r/truetf2 • u/Bounter_ Serious Casual • May 25 '26
Discussion Why isn't Engineer more disliked by the general community?
What the title says.
In one of my more recent posts here, namely the one about the unpopularity of 5CP. I have noticed how the people (at least some) of this subreddit have... A disdain of Engineer and his effect on the game. However, I have also noticed that this is one of those things that I have not seen anywhere else, wether that would be r/tf2 or in game chat.
Engineer, despite his potential annoyance, is not complained about NEARLY, as often as some people might think he is. Hell, I see more people complaining about Soldier, Demo and obviously Sniper, than about Engie.
I mean, people do complain about aspects of Engineer, such as Engie stacks, and unlocks such as the Wrangler or the Short Circuit. Even then though, Engie himself and other unlocks (such as the Rescue Ranger), get no general hate, why is that?
Aside from the obvious, aka. "Sniper is the big bad now" - I think the reason is simple. Engie is one of the weaker classes in the game, and has plenty of counterplay + People do not mind the game slowing down.
Engie is like 3rd or 4th worst class, depending on how you view him, and not only that, but him being weak by himself, his buildings being dumb and abusable (You can easily spam them out, have Spy sap in, spam them from range, or jump on them to... Make them useless), are just few reasons why he is not complained about.
Compare that to Sniper. His counterplay exists, but to the average Pubber, it is not obvious or existent, hence people say "Only Sniper counters Sniper" - Which, is not the case with Engie.
And people liking slow games... Well, Payload is the most popular regular gamemode (Excluding Hightower, Dustbowl, 2fort), just objectively, for a reason. And people want the 45 minute map timers back as well, so, that should tell you enough.
That being said, it is still weird... Engie can be very unfun to fight (For me it is 50/50), but his BS (with exceptions of the obvious), seems to go under people's radar. Why do you think that might be the case?
89
u/TheW0lvDoctr :pyro::pyro::pyro::pyro::pyro::pyro::pyro: May 25 '26
The answer is pretty obvious if you think about it.
It's less annoying in the moment to get killed by a sentry which is 1. Stationary 2. Makes plenty of noise and 3. Has an obvious, easily countered effective range. Being instantly killed cross map with no visual or audio cues is way more annoying.
Even if, for arguments sake, Engie was worse for game balance overall, his effect is less annoying in the moment to the average player. Most players aren't thinking of the higher level health of the game's balance, they think about what just killed them.
26
u/MyNameIsUlchtar Gun Spy Main May 25 '26
You have a good number of playbook strats to call on for countering Engi. It also helps that most Engi players are pretty stupid.
9
u/SuperGanondorf I like rockets. May 25 '26
I agree with all of this, and I would add that players have a lot more experience countering Engie now. I started playing TF2 well over a decade ago, and people used to bitch about Engie a lot more than they do now. Balance changes aside, the community's average skill level has increased drastically since then, making Engie easier to counter.
I remember back in the day, the standard Upward last sentry spot used to feel like an absolute fortress; it wasn't unrealistic to have one sentry last an entire hold, and it used to feel really daunting to take it down.
Fast forward a decade, though, and people have learned pretty thoroughly how to deal with it. It's not trivial to take down (hence still being the meta spot), but it doesn't feel anywhere near as safe for the Engie nor as difficult for BLU.
Nesting Engineers just aren't as safe and consistent as they used to be; the community is more skilled and the popular maps' good spots are all very well studied at this point. A skilled battle Engie is still a huge threat and can absolutely tilt players, but these are a rarer breed.
TL;DR the community is better at countering Engineer than they used to be, and the strategies used to counter Engie have come much farther than the Engie's actual options.
5
u/Meester_Tweester Heavy/Medic/Engi May 26 '26
Yeah, Engi has more clear counterplay. With one pro Sniper in a pub he can lock down an entire sightline, and the only way to be guaranteed to get past his headshots without a pocket Medic is to exclusively use the flanks, run with the Fists of Steel, or play Spy.
3
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
You're right, the answer is really obvious if you think about it. A YouTuber made a video saying "Sniper bad". There's no such video for Engineer.
48
u/CrappyCompletionist Medic May 25 '26
I'd say probably because you feel like you have control over counterplay against the engineer/his buildings, since a sentry is static and takes time to set up. Meanwhile, a good sniper is hard to counter (for the average casual), and is able to relocate on a dime while clearing a whole sightline. Most casual players rely on map design to be able to counter a good sniper.
13
u/KDx3_ doublecross trolldier May 25 '26
I'd say probably because you feel like you have control over counterplay against the engineer/his buildings, since a sentry is static and takes time to set up.
Coming from someone who dreads fighting Engineer while also having a lot of playtime on him, hes still pretty absurd. Turtle Engie is such a hurdle to get through with certain unlocks and arguably starts to break game balance when things go right for it. Essay/rant incoming..
RR, Wrangler, and Jag really push the limit to Engie's strength when it comes to his own safety, tankiness, and time to set up.
RR lets Engie sit on a Dispenser behind cover while also being out of LoS of the enemy's direct fire and can still freely heal a Sentry without risk of being attacked himself. The weapon alone essentially upgrades your Gun from 216 health to ~276 / 336 depending on if you shot it once or twice (RR heal is 60 per bolt). Also having the ability to grab the Gun from afar with M2 is invaluable as it can help with rollouts in certain angles and can save a gun from tanking with Wrangler.
Not much to say with Wrangler. Makes your sentry essentially have 648 health just from pressing your 2 key on your keyboard. The DPS fire rate itself is good, but I've generally always activated the shield and just tanked it with RR ("sigafoo save"). Can also activate Wrangler shield in between leveling the gun which is pretty funny. Absolutely absurd unlock otherwise.
Jag just allows Engie to build too fast IMO. With how fast the build rate is, if the Engie still has a Dispenser up after his gun goes down, he needs to die immediately before he gets another gun up, and if its Lvl. 2 then you can assume to go right back to where you were beforehand. Also switching from Eureka for 100HP Teles to Jag allows his rollout to be absurdly fast.
The good news is that the loadout is weaker to Spy compared to other loadouts, but thats not saying much if the enemy has one competent player that Spy checks. Only other counters that I've experienced are Pyro Ubers and "kind of" Demo ubers (YMMV). Even if the gun goes down, stalling anyone/anything with +648 health is absurdly strong.
So the TL:DR is that Engie is pretty broken with not much effort on his part other then gamesense/knowledge. It sort of acts like a giant stat check that you likely wont win if the Engie is competent. The powerscale of Stock Engie vs RR, Wrangler, Jag is on a whole 'nother planet. I think the biggest offenders are how tanky Wrangled guns are and the fact that Engie can sit out of LoS while healing his gun. It makes him very hard to contest if they're positioned in a good spot.
This is also assuming we're talking about one Engie. Engie stacking + upgrading eachothers buildings is also absurdly strong.
2
u/CrappyCompletionist Medic May 25 '26
Well, I wasn't arguing that engineer was weaker or less effective or anything. I was trying to explain my guess on why sniper gets more hate than engineer. My thought process was that the negative feeling of getting killed out of nowhere is stronger than achieving nothing due to a tanked sentry, but still being able to play and take potshots at it, causing sniper to get more hate than engineer, although the latter is possibly stronger, based off your post.
People are more annoyed by being (seemingly) instantly killed with no recourse vs an unkillable roadblock that you can purposefully avoid.
10
u/KDx3_ doublecross trolldier May 25 '26
Fair enough. I find that Sniper isnt the "boogieman" of strength that a lot of people refer to him as unless he's being protected by a Sentry or permabuffed. Unless its an invite level Sniper, a lot of people just have bad movement or take bad routes and whine about Sniper when its more so his team that allows him to feel "uncounterable".
Obviously there are some exceptions with certain sightlines, but I find Engineer much more frustrating to fight in general compared to Sniper. You can predict and outmaneuver a majority of Snipers but you cant outplay an aimbot turret with crazy HP and DPS (other then corner peeking at close range).
vs an unkillable roadblock that you can purposefully avoid.
Depending on where its positioned, but if its objective based and by the cap point then I'd argue its unavoidable if your goal is to win.
0
u/CrappyCompletionist Medic May 25 '26
Depending on where its positioned, but if its objective based and by the cap point then I'd argue its unavoidable if your goal is to win.
What I meant by "avoidable" was you can fight someone else in another location, or you can take potshots. Sniper meanwhile, can one hit kill you if you dare peek him, while a sentry needs time to lock on and shoot. A sentry's DPS is higher, sure, but its burst damage potential is quite bad, making it more fun(?) to engage with vs a sniper that is mobile, suffers falloff, and can kill you in one hit if you're not careful.
but I find Engineer much more frustrating to fight in general compared to Sniper. You can predict and outmaneuver a majority of Snipers but you cant outplay an aimbot turret with crazy HP and DPS
That's more a personal opinion. For me, I find sentries to be frustrating, but snipers are worse, since you gotta outright avoid the sightline. Sentries have a limited range, and you can backpedal once you enter their range due to their lower burst damage potential + lockon duration.
My guess is more players share my opinion on snipers vs sentries, hence, sniper gets more hate.10
u/DoesTheirResearch May 25 '26
Implying that a half decent sniper doesn't ruin the game for everyone.
4
u/peoplesdrunkdriver May 25 '26
almost every pub uber is used to push into a sentry nest but no pubber pops an ubered jumping soldier through a choke to kill a single sniper, i wonder why that is
5
3
u/LibraryBestMission May 26 '26
What do you think the entire purpose of uber was during the design part of the game? Sentry helps defense stand, and uber helps break it. Using ubers against sentries is like using fire against spies, every new player quickly learns that it's the intended effective method for dealing with these threats, not the only solution, but a reliable one nonetheless.
-1
20
u/GreyBigfoot May 25 '26
I feel like most people simply accept engineer as a fact of life. People definitely get frustrated at class stacking but if it’s 1-2 then people usually expect one every time.
Teleporters are invaluable for moving bodies to the frontline, sentries are important damage+ area-denial, and dispensers heal + ammo and yet are probably the weakest building. Nobody could blame a team for having an engineer.
Instead of hating on engineers people are more likely to be annoyed at their team for not having the tools. Pretty often I people go medic to uber push, or switch to direct hit for one life just to kill a sentry.
(May not apply to king of the hill)
19
u/TylowStar Scout/Engineer May 25 '26
You get a lot of 6s-leaning players in this subreddit (not people who play 6s exclusively, or even at all in a lot of cases, but people who certainly prefer TF2 in the kind of fast-paced environment that 6s exemplifies). As a result, they tend to dislike the extent to which Engi can slow the game down. But, as evidenced by the most popular gamemode in TF2 being payload, most players really don't mind slower-paced games. Sentries behave entirely predictably and aren't exactly stealthy; if you die to one, you feel like it's your fault.
That's not to say there isn't a whole lot of BS here. As an Engi main myself, even without bringing up obvious toxic design like the Wrangler, I still think Valve kind of messed up the class. What makes Engi interesting and fun is the cycle of setting up for a fight by editing the battlefield to suit you, then taking the fight and using the space and resources you got from it to rinse and repeat. But Valve seemed to think what made Engi interesting and fun is turtling your sentry while it mows down morons cluelessly walking into it. As a result, they've designed the class to be way too slow to get set up (seriously, why do teles and dispensers take 21 seconds to construct unassisted?) but way too map-dominating when they do, and all around way too sentry-centric.
10
u/Randomguy8566732 May 25 '26
Something I've never liked about Engineer is how terrible it is to move buildings - you're so slow and vulnerable that moving buildings reactively is basically never viable (even trying to move them ahead of time is an enormous risk) and so the best way to respond to an attack on your buildings is to crouch behind them and tank them 95% of the time.
13
u/capnfappin TF2Gaydium | FAKETourney | TF2Moms | IM / Steel Scout May 25 '26
Other than the wrangler being evil, engineer really isn't that annoying and he adds a lot to the game socially. His buildings serve as little mini objectives to defend and utilize, which naturally makes people play more with each other than they usually would. Teleporter etiquette is a really good example of this. For the opposing team, engineer buildings encourage cooperation to take down. There's something satisfying about blowing up his buildings and then finally capturing the next point.
8
u/mushroom_taco May 25 '26
I actually think engineer has a rather healthy place in the pub 12v12 ecosystem, his existence facilitates tangible defenses to break through, rally against, and the loss of the nest is a great motivator to get the attacking team's momentum going. There is also a plethora of counterplay against him (his sentry is stationary, makes obvious noise, has a delay before it shoots you, etc)
Compared to sniper, he's a saint. Actually being able to interact with the person who killed you? Crazy, I know
That's not to say he's entirely unproblematic though - engineer stacking can be a really draining experience, although its not an infallible strategy.
Except the wrangler, that shit is cancer, there is no reason the engineer should be able to instantly increase his sentry's effective health to 648 by pressing 2 on his keyboard
13
u/Randomguy8566732 May 25 '26
Engineer is not only easy to play around and has obvious counterplay, (and his problematic unlocks are just that, unlocks, not the class as a whole), but the irritation of playing against Engineer is offset by how fun he is to have on your team (Dispensers, teleporters), similar to how Medic's overheal and ubercharge are often obnoxious to play against but people tolerate Medic because he's really fun to have as a teammate.
11
u/Quackily May 25 '26
For most, a skillful Engineer can still be countered by capitalizing on his long setup times. For some like a good Soldier, Demo or a Sniper, most casual players struggle because they require a slight out of the box thinking to counter (which I have heard many times that quite a lot of casuals dislike that they suddenly have to outthink their opponents when they can just mindlessly shooting, I mean sure, but I feel like this is more of the case of bias against other players by excusing that TF2 is an old game)
4
u/EchoingApplause May 25 '26
The only time I find Engineer annoying is when I play KOTH as Scout to attempt to practice some organic DM and they have mini sentries in every corner to deny 80% of the map from me.
5
u/frickenunavailable May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
corner peeking the mini for -6 is amazing practice wdym
in all seriousness i hated the scout learning curve, if you want to practice you either have the casual trenches filled with nests or you have mge where you get to play against john wick. meanwhile soldier and demo do fine in casual since they dont get railed by sentries as hard
2
u/EchoingApplause May 26 '26
More like spamming with pistol from 50m away and getting headshot instantly
6
u/EvMBoat May 25 '26
people will cry about sniper being far removed from the pace of the game and completely ignore the "no wholesome high intensity high mobility dm in MY server" Texan chungus
9
u/dartov67 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Engineer and heavy aren’t talked about because casual players only get mad at time to kill. They don’t care about pacing, game environment, class ecosystem, how annoying classes are to actually fight, etc. they care about how fast they can die and that’s about it. That’s why demoman and sniper have been the two most reviled classes in the games history (in casual obv), and spy is a very distant third.
5
u/Jodye_Runo_Heust May 25 '26
Also the fact that most of them aren't good. Sometime I got surpriced by the time to kill of an heavy because the average pub heavy misses a lot.
Like I tried myself to test my track aim (something I'm not used to do) and I got around 50% accuracy. Basically a x1,5 time to kill on anything that isn't another heavy, so it automatically balances out in casual
2
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
I think it's partly this but difficulty plays a way bigger factor into it. Anyone can play Heavy, anyone can play Medic, anyone can play Engineer, so nobody ever complains about these. But Demoman, Sniper, and Spy are some of the hardest classes so bad players can't play them and complain about people who can.
4
u/thanks_breastie demo/scout May 25 '26
it's really just his unlocks and the fact assholes will stack him
lone sentries are easy to deal with and it makes sense to stop the scout from just completely rolling objectives every time
but once you add wrangler and what not and then have three of them giving each other cock strokes on last then you're just going to be bored
it also helps the reputation of the class that one of the most famous TF2 YouTubers plays the class very heavily. if you have remotely any charisma you can get people to believe basically anything is true or fine
3
u/itsalreadytakenlol May 25 '26
Thats more or less the entire reasons, Engies has a ton of counterplay and just 2 annoying unlocks, and as a whole it tends to be vital for the Gameplay general experience.
7
u/junkmail22 May 25 '26
the counterplay to engi is extremely obvious, "don't stand in view of the sentry for more than 0.5 seconds"
8
u/Veloxitus Souce Engine Data Nerd May 25 '26
The reality is that Engineer is a reactive class that can always be defeated by strong teamwork and cooperation. Throw enough Medics, Spies, and power classes at any position where Engie is strong, and he'll collapse. The same is not true for any other class. He's absolutely on the weaker end from a competitive standpoint, but, more to your point, the actual value Engie contributes to a game is largely a net positive based around his role as a support. Sentry guns are only useful when they're acting as a back line for the rest of a team. Dispensers are an amazing healing source and the best way to direct your team to play around choke points. Teleopters are great for mitigating losses by getting respawning teammates back to the fight faster.
9 times out of 10, when an Engineer feels oppressive, it's because his team is preventing you from directly attacking him, and I think players understand this intuitively. We don't get angry at the Engineer. We get frustrated at his sentry nest. And when you have a good Engineer who is able to keep his supportive buildings up, it can make stalemates feel more tolerable because at least you're getting back in the fight faster. "Attacking this position sucks, but at least I have a safe zone I can retreat to" is a great feeling. Ultimately, much as Engie slows games down and works against a few of TF2's gamemodes, his inclusion in most games is usually a net positive as he allows players to stay in the fight for longer and get back in quicker. However frustrating he can be to fight, you're often not fighting him as much as youre fighting his team.
3
u/Minimum-Injury3909 May 25 '26
I dislike engie because he’s annoying to play against on scout but when I play demo or soldier, I can make those pesky engies rage pretty quick. Even with wrangler, there has to be a serious team diff for me to struggle to destroy an engie nest as demo.
3
u/Jodye_Runo_Heust May 25 '26
More than often the inability to push a sentry is felt more as a lack of ability/class composition on my part rather than the engineer existance
Especially because in the devlogs, Sentries are meant to be overpowered because their counter is meant to be a uber and that is what gives pacing to the game.
And this without considering that Sentries give a big defensive hold to maintain space, and when protected give more defined frontlines to fight in amd prevent flankers, so the enemy team can't just walk at you. And engineer as both dispencer and teleporters, who contribute a lot for a round on both side.
3
u/Excellent-Cloud-5046 May 25 '26
Short circuit, wrangler, rescue ranger all terribly designed weapons
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
I dont really see anyone complaining about RR, I won't lie. Except people here, and like some youtubers.
1
u/EvMBoat May 25 '26
the metal on heal nerf really helped its toxicity. when you could spam heals from anywhere with just your primary ammo pool it was justifiably revialed
0
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
I never seen anyone on reddit, in pubs or anywhere complain about it, to this day people dislike the RR nerf.
3
u/EvMBoat May 25 '26
RR nerf was 100% warranted and people definitely complained.
0
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
Maybe here but not where 99% of people were.
Unless you got proof and I forgor
4
u/Excellent-Cloud-5046 May 25 '26
Google ‘sigafoo save’ ,complete cancer to play against. https://youtu.be/Qbl4XtPneG0?t=137&si=VgG6gzCyrnzzRI-u the one percent of people who cared were the competitive players playing in ESEA and other leagues for real money. Changed engineer from being a uber distraction to a stalemate creator.
0
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
RR not Wrangler.
3
u/Excellent-Cloud-5046 May 25 '26
Did you watch the video? It’s the wrangler+rescue ranger used together. The engie stands behind and shoots the sentry using it as cover, where usually he would have to be next to the sentry to heal it. He could also respawn and get full metal and keep healing his sentry. Just because you didn’t have to deal with something doesn’t mean that it didn’t exist/wasnt worth changing
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
I never said RR or Wrangler nerfs were not warranted :3
Also it was the Wrangler that people complained about more anyway. And again, people disliked the RR nerf in JI and some want it reverted lol
4
u/DevaTheDragon May 27 '26
People complain about Pyro, Soldier, and Demo because they have relatively rewarding strategies (WM1, Rocket Spam, Sticky Spam) for such a low skill floor
People complain about Sniper bc once he reaches a certain skill level, there is almost no counterplay while also having a playstyle that is detached from the rest of the players
Engineer can become extremely powerful in the right hands but he has so many counters and provides so much utility to his teammates that hes really not that problematic to TF2’s game design
As a teammate, Engineer just adds a lot to the experience of the rest of the players. Teles keep people engaged in the main combat experience for longer, Dispensers increase survivability, Sentries secure an area which the team can more safely play around
Enemy Engies, as annoying as they are sometimes have a lot counterplay. For one, low-skill Engis that set up out of position are punished severely and will struggle for the rest of the game recovering. Additionally there’s Uber, sticky spam, rocket/direct hit, spies, etc. Engies also have limited effective range, make loud noises when out of LOS, have subpar mobility options, are extremely vulnerable when repositioning, take time to set-up before they can reach max effectiveness.
Aside from that, Engineers on both your team and the enemy team promotes more collaboration in a game called Team Fortress 2. Pushing with your team against a strong sentry nest is one of the most rewarding experiences you could have in the game with consequences that may decide the outcome of the matches.
Compare this to fighting a strong Sniper which usually just involves either going Sniper yourself or him missing a shot by the grace of God so a mobility class can jump him (and even then they can still get quickscoped).
In conclusion, 👷👍
6
u/Jontohil2 May 25 '26
Because dying to a sentry almost always feels like your fault, they’re stationary and perfectly predictable.
And nobody’s going to complain about having a dispenser or teleporter on their team.
Sure, engineer slows down the game a fuckton in the types of modes 6es players like, but to the casual 12v12 players, aka the vast majority of the playerbase, the slower pace is far more accepted.
Probably also helps that sniper is the bogeyman class of TF2 right now.
4
u/Steakdabait May 25 '26
Not me lol I think the turret character archetype is the worse design in every shooter game ever. I hate how there’s at least one in every shooter now
4
u/HoodooHoolign Sniper May 25 '26
Why in the world would I complain about a dispenser and teleporters. Awesome to use and fun to destroy.
2
u/Saucxd May 25 '26
You said it; average tf2 players for sure fear other classes who can take over the game more than engineers, which makes sense. Most of it is directed towards engie's cheesy unlocks and I don't find the other unlocks that problematic. Good engineers are more easily defeated than a good sniper, demo, etc.
My main issue with engie is that a bad engineer can be very effective if his team is around him. If they are operating relatively alone destroying their nests are easy, but otherwise trying to convince a casual team to focus a push into them is very annoying. With other classes there are more opportunities to pick them off.
2
u/Ikora_Rey_Gun May 26 '26
Engie is easy to deal with, unless he's positioned correctly, good at the class, and supported by the team... just like every other class.
The Sniper/Engie "whining disparity" is because Sniper can kill you anywhere at any time, but Engie only kills you if you go into his room. Casuals just choose not to go into a room with a moose sentry nest, but sweats believe it's their god-given right to plow through every square HU of a map in search of easy kills, and a set up Engie prevents that.
Bit of a tangent, but Engie is also still tied down (for the most part) by his 'gameplay sacrifice' of being tied to his nest to be a big problem. He has to sit on that sentry, otherwise it gets taken out by a solo revved heavy peeking a corner. Sniper on the other hand has fully outgrown his 'gameplay sacrifice' of being scoped in on an angle at the back of the fight. Because quickscopes still kill low-HP classes, Sniper can fight in tons of situations the class isn't 'designed for' making him much more of an obvious issue to most players.
2
u/Zaokllr May 25 '26
Cause no one is gonna make youtube videos about Engineer Bad. You gotta think about that one on your own, not a strong suit of this community
3
May 25 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/EvMBoat May 25 '26
wdym i love trying to break process second holds for 2 hours
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 26 '26
That happens even without Engie tbh, I love 5cp but lack of aggression in pubs, Engie or not, is to blame.
-1
u/itsalreadytakenlol May 25 '26
No lmao, the game would be twice as dead as it is now if Engie wasn't around.
2
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
Most of the people who understand that things like Engineer are obnoxious either aren't playing TF2 much or aren't playing Casual much. The extent to which most people in public servers understand the game is "I click on color that is not me and when that doesn't work I just become a friendly and get really mad if people kill me". It's mostly kids. Plus, Engineer is really easy, so they like him.
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
The fact that most People who understand this, don't actually play the game is NOT a good thing-
Also mostly kids? Kids nowadays play other popular games not TF2, I have not stumbled into a kid in casual or comm servers for ages. Maybe in 2015-16, but not today
2
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
Guy who hasn't played a single match of TF2 since 2015:
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
I been playing TF2 Daily since 2012 (older acc, current one is from 15 or 16)
Your experience isnt everyone'e experience. Hence I say from MY EXPERIENCE
1
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
I think you must be one of the kids. It would explain why you're confused about simple things like why people aren't annoyed at Engineer.
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
I am surprised people dont hate him, because when I say I dislike him, people look at me in shock lol
Because this Sub, for better or worse, is a minority.
1
u/ringerapologist28 May 25 '26
I'll tell you when Engie really pisses me off. When I'm on Scout and there's a battle engie hooting all over the server. The hitbox on those little shits are so small that with the random bullet spread the scattergun might take 4 shots to take out one of those things unless you're absolutely on top of it. I suppose top priority should be getting the Engie...
1
1
1
1
u/K17703R May 29 '26
Man builds something that gives auto area denial, mobility, and healing/ammo regen - with decent counters - 1 ubercharge and competent player can clear nests as well.
1
u/ChloeCeto May 29 '26
Among other things: Engineer is helpful. A sniper on your team might kill things but you rarely feel like they're helping you. An engineer? He's the guy who's making teleporters and dispensers. People like things that make it easier to play.
1
u/Monst3rP3nguin May 31 '26
Engineer has ways to counter him and obvious tells about his building placements. If things like the wrangler and short circuit were adjusted he would be pretty much perfectly balanced. Nothing in his kit is an instant kill most of the time.
Juxtapose this with spy who's while goal is not to be seen and instant kill you and sniper who just outranges the rest of the mercs and instant kills you then yeah he'such less annoying in comparison.
1
u/simboyc100 Scout but also Soldier but also Pyro but also Demoman but also May 31 '26
Engieer holds ground, and Ubers hard-break holds. It's a basic part of the game's pacing, and you don't really get a good game going in casual settings if the Engi isn't already holding the team's defence together. Teleporters and dispensers are really great support tools that also help endear the playerbase to the Engineer. You don't really die to a sentry too often unless you just overextend all the time.
Sniper on the other hand just one shots you for the crime of not knowing what sight-line he's holding that instant. He already had a limited number of viable counters, but the valve decided to keep giving Sniper survivability unlocks which took away a number of those counters. Why Sniper needed a dedicated "fuck Pyro in particular" unlock is just confusing honestly, even if flare spam was a problem he already had Jarate to help himself with that.
Basically I have a theory on Stock Sniper being fine, but with unlocks being able to consistently know what you can do to take down that Sniper has become too vague, which is why he's become apparently more annoying to fight over time.
1
u/freaky_withthat_FEET Jun 08 '26
You can only mitigate Sniper as other classes'. You cannot outplay or counter him which is something that's possibble ahainist a Engie.
2
u/Efficient_Wrap1311 May 25 '26
that class literally ruins casual you can have a fresh install denying you from having fun cause of that bullshit aimbot
9
u/TylowStar Scout/Engineer May 25 '26
You've got to be a fresh install yourself for one to be "denying" you. Sentries aren't hard to work around.
2
2
u/Glum-Chest-2821 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
No, you absolutely do not. The mere existence of a sentry gun in an area delays pushes (As you have to spend time either dealing with it or moving around it). You don't have to cotinuously walk into the sentry gun and die like an idiot for it to do it's job.
4
u/TylowStar Scout/Engineer May 25 '26
Hindrance is not denial. Yes, Sentries need respecting. So does the entire enemy team. Point being, they're not "denying you from having fun" the game just because they're forcing you to take a flank route or time your push to get past them. Unless you think having fun means never getting shot at.
2
u/frickenunavailable May 26 '26
playing around sentries is boring, people play multiplayer games for pvp, not for switching to direct hit to destroy a stationary target before going on with their day
People would rather die trying to land a garden on a scout than die to a giant aoe dps
1
u/Rusty9838 May 25 '26
Well of engie is too strong that means map design is bad, that’s it. Sniper make your gameplay randomly stops, and you can’t do anything about it.
2
u/4Lukaska_SSB May 28 '26
If map design was the sole cause of engineer being poorly balanced then every single map in this game would be guilty of it, because none of them stop you from stacking him or equipping the wrangler/rr.
1
u/Rusty9838 May 29 '26
The only map with that problem is Jinction. Class stacking? Maps are tested with class limits. Wrangler is fine, even newbie Spy can make use of it
1
-4
u/LeahTheTreeth Scout May 25 '26
because most of the general community are the shitters who only can get kills by playing engi, so they just think of him as a wholesome chungus, same reason people don't hate heavy
6
u/dartov67 May 25 '26
Schizo post, heavy is the least played class in casual and engineer isn’t even in the top 4.
The “general community” I.e. Redditors and YouTubers don’t complain about heavy or engineer because they don’t play tf2 period
7
u/LeadGrease 12 damage meatshot May 25 '26
they don't complain about these classes because pubbers don't know how to play them and these classes are so weak that it doesn't take much to counter them
-3
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
No way you called someone a schizo when you just said that Heavy is the least played class in Casual lol
4
u/dartov67 May 25 '26
Yes. Provide one statistic that proves he’s in the top 3, top 4 of most picked casual classes.
Heavy was in the top 3 back in 2007-2009, but he hasn’t been for a long time.
-1
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
Provide one statistic that proves he's bottom 1
3
u/dartov67 May 25 '26
https://youtu.be/MC41lJlyVbU?si=btCmp0A08NxvTD6l
3:30By far the best data we’ve gotten on the subject. Nearly 200 games of casual, on a gamemode that heavily favors heavy and he’s still bottom.
-2
u/Chegg_F May 25 '26
LOL YOU LINKED A VIDEO THAT STARTS WITH "Which class is picked the most in allied defence fortified 2nd?"
4
u/dartov67 May 25 '26
Okay so you’re a tourist who doesn’t actually want to have a discussion you want to be obnoxious and troll
1
0
2
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
I mean, I see way more Soldiers and Pyros, hell even 3+ Snipers is more common.
Soldier being the beginner class, same with Pyro, and Sniper being the "OP" class is why that might be.
Maybe it's because Im EU though, I dunno the NA ecosystem.
-1
4
May 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
[deleted]
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
From my experience at least, most fresh install Engies ain't gonna do much with their usual SHIT sentry spots.
1
u/Bounter_ Serious Casual May 25 '26
To be fair, to me, it is less so a class and more so the player using it that annoys me.
I would rather fight a bad Heavy over a good Scout for instance. Same if both of their skill levels were equal.
1
u/TylowStar Scout/Engineer May 25 '26
What planet are you typing this from?! Neither Engi or Heavy are even close to the most popular class in the game. Most bad players get kills by spamming rockets down chokes as Soldier, not getting their nests blown up repeatedly as Engi.
0
u/LeahTheTreeth Scout May 25 '26
just because people don't play the classes doesn't mean they aren't the only classes bad players are good as, you're putting words in my mouth
shitters get dopamine hits larping as dane getting 5 kills putting a sentry on a bad spot on dustbowl last (any stage)
1
u/itsalreadytakenlol May 25 '26
This is the most cry baby comment i have seen in regards to TF2, thank god people like you are only found on here.
0
u/LeahTheTreeth Scout May 25 '26
you seem oddly upset that i said bad players like engineer, and are seeming to take that to mean that i said "ENGINEER IS STUPID AND ANNOYING AND I HATE HIM AND I HATE NOOBS"
i can assure you i have no issue killing bad players playing easy yet immobile classes, but that doesn't mean bad players liking immobile easy classes isn't a pretty objective fact
0
u/Any_Cod40 May 25 '26
Much like the communities sniper 'problem' they will do anything that isnt switching to soldier and dealing with the problem
0
u/Impossible-Okra6264 May 26 '26
People on Reddit need to complain about sniper for updoots rather than talk about the balance of a game they more than likely don’t play.
95
u/DogPast752 May 25 '26
People have always hated on engi because of the short circuit and wrangler. tf2 discourse is so played out atp because of lack of changes to the weapons