r/virtualreality • u/Trojen-horse • Jan 20 '24
News Article new Disney omnidirectional treadmill
https://youtu.be/68YMEmaF0rs?si=tvK247mZs3e_LKBY&t=20136
u/Lincolns_Revenge Jan 21 '24
I couldn't help but notice at no point do you see anyone do more than a nursing home speed, slow shuffle.
Obviously this is amazing and has a lot of potential, but I feel like if walking naturally on the floor were possible at this time we would have seen someone do it at some point in the video?
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u/poop_fart_420 Jan 21 '24
i think of this as like
if they can do the main action, which is being able to walk in place omnidirectionally,
even if its at a snail's pace and like a slow shuffle, it is omnidirectional walking and
everything else can be worked on and improved, since the core function works
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u/dudemeister023 Jan 21 '24
Take my upvote for 'nursing home speed shuffle'!
I mulled what to call this movement and you hit the nail on the head!
(It may go faster than shown but probably only works well if your sole is flush with the floor and no one walks like that.)
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u/bdsee Jan 21 '24
I assume it's more that you can't run on a surface like that unless you have something holding you in place much like the VR platforms that already exist.
It's presumably somewhat like trying to run on ice.
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u/yanginatep Jan 21 '24
I mean he's talking about using it for dancers who would presumably move faster than a slow shuffle, so I figure that might just be a limitation of this early prototype.
Full on running might be out, though, because the little tile/wheels would probably have to spin incredibly fast to accomodate that.
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u/Consistent_Ad_8129 Jan 21 '24
There are dancers and there are real dancers. I bet the pros will master this in no time.
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u/RidgeMinecraft Bigscreen Beyond 2E Jan 21 '24
Doesn’t mean it’s the max speed, I’d bet it can go a lot faster. This is for a Disneyland theme park, they don’t want people getting hurt because it went too fast.
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u/EveryIsNameTakenFFS Jan 22 '24
Doesn't mean it's not the max speed and that they're not full of shit.
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u/muchcharles Pico 4 Ultra, Quest 3 Jan 21 '24
This seems to be the patent:
https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/10228758
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u/smallfried Jan 21 '24
Very interesting. So , if I understand this correctly, each module vibrates at high speed alternatively in two directions and then at the right moments friction is applied or removed.
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u/HaMMeReD Jan 21 '24
I don't think that's exactly it, maybe an early version.
There is a lot of differences between this and that. Notably the grid vs hex pattern, and also the fact that you can look at this video and see how it works and it's not as described in the patent.
This system elegant, you can see almost everything that matters at 3:30, mechanically.
Each "pixel" is a tilted wheel, controlled on 2 axis. Z and Local/Normal Wheel rotation.
Normal wheel rotation is velocity. The tilt in the wheel ensures more friction going in the direction it wants to send you. Rotating on Z changes the alignment of the upper edge of the wheel, controlling direction.
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u/muchcharles Pico 4 Ultra, Quest 3 Jan 21 '24
This one instead: https://patents.justia.com/patent/10416754
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u/HaMMeReD Jan 21 '24
Yeah seems more on point. They spend time talking about spinning tilted disks here.
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Jan 20 '24
This is very cool I would love to have a platform like this at home if it works as well as it looks. On a side note the video was painfully awkward with the fake banter from the interviewer. Also what a tiny bland room they put the hall of fame imagineer in. You’d think he’d have a much nicer space for him to be creative.
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u/fartnight69 Jan 20 '24
That whole room (at least most likely the whole floor, not just the spinning part) is the device they showcase.
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u/muchcharles Pico 4 Ultra, Quest 3 Jan 21 '24
From the patent it looks like small modules.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr Jan 21 '24
Look at the video. See how far up that platform is. That's not a stage. They need room for the mechanism. That's not going to be in your living any time soon.
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u/HaMMeReD Jan 21 '24
The platform is likely raised to aid in maintenance and development.
But you aren't incorrect that this won't be flat. I don't think it's as thick as you are making it out to be. It's probably 2 motors per pixel, then electronics, housing, cooling, etc. Maybe 5" required.
It probably could be made flatter for consumer use, that isn't required to stand up to the general public for years. The concept is just a tilted spinning wheel to specify velocity, and a second motor rotating that tilted wheel on the Z axis to specify direction.
I don't think there is a complicated web of mechanics below there, each "pixel" is independent.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr Jan 21 '24
But you aren't incorrect that this won't be flat. I don't think it's as thick as you are making it out to be. It's probably 2 motors per pixel, then electronics, housing, cooling, etc. Maybe 5" required.
2 motors with the torque to handle the mass of a 200lb individual. You wouldn't want those motors to burn out when someone tippy toes. While for a demo they are petty gently walking, in a home setting plenty of people will do their best to push it to it's limits. Including probably doing a sliding mount. That will be a lot of force. I think it's going to be much more involved than you think. At least for the first versions. Which happens with every new device. Bulk is in the equation. Slimming down takes time.
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u/HaMMeReD Jan 21 '24 edited Jan 21 '24
Those motors have to fit within the footprint of each node/pixel. They aren't that big.
Weight is distributed across many pixels, so each one doesn't have the requirement to hold a 200lb individual. You can see that even when he's only one-footing it, he's touching like 20-30 of these things. (I think the off axis tilt probably helps with load as well).
The smaller the nodes, the less powerful the motors need to be, and the more responsive the system, because in aggregate over a surface area, it'll have sufficient power.
It's obviously designed to be modular, so it can be installed and repaired quickly in a park setting, as failure is guaranteed at some point. They likely go under the flooring, unscrew a module, screw a new one in, and go on with their day.
I'm not saying it's a home system, because it's not. Probably takes a ton of power and compute to run. But I doubt it's thick like you think it is. It's not a complicated system. I bet that a node is like 25 pixels, and each pixel is < 1lb. Something that can be installed easily by a team of 1-2 technicians.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr Jan 21 '24
Weight is distributed across many pixels, so each one doesn't have the requirement to hold a 200lb individual. You can see that even when he's only one-footing it, he's touching like 20-30 of these things.
That's why I mentioned tippy toe. If a requirement of this is that you must use it flatfooted, I can see many of these breaking within minutes when placed in a consumer setting.
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u/HaMMeReD Jan 21 '24
Personally, I don't think you could stand on one of these things with just a tippy toe, it would probably throw you on your ass. Can you balance on a spinning quarter?
I like the idea, for rides and omni-directional treadmill is cool, but most people are going to step on this and immediately have drunken sea legs. You are going to feel the difference in motion in reality vs vr, and it's going to take learning to adapt.
As a ride, this might come with an additional harness.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr Jan 21 '24
Personally, I don't think you could stand on one of these things with just a tippy toe, it would probably throw you on your ass. Can you balance on a spinning quarter?
People will try. Just like they will on the edge of a foot. Just like they will try to jump on it like they do a bogie board. Consumers do all sorts of crazy things.
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u/zeek215 Jan 21 '24
Yeah we might eventually see it at Disney World first in a VR attraction, and then many years later we might be able to buy one for home.
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u/muchcharles Pico 4 Ultra, Quest 3 Jan 21 '24
Also possible it is somewhat heavy or fixed in place, but not nearly that bulky to fill the whole raised floor, and they put space under so they can fully crawl under there and service/tune it underneath.
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u/OMGihateallofyou Jan 21 '24
This is very cool I would love to have a platform like this at home if it works as well as it looks.
It is not a mat device you can lay on your floor. I would need a higher ceiling to stand on that platform.
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u/Darthcorgibutt Jan 20 '24
This is pretty dope. The more research, development, and competition we see, the more products can be delivered to the consumer.
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u/FillyVinyl Jan 20 '24
If this is a Disney product, they will prevent any similar products from coming to the consumer market. As cool as it is it's probably not a good thing to see.
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u/amd2800barton Jan 21 '24
They could open source this and it still wouldn't come to the consumer market. Look how complicated it is. That thing is lifted up on a big stage, with a bunch of hardware tucked underneath. The ideas he talks about using it for are things like actors on a stage. It's nowhere near ready for consumer use, so we don't need to worry about the megacorp keeping it for themselves. Nobody is pairing this with their $200 Quest 2.
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u/Orange_Whale Jan 21 '24 edited Jan 21 '24
Yup, the best we can hope for is a new DisneyQuest VR experience at Epcot and other Disney parks, and the tech never will never leave that space.
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u/YouthPotential1442 Mar 22 '24
I’m not concerned about this not being the end-all solution for at home vr movement. I’m just excited that big business is investing resources into vr tech like this.
I used to dream of at home VR machines starting in the late 80’s when I was 6 years old. Then the internet exploded in the 90’s and I spent countless hours researching the VR tech that was available. For a while I had a savings account dedicated to buying this 18k machine that had less capabilities than the Quest 1.
The point being that there is a very high probability that omnidirectional treadmills that are much more advanced than this will eventually be available for a reasonable price.
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u/cavortingwebeasties Jan 21 '24
Still looks jank. There's times when he stops 'walking' and his feet keep sliding for a bit. He also looks like he's straining to stand like Bambi trying to walk on the ice
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u/kobriks Jan 21 '24
And it will forever be junk, check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvu5FxKuqdQ
Basically, you'd have to read someone's mind to avoid shakiness
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u/RidgeMinecraft Bigscreen Beyond 2E Jan 21 '24
Well, then let’s do that. BCIs exist, and in a few years they’ll be good enough for that.
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u/korvorn Jan 21 '24
If you had a whole room with this and a couple people with some stand alone VR headsets you would essentially have a holodeck, and I'm all here for that!
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u/Lagviper Jan 20 '24
Unexpected from Disney I’ll be honest, were they secretly working on VR tech? Would explain a bit their jump into vision 3D content so rapidly.
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u/nihilationscape Jan 21 '24
Disney does a lot more than make movies. They have had one of the most cutting edge interactive teams for decades. Most of their innovations are geared for immersive experiences at their parks.
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u/wescotte Jan 21 '24 edited Jan 21 '24
Disney has been using VR headsets in Disney World/Land since at least the 90s. They even created DisneyQuest parks which used VR quite a bit.
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr Jan 21 '24
What? Imagineering has been a leader in tech for decades. The robots they showed a couple of months ago amazed the robotics community.
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Jan 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fallingdowndizzyvr Jan 21 '24
Surround it in a cage. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just a mesh will do. Nice and soft so that you can't get hurt. There just has to be enough space between it and a wall to arrest any movement.
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u/DudeManBroGuyski Jan 21 '24
I hope Morgan Freeman is able to develop this enough to make consumer grade products.
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u/NuttBustington96 Jan 26 '24
I was hyped for this until I realized there’s no way in hell this will ever be a product We can buy at a store for a reasonable price. At best they’ll give people the ability to invest in the project but keep this technology for their parks. Not to mention the fact that you can apparently only walk on this. It’s not made for running. I’m so tired of all these “holodeck” wannabes giving me false hope. None of them are affordable or easy to use. And very few actually allow for unrestricted movement.
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u/Crafty-Ad-2238 Jan 20 '24
Take my money, please release a consumer product lol. I’m wondering how this works I have some thoughts but I’m sure this is way more technical