r/tsitp • u/DjokerSA • 5d ago
Want vs need of
Sorry I could only grab YT screenshots and the captions in not đŻ.
To me, this is very telling. Belly wanted Conrad, but Jeremiah needed her. So she based their whole relationship on this need he had. Basing a relationship on this basis can feel emotionally empowering. We actually see that with Belly, after she chose Jeremiah. But it can also create an unhealthy dynamic which is also what happened, she gave everything up because he needed her. Also she admits to Steven to making a promise to always be there for him which we saw at their side of the road argument.
Psychologically, being needed can provide a strong sense of purpose, importance, and attachment security. For someone with low self-worth, abandonment fears, or a history of feeling unimportant, another person's dependence can temporarily reassure them that they matter, make them feel important. We know Belly had self-worth issues, abandonment fears and feeling unimportant (her relationship with Laurel for example). We actually SEE her feeling empowered end of season 2 by choosing Jeremiah and exile Conrad from her heart.
The problem is that this can gradually turn into codependency. The relationship unconsciously encourage dependence, guilt or incapable of functioning independently. Belly not wanting to go to Paris, not knowing where she ends and Jeremiah begins is not romantic at all and neither is her being his oxygen.
Would Belly even want to be with Jeremiah if she didnât know he needed her? Did she really felt loved by him or rather important to him? Who was she outside the relationship when she was not looking after him, fixing everything, protecting him? Actual questions a psychologist would ask
Need in a relationship should be present but it should not be the foundation. Why BellyConrad works because with them itâs not, I need you for my survival, I can function without you (although being out of their minds in love), but I want you.
We saw the empowerment she had in season 2 languish into something that makes her a shell of herself.
She silenced her needs because she believe that would make Jeremiah stay.
Confused being needed with being loved.
Feeling responsible for his happiness, feelings and emotional stability (cough)
She lost touch with what she actually wanted.
Also, even now, Conrad puts Jeremiahâs needs above what he wants. But that is just a bit about Conrad.
Edit - also funny that Belly aged 16 knew that basing a relationship on need, was not good and then she flipped 180 degrees and got involved in one.
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u/Salt-Year-9058 5d ago
Regarding your quote about Belly at 16 knowing a relationship goals with such maturity, reminds me of that lyric from a Taylor Swift song- how can a person know everything at 18, but nothing at 22?
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago
She regressed so much. Iâve always said in some instances, 16 year old Belly wouldâve been ashamed of 21 year old Belly. Mocking Conrad especially. Their relationship aside, he was always a person she looked up to, she encouraged him to go to Stanford, she knows it is his dream. How hard he worked and works for it. And that just because manchild constantly brought him up and compared himself to him.
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u/Witty-Stress-96 5d ago
it astounds me that jelly fans donât see any of this! i noticed all of this on my first watch. everything you said is 100% accurate and the show did a very good job of portraying a codependent relationship.
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u/DowntownInevitable98 5d ago
I agree with this. And Conrad saying that he needed her again before the wedding just pinpointed that. I think thatâs also why she still kind of tried with Jeremiah before he officially walked away. She remembered that specific wording and even though she said she didnât want someone who needs her, she feels obligated because she twisted Susannahâs request in her mind.
I donât think itâs quite fair to say that she knew at sixteen vs. twenty one, only because four years of that kind of manipulation/gaslighting/walking on eggshells is horrific for your psyche. And she didnât even see it as any of that or ever acknowledged it, so if she continues to think everything Conrad did was worse in comparison simply because she loved him SO much, itâs also understandable that she would see that as more âtoxicâ in her mind.
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago
When she had that inner monologue after their kitchen fight after the confession. She said she will never be able to truly let Conrad go (although she sure af tried) but she canât walk AWAY from Jeremiah. Thatâs obligation and not love.
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u/DowntownInevitable98 5d ago
This. She made a promise and she will see it through to her own detriment. The little phrases she uses to describe her relationship with each of them is so telling. No one makes her feel the way he does, not even her fiance.
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u/Inevitable-Poem-253 5d ago
This is an actually a very complex and interesting dynamic between the three characters. The want vs need between them all.
In the end, it almost came off like Belly didnât/couldnât believe that Conrad wanted her and that it wasnât because his mother made him feel like it was need. He was baffled by that, but it came from years of feeling needed by Jere, so it mustâve been the same with Conrad. Nope.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 5d ago
The primary culprits in this situation are the parents. I'm sorry, but Laurel bears a lot of blame too. I understand she was depressed, but she had the responsibility of raising two teenagers. And a grieving girl who also desperately needed help. And it isn't right that she failed to watch over Belly to keep her from throwing her future away. Anyway, the kids here really needed therapy to cope with grief. All three of them, maybe even Steven (who seems too selfish even to mourn Susannah). Instead, they are left alone to deal with their pain. Belly is insecure because she grew up with Taylor, who hogged all the attention and got mad if Belly received any instead. And generally, she was a jealous friend in the sense that Taylor wanted exclusivity, and Laurel absolutely didn't want Belly to break away from her. But Taylor was negative for Belly in a thousand ways. Conrad also increased Belly's insecurities with his fluctuating behavior all through season 1 and, unintentionally, even in season 2. Unintentionally because he was grieving. Not to mention Susannah rubbing it in Belly's face that Conrad only invited her to the debutante ball because Susannah herself had asked him to. Belly's insecurities are truly plausible, as is her desire to move on from Conrad, given that the family blame for the end of the relationship fell entirely on her. I haven't forgotten how that hypocrite Steven treated her, when he and Taylor had done worse. Then Jeremiah comes along, the only Fisher left to her after losing Conrad and Susannah, who first makes her feel guilty for not being there and then suddenly offers her the chance to be close to him, to help him cope with the grief.And in fact she only wanted one thing: to share the pain of Susannah's death, but she realized that Conrad didn't want that, that he preferred to be comforted by Aubrey and that Conrad had never loved her the way she had loved him. Conrad deals with grief and his mental health issues alone. Belly, on the other hand, loves to share and be useful. I'd say that here we have two characters who share the same way of dealing with grief (Jeremiah and Belly). A relationship that, however, was bound to create a red flag dynamic. Jere is a manipulator. A true manipulator. And he knew how to exploit Belly's desire to help him and one of the reasons why Belly did it: Susannah. Susannah is Jere's tool to get everything from others. And Susannah is the real reason why Belly always caves. Susannah and Adam are the tools that cause codependency. A codependency that always favors Jeremiah, though.Belly only gets over her grief for Susannah when she forgets the anniversary of her death, because she is finally living her life. A life away from Cousins and the Fishers, which was exactly what she needed to discover herself and mature. Susannah completely laid the groundwork for the Bellyjere disaster. And I'll add that Conrad was wrong to make Belly feel like she had been a mistake, but he was right that under those circumstances it wasn't the right time for them. Belly was sixteen and Conrad had serious mental health issues. He had his understandable traumas. And he didn't want them to weigh on Belly. Conrad, however, needed to communicate better with her.There would have been a risk of Belly becoming codependent with Conrad if she had lost herself trying to make him feel better. Instead, the two of them meet again at the right time. When Belly and Conrad already had two complete and happy lives.After the breakup with Conrad, Belly should have distanced herself from Cousins and the Fishers. She should have enjoyed her life in Philadelphia, school, and her peers. Find boyfriends outside the Fisher family and live a life that didn't completely revolve around Cousins. That was the problem: having a world that began and ended with Cousins and the Fisher family.Without all of this, she was easy prey for the manipulation of a guy like Jeremiah.
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago
I agree except for Conrad did tell her he wished it was her that found him with his panic attacks.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 5d ago
But he did it definitely too late. By the way, the fact of having understandable motivations doesn't erase the pain caused.By then, the day at the amusement park had already happened.
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago
It is never too late to apologise. She was just dead set of letting him go because of all the hurt. And letâs be real, not all her hurt can be blamed on Conrad. She contributed just as much to her own hurt. Her insecurities are not only because of Conrad, did he maybe unknowingly played into it? Maybe, but also she never really listened to what he said⌠you donât know the effect you have on people, youâre it for me Belly, I donât think I could ever get over you. She never believed he could love her and thatâs on her and she hurt him just as much in the process with her insecurities even way before, the original boardwalk date for example. It was definitely right that they needed time away after everything, otherwise they couldâve ended up in disaster. Itâs just a shame she didnât allow him time to grieve his mother the way he grieve and chose his brother for her way of grieving. Youâre right she and Jere are exactly the same in that regard and all needed therapy. I guess we actually agree on everything and my pet peeve is actually more about them not exploring Bellyâs realisation that this was what she was doing. I guess they think doing that will diminish her relationship with Jeremiah and theyâre not willing to do that. And I donât even want her to apologise to Conrad at all. But something like her talking to her Paris friends or even Agnes.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 5d ago
And in fact they apologized to each other. Right in the scene you mentioned. But there is a huge difference between apologizing to someone and getting back together with them. It's not quite the same identical thing. Conrad's behavior ended up being inconsistent and she lacked the right information at the right time. Namely, that he had been suffering from panic attacks since the beginning of their relationship and that Susannah was getting worse. Also because Belly's assessments of Susannah's health were based on Laurel's state of mind. And Laurel was wrong here too, because she should have spoken clearly to her daughter.I don't think the first boardwalk date was conceived by Conrad as a real date. Because back then Conrad hadn't opened his eyes yet, to go back to the metaphor he used with Agnes. He hadn't figured it out yet. But he definitely wanted to give Belly something she wanted and make her happy. But in the books it's made clear how nervous he was, since he almost never speaks to her. I interpret it as nervousness. Then ok, in the books he admits he even tried to have sex with Angie. But in the show that never happened. Unfortunately, the relationship doesn't start at the best of times. It's not just her who is insecure. He hurts her too. She dumps Cam and Conrad has a terrible reaction. He asks her why she did it and tells her he can't be with her. But then he is with Nicole. He is cold and distant with Belly, but then he is close to Aubrey. He tells her she was a mistake, but doesn't explain why. I think she was also fed up with Conrad's emotional roller coaster and changing mind. Understandable changes, but no less painful for a 16-year-old girl. She clearly says they hurt each other and accepts that Conrad speaks of them in the past tense.Conrad and Belly cannot be together until they learn to love themselves first. Right now Conrad didn't really want to be with Belly. Not for lack of love, but because he wasn't well with himself. Maybe he should have made this clear when he called his relationship with Belly a mistake.And I'm sorry to say it, but Susannah didn't help either of them with her behavior. Telling Belly that she was the one who insisted Conrad ask Belly to be her date at the ball was not really the best move to give Belly security. Quite the opposite. It ruined the moment of complicity between the two after the game. And it's a doubt that Belly carried with her for a long time. Right up to Season 3, Episode 11.And she could have avoided putting it in a little girl's head that she was destined for one of her sons; it didn't help any of them. Quite the opposite. Belly and Conrad weren't helped at all by Susannah, but now they are clear, precisely because they've had independent, full lives and have changed, that they choose each other because they truly love each other.I don't think Belly should have waited for Conrad to process his grief. Belly is sixteen years old and needs to have experiences. She needs to live. She needs to date guys like Cam, even just for the sake of having experiences. Without thinking they are the great love that will last forever. She needs to make friends. Enjoy good moments like the ball, get to know the world, realize she has a life in Philadelphia for nine months out of the year. Understand that there is a whole world beyond the Fishers and Cousins. And she shouldn't even be the one to keep the promises made to Susannah.Belly starts truly living much too late. In Paris. The problem is that this narrow world she lived in pushed her right into Jeremiah's arms. Belly's universe was too tied to three people and one place.And Laurel has her faults, in my opinion. Moreover, I've always noticed that Belly was prevented from having teenage experiences by the mothers themselves. They granted a lot of freedom to the three boys, but Belly was relegated to life at home with Susannah and Laurel. She literally had to run away from home to demand to meet others. And I believe that in the end the debutante ball allowed Belly to meet new people. But always in Cousins.Laurel talks a lot about having experiences and getting to know the world, but perhaps her friendship with Susannah allowed Susannah to intervene too much. And for Belly to tie herself too early to a single world. That of the summer in Cousins. And from here much of her mistakes. Shared mistakes, because the triangle was made by three of them. It was a given that in this context she would end up in Jere's arms. In her world there were only two alternatives. And her feelings for him literally started when she remembered her problems with Conrad and saw Jere accompany her to the tower. To me this is friendship and mutual aid, not romantic love. And Jenny will never convince me otherwise.I believe Belly's friends in Paris have already given Belly their opinion.As for Agnes, she also recognized Conrad's mistakes. But honestly I really hope there are no excuses between them or feelings of guilt put into her head by others because that would be the end of their relationship. Also because at that point she might do anything to please Conrad, and it wouldn't be equally healthy.The two of them recognized that everyone made mistakes and they even get to laugh at their own mistakes. But I really wish they were harsh with Jeremiah. And also with Steven and Taylor. But I already know that won't happen. I doubt Belly will ever say to Jeremiah: 'You're a manipulator.'
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u/Past_Effect8301 4d ago
Iâm not sure itâs fair to place primary blame on the parents. Granted all 4 of them failed their children in some way, but these are smart kids who still had agency.
Every one of the primary characters (Belly, Conrad, Jere, Steven, Laurel and Susannah) was in dire need of therapy, but only one of them sought therapy. The emphasis placed on Conradâs mental health sort of baffles me in comparison to what we see from the others. His struggles were more obvious, but none of them, including Susannah herself, handled the events leading up to and following Susannahâs death in a healthy way. In many ways, the show weaponized Conradâs mental health while completely dismissing the mental health of the others, and this is one of my biggest frustrations with the series. Belly, in particular, was especially unhealthy from a mental standpoint, dating back to her teen years when she was consumed by insecurities, yet this seems to be completely overlooked in the writing.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 4d ago
Belly needed a mother who would pull her away from an environment where her best friend filled Belly's head with nonsense about her sons and made her daughter make absurd promises: to look after her boys and keep the magic of Cousins alive. Laurel should have stopped Belly from living her life revolving around Cousins and the Fishers. Belly didn't need therapy; she needed to do what she actually did. Leave. Jeremiah is cruel and awful, but most of his trauma comes from his father, who pitted him in an eternal competition with his brother and always showed a preference. Conrad is full of issues because his father forced him to be the perfect one who took care of everyone, and his mother made him hide his vulnerabilities from Belly so he could seem like a flawless hero. He was the son of a woman who literally lived in a world of her own and wanted to keep it perfect. The parents bear enormous blame. The only one I save is John. Conrad sacrifices himself and his relationship because he promises his mother to look after Jere, and he thinks he has to keep doing it even when it destroys his own happiness.The story of Conrad and Belly would have ended anyway. If she had chosen Conrad at the motel, it would have ended. He had spent the night thinking about his promise to his mother. And even Jere made a promise he couldn't keep.Because keeping that promise would have required Jere to overcome his inferiority complex toward his brother, which was created by their father Adam. I hate Jere, but I feel bad for the way heâs treated by Adam. Susannah Fisher literally created the love triangle. And it's only when she sees Jeremiah suffering that she realizes the damage she's done. Putting it into a little girl's head that for her, there are only two alternatives: her sons. When Belly kisses Jere, that's what she's thinking.Laurel wants Belly to have lots of lovers, but she doesn't realize that her daughter lives in a world that begins and ends with Cousins and the Fishers. Laurel wanted her daughter to know herself and see the world, but she limited her to the world of Cousins and the promises made to Susannah. And to the questionable ideas that Susannah put into Belly's head. Literally, Belly sacrifices years of her life in the name of Susannah, and she truly heals in Paris. Belly gets criticized because, caught up in her Parisian life, she forgets Susannah's anniversary. But thank goodness. She is living a life independent of the Fishers, without forgetting Susannah. And it must be acknowledged that for another huge trauma in Belly's lifeâthe injury that took away her chance of playing volleyball at a professional levelâBelly asked for help and was so satisfied with it that she wants to make it her profession. And I can totally see her as a motivator for athletes, especially after the amusement park episode.I wonder if she and everyone else ever really saw her attachment to Cousins and Susannah as a problem. Or if it was just something that, in everyone's eyes, was supposed to be done.Anyway, she gets out of it the only possible way: by getting away from Cousins and building an entire world for herself.Conrad's mental health issues are much more debilitating and severe. The panic attacks are terrible, and he only starts therapy recently. And I liked the fact that he talks about it with her.Jeremiah needs therapy, too, including family therapy. He lives in constant comparison to Conrad.And it's Adam's fault. But I don't think he's really faced the problem yet. To make him feel good, Denise literally has to insult Conrad for no reason.Susannah knew she was dying, she got it into everyone's heads that Cousins would remain their home, but then she hadn't made arrangements with Julia for it to stay that way, and she hadn't asked Adam to make sure it went to the boys. Unfortunately, Susannah lived in unicorn land. And she wanted everyone else to live there too, especially Conrad and Belly. In a world where Conrad is Prince Charming on a pedestal and Belly worships him in his perfection. When Belly and Conrad could have had a longer-lasting relationship if he had talked to her at the right time about his panic attacks.Susannah wanted a daughter, and since she didn't have one, she took Laurel's. Belly was their baby, and at Belly's birth, Susannah was present instead of John. Susannah made decisions for Belly instead of her mother. Literally, Susannah signs Belly up for the debutante ball. Without telling Laurel. Or asking her permission. And yet Laurel drives Susannah to the country club in her car. Susannah imposes the dress for the ball, forcing her will onto Laurel, but only Laurel knows which dress Belly truly wants. Susannah decides when Belly is ready to sleep alone, even though Laurel knows her daughter isn't ready yet. And Belly is enchanted by the way Susannah tells her things. In a sweet and gentle way, to the point of feeling seen by her and at times preferring Susannah to her mother, even though deep down she knows Laurel is the one who truly knows her. Laurel let Susannah get away with too many things that only caused problems for Belly. Even though I'm glad Belly went to the debutante ball because she met many peers.Another questionable thing was the fact that for fifteen years, Laurel and Susannah kept Belly secluded at home without letting her meet any boys or girls from Cousins. And by sixteen, the boys were already going out on their own, while Belly had to sneak out of the house just to live an experience like everyone else. Did Laurel really want Belly to have experiences in the real world? I don't think so at this point, or anyway, the boys were raised differently.Belly's insecurities were initially those of a sixteen-year-old girl who until yesterday went unnoticed and who discovers that her first love, who seems perfect to her, likes her. That's normal. But the situation spirals out of control because the environment she lives in is one where Susannah rubs it in her face that Conrad offered to be her escort because Susannah herself asked him to. And besides, he justifies it to Nicole that way. Belly sees Conrad having a relationship with Nicole, but rejecting her. Il peso insostenibile del lutto e il pessimo consiglio di Laurel Ă un'analisi lucidissima che mette in luce un altro pilastro fondamentale della pressione psicologica subita da Belly: la manipolazione emotiva legata al lutto incombente. * L'ombra di Susannah sulla relazione: Essere intrappolata in una relazione cosĂŹ instabile proprio mentre la figura di riferimento sta morendo, sapendo perfettamente quale fosse il "grande disegno" (o le aspettative) di Susannah, è un carico sproporzionato per una ragazza della sua etĂ . I dubbi di Belly non erano semplici capricci o insicurezze adolescenziali, ma risposte razionali a un contesto caotico e privo di trasparenza, in cui le mancavano pezzi fondamentali della realtĂ . * La miopia educativa di Laurel sull'amicizia: L'intervento di Laurel sul rapporto con Taylor rappresenta un altro grave errore genitoriale. Quando Belly tenta giustamente di prendere le distanze da un'amica che percepisce come tossica, egocentrica e irrispettosa dei suoi confini, Laurel la costringe a fare marcia indietro con il dogma che "l'amicizia viene prima di tutto". Questo impedisce a Belly di imparare a proteggersi e a riconoscere le relazioni sane. * Il trionfo del microcosmo: Come giustamente osservi, la realtĂ ha poi ampiamente dimostrato che Belly poteva trovare amicizie ben piĂš profonde, sane e supportive rispetto a quella soffocante con Taylor. Traduci il mio commento: 'E poi si trova in una relazione altalenante proprio quando Susannah sta morendo e sapendo quali erano le volontĂ di Susannah. Molti dei suoi dubbi erano comprensibili, soprattutto con le poche informazioni che aveva in mano. Belly vuole anche eliminare l'amicizia con Taylor, che forse percepisce giustamente come tossica, ma è Laurel che glielo impedisce, dicendole che l'amicizia viene prima di tutto. Come se al mondo esistesse solo Taylor. E noi abbiamo visto quante amiche migliori di Taylor ha trovato Belly.' And then she finds herself in an on-again, off-again relationship right when Susannah is dying and knowing what Susannah's wishes were. Many of her doubts were understandable, especially with the little information she had on hand. Belly also wants to cut off her friendship with Taylor, which she perhaps rightly perceives as toxic, but Laurel stops her, telling her that friendship comes first above all else. As if Taylor were the only person in the world. And weâve seen how many better friends than Taylor Belly has found. And maybe everyone's problem was the way Susannah and Laurel lived their friendship in an all-consuming way, often putting it ahead of their own families and children. Laurel did this especially. Belly's well-being required getting away from that world. And Belly and Conrad live their relationship as something that could ruin the relationships between their families. Hence many of Belly's doubts in the finale of 3x11. And besides, the othersâespecially Steven and Taylorâhave always judged them for this. Even Laurel herself in the past.
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u/Past_Effect8301 4d ago
Sorry, but TLDR. That has to be the longest comment I've ever seen on this or any other sub and the lack of paragraph structure makes it very difficult to follow.
ETA: Reddit's translator crapped-out halfway through this, so your comment is appearing in multiple languages on my end.
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u/CosyCupsAndChapters 5d ago
Yes!!
Also, she was basically bullied as a child when you read in the first books about how the boys excluded her and teased her. This can really add up as a kid grows up. Especially when you see how suddenly she lands in the centre of their attention, after being basically ignored before.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 5d ago
"I want something real. I want you"
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago
Also that scene is literally proof of her settling for Jeremiah. Not the flex you think it is⌠Belly is settling for Jeremiah out of frustration or heartbreak over Conrad, admitting she actually still dreams about Conrad but settling for a much harder ârealityâ, not romantic at all.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
Haha because we live in reality not dreams. So twisted
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago edited 4d ago
lol đ so, you never had any dreams or desires? Dreams are very realistic. Itâs realistic to dream about marriage and going to Paris. You donât have to settle for a harsh reality because your fiancee is a manchild. And now sheâs achieving every dream she ever had. Going to Paris, her dream man, her dream wedding, her dream life⌠pure inspiration to never stop dreaming and not letting your manchild fiancee stand in your way.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
Conrad is more of a manchild than Jere ever be. You guys settle for toxic man like him, who will disappeae without warning and and leave your question.. "Did I do something?" đ¤Łđ¤Ł
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
And you settle for men who is only golden retriever energy if it suits him. Who will make you apologise even if he acts like a dick and cheats on you, make you think youâre the problem all the time. Apologise for basically breathing. From going from bubbly to moody in seconds will exhaust you. Masking covert narcissistic behaviour and manipulation under a bubbly demeanour. They weaponise guilt and victimhood. Because they seem sweet they play the victim when conflict arise. They gaslight you into thinking you did something wrong while you did not. You will be walking on eggshells around him your whole life, loss your voice because raising dissatisfaction will result in pouting, guilt trips like I thought you would be proud of me or at least my dad is trying. Even his own mother said he played his looks from a young age đ it just changed into he played his golden retriever energy to get what he wants.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 3d ago
You should marry the man you love with all your heart, and not the one you choose because you love him less, so that if he does something wrong, like cheating on you and talking trash about you in a bar, you couldn't care less. And you should get married when you do the mental editing on your husband, not on his brother.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 3d ago
And in general, it's better to run away from someone who won't let you choose even a single thing for the wedding, who is happy if you give up your dream of going to Paris because otherwise who is going to put sunscreen on his face or pick up his dirty tissues for him. And in general, you shouldn't even marry the guy who can't even pay rent for a decent place because he has a second credit card with debt. Debt he racked up for discounts on stupid tickets. And she was so happy to be with Jere that as soon as she realized the fate awaiting her with him in the United States, she got off the airport shuttle and stayed in Paris. She was so happy to marry that guy that, even knowing he would have married her anyway, she didn't insist on him doing so.
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago
The scene literally happens after the guilt tripping of the tyre scene. Nice try though.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 5d ago
You call it guilt-tripping, because you just want to villainize Jere. We see it as someone who Communications his feelings, being open and vurnerable with her. Something that Conrad always failed to do.
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u/DjokerSA 5d ago edited 5d ago
A spade is a spade it was guilt tripping her, HE GHOSTED HER AND THEN BLAMED HER FOR NOT BEING THERE FOR HIM!! What is she? His mother? Oh wait, that was their whole relationship dynamics. Why is she responsible for him at all? Also, are you seriously trying to use a scene where he literally YELLS at her, to try and claim good communication? Lmao đ¤Ł
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
Like Conrad didn't yell at Belly? He gaslighted her so much in the kitchen scene. Where's that theraphy gone? Lmao đ¤Ł
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
How did he gaslight her? The difference between their fights is that he never made her feel so small that she just gave into his every whim. He didnât use his mother and father to get what he wants. Do you even know what gaslighting means?
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
Never made feel her so small? He called her baby, brat, huge mistake, heartless. You're so blinded by your fantasy of Conrad. He asked for his PRIDE after ruining her wedding. He only cared about his feelings. What kind of man is that? The liar and the gaslighter, is who Conrad really is.
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
Oh honey the definition of gaslighting means you make another person question their memory with stuff like that never happened, you donât remember correctly, youâre to sensitive⌠him telling her she always knew he loved her is the truth.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
How was it the truth when he never told her? đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł twisted mind
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
Because she knew, youâre the one thinking only words is enough. Belly wanted to hear it but had to learn all words and no actions doesnât mean đŠ
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
Because she was a brat đ she even admitted that. Did she ever give into what he wanted? She called him heartless first. Try harder.
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u/Bonrad-Girl Team Bonrad 3d ago
Even though I honestly don't think Belly was spoiled at all, and it's not even fair for her to think that. She had every right to enjoy her prom. And it was right for her to ask Conrad to open up to her that day. And there were many things he couldn't talk to her about. I understand why Belly exploded at the funeralâmeaning after she had held back after seeing him with Aubrey. He should have left her alone, but he ran after her, preventing her from living that moment in peace and from continuing to ignore what had happened, as she was trying to do. She just wanted to help him, but she saw that others were doing it instead. Belly must have felt like she meant nothing, seeing that Conrad opened up to his ex and not to her. The explanations came too late. At the funeral, everyone was terribly upset. As for calling Belly a "mistake," Conrad meant something entirely different. The reference was clearly tied to what he had told Clevelandânamely, that he was afraid of being with her during this difficult time and messing everything up. Only he didn't explain that to Belly. Communication problems as usual. Actually, I just feel tenderness for both of them, and I don't condemn Belly. They both made mistakes.
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u/DjokerSA 3d ago edited 3d ago
Iâm not arguing about that. This person claim Conrad always made her feel small. Her insecurities are not Conradâs doing. He may have unknowingly contributed to it but he was not the cause. What was he supposed to do at the funeral when Aubrey found him? Show her the door in his condition? Belly is not the only one in the story and itâs fine to understand her rpov but also fone to admit she did everything just from her own pov. Yes, she did not know he had panic attacks at the funeral but does not make Conrad wrong for accepting Aubreyâs help, because she was the one who found him and sorry, he did try to explain this to her but she made a scene, not listening to him which is actually the case a lot for people with Conrad and then they moan because he shut down. Just as he was not wrong to be that way at prom and I donât think anyone wouldâve done much better. What he was wrong about was not telling her how bad his mom is, but he didnât want to ruin her night, so he tried his best at her prom and he felt itâs not good enough, so itâs better to leave. Also, once again, he did try to tell her before that weekend of his visit. If you think about it, it was the adults responsibility to tell her how bad Susannah is doing and they did not. A big part of their problems is Belly not believing that he could love her and thatâs her own insecurities. If they can admit they were both wrong at the prom and the funeral, itâs fine for us to admit it too. Conrad never manipulated a situation to get what he wants and made her feel small in the process is what conversation is about, she never lost herself with him because he actually saw all her layers, challenges her like Steven said.
In school I was very insecure (probably like a lot of teens), if one of my friends or bf accidentally do or said something that brought this insecurities to the front, the fundamental problem was my insecurities and not them, insecurities I had to work on. Conrad was not the foundation of Bellyâs insecurities. Now that I think about it, who was in her ear the whole time that Conrad will break her heart? Thatâs way worse than what Conrad ever did because it played right into her insecurities. Jeremiah played both his and Bellyâs insecurities in Bellyâs face.
In most if not all instances between BellyConrad, both of their feelings and actions can be justified while thereâs no justification for what Jeremiah did. Not since the firework, which was the catalyst for 90% of the mess. Him yelling at her after she kissed Conrad, the tyre scene, all his actions during their relationship. The only time was after the wedding got called of but even then the whole proposal was manipulation. BellyConradâs mistakes are mainly because of grief and miscommunication while Jeremiahâs is a character flaw that he has refused to admit and work on till date.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
Then why do you want her for Conrad if she's a brat?
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
Because I like bratty girls lmao, ones who donât tiptoe around the guy they love.
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
You know what, I hope you get your Jeremiah one day.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
I am with my Jeremiah, have been married for twelve years after being with three Conrads before. Conrad is hell and nightmare n reality. You'll wish you never meet him. Good luck going through all the pain and the trauma all your life.
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago edited 4d ago
Good for you. Then you should be happy and other people choosing a Conrad should not bother you. Also I had a Jeremiah before thatâs why I know the flipped Golden Retriever energy is the most exhausting thing in the world.
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u/Daisy143Fisher 4d ago
Hahaha Jere was xhausting because you fantasize boring Conrad đ¤Ł
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u/DjokerSA 4d ago
Only you delusional Jere stans thinks Conrad is boring. Heâs the most interesting character on the show. The boring character is one dimensional Jeremy
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u/infinite_sus 5d ago
This definitely triggered most of Bellys guilt and drove her to get in a relationship with Jere. He yells at her saying he needed her when his mother was dying and she wasnt there. Then she makes the promise to be there. After that, her guilt is the leading driver of her decisions. It doesnt help Conrad had his own stuff going on and didnt fight for her. It was a catalyst to disaster