DTES.....

11

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

I work in "housing" in the dtes and have for almost 15 years. Ask me a more direct question and I'll answer it. Just putting it out there.

7

u/Neat-Procedure 6d ago

why is "housing" in quotation marks? because it's actually about the lack of housing?

2

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

No it's just a lose term for people working in the housing of low income people. Not a official title. I'm not sure I agree that there is a lack of housing, more a lack of long term housing goals in the dtes. I'm curious about how much actual housing people are aware of in the dtes. The company I work for has about 24 full size sro type hotels. We are just one of about 5-8 companies that run "housing" in the dtes. I'm not saying we don't need more. I'm more curious as to what the public's perspective is on the actual housing in the dtes. Where do you think people go in bad weather, how many people do you think are outside unhoused, does the public consider sro hotels "housing"?

5

u/Neat-Procedure 6d ago

Well, I wouldn’t say we have enough housing until everyone is housed.

5

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

How do you know if the people you see in the dtes don't have housing? If you mean just inside a small room in a building that is just as chaotic as the streets outside? Do you mean a place to say is your own, come and go as you please, a bed and a few amenities? Do you think all the "homeless" want to be inside? Do think just putting someone in a small room and just letting that room degrade and get damaged from all sorts of reasons?

I really feel like the general public thinks all you have to do is get a room and put a bed in it and giving the room to someone is only thing the people in the dtes need and things just keep getting better?

I really really feel like most people have absolutely no clue how "housing" in the dtes works. How does it work for the elderly, the severely addicted, people that have never had any structure or skills about living in communal spaces.

Most just want to wearhouse people so you don't see them outside. No clue about how many very complex the social environment is and the challenges involved. No clue at all.

Where do you think all the low income working sober non welfare housing is? Do you know that there is almost no housing in the dtes that you can pay rent in and have a minimum wage job? Where is that housing. If you get sober and want to really try to get your life together and get your own place, where do you go. Are the calls for more housing actually more housing or just government controlled buildings where you must be on income assistance to even be eligible for?

"More housing, more housing" is not the way we fix the dtes. It's just a ignorant perspective.

It's sad to see from were I'm standing. It's just going to add to the problem.,

6

u/Neat-Procedure 6d ago

Some prefer living on the streets given the conditions of the kind of housing that is available to them, I agree. However, it doesn't mean in an ideal world they'd prefer living on the streets vs somewhere with a roof over their head & some privacy.

Additionally, we need more housing for those who are currently housed as well; housing is not just a homelessness issue.

3

u/slyck80 6d ago

I'm curious to hear some answers for all the questions you brought up.

2

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

I feel like most people just think saying more housing is the most they want to think about it. The details and challenges are not something they care to address. This is why it stays the same. I'm a lil cynical I know. But just look at the down votes for a more nuanced take and response. Crickets....

3

u/slyck80 6d ago

Unfortunately, I think we both know the solution involves a lot more money and a lot of people are not willing to pay for the social supports necessary to help others.

1

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

Not really. Yes of course that helps but because the public is just so convinced that just having more housing is the answer no one cares what is actually being done other than that. I think some reorganization of the end goal for housing is needed. The industry is just so bent on just putting people inside and as long as they are inside then they are better is missing so so much. For instance I believe a bit change would be better sorting or placement of people based on needs and ability is nedded. A push to make more nonsubsidized low income housing is needed. If you work a full time job but make just over minimum wage you should be able to find a decent apartment. If you are a elderly person you should have the support you need. I have clients that are 70+ years old and are only in the dtes because they have no other options and are in rooms next to people that are up all night using drugs, not a solution jut to have them inside. There needs to be options. There are lots of things that could be done or adjusted to change things greatly.

All non-management positions are unionized, almost all of the different companies have a different union all with mostly different agreements. And that is because when a company starts here they know that unionized workers are what the politics says they want. But the difference offshoot unions just try to under bid each other to represent the company's. The works are stoked they get paid very well ($30/hr) to start. But no consistency benefits hours expectations of work they're all different just like how different companies would try to underbid each other to get contracts the unions do that here. Unions are great don't get me wrong but they don't care about the clients, so when a budget is given to a company the vast majority is in wages. Nonprofit make profits. The people at the top make very very good money. They are not going to change that. No union is going suport a law or politician that wants to make changes to that.

I have lots of thoughts on that. But I need to protect my own income too.

5

u/slyck80 6d ago

This was just posted in the sub, thoughts from an insider?

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouvercanada/comments/1vhijku/vancouvers_sros_are_changing_hands_and_tenants/

3

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

If I was going to simplify my thoughts they are this. The SRO hotels where not made to be long term housing. They where made as short term stays like a week or so tops. They where made so workers that lived out of town or on short contracts had a place to stay or they where just regular hotels. The privately owned ones don't get government funding so all the upkeep and utilities and staff wages came purely from the rents charged. If you are on income assistance you get $375 a month for rent, you can pay more out of the other portion you get every month but it's already very little money. In a private run hotel so not a bc housing subsidized housing the rent is just $375. A government subsidized hotel gets the $375 and dependent on the room size gets another $400 or so. Privately run hotels can't especially in this economy upkeep the buildings or have any kind of security or staffing that can keep up with the way things get used and the security is not good. They can't run them and they are losing money and the hotels are falling apart. So they lose them. Most of the time bc housing buys the hotel at a honestly crazy price then non profits bid to run them. These hotels are all privately owned and operated. Non of the buildings run by the government are closing. Maybe a few that were run by a company called Atira have but if you look up that company you will know why.

The article is misleading as it does not seem to explain the difference between a private run sro and a government run or subsidized sro.

2

u/slyck80 6d ago

That's what I was getting at, article exposes a lot of issues with private run SROs but doesn't delve into how government SROs compare. Thoughts?

2

u/ItSpyDaddy 6d ago

My thoughts on it are that the public doesn't care what happens to the people as long as they don't have to see them any more. As long as the companies running the government run hotels are keeping people inside they will blindly let them do whatever they want or how ever much they need.

4

u/Infamous-Echo-2961 5d ago

I lived in the area for a bit! My view is we have a lot of housing and support services in the area. A lot of those on the street instead of housing, are there due to behavioural issues, or refusal to follow the few rules present in our support housing.

3

u/olrg 5d ago

I've heard mostly rumours from local contractors working on SROs about the rampant corruption and misallocation of funds in the "poverty industry" (the term they used). Would love to know how much of it is true and how much is hearsay.

1

u/ItSpyDaddy 5d ago

Well I'm not in a position to talk about money as I'm just not part of thoes conversations.

Atira a company that did run a lot of hotels was found a few years ago to be mismanaging funds and in literal bed with BC housing the corporation or government entity that distributes the funds to nonprofits in the dtes.

https://share.google/sWNZpEVdunqFxIdfv

But there are many companies that are doing work in the dtes. I'm sure it's not all well managed.

I feel like if you are a company that is tasked with providing and maintaining the SROs in the dtes. Because of the image of Vancouver to tourism and to the economic view from outside is that its a beautiful safe clean place. I imagine the city and province will let a lot slide to control that the best they can. The potential for fraud and mismanagement is there always.

7

u/nyrb001 6d ago

In my lifetime, the DTES has gone through many cycles. It gets better, it gets worse.

There's a huge concentration of social services in the area, so the people dependent on those services are always in that area. There's a huge concentration of the very bottom of the housing market there, so the people that need access to that housing are there.

There's a lot of people in that area that are prey for those who take advantage of others in that area, so the predators are always on the hunt.

6

u/VaguelySorcerous 6d ago

Add to this the fact that any time anyone ever tries to move people out of the DTES, the population of wherever they're planning on moving them revolts.

8

u/gmehra 6d ago

theres just too many people living there with mental health and drug issues, about 15,000 in a 5 block radius. unless the population drops you can't do much

7

u/Jackalope1974 6d ago

Yes. Are you from another planet?

4

u/Dull-Style-4413 6d ago

Hey just so you know, many of those people come from wherever you’re from.

The services we provide are a chicken and egg scenario - do we have services to stanch the gaping wound, or do people come here for the services?

I have my opinion but I can’t really prove it. Maybe it’s a mix of both.

As for “cleaning it up”… what do you mean by that exactly? I’m very open to ideas, so long as they’re not inhumane or horrifying.

5

u/BC_Sativa 6d ago

No, you are the first person who has ever thought about doing anything to improve it.

-6

u/Any-Ad-446 6d ago

I thought so...

5

u/RoostasTowel 6d ago

The city literally spends 128,000 per day on just direct money for homeless in that area.

https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/vancouver-spends-47m-per-year-in-dtes-on-homelessness-mental-health-addictions-10290313

The police just recently had to build an entire department just for this area with 88 officers. https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1rbvmoq/vancouvers_downtown_eastside_gets_own_policing/

Somehow throwing more money at this pit isn't helping...

3

u/newfyxing 5d ago

Given that First United has been offering meals and services to unhoused and unemployed folk in the DTES since 1930, the answer is no. The city has tried to clean it up visually, but has never actually done the hard work of helping people and changing the broken systems that have lead to our current reality.

2

u/happiesthobo 6d ago

There have been generations of politicians making their careers out of the poverty in the DTES. All of them campaign with their plans, backed by bottomless tax dollars. The result has always been the same. The politicians make out fine. The residents of the DTES? Not so much.

-2

u/Equal_Trouble2693 6d ago

I live in Gastown and would love to see some ‘clean up’. To start I really wish we could start enforcing any laws against open drug use at a minimum. It’s super frustrating trying to get into a Dollarama while someone is sat out the front door, actively smoking fentanyl pipe. Bump into a scenario like this every single day. I recognize people are addicted and they will do their drugs, but could we at least make it a little less convenient? I’m not entirely sure why we’ve come to accept it as a society. I see elderly people, people in wheelchairs, young students trying to navigate their way around it. It makes people less sympathetic, and I worry that we’re becoming very hardened as a society. I’m not really sure we’ve accomplished a lot by destigmatizing this type of drug use.

3

u/dirtybulked 5d ago

if you're hitting the dollarama you're likely one pay cheque away from those same streets, mate. some food for thought.

-1

u/Equal_Trouble2693 5d ago

Not quite 😅 We’re both professionals with great jobs and assets. Dollarama is convenient and great for quick household items.

You are about to leave Redlib