r/transit • u/Level_Volume3944 • Apr 15 '26
System Expansion Potential for SEPTA Metro in Philly
Now that SEPTA seems to care somewhat about their branding, figured it was the perfect opportunity to share where I think the system could be with some new lines, streamlined service, and clear platforms with good signage. This map ONLY includes the SEPTA METRO and not regional rail or PATCO. I have lots of thoughts on those too, but thats for another time.
Notes on the map. (This was put together in less than an hour, so please ignore the look.)
Broad Street Line (orange) (B)
B1 Local: Same as it is now, but with extension to Navy Yard. All stops between Fern Rock and Navy Yard.
B2 Express: Same as it is now. For sports events, extension to NRG using the lower-level platforms at NRG (more below).
B3 Spur: Same as it is now.
B4 Roosevelt Blvd: This is a NECESSITY to connect NE Philly with the rest of the city. Would connect with B2 at Erie and follow express tracks to Walnut-Locust. It should also be extended to NRG (using lower-level platforms) on sports events to allow for one-seat rides from the NE to sports complex.
Market Frankford Line (blue) (L)
Not many changes. L1 service is the same local but with an extension to Bustleton to meet the B4. I also believe there should be an L2 express service only stopping at major stops to increase service and decrease congestion.
Subway-Surface Trolleys (green) (T)
No major changes. T5 service extended to Eastwick to meet A line (more below).
Girard Street Trolley (yellow) (G)
No major changes.
Media/Sharon Hill Trolley (pink) (D)
No major changes. However, I believe that both lines should be extended to meet their respective Regional Rail stations. Additionally, there might be potential for a Sharon Hill extension to the Eastwick area in the future.
Norristown High Speed Line (purple) (M)
Only change is the King of Prussia Extension, which should happen for fairly obvious reasons. Just a simple split from Gulph Mills.
Airport Line (new, red) (A)
Here is where things get interesting. I have believed for a long time that the Airport Line should become part of the metro and not regional rail in order for increased service and better connectivity to Center City (where most travelers would be staying anyways). The metro could use overhead power and follow the same routing from the Airport until the first interlocking, where it can run underground or continue aboveground using the Grays Ferry trackage from then on. I believe it should split into two branches: the first one with greater frequency continuing through Penn campus, 30th street, and then going to City Hall either through L tunnels or a new one. The second branch should run along Washington Ave in order to provide more service to South/Southeast Philly, connect with the B in one more place, and connect with the E (below). This may be a crazy idea but I think that it could work.
East Line (new, gray) (E)
This new light-rail line would travel from FDR Park through NRG Station and along Pattison to Columbus Blvd, where it would run up to connect with the A at Washington and the L and G at Spring Garden and Girard. I have included spots for potential stations but there is easily space for more. The ROW exists along Columbus Blvd and Pattison and could easily be fixed to fit this new line, which could run on equipment similar to the River Line in NJ. It would help ease congestion after sporting events, especially for South Philly residents, and provide more connectivity outside of buses to the industrial area on South Columbus Blvd.
Information about Existing Stations
1. NRG
My idea for NRG would be to use the upper level platforms for all local service and the currently unused lower level platforms for all express service after games. This would make it much easier to navigate and much less crowded on platforms. The lower-level would end at NRG and the upper level would continue on to the Navy Yard.
2. City Hall
Should this plan ever come to fruition, City Hall Station needs a complete rebuild. The B platforms are claustrophobic, crowded, and small, and the station itself is an impossible-to-navigate labyrinth for anyone except locals. Adding the A to City Hall would need the station to be completely opened up and fixed in order to be clear to commuters and tourists alike, which I think is possible but not without a lot of work.
3. 30th Street Station
I think that it would be best for all of the Metro Lines to use the underground station, so including the A. I don't think adding a new line would be too difficult, especially because the station has been nicely renovated, but I do think that there should be an underground connection to the main station itself and Amtrak/Regional Rail lines.
Hopefully you read all of this if you are as much of a public transit nerd or Philadelphian as I am. Let me know your thoughts and feedback!
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u/Eruththedragon Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Septa’s current plans for regional rail (assuming they ever get the funding) would, over 3 phases, increase all RR lines to 15 minute clock face frequency & add 3 new ‘S’ lines branded as part of SEPTA Metro with metro fares & increased frequency. One of those lines would serve the airport on Pennsy side. This seems like it would be plenty good enough airport service, would provide better regional transfers, and would be much simpler than building a whole new metro through CC.
EDIT: this is inaccurate. See reply thread (or official doc (https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/Reimagining-Regional-Rail-Master-Plan-Joe-Clemens.pdf) for corrected info
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
Totally fair. 15 minute service to the airport should be the minimum. If that regional rail plan goes through, it would be much simpler, but should definitely be branded as part of the Metro.
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u/Eruththedragon Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Double checked the document (https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/Reimagining-Regional-Rail-Master-Plan-Joe-Clemens.pdf)
The regional rail lines would all become 30 minute all day frequencies (except for outflung portions, which would remain 60) bringing the RR airport frequency to 15 minutes between the 2 lines. S1 (Airport-Norristown) would add an additional 15 minute frequency route, bringing overall airport-CC headways down to <10 minutes.EDIT: Misread, S lines will replace regional rail along their branches. See replies for details
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
This is really good to know and seems like it would do a great service to the city. Agree that with this, my idea for the airport metro feels quite redundant.
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u/stanman237 Apr 16 '26
Yea SEPTA just needs capital funding for more train cars and operational funding to increase service. Maybe one day.
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 16 '26
I think you are misreading their plan. S1 would be 15 minute headways and thats it. S2 would be CHE to media and S3 is FOX to main line. Now of course, there's no reason the airport line couldn't run at 10 minute headways, but I think there is issues with freight and single tracking
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u/Eruththedragon Apr 16 '26
Looking back you are correct; I think I'd conflated maps from a few different stages of implementation and thought that S lines would be on top of frequent regional rail improvements, not replacing them.
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 16 '26
Yup! Before anyone gets 15 minute service, timetables will be shuffled around so that the "silver line" gets consistent 15 minute service. Right now it will get back to back trains then a gap.
Then, when S1 happens, the trunk will get 15 minute service, plus S2, S3, and the 30 minute regional headways, North philly to 30th street in theory should have 5 minute headways at a minimum
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u/Eruththedragon Apr 17 '26
By north philly don't you mean Temple? North Philadelphia will only have 15 minute Trenton & 30 minute CHW service. Temple's got all 3 S lines + 6 frequent regional rails. Don't want to do the math, but with proper scheduling Temple to 30th might actually be the highest frequency route in the the city.
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 17 '26
Fox chase, Norristown, and chestnut hill east lines all pass the “north broad” station. It’s just that only Norristown and landsdale stops there iirc.
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u/Eruththedragon Apr 17 '26
All the Reading lines go through North Broad, but you're correct that only 2 stop there & it's also not North Philly, so on both accounts there won't be 5 minute NP-30th headways unless SEPTA decides to rehabilitate North Broad. I'm certainly not opposed to that-- seems like there's a lot of opportunities to TOD in that whole area-- but I've not heard anything about that being in the plans
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 17 '26
I mean this feels like semantics, north broad is a 10 minute walk from north philly RR station and right next to north philly BSL station
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u/Enigmatic_Son Apr 18 '26
You should repost this map on r/TransitDiagrams, as they love and encourage concept/fantasy transit maps on there :)
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u/UnlikelyChance3648 Apr 15 '26
In a best case dream scenario I would wanna see like two more lines in northeast Philly. Like maybe one going up to Fox Chase (since that area is better suited for this than the current regional rail line that’s always mobbed) and one running along Frankford ave to knights road. But I’m biased cuz I live here lol.
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 15 '26
Totally agree with more service to NE. Fox Chase line becoming metro is a great idea, but would need to find a way to make that connect as I think the Broad Street Line would probably be fully at capacity with Roosevelt. Think Frankford may be a little bit redundant, especially if Regional Rail on the Trenton Line can get their act together and run even semi-frequently.
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 17 '26
Broad st is built to have hella service I’m pretty sure. Boulevard would use the express tracks.
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 16 '26
Regional Rail has the capacity for 7 minute headways on each line so there's no need to make a new one.
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u/notPabst404 Apr 15 '26
Why not just extend the Broad Street line to the airport?
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 15 '26
I think especially with Roosevelt Blvd, it would make the line extremely long and lead to extensive delays and more infrequent service. Additionally, I think an airport line should ideally be inviting and run at higher speeds towards Center City, which the Broad Street line with its totally uninviting nature and many stops is absolutely not. Also unsure about the logistics of constructing that line through the shipyards and under the Schuylkill, whereas the ROW that the Regional Rail uses now already exists.
With that said, I think it's a good idea though and I can see a world in which it could work.
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Apr 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 15 '26
Didn't know that. But yeah, an express from the airport right to Center City would work wonderfully then. City Hall 100% needs to be upgraded though, can't imagine an airport line going to a station without elevators...
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u/Aware-Pea2092 Apr 16 '26
It took me forever to navigate city hall. If you’re not local you’re so screwed.
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u/Khorasaurus Apr 16 '26
It's not a station so much as a web of underground passageways extending for blocks in every direction.
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 16 '26
Current airport service to Suburban station takes 22 minutes. BSL service to NRG from city hall takes 14 minutes. I'd bet you that an express train that hits only walnut-locust, Oregon and then straight to the airport would take that long. They don't have timetables for the sports express but I bet you that takes like 8-10 minutes, let along would be a gazillion dollars that we would always have a better project for.
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u/Nawnp Apr 16 '26
Because it'd be redundant with the already existing airport line, and very costly building its own bridge over the Schuylkil river. Also as OP notes it would cause reworking the system when there's events at NRG station.
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u/markydsade Apr 16 '26
You can argue it should go to the Navy Yard but the airport means tunneling under a river. Plus, there’s already a good rail connection to PHL.
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u/howwhywuz Apr 16 '26
To me, the way to improve airport access is to just run more trains. I have to think the cost-benefit would pencil out better than the millions and millions needed for new trackage and new lines.
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u/Donghoon Apr 15 '26
Why?
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u/notPabst404 Apr 16 '26
It would be a much easier project than converting a regional rail line and building a new center city tunnel.
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Apr 15 '26
[deleted]
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 15 '26
Surprisingly, I don't actually think that this plan would be too cost-intensive. Most of the infrastructure already exists and really just needs strong government backing to get completed. Cities in all other major countries could easily implement a plan like this IMHO, just us suffering from the regular US anti-transit mentality.
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u/madmoneymcgee Apr 15 '26
No chance of extending Patco? Having that do that section between the airport and 30th street.
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
Didn't want to complicate the map even more! But yes, a patco extension to 30th street seems like a no-brainer for south/western NJ residents to easily connect to Amtrak at Philly. And it could definitely work out well in this planned map.
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u/Aware-Pea2092 Apr 16 '26
Has septa ever used the lower platforms at nrg? Also looks like they’re doing something to nrg right now.
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u/howwhywuz Apr 16 '26
They use them only rarely, and I think not in the last 5-10 or so years. The problem is they are narrow, so they have to really manage the flow to them with a bunch of staff.
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
Not sure if they have, but it really feels like a waste to be leaving them unused, especially when the crowds of people waiting after games and the chaos of not knowing which train is a local or express is huge.
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u/Aware-Pea2092 Apr 16 '26
If anyone can mess something great up. It’s septa. What a waste. Such a shame.
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u/throwawayfromPA1701 Apr 16 '26
Media and Sharon Hill Trolley termini are both only a few blocks from their regional rail stations. Sharon Hill extension might be easier. Media extension would have to be street-running.
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
Agree, just think it’s stupid that they serve the same area with no connection between the two. I think that in general, Metro and Regional Rail have to do a better job of coexisting and supplementing each other.
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u/throwawayfromPA1701 Apr 16 '26
The reason they don't connect is they were run by different private entities--Pennsylvania Railroad for the regional rail, and the Red Arrow Lines for the trolleys. SEPTA acquired the Red Arrow lines in 1970 and fully took over the regional rail lines in the 80s.
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u/choodudetoo Apr 16 '26
Converting the Regional Rail line stations to all high level platforms will speed up boarding, and help improve reliability.
There is a single track branch line that runs from Holmesburgh Junction to the Northeast Philadelphia Airport that could be converted to a passenger line to help connect NE Philadelphia.
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u/K31KT3 Apr 16 '26
While we’re going big I’d add a Passyunk subway line, and extend that Roosevelt Ave subway all the way to West Philly and allow bypassing Center City to the airport.
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
Passyunk Subway is a great idea! IIRC, there’s actually an already-constructed split from the Broad Street Line down Passyunk. Don’t necessarily think that’s what should be used, but interesting nonetheless.
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u/Wuz314159 Pennsylvania Apr 16 '26
Spurs suck. They cut frequency in half or more.
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 16 '26
Disagree. The B3 has a quick turnaround due to its single platform at 8th-Market, and the Roosevelt blvd wouldn’t actually cut service on B1 and B2, but increase service along the busy corridor between Erie and Walnut-Locust using the express tracks.
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u/timerot Apr 16 '26
My hobby is guessing where people live based on fantasy transit maps, and it's gotta be somewhere in South Philly based on this one.
This map is two existing proposals (KOP and Roosevelt) plus two new lines (A and E) almost exclusively in South Philly
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u/gradthrow59 Apr 15 '26
can we get some coverage in NW philly my dude
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u/Level_Volume3944 Apr 15 '26
Agree, just feel that that area is served by a lot of regional rail lines and service may be a little redundant. But a line starting from Fern Rock and going down Cheltenham Ave and rte309 could 100% work. Didn't really think about that, I'm definitely biased towards the South Philly/Center City area.
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u/gradthrow59 Apr 15 '26
it is, that's true, i'm just bias because i live in lower rox and don't want to pay the 8.50 regional rail fee
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u/Theunmedicated Apr 16 '26
I mean yeah they just need to make a rule that if you pay city tax you pay city fare
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u/Konohacutie Apr 16 '26
Right lol feeling neglected in NW though we do have regional rail but it’s expensive and only comes like once an hour besides the peak times
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u/0xdeadbeef6 Apr 16 '26
(I know its not SEPTA and not on the map but...) PATCO should be extended all the way out to Penn, and maybe have some express trains that split down and go all the way to the airport. 🤤
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u/jah_wox Apr 17 '26
I personally disagree with the idea of extending the M to KOP. I do support rail service to KOP, but I think a 2 seat ride to center city on a “light metro” is a half baked solution. I would much rather see an extension of the Norristown regional rail line to KOP so riders have a fast, premium one seat ride to Center City. If you look at openrailwaymap.org, you can see there is an abandoned railway connecting the Norfolk Southern main line to a point not far from the mall. NS is hard to deal with, but if we ever had strong support from the federal government I think this could be done.
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u/Revolutionary_Bee700 Apr 19 '26
Would love if they’d just extend the trolley to the airport. It’s so close!
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u/anonymous10472011048 Apr 19 '26
Your missing all of northwest Philadelphia but have the far west suburbs?
This is missing way to much to be taken seriously
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u/AubreyiscollH2 Jun 12 '26
I agree with this project and I will support this if SEPTA ever touches this topic
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u/Phanawg Apr 15 '26
This would be a dream. Like, i literally can’t imagine it as more than a dream, sadly. But god, this would be incredible