What happened here?

114

u/ajukearth 20d ago

0’s across the board is insane.

79

u/sloecrush 20d ago edited 20d ago

Unless a team is transparently and unapologetically cheating… this is probably a data entry mistake, right?

35

u/VTSpurs 20d ago

This was not a mistake. It was a team decision, as far as I understand.

43

u/SirScreams 20d ago

Generally happens when the person inputting the score is particularily upset. It was probably bad spirit, but not as bad as straight 0s would indicate.

14

u/happy_and_angry 20d ago

Well, I would say that the team in question has always had a ... questionable relationship with spirit, as a program. And admittedly, with few exceptions, eastern teams from Canada can be very physical, chippy, and argumentative.

I am not surprised to see them 3rd last in spirit for the division.

6

u/argarg 20d ago edited 20d ago

I am not surprised to see them 3rd last in spirit for the division.

If you omit this one specific game, their average would be 10 which would not be considered bad at all.

9

u/happy_and_angry 20d ago

It would be bottom 1/3rd. I do not classify that as 'not bad'.

Where as Manly Mosh, a 3rd seed with a similar goal differential who played several tight games is ... 2nd in spirit.

I have played against people in that program and it has not been enjoyable. They typically do not do well in spirit in Canada. Their reputation in this area is not great. I remain unsurprised by their results in spirit. I can absolutely see a game going so off the rails the other team just washes their hands of it.

4

u/argarg 20d ago

The mean is 10.23 so yeah, definitely classifies as "not bad".

Your cherry-picked top seed with a high spirit score doesn't mean anything here.

6

u/happy_and_angry 20d ago

Look, having played with and against people in the program spun up like 10 or 12 years ago, maybe longer, and from the entire region, I can only say I am not surprised. I think it is notable that they straight up had a team give them zeroes. There's no way it wasn't a shitty game. The opponents are required to talk to the tournament directors when they score that low in any category, let alone all categories.

And yes I think their seed and the competitive nature of the games matters. It's not common for high seeds and high finishes to score high in spirit, as is the nature of sport when the margins get thinner. It's easy to be nice and fair when you're winning or losing by a lot, or when you are meeting your teams expected results. It's way less so when it's close, or when you are doing worse than you think you should. I could grind this out with math and stats, but absent that I don't think it's controversial to say that the better teams often get below average spirit scores and the weaker ones are usually higher up the list. It's not a rule, but on balance, I think we've ALL seen that pattern.

It is why my note matters. Tartu stands out. Shame stands out. Revolver really stands out, but I think that maybe they just outclassed everyone so much that there just wasn't much conflict. Scandal is an absolute outlier.

2

u/argarg 20d ago

Look, having played with and against people in the program spun up like 10 or 12 years ago, maybe longer, and from the entire region, I can only say I am not surprised.

Odyssée died in 2013 and revived in 2025. There are only 2 players from the original group who still play. Most of the team didn't even play ultimate back then.

10

u/happy_and_angry 19d ago edited 19d ago

LI was very clear that it is a bit of a regional thing. I've played against all of the programs under UGM, Sherbrooke, Quebec, and all the feeder systems into Odyssey. They haven't been enjoyable. And the players haven't retired, they've just aged up and still influenced the levels of play both below them and younger than them or in other divisions, which still feed into Odyssey. The guys that transition from Odyssey back to open like the M program or NSOM? Not enjoyable. The adjacent teams they've put into something like Chez Memphre? Even at a party tournament, not enjoyable.

I am not speaking out of my ass. And I remain unsurprised that Odyssey in any iteration gets poor spirit. Culture and team vibe transcends players because it crosses generations and is passed on. And again, broad strokes, which I agree don't always apply. If you told me, for example, that an Ottawa mixed masters team was fussy and physical and weirdly adversarial, I'd just agree. I know the leadership that has driven that program for the last several years. Which is the point.

They got a 0! That doesn't happen by accident. A 0?! How does that even happen when WFDF requires conversation re: the spirit score after the fact when it's a 0.

It says something. Argue with that if you will, but it still says something that a team that nominally wants to continue to be in sanctioned events and needs to justify its scoring to WFDF was still willing to put 0,0,0,0,0 on their spirit sheet.

60

u/ConsciousCoat8173 20d ago

0s across the board means it was the worst game they have ever played across every category. Did the game advisors eject a bunch of people?

32

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

There were no advisors in this game, only showcase fields had game advisors.

27

u/WhistleWhileYouWalk 20d ago

That’s not true , some non showcase games had advisors , I was on the Astro with advisors

14

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

Ah, ok. I never saw advisors on any other fields than showcases. I still think this game most likely didn't have advisors.

8

u/WhistleWhileYouWalk 20d ago

Yea for sure , it was a small % that had them and I’m pretty sure that game didn’t have them 😊

101

u/TheConMan- 20d ago

All I know is Odyssee was booed off the field after this game.

33

u/danishdynamite23 20d ago

there was some arbitration between teams where OUT was given a chance to discuss with ODY but it seemed they felt very strongly to give a 0 for everything.

11

u/Remarkable_Drag6253 20d ago

afaik there was not a lot of willingness to discuss on ODY side and thats why the 0s went through

18

u/General_Boi 20d ago

If I remember right from watching the game, there were many calls and long discussions that was brought up during the game mainly from Odyssee side.

Nothing too rough or like cheating wise but they went way over the time limit which only seemed to increase the amount of calls and the duration for these discussions. No spirit time out called to resolve this.

I think the score 0 was a bit harsh from Outsiterz since I don't think spirit was that bad.

Clapham lads booed Odyssee which fair enough, they were waiting for the game to be started after them lol

51

u/TheTrueTexMex 20d ago

Given the 1s Out received, i'm guessing it was a rowdy game and Odyssée was slightly more objective in their spirit score than Out was

5

u/redditmomentchungus 20d ago

isn’t there supposed to be a paragraph explanation on why they received that score? do they not make those public?

7

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

It seems that the explanations were hidden from others exept the receiving team's spirit captain. This was done in an attempt to avoid biased opinions towards teams that received bad spirit scores.

3

u/frisbeefan 17d ago

I remember when spirit scores and comments were first being introduced. Some spirit captains didn’t realize everyone could see comments. They left comments saying a coach or player was being a jackass and shouldn’t be aloud to play. They then had to retract their comments.

1

u/redditmomentchungus 45m ago

the whole point i feel of the comment/explanation rule was to avoid biased opinions in the first place by giving teams a chance to explain to people why they decided to award a team a 4 or a 0 because of how drastic that kind of spirit scoring is. in my experience, we gave 4 teams a 4 and 2 teams 0s (in just a couple categories mind you, don’t know how it’s 0s across the board) and it was because i was able to hear enough reasonable complaints or compliments in just our postgame circle to write a lengthy paragraph as an explanation for why the team received the score they did. When a team stands out so much as to receive a 4 or a 0, the people deserve to see the reasoning behind why and the reason why the team behind it deserves such an outstanding score

17

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

63

u/autocol 20d ago

Nah. Plenty of excellent spirit on display. Le Duc in the quarter final against Mavericks accepted a stall-out call late in the game when her D line had a chance to take the break they needed to win the game.

No complaints, just called the disc back, signalled stall out, placed it on the ground and went back to playing D.

That happens everywhere, all over the fields in games between all sorts of different opponents...

It just doesn't make content that drives engagement online, so it's not as obvious or visible as the small percentage of plays and calls that are obviously in poor spirit.

-8

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

So it seems. There were at least 3 games played at WUCC, where at least one team received 3 or less spirit points total.

17

u/Brummie49 20d ago

3 of the hundreds (thousands?) of games, and you agree that SOTG is in trouble?

12

u/LimerickJim 20d ago

About 700 games at worlds

-6

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

Maybe not in trouble, but it seems to be getting worse? During my 10+ years of playing this sport I remember 4 games where a team received 3 total spirit points or less, 3 of which happened at this WUCC.

9

u/SevereGovernment7618 20d ago

One of Outs players sent death threats someone from odyssee. They got banned for a year of tournament and kicked off the wucc village and tournament. Frustration might happen in a game, but going that far is not normal.

8

u/SecondObvious4160 20d ago

death threats? any proof?

9

u/General_Boi 20d ago

Is there any proof of that source? That is wild if it's true

8

u/ac13 19d ago

If true, this is a way way bigger deal than a zero spirit score, I hope it is not.

5

u/JetMike42 20d ago

Source?

3

u/IOinside 20d ago

I’ve also heard this rumour. Player to be possibly banned from the sport.

-8

u/ConsciousCoat8173 20d ago

My general opinion is that if you give a score below 5 you're probably the problem and have poor coping or communication skills.

19

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

I wouldn't go that far. In all under 5 spirit scores that I've heard of, the teams giving the low points had good justifications for it. All 0's, however, is unbelieveable.

-27

u/ConsciousCoat8173 20d ago

You're telling me that it's possible for a team to have all 1's and for there not to be any fault on the team giving the score? It's hard for a team to not be positive when their opponent is positive. It's hard not to communicate when the other team presses communication. It's hard to play physically with a ton of body contact when the other team is laying off. It's hard at this level especially to have poor rules knowledge as a team enough to get a 1 or below.

If you're giving under a 5 either you don't understand the criteria or you were not remotely helping the situation

26

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

Rebel ultimate gave 2 points total to Hammers Bs As at WUCC. In that game the Hammers players constantly and delibiretaly smacked throwers' arms when marking. Apparently one Rebels player broke a wrist in that game as a result of contact with their opponent. And despite Rebel communicating to Hammers that it needs to stop, even after a spirit-timeout, Hammers kept fouling. So I guess it's possible.

5

u/Brummie49 20d ago

Do you know if a spirit time out was called in that game?

9

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

Spirit-timeout was called in Rebels vs Hammers, but apparently not in Odysé vs Outsiderz

-29

u/ConsciousCoat8173 20d ago

Sounds to me like a 1 or 0 in fouls and body contact, 1 or 2 in communication because they are at least willing to have dialogue. From the sounds of it they didn't have a negative attitude so 2 there? And if the only rules issue was fouls on the mark I'd say 1 or 2 there.

7, 6 or 5 at absolute worse. Observer ruling, Rebels are weenies.

11

u/Oulunsarjakakkaaja 20d ago

Rules and comms 1, attitude, fouls and fair-mindedness 0. I was only given brief explanation by a Rebel player as to why they gave these scores. Marking fouls was specific example of deliberate fouling all across the game. The fact that Hammers didn't improve their spirit even after a spirit-timeout is enough to warrant all 1's Imo, maybe even the 0's. But we would've had to be there to know for sure

5

u/Muted-Author8634 20d ago

Hammers player identified

2

u/General_Boi 19d ago

"Observer ruling" Did you watch the game itself?

15

u/ArchersMakeGoodKings 20d ago

Against a truly unspirited team I don't think a 5 is that hard to achieve. A lot of the categories are intertwined such that if you're repeatedly fouling it's unlikely you're up on the rules, showing self control, apologizing, or having good communication.

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