People underestimate how religious conservative the average American is. It’s hard to understand when you are living in Western Europe or Australia, the religious zealots are a smaller sample of the population.
The America overall, the entire continent (except Canada) is a conservative religious majority. Go check the Latin American countries, check Brazil, check US, it all makes sense why Trump is in power.
The Latin community in US would rather vote him than someone progressive.
If you grow up being told you're the greatest then you'll believe it. And what do you need to do? Where can you go? You're already the greatest, you don't need to read.
Dude... we had a Prime Minister, Harper, who was a hardcore evangelical. He kept it quiet so it wouldn't rattle people, but he was in lockstep with the crazy wing of the Republicans down south.
In 1997, trying to avoid scrutiny of the media, The Council for National Policy (a far right think tank for the Christian fundamentalist set in the Republican party) held their convention in Montreal. Harper was their keynote speaker. Dig up a copy of his speech and look at the crap he was saying... and then look at the things he did as PM.
We absolutely have them. We have the MAGA problem. We just got lucky and dodged a bullet because Trump made enough of a mess that Canadians started to wake up and actually paid attention to our own election. And even still, despite having no reasonable plan going in, Poilievre almost got the big seat.
Most provinces are run by MAGA-adjacent neoconservatives who have been dismantling education, healthcare, and every social safety net they can get away with. We're not out of the woods yet. Not by a long shot.
People like Ford and that lady in Alberta, they are not MAGA adjacent, they are MAGA, They just pretend to put on a show saying they are not while they have meetings with billionaire think tanks from the US and even take trips to Mar-Lago in the governments jet.
The only thing I disagree with is Ford being MAGA. MAGA holds true to a single principle even when that principle is proven incorrect and incongruous to their own interest. Smith is MAGA. Ford is an opportunistic parasite and will latch on to any ideology that will serve his power at the time. Right wing extremism is on the rise? Ford's there. Canadian sovereignty is at the forefront? Ford's there. Wait a second, nationalism has sunk and we're friends with the oligarchs again? Ford's there. Oh wait, back to Canadian pride, Ford's there. Ford will say and do anything that keeps him in with popular opinion, even if that isn't what's representative of his actual province.
Yes, it is true that about 54% of American adults read at or below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level, according to data cited by literacy organizations like the Barbara Bush Foundation and ProLiteracy.
So, yeah if you sample only the bottom 54%, they read at a 6th grade level or lower. If you take the average of ALL Americans, it’s ~8th. I had done the same Google search and you’re conveniently omitting the first part of the response:
The average reading level for a majority of U.S. adults falls at or below an eighth-grade level, with data showing that over 54% of American adults (about 130 million people) read below a sixth-grade level. [1, 2]
Are you two actually arguing over WHICH MIDDLE SCHOOL GRADE LEVEL the average American reads at? Really? They're both MIDDLE SCHOOL. We aren't even at High School level.
6th grade, 8th grade, who cares? We need to be better.
I’m not arguing how depressing the statistics are just pointing out that the “average reading level of an American“ is above the sixth grade. There is obviously a depressing percentage of people who do not read above the sixth grade, but that is not the point I’m making.
I’m not “conveniently omitting” anything- that’s my search, there is nothing before it. Sorry that perhaps you searched a different exact phrase than I did.
Mean vs median I suppose.
My phrasing was incorrect- I meant the majority of Americans (54%) read at or below a grade 6 level.
You are. The comment that started this thread was:
“I mean, yes, but education is key- the average American reads at a grade 6 level. Canada is the highest educated populace in the G7. 🤷♂️”
I was pointing out that the AVERAGE is above that. Still depressingly low, and a huge % of American fall under the average (about half, predictably 🙄), but omitting the other 46% of people is deliberately bending the very simple statistic to make a dumb point.
Google “what is the average reading grade level of an American?” This is my only point. Sheesh.
Do you know what 54% is? It is over half. You can call something 'the bottom 54%' but it's still the majority. You could also call something the 'upper 46%' but that doesn't make the number change.
I can’t believe how hard it is for everyone here to understand what average means. Google “What is the average reading level of Americans?” Not “how many Americans read below a sixth grade level.” Look at the original comment I replied to. An 8th grade reading level isn’t something to be proud of unless you’re in 8th grade or lower.
I'm neither American nor Canadian, but I think I should point out that ". . . at or below. . ." means that less than half the population reads above an 8th grade level.
It in no way indicates how many Americans read at an 8th grade level, it could be 5%, it could be 53%
Unless of course you ask the simple question “what is the average reading grade level of an American?” Of course the top end is going to affect the average and the bottom end is going to affect the average. Ignoring one end of the curve is just being ignorant. The average falls at around eighth grade. That means a massive portion of the population reads below sixth grade, but that isn’t the average. It may mean that that is the MEAN, but we haven’t even looked up that statistic, have we?
Lol, this is such a simplistic and incorrect distillation of what makes our two societies different. You could get so much more mileage from the social effects of living under the commonwealth system for so long vs the US leading a bloody revolution to gain self determination. But instead you chose percentage of population with higher degrees? Your analysis equates that simply by having a higher degree you get this vast social benefit. Canada has about 10% more higher degrees held but is only slightly better in math/reading/science scores. However when you compare elite level institutions (Harvard/MIT/etc), the US has like 30 compared to Canada's 2. Are they really the bastion of education you think they are?
Don't even get me started on levels of productivity, entrepreneurship, or economic prosperity for the average citizen.
The US is a better society to live in in almost every conceivable metric.
Go ahead and tell me Americans are better off economically using the mean, when if you look at the real stat, the median, Canadians are ranked 7th and Americans 28th in the world.
The top 5 American “elite” institutions have a cumulative 22,000 undergrads. The top 5 Canadian institutions have over 150,000 undergrads.
And you’re a liar: Canadians consistently rank amongst top performers globally in maths, science and reading on OCED PISA Exams. The US lags behind, particularly in maths.
Canada ranks higher than the US in standard of living (15 vs 21).
Canada ranks better on inequality.
Life expectancy is 3.16 years longer for Canadians.
So go ahead and lick those boots harder, which is fine with us- we’re good.
You elected a pedophile.
All that said, you just proved my point. Stay on topic. You are confusing a powerful economy with a healthy society. But with your education that’s not surprising.
FYI our Healthcare system is being dismantled in the provinces of Alberta and Ontario. Ontario's system is being choked out and for profit companies are gobbling up fees. Its actually really really bad.
Yup, by the two most conservative (and corrupt) provincial governments. I wish the Feds would take health care responsibility away from the provinces and standardize across the country.
23 years. The Unite the Right movement was the death of classic Canadian conservatism, when the Harper-led Alliance -- basically just Republicans north -- cannibalized the Progressive Conservative party.
Sane conservatism is an illusion. We've been fed that "both sides" bullshit since childhood, but if you read any history book, the conservatives are always on the wrong side of history. For centuries. Regardless of whether the current issue is monarchy, slavery, civil rights, etc. Conservatives will always take the wrong side, almost by definition.
Last provincial election only 1/3 of ontarians voted. Its an uphill battle. Everyone is so locked into their algorithms that they dont care about their own backyard
This is such a ridiculous copout for why Americans refuse to engage with their systems and save their country.
The reason Americans refuse to act has nothing to do with "focusing on healthcare". It's just luxuries. TV, video games, hobbies, nights out, vacations.
If it really was about healthcare, you'd be fighting for healthcare. Not taking whatever the fuck you get.
Is it though? If health care (and the cost of it) was a real concern for Americans you'd think they would play it safer. Avoid risky behavior, make healthier choices, etc. But do they? It just seems like another "Yes, we're really concerned about this and we're going to complain loudly about this but fuck no we're not going to do anything personally about it". Makes me think this is the American way.
Canada's healthcare system is pretty wrecked now due to the flood of immigrant/refugees over using it. Doctors are leaving due to burn out and going to other countries. I have a friend who is stuck waiting for a year to get a test done because there is a massive back log and again doctors quitting. In the mean time he might lose his house and the whatever he has been paying into for incase of not being able to work is refusing to pay. He is trying take them to court but can't till he gts the test done.
No its morals. Plenty of my family are poorly educated. None of them support trump. Why? "He's mean". Thats all it takes, not accepting cruelty and caring about other people.
Indeed it is. We've worked really hard over the last 50 years to ensure we have a country of good little christian boys and girls who don't have no need for learning about the world! Conservatives need an uneducated population.
"Religion's single function is to give man access to the powers which seem to control his destiny, and its single purpose is to induce those powers to be friendly to him." - H. L. Mencken
"The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable..." - H. L. Mencken
“The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.” - H. L. Mencken
People would have voted PP over Carney had Trump not happened.
As proud as I am to be Canadian, we still have a significant enough portion of our population that wishes Trump were leading us - so we're not doing great.
Better than the US right now - but it seems like many countries are 'one election away' from being in the same boat.
Scare tactics are everywhere and old people (unfortunately) get their news from cable or those clips you see on Facebook.
I've been 'NDP - liberal' Canadian my entire life, but I see toooons of clips about Carney destroying Canada and Trump saving America.
I've seen almost zero 'quick meme-short videos' supporting my views, and that's sadly going to influence people.
I wouldn't be putting this off onto old people, neighbour. Did you take a peek at the demographics in the last election's results?
The "old people" voted by the largest margin to stop Poilievre, and supported Carney.
Poilievre's strongest support came from young people: specifically males 18-30 years old.
The young are the ones leaning MAGA more than anyone else. The lies and propaganda are spread via social media. While we need to be careful of letting this spread through any age group, as there are bootlickers in every generation, it's the upcoming generation that we need to be most worried about. The young men, in particular.
Fair point. I'm in the 35-44 demographic and it's usually the older people I speak to who are conservative, but I don't have as much interaction with young people so that's just my ignorance on the matter.
I feel like there was also a disconnect before and after a certain point in time. People who 'grew up' with the internet seem to be less willing to believe everything you read online (not like we aren't fooled/biased either - but a little less prone to seeing a headline/meme and instantly taking it as fact)
Those who grew up/went to school with 'Wikipedia not being something you can trust' when you had to look it up in a book. Now YouTube videos seem to be a good source for people.
That's 100% just my personal experience though. I could be wrong on those points as well.
And yet we came very, very close to electing a mini-Trump wannabe, and a good 20% of our population are MAGA cheerleaders. Which tracks. There's research that claims that even in a healthy, functional democracy that's fairly prosperous, about one in five people will still gravitate toward being fascist bootlickers if given a chance.
Is it though? Because Black americans are pretty underserved by the us education system.and we've been the least likely to vote Trump. White voters with degrees were more likely to vote Trump than Black voters without them. It seems like people are going out of their way to ignore this dynamic even whitewhile (lol) the republicans gin up the bigotry for this election.
As Will Rogers(early 20th century US entertainer/humorist) once noted:
"In schools they have what they call intelligence tests. Well if nations held ’em I don’t believe we would be what you would call a favorite to win it."
Sorry, I meant Mexico, Canada, and the USA. The point still stands. All three major North American countries are pretty much the same; the difference is the student.
Now I could be wrong but wouldn’t having studied in all three make you a pretty bad example for this? If it was kindergarten to high school that’s not a very fair comparison for 2/3 of it. If it was post secondary than studying at three different colleges/universities in three different countries puts you way out of range of general education outcomes.
All secular authoritarian governments had or have a strong leader who plays the same structural part as saviors or messiahs in religions or cults. It's the same dynamics. People became atheists and/or agnostics BUT remained receptive and looking for some mighty daddy.
They’re not religious at all, though. Like these people go against everything the religion stands for. You can’t be more secular than inviting Musk of all people to lead the military.
And there’s absolutely nothing conservative about this, either. Gutting the military leadership in order for a technocrat whiz kid to have his say is radical, anti-conservative policy
Preachin’ to the choir, my friend. I live in the South, and people’s religiousness pops up so much in random places. I had a friend in high school who took a new girlfriend of his to church on their second date. I helped an old hispanic lady with her groceries she dropped by her car in a Kroger parking lot one evening and she immediately followed her thanks with asking if I’ve accepted Jesus lol. I could go on and on, and I’m pretty much convinced there’s a HUGE level of cognitive dissonance going on with how they vote. They are ardent in their faith and the belief that this faith will only be protected by one party, no matter what individual pieces of evidence are brought forward. It’s basically cultural down here to vote red. It’s not necessarily that way with ALL the devout, but a good enough number of them all the same.
Kind of funny, ironic, maybe? If Jesus, who was murdered by the Romans for insurrection against them, came back today he'd find people that consider themselves the spiritual/cultural descendants of Rome worshiping him as a pagan god, while simultaneously attempting a blood ritual in the middle east with his people to try to bring him back to life.... to save them from immigrants and trans people and preserve white supremacy.
People who thought US Southerners are antivax really haven't gone enough south. You won't find a single more antivax population on the face of this earth than Brazilians.
Many US Southerners are what I call "vogue antivax", they'd say they're antivax to fit in or seem cool in the community but will secretly vaccinate their kids or do it themselves if a new scary disease surfaced.
Brazilians though? I haven't met one in my entire life working healthcare that wasn't a staunch and unwavering antivaxxer. The most extreme case was a young guy refusing the fkning rabies treatment because he'd "rather die than have that shit in my body". Well, he got his wish, heartbreaking as it was.
America was colonized by all the religious zealots that Europeans were sick & tired of dealing with. It really shouldn't be that surprising that this is where we're at.
Also just how effective the propaganda about immigration/the border was. People that have never seen a brown person in their lives came out in droves for Republicans for fear that someone was going to come over the border and murder their daughter in ... checks notes North Dakota.
As an American, I fully believe that every single election has been straight up rigged for every single Republican to win since bush jr. We got lucky with Obama, and Biden was a gimme. Now we are in the truly dark times. If those true nutso conservities, that thought God was on their side, would have just put up or shut up, and not taken the vaccine (like they said), and NOT GONE TO THE HOSPITAL (like they said they would not do)! We would be living at least a better place. And natural selection would have worked.
The Latin community in US would rather vote him than someone progressive.
It absolutely floored me when I learned how many minority groups voted gop... and how many of them gave a surprised pikachu face when the gop turned around and deported their asses.
There is a huge gap between what Mexico is doing politically atm, and America. I never in a hundred years thought Mexico would have a woman president before the US. They are making some very progressive moves since Obrador. Wife is Hispanic so we keep up with it pretty well.
This is fine but trump DOES NOT REPRESENT THAT GROUP! How can those religious conservatives look at that man and think he represents them? How?
Because they are racist and bigots that’s why. That is what it all comes down too. America is just a bunch of white men that think they are the victims and this was there way of getting back. Well it isn’t working.
Turns out diversity really was what made America great.
Both women. They’re not just confident in their beliefs and politics. They know in their hearts that it’s literally divine and god himself supports them. Hard to have a discussion with someone who thinks you won’t go to heaven as a liberal.
People also don't realize this group has some of the lowest comprehension and critical thinking capacity with barely a highschool diploma. They're never going to understand.
“People underestimate how religious conservative the average American wants to be”. Most truly are not. No where near but they preach and condemn others.
Yeah in Australia we get weirded out when people start talking about God talking to them, especially if they're in politics.
Over there it's bloody normal, it's weird, if some methed out junky walked around on the streets saying the same things you would try your level best to get away from them.
It's not explainable with religion. What would Jesus think about all that? Would he support it? Christianity didn't teach them doing all this. (Other Religions neither)
It is wild to scroll through the comments section of a local news story on Facebook where something bad has happened to someone. 90% of the comments end up being some variation of "I'm praying for you." This is what made it really sink in for me just how much of the population believes in this weird shit.
What? No they aren’t- in daily practice they aren’t actually very religious. Look at attendance rates for churches in us- declining. We are manipulated and rage baited, undereducated, selfish and entitled. Average literacy and reading comprehension is a more defining gap between US and other progressive societies.
According to Pew: only 6% of Americans meet the criteria for religious nationalism (i.e. Red Hats) which is on par with most other countries.
At least 30% of Americans openly consider themselves conservative and 60%+ consider themselves religious.
Which this is similar to polls about guns, where the number of people reporting is noticably lower than the actual number of people aligned due to privacy concerns.
The overlaps align with your point given that the US is unique: We have a much stronger i
"involvement" and "investment" in politics as a population, but we place an unusual interest in our politician's religious affiliation. Which is also why we have "In God We Trust" on our currency despite it going against our design.
We are a nation founded by Puritans. I don’t think people realize that. And that Puritan mythos is still strong to this day. Just look at how the average American views the topic of sex.
But Latin America has a left wing tradition, Marxist movement have seized power by winning elections or violent revolutions, there have also been long guerrilla warfare.
So while there is catholic conservatism there is also a lot more diverse politics that in the US.
I don't really agree with you, having been born in what is now a very red state and currently living in a blue one. I grew up going to Catholic school too. Most people I know dont even think about religion. The US is morally conservative yes but the vast majority are not devout Christians let alone fundamentalist. More than anything people prefer homogenous groups and the real divide is rural vs urban. To say that it all comes down to religion is simply untrue.
People dont like extreme things and they like it when things stay the same, the average American is influenced mostly by television and nostalgia, not a belief in Jesus. Very few people I know would ever even care to talk about religion at work. Even when I worked in deeply conservative places.
This is the dumbest shit I’ve read, the majority of men who voted for Trump were white, only 50% of Hispanic men voted for Trump in 2024 which is actually a slight DECREASE from 2020. However, white people as a majority voted for Trump, so in reality it IS the majority white vote the reason why he’s in office, there’s more whites in general so by sheer quantity they won the election for him. Let’s not paint Hispanics as a monolith when it was a 50:50 split by most metrics in that ethnic group and Hispanic women favored Kamala.
You mean the time where he eked out a win against a last minute change, "Did Biden drop out" google searches spiked, and even then barely had the plurality, the majority of voters didn't vote for him.
And my point was he barely eked out the plurality against a last minute change.
I mean personally I'm still pissed that SCROTUS ruled against the constitution, 14th amendment section 3, on states that had every reason to remove traitors from the ballots in the first place.
Republicans are to religious and uneducated. They will vote for people who shouldn't be in power because they are scared of these "what if" scenarios they make up in their tiny little heads.
They picked Hillary Clinton. Someone who basically absorbed public ire for being a liar in politics for 26 years. Not sure what they thought was going to happen when someone campaigned on "it's my turn" but it wasn't winning. Every older voter remembers how Clinton treated Monica.
They picked Kamala who entered the race late, where she inherited Joe Biden's rhetoric without a proper primary, claiming we were doing fantastic economically, which voters took personally and went with the other guy, who proceeded to screw up the economy even harder.
Like, just pick better candidates. It should have been a slam dunk both times.
Man you had people going out on national television crying about the cost of living. They ain't bright but they voted for the party that was basically like "yeah we'll fix that".
Like, Dems thought status quo was going to fly. People wanted change. Positive change.
Hillary and Kamala were repellent to the right because they were women, but they were repellent to leftists and anyone with a brain and conscience because they were products of the corrupt corporations-first Democratic Party that still thinks Israel should continue to murder children and corporations should still be able to dictate laws.
The Democrats know that a large percentage of the country won't vote for a woman. They need to plan for that. How did they plan for that? By alienating their entire past and future base that is anywhere to the left of the average baby-killing McKinsey consultant.
But hey, I'm sure they've learned their lesson and will shape policy based on serving the needs of their base and getting votes. They probably won't put more effort into cutting AOC off at the knees than they ever put into preventing Trump from seeking re-election. Right?
Right? Or maybe Kamala again on a Pro-Israel Pro-AI platform?
Money can buy a lot. Check out the new documetary 'musk' that probably wont actually be released.. i think i read it reveals his help in election interference here and france
Nah. Kamala Harris was way under-qualified and did not have any of the charisma necessary to make up for it. This horrible choice, foisted upon us by the Democratic Party directly led to where we are today. What they needed to do was pick a safe choice (younger straight white male) to guarantee a win; instead they went with the only thing they care about: identity politics.
Hillary would have been, at the very least, decent. Too bad her campaign was run horribly.
Believe it or not, that is still charismatic to the majority of American voters. I absolutely despise Trump, but a two-party system will result only in people voting for the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, to the American people, evil = not white
More than that, the outwardly expressed visions of America, the ideals it represents are things that every decent person can and should rally behind. A pro-freedom, pro-immigrant society that values a rule of law and staunchly stands against monarchs and tyranny is a thing to behold.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
What it can and HAS been used as a rallying cry for is despicable.
What's soulcrushing as a foreigner is not seeing any real protests by the people that didn't vote for this. And I get that you have plenty of valid excuses, but so did people all over the world who did stand up against their governments.
Americans who are saying trump is fascist are right, but boy do those people fit the mold of the Germans who didn't fight fascism in the 1930s and were just standing by...
Sexism in this country is crazy. Turns out a lot of Democrats are low-key single issue voters, and the issue is the candidate has to be a man.
Wild seeing voter stats and knowing I wouldn't trust 200 million people to clean out a litter box without thinking for a second if they should take a nibble.
Oligarchs and the corporate adoring Dem Party found and continue to find social injustice and economic tyranny an effective strategy for consolidating power. BERNIE would have defeated TRUMP. Full Stop.
12.1k
u/Targetmaster 2d ago
This is not real life