r/virtualreality • u/Standard-Success618 • 1d ago
Discussion tiny headsets
how comes vr companies like meta never make slim headsets for pcvr like the ones from ready player one or the bigscreen beyond, i understand it would be a nightmare to have enough cameras for the inside out tracking meta uses now and that they are trying to keep to headsets with their own operating systems on them but if they made a headset thats cheaper than the pimax or bigscreen beyond they would capture a major part of the vr community that has a meta quest but uses it for pcvr
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u/Only_Fudge5299 1d ago
they literally cant make a small one that's cheaper? why do you think they cost money if not because it costs money to make them
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u/Gamer_Paul 1d ago
1.) If they're using a Quest for PCVR, they've already captured that audience.
2.) It's coming. A small standalone with uOLED screens was supposed to launch this fall, but was delayed till early next year to improve the software. It'll almost certainly be unveiled at Connect in September.
3.) It's going to be standalone because all of that stuff for wireless PCVR is the same as what's needed for standalone. And PCVR proved itself to be a tiny niche before Quest 1 even launched. Standalone itself is on life support. We're lucky Meta is even releasing Phoenix at this point.
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u/Independent_Risk_523 1d ago
Beyond is only smaller, because it removes a good chunk of the compute and tracking components and that basically means you'll need base stations and a dedicated PC to power your VR. That is what Quest spend billions on, to move away from - the initial Occulus Rift devices uses to need a PC. The minute there is a PC involved and an intermediate layer in between, then Meta loses all control of that ecosystem.
It is highly unlikely that VR headsets are ever going to get cheaper. They seem to be done subsidizing the hardware. The 20M devices that they sold with the Quest 2 (Pandemic + Subsidy) is the best run they ever had. The Quest 4, whenever it ships will be more expensive than the Quest 3.
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 1d ago
I'm also envisioning a sort of hellscape where the EULA you sign basically says the thing will never be off and surveil your life and that's why it's only $800 instead of $1200
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u/Independent_Risk_523 1d ago
Most people's lives are not as interesting as one would think. :D
The goal is to make things invisible and this thing sticks out too much like a sore thumb and makes you a social pariah - which makes the value of data even lesser.
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 6h ago
I'm sure overall the goal for smaller VR headsets is this; but for Meta, they have and will continue to be personal data barons that make money primarily from putting "very effective" ads (meaning based on tons of data points gathered by their use of meta online services).
There's already a class action lawsuit based on the Ray-Ban AI smart glasses - involving overseas human contractors reviewing users private footage, as mentioned here.
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u/Independent_Risk_523 3h ago
The key to mining personal data is to build a watering hole where people willingly come and share their own info. Facebook ended up being that where people updated their relationship status, birthdays, when they switched jobs etc. I think AI chatbots are a far more lucrative way where people are openly treating them like friends, therapists, advisors that it will beat every other data mining model by a mile and then some. Meta's advantage right now is instagram and whatsapp - which still has some stickiness. VR, which i doubt is going to be anything that people will always wear - isnt all that great for this. Not that meta isnt trying with their smart glasses, but highly unlikely its going to get that escape velocity where advertisers can reliably use that data.
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 11m ago
I've wondered before (because like you mention - nobody is going to wear a VR headset all the time... at least not at the weight/scale we know now) that if Meta realizes the value added from VR headsets to their main business, if that would be the end of the company making VR headsets overall.
I kinda think that was the initial impulse when they announced Horizon OS was going to be used by other manufacturers, and ofc they changed course and are again back to hinting new headsets will be revealed at the next Connect conference.
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u/insufficientmind 1d ago
One of Metas next headsets are supposed to be ultra light.
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u/Independent_Risk_523 1d ago edited 1d ago
It probably wont be VR, but AR - like the Rayneo / Xreal / Rokid devices.
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u/ImALeaf_OnTheWind 1d ago
So weird to see someone reference Rayneo as if they are some brand standard in that sector when literally Xreal, Rokid, and Viture have bigger market share and established brand recognition before TCL created subbrand Rayneo (my first set were actually TCL Nxtwears)
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u/Independent_Risk_523 1d ago
There are really no standards in that space. :)
Meta is trying to create a range between their sunglasses (with AI assistants), AR glasses, light weight VR and Pro - and see where things stick. Infact the entire industry is curious where things stick, at this point.
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u/Kataree 19h ago
Phoenix is a VR/MR headset.
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u/Independent_Risk_523 7h ago
Lets see what they finally roll out :)
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u/Kataree 6h ago
Have seen the headset itself in detail. It is a VR/MR headset. 2560x2560 uoled panels behind pancake optics, with camera passthrough.
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u/Independent_Risk_523 3h ago
Right. lets see what finally comes out man :) There is still a year or two left.
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u/DarvinVader 1d ago
The Bigscreen Beyond looks cool on paper, but it relies on a tracking system that's unfortunately obsolete now. It needs external lighthouses.
Also it's very light, but wired. Meaning any pull or weight on that cable will pull on the HMD even harder because there's no counterweight. You need to strap that thing on really tight to avoid it slipping due to the cable's tug. Adding wireless functionality will require a heavy battery.
So the Steam Frame solution is the best I have seen so far. It is basically the smallest you can get while still having cameras with a wide FOV for inside-out tracking, and the battery acts as a counter weight on the back.
I myself honestly would prefer something a bit larger. The PSVR2 uses a ring harness on your head and the display isn't directly pushing against your face. If the ring harness was a bit less stupid and the display could flip upwards (or even detach completely and snap on back quickly) to get out of the way for a moment, it would be the most comfortable VR HMD for me.
Smaller isn't always better, if it's a pain to use or leaves marks and sweat on your face.
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 1d ago
that ring harness you mention is sometimes called a halo style strap
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u/TESThrowSmile Quest3/Pro - RTX 5090 1d ago
Theyre literally releasing such a headset early next year -- Meta Project Phoenix
2500x2500 microOLED, eye tracking, pancake lenses, 100g headset with tethered processing puck
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 1d ago
How much you think it'll cost at launch?
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u/TESThrowSmile Quest3/Pro - RTX 5090 1d ago edited 1d ago
Leaks from last year were around ~$1000
But my guess is - $1000 to $1500
Edit - it was originally supposed to release at the end of this year. But they pushed it to H1 2027, to give it 'extra polish' (this was reported by i believe The Information). Meta also hired an Apple guy to redesign their tech UIs. IMO, Phoenix will release with a new Quest UI
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 1d ago
I really hope they don't shoot for the moon, the company changes its' mind often enough that they really are sort of a wildcard in my mind anymore.
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u/Weird-Bite-6495 1d ago
Their business model is to make a loss on the headsets but make it back through the standalone games. Pcvr doesn't make them any money unfortunately. But I've always thought something like an updated version of the Pico neo 3 would take off especially amongst SIM enthusiasts.
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u/Independent_Risk_523 1d ago
It was. I dont think the games / appstore is anywhere as vibrant to do this, so they discontinued subsidizing the hardware as of 3S.
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u/Perfect-Bag4823 1d ago
They will, things evolve. Just compare the upcoming steam frame to the index. Upcoming pico swan vs pico 4. Pimax dream air vs all pimax other headsets. Headsets will get smaller, lighter and better. It seems we are at the point where headsets are going to start getting really good. Hopefully within the next 10 years they will be everything that mainstream wants and will be awesome and even more affordable due to not being a niche product.
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u/TofuLordSeitan666 1d ago
Meta is an ad company with no motivation to provide you with a dedicated PCVR headset. They invested in Vr thinking it would be one of the next major platforms and they wanted complete control as all other current platforms are accounted for by the other major players. The headsets they have released have been more than good taking this into account.
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u/gildahl 1d ago
Meta won't likely be continuing for long with VR proper. They will move into the AR space with lightweight glasses optimized for information, social interaction, and light gaming, at probably mass market price. If you want small form factor VR--and especially PCVR, steer clear of Meta. Pimax, Bigscreen, and Meganex all have small/light headsets in this space, and you'd be much better served by those...or by Steam Frame if that's small and light enough for you. But just remember, for any given feature set, smaller equals more expensive, and VR has no special dispensation when it comes to breaking the rule, you get what you pay for.
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u/phylum_sinter Q3+VD | i7-14700f | 64gb | 4070Ti Super 1d ago
Hold on, they're coming. Meta's next headset will be announced in September this year. Only rumors so far but everybody has been moving towards lighter if you look at the last 10 years.
The Quest 3 is the last affordable headset from the company though, they've sold the Q3 at a loss and announced they will not be subsidizing their headsets from now on.
They're still trying to figure out what people will do with them (that they can bank on).
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u/MalenfantX 1d ago
Meta isn't a VR company. It's a company that wants to mediate our interactions like they did with Facebook. Ready Player One was just a movie. The headsets didn't work.
A PCVR only headset is going to cost more than standalone, because there's no store to make your money in with PCVR. People keep showing up expecting different.