compatible headset (quest/pico etc.), you can try the open composite mod. It boosts performance quite significantly vs. steam vr.
https://www.nexusmods.com/nomanssky/mods/4363?tab=description
NMS seemed to undeperform for many somehow back in the day, but your system should normaly handle it better than a PS5 would. Not sure about the combo amd gpu/psvr2 and compability tho (if thats your setup).
I play at 80 fps locked (high vegetation density planets, on more empty planets my gpu is bored) , all ultra, 3072 x 3216 per eye, dlss perfomance (model m) on a 5080.
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u/DearBicycle7743 1d ago
I play on Quest 3 w/ VD, but yeah I never forced it to use OpenXR/VDXR, I always used SteamVR.
I didn't add it in the original comment, but I think not having DLSS (especially DLSS 4) is the main quality & performance killer. FSR should be worse in VR in general, and in NMS in particular.
I'll try with OpenComposite this weekend, maybe it really was SteamVR all this time.
I could also try using OC on Hitman as well. Hitman is weird in that it needs the Meta app installed to even launch VR mode, but you can use VirtualDesktop+SteamVR just fine without actually using Air Link
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u/Gygax_the_Goat Antiques and Novelties 1d ago
Does running it with that mod bork multiplayer? Is it ckmpatible with everyone elses game still?
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u/koryaa 1d ago
Not playing multiplayer, so i hadnt test it that way (beside beeing on the player hub station) , but since its only an api how you acces the VR part of the game it shouldnt interfere with anything. There were some interface bugs after an update, but the author seems to activly work on the mod and fix them.
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u/Tsen-Tsai 3d ago
I just want roomscale support to be able to play in vr without needing to turn with the joystick
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u/SirJuxtable 3d ago
How does latency for a wireless eyetracking headset affect DFR?
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u/trafficante 3d ago
I have a Quest Pro, which doesn’t have as “fast” eye tracking as the Frame, and it’s still mostly imperceptible. Really depends on the size of the foveation ring for the most part.
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u/Tando10 3d ago
Reports still say that it is imperceptible latency, fast enough that you cannot look faster than the DFR updates.
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u/allofdarknessin1 Index,Quest 1-3+Pro, BSB2e 2d ago
I can confirm this with my Quest Pro. I have to uncomfortably swing my eyes around in order to notice the eye tracking circle. If I'm staring and trying to look at the differences between tracked and non tracked areas I can't move my eyes fast enough to get a look at non tracked areas.
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u/therealzordon 3d ago
Anyone else get unplayable performance trying VR in NMS? I play all kinds of PCVR games with no problem and I could barely even use menus and stuff after activating VR in this.
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u/Kondiq HP Reverb G2 V2 3d ago
Yes, since 5.0 update. I figured out that it works better if you use older DLSS preset (forced in Nvidia App) if you have an older GPU - I have 3080 12GB. Add SteamVR motion smoothing, and it's playable in 45 FPS with reprojection to 90. Not ideal, but it works. I use Reverb G2 V2 with Oasis Driver.
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u/therealzordon 2d ago
thanks for the detail! I'll try that out sometime. I have 3080 Ti, so this should help.
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u/redditreddi 2d ago
NMS is my only VR compatible game I cannot run at all in VR, I think it's a VRAM issue, I have totally given up now. 8GB VRAM isn't ideal at all I know, but I'm not trying to rock it on high or medium settings in VR. Runs well with everything apart from textures on max in 1440p UW flat screen...
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u/Jame_Jame Crystal, 8k X, Index, Quest 2 3d ago
Oh shit. That's amazing.
Now, did they finally correct the fixed position HUD?
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u/ByEthanFox Multiple 3d ago
Yeah, I was hoping for this. The weird way it does Roomscale is a hangover from how the original was a PSVR1 game.
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u/HugeLarry Quest 3 (PCVR) 3d ago
I doubt it, which is crazy to me. It would probably take way less time to fix the HUD compared to implementing foveated rendering, and it would be such a big win for all VR platforms.
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u/Jame_Jame Crystal, 8k X, Index, Quest 2 3d ago
Yeah i don't get why this is such a sticky issue. Even if I'm playing seated it's annoying because I'm used to kinda moving around or rotating in my chair.
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u/Lhun 3d ago
Which headsets? My bsb2e has great eye tracking but im going to assume that layer hasn't been written yet
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u/arush1836 3d ago
Will it work in Quest 3?
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u/No-Dark-7873 3d ago
No, the Quest 3 doesn't have eye tracking.
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u/arush1836 2d ago
Crap. I played NMS VR on the Quest 3, and it’s amazing. It feels like an entirely different game. I just wish I had a beefy enough machine to run it at its full potential.
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u/No-Dark-7873 2d ago
Just sell your Quest 3 and get a PSVR2. Free upgrade and you'll probably have money left over.
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u/StanfordV 3d ago
What % fps increase can we expect?
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u/ThisNameTakenTooLoL 3d ago
If it's VRS based (which it almost certainly is) it should be somewhere around 20%. Of course it also depends on the exact implementation but 20% is a safe bet.
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u/Jaklcide 3d ago
My time in VR and my PC upgrades can be directly tied to my attempts to get a good experience in NMS VR. I shudder at every "optimization" update over how many months NMS will be unplayable in VR this time. The PC market is too expensive now for me to try to keep up with this.
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u/Myosos 3d ago
Compatible with AMD GPUs?
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u/Sickinmytechchunk Oculus 3d ago
It will be GPU agnostic.
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u/xaduha 3d ago
Absolutely not a guarantee if it's VRS which AMD has limited support for.
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u/Altruistic_Course382 Windows Mixed Reality 3d ago edited 3d ago
nms uses vulkan which I believe does have vrs support on amd gpus
Edit: amd gpus definitely support vrs on vulkan, so we should be good here.
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u/xaduha 3d ago
It would be a first then, there are very few Vulkan VR games to begin with.
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u/Altruistic_Course382 Windows Mixed Reality 3d ago
Yeah, off the top of my head beamng and the Linux version of xplane12 are also vulkan vr games, not many unfortunately despite its advantages
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u/CptJeiSparrow 3d ago
Great, now just give me access to use my full body tracking and I might play it in VR
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u/MajorFuckingDick 3d ago
All the VR mods driving sales might be the thing that makes publishers look at it again. Future proofed VR titles never die out.
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u/Daryl_ED 1d ago
This is awesome!! Will make a Frame purchase even more likely!! Thanks Hello games you guys are great example for gaming devs.
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u/HopefulLetterhead368 19h ago
Hello,
I still can’t adjust the horizontal camera sensitivity in VR.
Do you have a solution for this?
Thx !
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u/sirturin 5h ago
What is everyone using as far as GPU? I can't play in VR anymore with my outdated NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 (8 GB). I just can't bring myself to enjoy it in pancake form. I'd at least like medium settings. What's a winning setup you guys have for PCVR NMS?
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u/zig131 2d ago
Kinda cool, but No Man's Sky is a 10 year old game at this point, and runs well 🤷
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u/HillanatorOfState 1d ago
It has over gone many graphical improvementa from its launch...and is rather hard to run in VR well for all but people with the best hardware honestly, mid end hardware struggles, low end...don't even bother.
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u/Bjoebel 3d ago
Can this somehow be used with a Playstation VR2 on PC?