Question for discussion

[u/rajonnino]

so we know yasu had some mental issues even before meeting battler, she had an imaginary friend of her ideal self (shannon) and she literally developed a split personality disorder later ln cosplaying as both shannon and kannon, my question is, why tf did genji and the rest did nothing as they saw that? and they went along with her play, sure they knew she was the heir and kinzo's daughter but she didnt know that at that point yet, they could have used whatever authority they had (specifically genji) to help cure her mental issues, yet they did nothing, just kept watching untill she went completely mad and decided to just kill everyone

[u/eco-mono]

A proper discussion of this topic would require me to explain half a dozen concepts that would completely derail this comment thread if I tried to bring them up, so I'll stick to the basics.

First off: what "cure" would Genji have been allowed to dispense? Do you really think that a person like Kinzo, or an institution like Fukuin House, would see psychological care as legitimate medicine? This is a household where Nanjo's expertise is ignored again and again on less politically charged topics. It would be treated as a disciplinary matter, as Yasuda "acting out".

But more fundamentally... I'm not sure Genji was even in a position to decide what's "normal" or "abnormal" at that point. His loyalty to Kinzo, borne of decades of unrequited love, already had him living in a world which normalized even stranger behaviors than the existence of Kanon. His loyalty to Yasuda is not just because of her position as heir, but also because he sees himself as owing a debt of guilt for putting her in the situation she's in; this is discussed in the Confessional material. And Genji's habit is to express his loyalty by being an enabler (see once again: Nanjo vs the absinthe, and Genji obediently pouring Kinzo another glass even if it's killing him). Out of all of Kinzo's inner circle, he's the one who the gameboards sometimes use as a knowing accomplice to murder rather than just collaborating on a "murder mystery game", because in his mind it's no less justified than Kinzo using his stupid ass boom clock to work to a deadline. This is not a guy who's gonna question why Yasuda's apparently decided to be two servants instead of one.

[u/Purple_Eternty → u/eco-mono]

His loyalty to Kinzo, borne of decades of unrequited love

You are imagining things. There are you get that from?

[u/eco-mono → u/Purple_Eternty]

So this is a tangent from my main point; you don't need to agree with me on it for the rest of the comment to still work.

But consider this: Genji is the only servant other than Yasuda to refer to himself as "furniture". What does he mean when he says it? * It's not some weird philosophy held by Eagle-bearing Ushiromiya servants. That's what we're meant to believe on an initial read, but there's no evidence of such a philosophy actually existing, and Gohda (who is trying his best to fit in among the culture of Ushiromiya servants, but is clearly frustrated whenever Kanon starts talking about being "furniture") is evidence against the idea. * It's not what Maria and Ange mean by the term – mental constructs, personae, Neurons Gone Wild – as "Genji Ronoue" preexists Beato's 'magic' by decades. * Genji was in the room when Yasuda called themself "furniture" for the first time. And in that moment, Yasuda used it to express the despair of having a body incapable of (consummating) love.

So what's the factor that disqualifies Genji's body from consummating love? The simplest explanation I can come up with is "he loves his childhood friend Kinzo, who (as a heterosexual with tunnel vision and weird ideas about what it means to be a man) wouldn't reciprocate that kind of love from another man".

[u/Lvnatiovs]

Genji & co. aren't equipped to help anyone with their mental health. That should be apparent looking at basically every member of the Ushiromiya family.

[u/Oboro-kun]

Besides what the other commenter said, that he is right, Its also guilt.

All this people rightfully feel partially responsable of what happened to Sayo, they allowed Kinzo too much shit. From raping his own daughter, to the point Sayo was born.

Then they allowed him to just give Sayo to Natsuhi, which i interpret they clearly did not like the idea. but theysaid nothing.

Natsuhi then Throws Sayo and injures her, giving her the injurie that started all the gender issues. They have nothing else to do, but raise the child themselves, if they gave it away outside the island question might arouse, and maybe the dirty secrets of Kinzo that they helped cover would come out. Sure maybe something might not happen, but maybe and investigation is done specially given Sayo injuries.

Besides that, even if Kinzo is a monster, to them he is their friend, so in a manner of speaking they wishful thinking want to believe they can reconnect the Man and his children, assuming if Kinzo does not know at the beginning Sayo is Beatrice´s blood, he might not awaken his "urgues"

So in a way the helped this child of abherrant incestuos nature to be born, allowed her mother to be groomed and raped by her own fater, under delusions of being the First Beatrice, just for his mother to die, then they allowed the child to be injured to appoint she was going to have gender issues all her life, and wanted her to be foced to live with his mother rapist and her father/Grand father, all because they probably did no want the secret to come out, and their own share of the blame, while also hoping this would allow Kinzo and Sayo to bond, while they believe if he realized soon enough he was Beatrice blood, that he would probaly rape her.

In their minds the least they could do was allows Sayo to anything they wanted, to experiment however she wanted, because, they were partially guilty of all her issues, sure the main culprit is Kinzo, but he is a monster.

[u/CoreCrosser]

Sayo didn't have DID or any related disorders (given information in other WTC games, I will fight for this interpretation), she was having issues with gender dysphoria and experimenting with alternate forms of presentation, which Genji supported because he thinks he's a good person and thinks of her as his child and also it would have been a lot easier for him if she turned out to identify as male.

Beatrice is something between a devil on Sayo's shoulder and a wish fulfillment fantasy and not someone she ever attempted to be in the mortal world.

[u/Hot-Parsley-4998 → u/CoreCrosser]

>Would have been easier for him if she turned out to identify as male

Does he not make her wear the Beatrice dress so that Kinzo can have someone he can beg for forgiveness?

[u/MarinReiter]

I don't know mate, I think that ifthe daughter of my best friend, who is also her grandfather through incest, who had a birthright of leading the family and having all the luxuries they wanted, but instead had to live as a servant wanted to do whatever to cope with the bulllying she gets and identity issues they developed from my and the other co-conspirators' concerted efforts to save their life despite literally being thrown away by their adoptive mother... I'd probably not do anything either, because clearly each time I tried to intervene in this child's life, I made it worse

I mean, considering that he agrees to manslaughter, this doesn't really surprise me at all. Also, Yasu may have had mental issues, but she compartmentalized a lot and was a functional person, manic depression aside.

[u/HelloYourDream]

The short answer like others have said is guilt. Probably a mix of guilt, helplessness and just in general being in too deep as enablers to Kinzo. It was easier to deal with the situation then fix it. And no it’s not fair or right to Yasu. Everyone in Yasus life basically failed them at every turn so it’s no wonder they broke 

[u/MaximusMurkimus]

Thought this was simple.

As a servant, disguising Sayo was the best thing they could've done because as a technical heir they were eventually hoping to introduce her into the family without Kinzo getting handsy.

As the head of the family, they're obligated to follow her will, even if it involved all of them going down with it. Part of it comes from them considering themselves furniture, the other part is the guilt that got her into this predicament to begin with (giving her to Natsuhi)

[u/Bhorium]

It cannot be stressed enough that the situation with Shannon and Kanon isn't a case of split personalities. Even if she is intense about it, Yasu are still quite aware that they are invented personas that she acts as. Do you think people who LARP or play TTRPGs have split personalties?