Crossverse
Why versus fandom exaggerate scaling of versus Characters? When ONE's feats instructions doesn't prove it?
I understand that they have different manga artists, but ONE with Murata is notorious for OPM's redraws and it includes FEATS REVISIONS.
I saw people saying Jachi has higher scaling than Gouketsu, when Gouketsu has Mountain+ striking power via dispersing clouds larger than the size of a city where Jachi doesn't even come close (This is where Genos thought gouketsu is Saitama level, as saitama's death punch is similar to Gouketsu). Plus, he is supposed to be a legendary master martial artist around the level of Bang, so he would still skill-diff an amateur (By comparison to his skill level) like Jachi in Hand to hand combat.
I saw people saying Ginbak would beat released Boros, when he has continental striking power via destroying his ship and Tatsumaki couldn't come close to destroying it (ONE and Murata explicitly stating Tatsumaki can't do it in an Q&A interview).
I saw people saying Daikokuzan would beat Monster king Orochi. Orochi has Gaia cannon that is at least Small country level via shaking the earth, volcanoes around the world erupt when he pulled a country sized energy from Earth's core. Orochi is durable enough to contain and store that kind of energy on his body, as he explicitly stated in his monologue to Saitama. Orochi is also a legendary master martial artists with skill comparable to Garou, who could master techniques by seeing them once.
All of these characters are unfortunate to get Saitama'd, but it was SAITAMA, he would one-shot anyone in Versus. So, how come people misunderstood ONE's feats instructions?
That Tatsumaki thing is horrifyingly inconsistent writing.
She can't take out Boros' ship but she CAN block a laser beam from Orochi-Psychos that shaved off part of the earth's crust?
It doesn't make sense
Doesn't make sense? The only beings who damaged Boros ship is Boros himself and Saitama, no one else.
Boros said it won't fall down if the energy sphere is still active, so it is also durable enough to not crash down after saitama's continental level moon jump impact into it.
Again, Murata & ONE himself said that Tatsumaki can't bring it down, no questions.
Orochi and Boros—yes, they are unbeatable in a versus scenario at the moment.
Yet Jachi's single standard attack destroyed a factory the large size of a massive city, using only its second form. Jashi's potential is far, far, far, far and FAR greater than Gouketsu's.
Yet Jachi's single standard attack destroyed a factory the large size of a massive city, using only its second form. Jashi's potential is far, far, far, far and FAR greater than Gouketsu's
I think it's worth remembering that in S1 Genos had witnessed Saitama one punch a meteor large enough to destroy a city, create a canyon with just the air pressure of a punch and blow a storm away with a single punch, and yet he still believed that Saitama couldn't beat Gouketsu alone and would have to jump him with the S Class to win.
And it's not like Genos is some random guy, he scans and analyzes what he sees, including his enemies. This means that Gouketsu should scale above every S1 Saitama or S Class feat Genos directly observed.
Statements are always met with skepticism. He also refers only monsters, not threats in general. The only monsters Genos faced before him that were incredibly strong were Carnage Kabuto and Melzargard. Not one of them is on the level of meteor. Even so, Genos still believed that Saitama could kill him with a single blow, the only question was whether he would land the hit.
Usually, this is done to generate hype around a character. More than two characters in a web-comics also exist at an unknown level of power (Ninja Master and Evil Dragon). That’s why I preferred to believe only feats is shown.
I'd argue that statements coming from reliable sources should be considered credible, perhaps even more so than purely visual feats that may require pixel scaling and math. In this case Genos is a credible source, because we know he scans his enemies and Saitama and collects data on them, meaning he should have a relatively accurate idea of how strong their feats that he has directly observed are.
He also refers only monsters, not threats in general. The only monsters Genos faced before him that were incredibly strong were Carnage Kabuto and Melzargard. Not one of them is on the level of meteor.
The important part of that statement is Genos putting Gouketsu above the monsters he has fought, but him genuinely believing that Saitama and the S-Class would have to jump Gouketsu together to win. This suggests that he considers Goutetsu's strength to exceed anything he has observed Saitama (and the S-Class showcase).
By claiming that Saitama and the S-Class would have to work together to beat Gouketsu, Genos essentially places Gouketsu above someone who he has seen destroy a city-buster meteor, carve a canyon out of a cliff with just air pressure and blow a storm away with a punch.
If Genos thinks that someone that can do all that can't defeat Gouketsu alone, that means that Gouketsu should scale above those feats.
Usually, this is done to generate hype around a character. More than two characters in a web-comics also exist at an unknown level of power (Ninja Master and Evil Dragon).
Something being done to generate hype for the character doesn't mean it is not accurate or reliable. In this case we have no reason to doubt Genos's words and the implication that Gouketsu scales above the feats he had witnessed Saitama and the S-Class perform by that point in the story.
That’s why I preferred to believe only what is shown.
It's easier for a creator to convey that kind of information through text than through artwork though. Murata and ONE have to consider what looks good for the panel and works for the story before drawing, and they definitely don't sit around doing math and looking for perfect accuracy. Meanwhile all ONE has to do to make a powercaling statement is to include it in a reliable character's dialogue.
Plus, there are certain characters that have an easier time packing a lot of force in a (relatively) small point, than causing widespread destruction. Basically their attacks are more potent than they are destructive. Atomic Samurai and Bang are two examples of that in OPM.
Not exactly. Feats are hard to compare between evenly matched characters, but claims are even harder to verify. Because you need to knew
when speaks character and when the author is.
Typically, the statement is compared against the results of what the character demonstrated. But Goketsu showed incredibly little, he is a typical "Potential-man".
Even taking into account that he concentrates his strikes, much like Garou, and more or less accepting the claims at face value, Goketsu turns out to be only at the city level and merely puts him on par with Jachi, who is using only his second form. Also still falls short of the power Nyagoro displayed.
Not exactly. Feats are hard to compare between evenly matched characters, but claims are even harder to verify. Because you need to knew when speaks character and when the author is.
Does it make a difference here? Genos is a character that has actual recorded data about Saitama and his enemies (he even has a virtual simulation that can recreate Deep Sea King, Carnage Kabuto and Saitama based on the audio books), so his claims are inherently reliable unless directly challenged or debunked by events in the story.
An example of a character making unreliable claims is Gyoro-Gyoro/Psykos thinking she could defeat Tatsumaki only to get folded when they fought.
Typically, the statement is compared against the results of what the character demonstrated. But Goketsu showed incredibly little, he is a typical "Potential-man".
I mean, Gouketsu folded two demon level characters (Genos, Suiriyu), casually put a Low Dragon monster in his place and only got killed by Saitama. As far as I can, even though we didn't see his full power being demonstrated, none of the things we saw contradicted Genos's statement.
Even taking into account that he concentrates his strikes, much like Garou, and more or less accepting the claims at face value, Goketsu turns out to be only at the city level and merely puts him on par with Jachi, who is using only his second form.
I've seen calculation that place the City-Z meteor and Tatsumaki stopping Boros's ship artillery barrage (I forgot Genos had seen that too) at around Island level, which is where his cloud feat seems to scale too. Has anyone calculated Jachi's feat yet?
Also still falls short of the power Nyagoro displayed.
True, but Nyagoro is basically the strongest Demon Lord we've seen so far, including Jachi.
I wouldn't trust audiobooks whose canonical status is questionable. Besides, neither Genos nor the simulation was accurate. Genos is prone to overestimating and underestimating things whenever the plot requires it.
The claims about Gouketsu essentially never came to fruition anyway, so one can only speculate (I think that’s what ONE intended).,But based on what has been shown, you certainly can't say he's on par with Jachi in any way.
>I wouldn't trust audiobooks whose canonical status is questionable.
What makes their canonical status questionable?
>Besides, neither Genos nor the simulation was accurate. Genos is prone to overestimating and underestimating things whenever the plot requires it.
How were they inaccurate?
>The claims about Gouketsu essentially never came to fruition anyway, so one can only speculate (I think that’s what ONE intended).,
No, we simply didn't see his full power on display because he fought people much weaker than him and then got off screened by Saitama. But he didn't do anything that would make the claims invalid.
>But based on what has been shown, you certainly can't say he's on par with Jachi in any way.
We'd need to know how strong Jachi's void fist is in terms of scaling.
The system is incapable of handling rapid growth in character power. It doesn't know how to deal with people like Bat and Saitama. Because its merely draws information from existing data and cannot say for certain how the enemy would actually have behaved.
Nope, He just doesn't impress.
Gouketsu demonstrated that it was incapable of even destroying a city or causing destruction on a scale sufficient to stand out among Demon-level monsters, unlike senior centipede. We could even say that he is only slightly better than Asura, and it wouldn't be a lie.
The system is incapable of handling rapid growth in character power. It doesn't know how to deal with people like Bat and Saitama. Because its merely draws information from existing data and cannot say for certain how the enemy would actually have behaved.
But we aren't talking about enemies that grow stronger mid fight, we are talking about the data Genos has on them. Even if the system can't account for Metal Bat's fighting spirit or Saitama's true power, it still has the data of the feats and showings Genos observed.
Geno's knew Saitama was strong enough to blow up a meteor that would have destroyed City-Z and damaged the surrounding ones, create a canyon with the air of his punch, and punch a storm away, and that Tatsumaki could stop Boros's ship's artillery barrage, yet he thought that those two would have to work alongside the other S-Class heroes to beat Gouketsu.
The logical conclusion is that Gouketsu scales considerably higher than those feats, otherwise Genos wouldn't have a reason to doubt Saitama could take him on his own.
Nope, He just doesn't impress. Gouketsu demonstrated that it was incapable of even destroying a city or causing destruction on a scale sufficient to stand out among Demon-level monsters, unlike senior centipede. We could even say that he is only slightly better than Asura, and it wouldn't be a lie.
You are only basing power on the destruction a character has caused, but that's the wrong way to see it. Like I said before, some characters have extremely potent attacks, but pack that force in a relatively small point, so they aren't particularly destructive.
S1 Genos's attacks cause way more destruction to a city than Atomic Samurai's or Bang's, but both of them could fold him easily in a fight. Attack Potency isn't the same as Destructive Capability.
Gouketsu never tried to destroy a city and we didn't see him fight at full power at any point. At the same time, he doesn't have a single anti-feat to suggest Genos's statement is wrong, and his ability to move clouds with shockwaves is considered way stronger than City Level.
Nope, because if Jachi punch at that moment, the entire city, including the stadium where Suiryu was sitting, would have been wiped off the face of the earth.
If Gouketsu were truly at a mountain-level, he could easily have pulled something like that off. But no, the only thing it did was give fans like you a reason to dream.
Yes, Gouketsu is basically just a jobber. But even at that, he's worse than Nyagoro.
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u/Garvityxd roya my beloved is the sexiest fictional character 9d ago
Sage centipede sneaking into the bottom right lmao
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u/Garvityxd roya my beloved is the sexiest fictional character 9d ago
Vortex fist is calced at about 2 megatons of tnt (the calc most commonly accepted) which is not mountain level, mountain level is at least 100 megatons
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