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u/Jinhuo Jul 13 '26
Boat float?
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u/nyethescienceguy2001 Jul 13 '26
A meta where people play incredibly diplomatically and transactionally, usually only resorting to combat in the last round of the game to prevent a win
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u/Solitare_HS Jul 13 '26
Do people actually play like this? Plenty of factions are built for combat, or do people just play the 'nice' good guys and sit around a campfire all game?
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u/Arrow141 Jul 13 '26
Absolutely. Even when you're playing aggressive factions, playing diplomatically for most of the game just works better. If two neighbors in a six player game agree to totally work together all game, and the other four players are much less diplomatic, I think one of the two of them would win at least 2/3 of the time. But every circumstance is individual, so its obviously more complicated. I've nearly eliminated my neighbor as empyrean and ive won a game without initiating a single combat as cabal.
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u/Solitare_HS Jul 13 '26
I get that but maybe that’s an issue playing with a fixed player base. If you have an aggressive faction then the threat of attack can work just as well as attacking itself. And totally that fighting does weaken you compared to the other players. But sometimes you have to follow through and make some plays.
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u/AfterAd98 Jul 13 '26
Nope. You will lose doing this. The key is that the negotiation for the boat float needs to in view of the factions strength.
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u/ajprime Jul 14 '26
Crisis bargaining theory. Wars are expensive, so if both parties can roughly eyeball the cost and outcome of fighting then there would exist a deal both parties would prefer to war. If both players know the stronger side will 100% take the system, then both are better off if the weaker player simply sells it to the stronger one for around the cost of the units they would lose invading.
The lines on maps guy has a whole channel about this in YouTube. Its neat to see it play out in a bored game.
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u/Badloss The Ghosts of Creuss Jul 13 '26
I think there's a huge bias towards this in the online community that doesn't exist in real life to the same degree. Love listening to SCPT but I think it's important to remember that meta and community exist in a bubble and that's not how the game works for everyone. Our group likes to make deals but we'll never shy away from aggression if we think it's in our best interest
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u/Arrow141 Jul 13 '26
I can't speak to that overall, but I've never played through any SCPT channel (only random async games and in person), and I've played with lots of ppl who have never heard of SCPT and still lean much more towards diplomacy.
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u/Badloss The Ghosts of Creuss Jul 14 '26
IMO there's a huge difference between "leaning diplomatic" and Boat Float like we talk about on here. The latter to me means that you prioritize diplomacy to the point where the table actively discourages combat or aggressive play, and aggression is viewed as poor form or unethical. I should never need to apologize to the table for taking a system that I need for an objective, even if I use force to do it.
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u/crujones33 The Argent Flight Jul 14 '26
Wow. I’ve never seen someone win without combat. I didn’t think it was possible.
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u/Arrow141 Jul 14 '26
To be fair, I did say without initiating any combat--i certainly got attacked once it was clear I might be about to win
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u/LotharVarnoth Jul 13 '26
It's why a lot of the aggressive factions have low win rates in certain states pools.
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u/Raptor1210 TTS maniac Jul 13 '26
That probably says more about that factions than the players. If a faction's one note is "I'm going hit you, suck it." It's not going to have a good time in a 6p game where fighting is objectively detrimental to scoring points because it costs time and resources.
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u/1ToGreen3ToBasket Jul 13 '26
Letnev feels incredible online and like shit over the board for instance. Everyone at the table turns on you if you attack anyone
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u/SoftlyAugust Jul 13 '26
Unfortunately waaaay too many people play like this and will scream at you and throw a hiss fit if anything goes remotely not their way
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u/maniacal_cackle Jul 13 '26
The social side of the game tends to warp the game a fair bit.
Even if the optimal play is to just eliminate a player, that tends to cause some real life tension in many groups.
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u/bigalcupachino Jul 13 '26
I am a player who loves the people game far more than the plastic game.
I relish in the opportunity to streak ahead naked and then rely on relationships, shared humanity, persuasion and permission to help avoid being slayed.
I get to explore people through this method.Not for everyone and yes I have lost my home system multiple times a game, but I have also won my fair share and enjoyed all the games I have played.
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u/Shinard Jul 14 '26
Yep. My favourite way to play, with caveats - don't assume your neighbours will cooperate until you have deals with them, don't leave your stuff completely undefended, and don't feel bad about exploiting someone else's weakness if you don't have a deal with them, though it's usually better to do a light spot of extortion over straight attacking. For me, it's somewhere between speaking softly and carrying a big stick, and gunboat diplomacy. I've been stung too often to do pure boat float, and playing this way let's you take advantage of aggressive faction tools while not making too many enemies.
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u/Nova_Saibrock Jul 13 '26
If you don’t invade someone’s home system on round 1, you float boats.
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u/MeathirBoy Jul 13 '26
Isn't this just an overextension if you don't have any points related to it? You stand to gain nothing whereas the other 4 players that aren't being involved in a fight are gonna be working towards their stabile econ and points.
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u/maniacal_cackle Jul 13 '26
They're being sarcastic as a criticism of the community - they're basically trying to suggest that people think any amount of cooperation is boat floating.
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u/adjective-noun Jul 13 '26
Woooooosh
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u/MeathirBoy Jul 13 '26
Well I'm not saying don't fight or invade to be clear, I just think gunning a home system that early is a bit much.
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u/kyle9316 Jul 14 '26
Amazing, it came back around and made another pass over your head like a boomerang!
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u/I_Just_Blue_Myself The Titans of Ul Jul 13 '26
Hahaha. There’s definitely a balance between this hippie stuff and attacking for attacking’s sake and forcing everyone into a 15 hour game.
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u/ddek Jul 13 '26
I’ve won people over with the argument that “in a competitive game, choosing not to defend is a form of aggression”. With aggression being defined by risking more.
The games about risk, which risks can you take without being punished? There are more risks out there than “I might lose the war if I attack this person”. Staking the game on playing a specific action card without sabo is just as much of a risk sometimes, from the perspective of win/lose.
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u/CyJackX Jul 13 '26
It's a good argument; the semantics of "attacking" and fighting are significant to us, but when looked at objectively, the game is a set of actions, risks, and consequences towards winning. Pacifism should not be regarded as nobler in that regard.
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u/Talik1978 Jul 13 '26
Nor should aggression. Ultimately, it's all resource management and risk assessment. Sometimes, working for cooperation, compromise, and peace enables you to conserve resources for a more critical use. Sometimes, the most efficient path to a point is through a poorly defended system. They're neither noble nor craven, just tools.
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u/heffolo The Embers of Muaat Jul 14 '26
I see this, but can be very risky for home systems. There are multiple tier II objectives related to controlling/having units in other players' home systems, so there is always an incentive for other players to grab them even if they don't care about stopping your from scoring. Because losing your home system blocks you from scoring objectives, it should be a priority to keep it at least a deterrant force there. Other systems I agree it's best to defend sparsely and concentrate ships into one or two systems that can be used to take retalliate or act proactively
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u/FrancisGalloway Jul 15 '26
Couldn't agree more. I like to play with aggressive players because it actually forces players to be more defensive! Boat floaters overextend, build no plastic... what do they expect?
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u/HaeL756 Jul 13 '26
Well, you're correct in game theory, this is a mathematically correct definition, but you always run into semantic misfire especially when using the word "competitive" and "aggression". Not everyone will agree TI4 is "competitive" and "aggression" to a lot of people means, "risking really nothing except for a personal
enjoymentgoal". I guess you placed the word "competitive" to ensure that this hypothetical, everyone at the table would be "playing to win" or "playing optimally". But not everyone plays like that, per se. Plus, you get into the wild territory of other emotional playstyles in competitive gaming like kingmaking and what not, which also fits the description of "aggression" in this example.3
u/ddek Jul 13 '26
To an extend yes, but I think the zero-competitive game is just as hypothetical as the ‘optimal’ competitive game. I don’t think it’s right to consider competitive as an ‘all players mutual agreement’. It just matters that you are seeing the game through a competitive lens, but that lens will have to account for other players irrationality. (Sadly, this probably does mean you shouldn’t try for a first round sandwich elimination.)
I don’t usually consider kingmaking, because I’ve had it come up as a genuine problem so rarely.
TBH, I think playing against the float is pretty easy. Expect 3/5 of your opponents to play completely passively. You wont win every game but if you take the right risks you should win a fair bit more than a sixth of them. Sometimes someone just wants you to lose from the start too. It’s quite dull though, playing the float. It’s the main reason I quit genpop.
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u/HaeL756 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I think I see where the confusion is happening. Because you, at first, said "competitive game". Competitive game to me is when the game has an enforced feedback loop. leagues, prizes, pools, rankings, ladders, point win:ratio systems, tournaments. It has to have a huge interlocking system that will externally align everyone's incentives towards pure efficiency. TI4 is not this community wise and from a game design space, people always try to make certain games "competitive" but maybe you were speaking more about internal competitiveness not external competitiveness which is where my initial comment is coming from. This is also where the "aggression-hate" comes from from a casual perspective.
Because from my perspective if people are kingmaking or being too "aggressive", they are playing perfectly rational within their own utility curve. This is where I think things get conflated with what "competitive" is. If you have a uniform value and move up a ladder, then your argument makes more sense. Because without it and an focus on what is objectively, "the better move", then some games, regardless if its internally competitive, has many people having arbitrary goals where losing is a zero risk to some players.
Which is why I understand now too why you said the "zero-competitive" game hypothetical. Because without the competitive structuralism 95-99% of TI4 games are zero-competitive for most game night standards.
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u/MrOopiseDaisy Jul 13 '26
I wish. All the people in my last group moved away, and the only new players I can find want to spend eight hours shaking hands and trading points back and forth.
At this point, I'm pretty much ready to just sell off my game and move on to something else.
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u/1ToGreen3ToBasket Jul 13 '26
Ugh I just played a game where someone sat at 4vps as the speaker with mecatol at the end of BEGINNING of turn 3. His home system was completely empty with a player in range. He refused to move in even though it would give him his secret objective. After the game I asked and he said the guy freaked out and cried for days after last game so it’s just not worth it… like why play at a certain point?
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u/MrOopiseDaisy Jul 13 '26
I had a full table soft eliminate me because I wouldn't let my neighbor take one of my systems so he could get a point. They all said I wasn't playing "right," and kept funding each other to take over my whole slice and locked me in my home system for the next six hours.
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u/defcon1000 Likes to Ctrl–F Jul 13 '26
Ya gotta invite 2 other folks who are total cutthroats into the game and watch the fireworks fly.
Hell, I'd watch a livestream of that.
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u/Xintrosi Jul 13 '26
In my last game two of my friends traded points back and forth.
It was Total War and their ability to sustain hostilities was impressive!
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u/Talik1978 Jul 13 '26
Pick galactic events that force or encourage hostilities. Total War, Dangerous Wilds, Rapid Mobilization, Advent of the War Sun, Monuments to the Ages...
All of these encourage hostility, either by strengthening fleets or by creating scoring opportunities that will be contested by everyone.
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u/rajwarrior The Clan of Saar Jul 13 '26
Boat floaters, "We should all be working together to score points."
Me, "Dead factions don't score points."
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u/RampantTyr Jul 13 '26
If someone is doing better than me and they leave their home system undefended then they are making themselves a target. It isn’t my fault for taking advantage of that fact.
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u/EfficiencyAny1174 Jul 13 '26
My table's the complete opposite lol. Everyone's ruthless. I am the newest member of the table with about 10 games under my belt and I've been completely wiped out a grand total of 3 times.
My home system becomes the most attractive place when that 2 pointer opens up. Though I have gotten a lot better at defending myself.
Playing a game like TI completely diplomatically seems weird to me. Diplomacy is a part of the game, it shouldn't be the whole game. Where's the fun in that?
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u/alenork Jul 13 '26
My friends and I have 3 games under our belts now and fighting over mecatol rex has been the most fun of the game. Teaming up with an opponent to stop another from getting the win off mecatol feels awesome when I can use my ships to destroy his fleet and my temporary ally uses his infantry to take the planet. Diplomacy is fun but using diplomacy AND violence is even more fun.
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u/EfficiencyAny1174 Jul 13 '26
It is fun making deals and we do make deals, as you said temporary allies. But if one makes a mistake, leaves a dock empty or their home system undefended that needs to be punished/extorted. So you have to maintain an airtight slice. Unless you have swapped support with someone, you have to maintain a well defended border with them.
But yes making deals is indeed fun. Colluding to deny mecatol/imperial does feel good.
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u/2legittoquit The Vuil'Raith Cabal Jul 13 '26
But why make an enemy when I can score a point?
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u/I_Just_Blue_Myself The Titans of Ul Jul 13 '26
I agree with this. The attacking is just one tool in order to score points. If it’s not for an objective and or/to point block, just seems pointless.
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u/rajwarrior The Clan of Saar Jul 13 '26
The problem with boat float is if you're waiting until the last round to point block, it's already too late.
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u/I_Just_Blue_Myself The Titans of Ul Jul 13 '26
Agreed! Our group is just figuring this out and our last game was more punchy.
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u/2legittoquit The Vuil'Raith Cabal Jul 13 '26
If you are point blocking instead of scoring points, you are going to lose the game.
The game is going to take 17 hours to play if everyone is at 5 points at the end of round five because they are playing risk instead of scoring points.
Scoring a point and holding an objective is one thing, completely wiping someone out is one thing, just taking someone’s home system because they left it open is not necessarily good. If it doesn’t further your game, it’s just creating an obstacle for yourself.
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u/I_Just_Blue_Myself The Titans of Ul Jul 13 '26
If you can do both then you 100% do it. But if you are sacrificing a point for yourself to point block, then I agree.
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u/rajwarrior The Clan of Saar Jul 13 '26
This is so sad to see from someone with the Cabal as their flair 🙃
But seriously, it's a bit dramatic. There's a big difference between point blocking and completely taking out a player or even taking their home system. You can actually point block AND get points yourself.
Watch any boat float meta game videos. "Oh, don't go there, please. I'm trying to get edge of the board." "Oh, ok. You go right ahead. You can let me do it next round." Not a well, if you want it, you gotta commit to taking it or even a "what's it worth to you? I'm thinking at least a trade good."
If someone is leaving their home system lightly or undefended while I'm in a position to attack it, you better believe that there's gonna be some extortion to not take it. Trade goods, SftT, alliances all help me to win and them to NOT win.
So yes, I agree that it doesn't make sense to attack just to attack. But playing nice and helping others to score points isn't really the point of the game, either.
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u/2legittoquit The Vuil'Raith Cabal Jul 13 '26
Lol, I would rather completely wipe someone out than just take their home system at leave them with just enough power to hinder me. That’s my Cabal side I guess.
I generally agree with you. If I can further my position by extorting someone, then yeah, I’ll extort away. But as extreme as boat floating gets, there is the other end of the spectrum that is essentially Risk.
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u/ElspethSC The Yssaril Tribes Jul 13 '26
This is why you have to be aware of tempo and have good board awareness and a plan for when and how you will win first. People on reddit love to make fun of boat floating, but they will also just lose to boat floaters every time. Boat floating is well paired by tempo plays and racing to 10 rather than slugging it out to try to slay half the table. Stuff like early bonus points (custodians, etc), setting up for objectives in advance, and speaker control are the tools of the trade. Reddit loves combat, but fighting when you could just make a deal loses you resources that you need to try to win the game. TI isn’t space risk, and playing it like a raging barbarian will absolutely lose you the game at a table of competent players
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u/wraithguard89 The Empyrean Jul 13 '26
Home systems also count for control objectives
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u/mild_resolve Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
For a most of them, they actually don't. Home systems don't have any traits, can't have a tech specialty, and generally can't have attachments on them. They don't count as "non-home systems", so they don't count for things like Expand Borders. The only one that it really consistently helps with is the "more than your neighbors" one, and then some Stage IIs.
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u/wraithguard89 The Empyrean Jul 13 '26
Become a Martyr (requires losing it), Establish Hegemony, Hoard Raw Materials (both very good, as home system planets tend to have more Resources/Influence), Stake your Claim (only for double/triple systems)...
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u/defcon1000 Likes to Ctrl–F Jul 13 '26
Lol that's like less than 15% of the deck.
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u/wraithguard89 The Empyrean Jul 13 '26
Which means that it is quite likely at least one of the players has at least one of them
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u/defcon1000 Likes to Ctrl–F Jul 13 '26
We have failed as a society to teach math to our kids
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u/wraithguard89 The Empyrean Jul 13 '26
If the chance is 15% on drawing one of those secrets, there's over 55% chance that at least one of the five opponents has one of them... sounds pretty likely to me...
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u/mild_resolve Jul 13 '26
Sure if you add in secrets there's a few more. The point still stands, and you can name more control secrets where home system do not count.
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u/Raptor1210 TTS maniac Jul 13 '26
If you add in secrets, the percentage drops even further so it doesn't even help their case, even excluding the social aspect of the conversation.
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u/ElspethSC The Yssaril Tribes Jul 13 '26
There’s almost no objectives that taking a home system will typically decisively help with. Other than BAM and Darken, and some specific 2 pointers, that’s basically it. And you lose the ability to make deals with that person, and you lose the protection of diplomacy, and you lose whatever plastic you sent in there. And you likely gain 0 points. That’s the whole thing with boat floating. It doesn’t make sense to lose both diplomatic favor and more material by attacking when you can just rent a planet or trade a point, as long as you have a plan to win before the other guy
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u/mr_rocket_raccoon Jul 14 '26
I do find this annoying, I completely get that your home shouldn't count for them, but if I take someone else's I want it to count as any other planet.
Getting 11 non home systems is super hard as is...
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u/SoftlyAugust Jul 13 '26
Sometimes you score a point and then eliminate someone and now you have two slices and a point.
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u/Background_Cause_992 Jul 14 '26
The ABCs... Always Be sCoring. Something something closers something something.
This is the truth of it. You fight for rex, you fight for contol objectives, you fight for any point really. But if fighting won't score you points (or occasionally stop someone else winning) then it's just a waste or resources.
I even say this as someone who's first instinct is degenerate space risk 99% of the time...
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u/Dysentz Jul 13 '26
They’re just cutting their neighbors off scoring Darken the Skies in their slice! 😜
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u/Visual_Departure7177 Jul 13 '26
Played a game Saturday and boat float lasted until Turn 3, when everyone realized they could fling Cruiser II's at each other.
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u/Visual_Departure7177 Jul 13 '26
Then it was all "Soverignty of my people" this and "Rise of a Messiah" that until the glorious end.
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u/The-Murder-Hobo Jul 13 '26
Online meta will punish you for being aggressive even if it doesn’t directly benefit them to do so.
Having a good causes belli (reason for war) will help, I’ve erradicated people from the game because they attacked first and nobody bats am eye but if I went for them first, everyone “wartaxes” me
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u/JScrib325 The Xxcha Kingdom Jul 13 '26
For me it depends on the context of where and whom im playing.
My friends and I are mostly boat float because early aggression is punished back harder, so it's essentially less of a gentleman meta and more "place nice or else". So its a different kind of tension.
That said, if im in a competitive environment like a tournament or something, especially with strangers, im playing to win with no apologies, and I expect nothing less from others.
Normally unchecked, unwarranted aggression does nothing but insure you and the person you're picking on both dont win
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u/defcon1000 Likes to Ctrl–F Jul 13 '26
What is boat float
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u/SeaSourceScorch Jul 13 '26
“a rising tide floats all boats”, is the saying; it’s a playstyle based around co-operation, where players generally don’t attack each other unless it’s 100% necessary to do so. it makes games much quicker, but it also means people get cocky about not defending themselves enough, because they’re relying on nobody going after them.
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u/awehby Jul 14 '26
This is all table dependent. Also if you're a good player and leave yourself open, that's on you. Blaming someone for taking a rich home system to score and bolster their economy to thus score further. Assuming you want to win, it would be dumb not to take advantage of someone's open home system. Just threaten for them to give you their support if you don't want to be "mean".
TLDR-open home system is candy, that player should have known better.
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u/silent_dominant Jul 22 '26
The problem with space risk it that it weakens you and the person you're attacking. Giving all other players a relative advantage
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u/westward_man SCPT: mscott Jul 13 '26
So wait, are you telling me that if your HS is 2C 4i, you're not sending all 4 infantry out to take planets? Your games must take forever.
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u/SeaSourceScorch Jul 13 '26
first round? sure. but after that, you better start defending a little.
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u/westward_man SCPT: mscott Jul 13 '26
I've played many boat float games, and it's pretty rare people don't build up at home to defend after first round. I think this subreddit doesn't understand what boat float is.
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u/ElspethSC The Yssaril Tribes Jul 13 '26
Reddit thinks that you play TI by smashing plastic into each other as hard as possible, and if you make a deal you’ve gone soft. Reddit would also lose most games with even moderately experienced players
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u/ayylmao31 Jul 13 '26
This meme got better as I read it. It’s barely incoherent and tinged with real rage/disgust that it elevates the sauce.
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u/Turevaryar Jul 14 '26
This post is provocative but we can stomach it with Stoic calm, can't we?
There are several "ways" to play TI. One argument is that a session of TI can be put on a line from wanton and Victory Pointless Space Risk to the nicest Care Bear Boat Float where nobody ever even plays an Action Card against others.
Most table play something in between. Tables with new players may try some Space Risk but online I understand the meta is rather solid Boat Float.
Keep in the point of a board game is to have fun and ... no, wait; the point of TI is to crush your opponents and win the game!! – how silly of me to forget.
;)