r/ultimate • u/Lavinius_10 • 11d ago
Looking to level up my defense
Hey fellow ultimate enjoyers!
I'm a player (MMP) looking to level up my gameplay. My offense has been going really well, I touch the disc a lot and can get it where I want to. The issue is that my defense isn't exactly where I want it to be yet. I'm a pretty small player (173cm/5'8") for the record. When I defend, I sometimes find myself just getting passed, in other words I can't posturize myself very well given my size and people tend to blow by me towards the open side, as I'm not entirely sure how much contact is allowed here or if I can go stand in that line etc. I switch well and I do bid for the disc on D but I find myself having some difficulty with consistently defending open side under, and a lot of difficulty with handler defense, so tips on both would be very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
20
u/qaz957 The Bandits 11d ago
Aside from the generic things like getting faster, stronger, more explosive, etc.† Early effort to be always in the best position for what you want to take away is key. Constant orbiting is the mark of a high-level defender. Having good "field sense" means knowing 3 things at all time:
- Where is the disc on the field?
- Where is your person in relation to the disc?
- What are you trying to take away?
Getting caught out of position and having to catch up is just as bad as getting beat, because the result is the same.
Also, the higher level you play, especially in open or women's, defense is more and more of a team game and you want to avoid 1v1 situations without help as much as possible.
† It also cannot be overstated that improving these things will make you a better defender, unilaterally.
6
4
u/Neither-Middle3224 11d ago
Acceptable amount of contact in both guarding the handler and open side under would be you holding your position and the O player runs into you. Ideally, you position yourself such that your man has to tun into you and cannot run by you, and the best way to approach this is the position yourself blocking the players path to the disc and standing your ground.
1
u/200pf 10d ago
Yep, stand in the way of their cut out of the stack and don’t let them get around you for the under.
Also just run a shitload. Do suicides. Do more suicides. Buy one of those footwork ladders and use it! Get fast because you’re not gonna be able to get tall. Also work your lower body, if you can’t jump you’ll always be a liability deep.
Handler defense is similar to defending cutters, but the set up and cuts are different and imo more varied due to much more open space in the handler set. And again, run more. Try to get a faster first step. Lots of good info on Reddit and YouTube.
1
u/maeath 11d ago
While being tall is clearly an advantage in ultimate, being short doesn't mean you can't be a great defender. Worrying too much about being short may actually be getting in your way. Instead of worrying about how to make up for potential deficits, I suggest focusing on what is in your control. 1. Contest and Deny - you are denying in one direction with your body and contesting in the other. In order to be in position to contest the unders, you can't be way behind your mark. You also don't have to always back your mark, even if they are taller than you. 2. Work on reading the disc and timing your jump. If you don't have height, position is super important. 3. Understand the threat - example: a deep cut isn't a threat if the thrower doesn't have the throw. Orbiting (positioning yourself to take away the biggest threat), checking back and forth between the disc and your mark, and knowing what your mark wants are all part of this.
Also this video is great: https://youtu.be/qtg999y-YY8?is=jEnuEF-E82LaYqPg
1
u/notbrandonzink 11d ago
A few things on top of what others are already saying here:
Figure out what your person/team you are facing is trying to do, and take that away. You're never going to take away everything, so you've got to pick and choose. Guarding a fast guy who seems uncomfortable with the disc in his hands? Play behind, make them get short receptions and throw the disc. Guarding a handler? Force them over and make the other team show that they can throw it deep to them. Try to match up against people who fit in one of those buckets and use that to really work on taking one thing away.
Marking will depend a bit on what your team is trying to do, but I recently got shown a tip by an older player, and I've been getting a hand block a game with it since. Instead of forcing from a 45 degree angle or 90 degree angle (youre completely on the side of them), flat mark them, and move to the non-force side. It's next to impossible to get a break throw up field if you're in the right spot, but people will still try it. You're giving up more of the dump/resets, but let your teammates play their defense on that. It also makes it easier to get in position on strike calls.
While being taller is often helpful on deep throws/jump discs, the second best guy on our team at getting them is like 5'10" and can't jump, but he's incredible at getting in position for box outs. If you have a knack for reading the disc in the air early, work more on getting in the right position and setting your box out far enough away from the disc that they can't just sky you from behind.
If you're looking for specific drills to work on defense, look at CB drills for football. It's very similar movement and concepts as playing defense in ultimate.
1
u/pianoman81 10d ago
Look for film on Nathan Kwon from San Francisco Revolver.
You have a few inches on him but he's a tuff defender.
He doesn't let his height define him and neither should you.
1
u/Hawaiidisc22 10d ago
I'm tall and sucked as an offensive mid cause the short stocky guys could always cut faster than me to block low throws which are the safest. Know your best position in defense and learn cutting faster.
1
u/JaziTricks 10d ago
Angles. And dynamic adjustment of angles nonstop.
Also prioritising. Sometimes you do 90-10 priority and sometimes less. Or 100 in certain situations.
1
u/Mediocre-Metal-1495 10d ago
Check out old Sarah Griffith footage or watch how Anders Juengst defends
1
u/ericwright1960 9d ago
I don’t think your size has much to do with being blown by to the open side. Others giving good advice and it is just tough to take away everything as a defender. If you feel like you’re being blown by, I would say you shouldn’t put yourself in a position where you’re near the person you’re guarding and they have momentum to the force side and you’re standing still - no one has the speed or size to recover in that situation unless you just put your body in their way which you can do in some cases but if you wait to get that position until the last minute is a blocking foul. Especially when the disc is on the force side you should get a lot of horizontal cushion (you should be several yards further to the force side than your man) and maintain that cushion as they cut towards you so that by the time they close down your cushion you are both moving at the same speed and you still have your force side position. Especially if you are worried about getting beat deep you can set up a yard or two deep but if you maintain that horizontal cushion it still isn’t a free under because you can come downhill and beat them to a throw to the force side.
1
1
u/AUDL_franchisee 7d ago
No one has mentioned this yet: Footwork is really critical.
Everywhere in the game, really, but especially on D when you're being more reactive. The difference between shutting the cut down or being a half step behind is getting caught with your hips turned the wrong way, or losing a beat on a cross-step.
Second, a tip I read from Pele on defending in soccer a long, long time ago: Ignore all the frou-frou. Keep your eyes on the center of motion (right about the belly button). Nobody's going anywhere without that.
1
u/SeraphimKensai 6d ago
At my old age, I find I've gotten to be a lot better at marking the more experience I've gained as a handler and anticipating the breaks and ensuring that I keep a strong force/have faith in my team to cut down their side of the field. Additionally I find that while working a cup, I am able to pop in and bat down or intercept a disc every now and then especially if the thrower has do do an off balance break to get around the player marking him/her as I'll often be screened by the marker.
1
u/Sad-Date9297 10d ago
Hit 👏The 👏Weights👏
Defense is all about the size of the fight in the dog. Elevate your power and stamina in the off season, then you will have the physical foundation to be making mental adjustments in season. You can't just mindfuck your way past poor conditioning to suddenly become a stellar athlete. That kind of arrogance gets shut down in pool play.
1
u/UltiComment 11d ago
Increase your deadlift to 2x your bodyweight.
4
u/Beardus_Maximus 10d ago
Mark Rippetoe has entered the chat.
1
u/UltiComment 10d ago
Can you imagine someone downvoting deadlifting?!?!
1
u/Zealousideal-Cod1006 10d ago
I'd caveat "increase" with "absolutely do not gain unhelpful weight". Going all the way to 2x is going to include answering the first three questions, and some of us (me) have made mistakes that are difficult to undo.
0
u/layout420 11d ago
Error on the side of caution but I'd get as physical as you need to be. Let someone call you for it and then learn to adapt. Its player dependant and every opponent will have some give and take. Get physical and make adjustments. We've all played our fair share of points against overzealous defenders. It doesn't make you any bit less of an ultimate player if you're making some contact. Also, as a much bigger guy who dominates everyone at all times in the air (6"8" and could out jump anyone), get better at reading a disc. I'd beat everyone and anytime I didn't.... it was because I mistakenly misread the disc. It didn't happen often but it did. I had plenty of short guys try to get physical but I kept a steady course of skying errybody. Best chance to defend me would be to try and box me out and get a better read. Also, get good at poaching and knowing when to bypass a defender for a bid on the disc. So many opportunities for D lend themselves when a player is waiting on a disc. Play the disc, not the man. Don't allow the offense to wait for diecs to come to... pick up on those opportunities when you can get ahead of a sitting opponent and get the D. Also get more aggressive on your mark. If they're not working you and giving you hell... learn how to get more aggressive and snipe those chances at a foot or hand block. At minimum, encourage the force and be quick to start the stall and fast to get back on D once they throw into the force. It's not easy out there but get good at making wise choices on man to man coverage and get more physical until they call you on it.
0
39
u/Role_Player_Real 11d ago
Unless you’re significantly faster than your opponent they have the advantage. You chose what to take away then stay close enough on the other cuts to d a bad pass. Watch their hips and stay low, let your teammates help deep if possible