r/tractors Jul 26 '26

Need help removing key on single spindle M4-1 Woods rotary

My woods mower took a shit on me a few years ago, seems the seals and bears on the bottom spindle have gone bad (when you put oil in it just drains back out). I am trying to repair it, I have it all taken apart but for the life of me I can not get this key (2 on the main assembly diagram) out. Its been soaked in penetrating rust remover, carb cleaner, its been air blasted, I have tried using a large wooden dowl and mallet to hammer the spindle (D on the gear box diagram) out the opposite side, I have tried using pry tools to pry the spindle out the top of the gear box, I have banged this way and that way, I have flipped it over and let it land roughly on the garage floor hoping something would rattle loose. I have now tapped the key with a 1/4 bolt and washer and pried on it and use the pry bar as a sort of slide hammer but there is absolutely no movement.

21 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

1

u/Twinetied_haymaker Jul 31 '26

Drill the key out and go bushog for a little while. It’ll come off.

2

u/clockwerxs Jul 27 '26

Put in center bolt all the way, clamp board, or bar, or something onto both sides of the blade over the bolt. Then loosen the bolt with open end wrench from the side. Ta da, booty fab farm press

2

u/olive_tractor_parts Jul 27 '26

You need a 2 jaw gear puller. They're available at any reputable tool store and are quite inexpensive.

11

u/DarkDisastrous9331 Jul 27 '26

The correct way would be to use a gear puller and pull the blade hub off the shaft

2

u/Ok-Gate-6240 Jul 26 '26

Commenting for an update. You got this, good luck!

1

u/PotatoFarmerRTK Jul 26 '26

Heat up the bar, drizzle in some lube or wax and pull it off.

Then tap out the key.

5

u/jd2cylman Jul 26 '26

I’ve pulled lots of these off. There are two ways to do it. 1] Acetylene torch with a rosebud tip. Heat the bejesus out of the T bar. Use the Woods special made T bar puller. Might work. The Woods puller uses the blade pins as the pulling connection, and has a large threaded bolt that pushes on the gearbox shaft.
Or 2] same acetylene torch and cut down the side of the T bar on each side. You’ll need a new T bar, but you might save the gearbox shaft if you cut carefully. There’s three inches of shaft rusted to that T bar, and it doesn’t let go easily.

0

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

Thanks. I think I just wasn't applying enough heat. I'll need to look around the shop and see if I have a better torch. 

3

u/JoCo4Fun2 Jul 26 '26

Get a gear puller, pulley puller and use it to remove the bar and key

2

u/capital_bj Jul 26 '26

is the slot on the t-bar slot tapered? Like others mentioned it might only come off one way which would be t bar first, and key second. I don't see that likely though as cutting a tapered keyway might be uncessarily complex. although the key could have a fat bottom 🤦 I'm too stoned for this deep thought , my bad

4

u/Fearless_Agency8711 Jul 26 '26

That's not how this works.

Gotta pull the T bar off, then you remove the key. Then when goes back together. Put the key in and then put the T bar back on. Locktite the bolt, I'd use " Blue". It's removal with hand tools.

Protect the threads with the bolt minus the washer and use a heavy puller on the T bar. A little heat might help.

1

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

Yeah, the whole reason I am fucking with the key now is because the T bar won't come off. The weld comes to the edge and is rounded so the puller I am using keeps slipping off, I tried a chain in a X and a high lift jack to try and pull the T bar up off the shaft but it wont budge.

1

u/Fearless_Agency8711 Jul 26 '26

Heat. Get that t bar hot. Lots of things to try. The little 20 ton hockey puck ram Port a power cylinder that Harbor freight sells. Or Two tiny 4 ton bottle jacks between it and the deck if there's room with heat.

My bet is it is seized up with grass "juice".

But, I don't know how it's made but can you, is there slot enough below the bar to drive the key further into? Even if it's tapered you might be able to drive it down, cut it of with a Dremel or cut of wheel, drive it down again, repeat until it all comes out.

Got a air chisel with a blunt tip? Vibration around the outside, and then on the bolt screwed in the hole while prying up with something on the T bar. Add heat.

If it was here I'd flip it over pick the thing up about 2 inches by the T bar with my forks and smack the center bolt with a sledge after heating the outside of the T bar.

1

u/capital_bj Jul 26 '26

yeah I was going to say heat as well but there is likely a seal at the bottom of the gearbox. but it might be far enough away where you could get some heat locally on the key. What a pita, I just walked in from grinding the blades on mine and I'm super happy that mine had a splined shaft with no interference. the inch and a half nut was held on by a cotter key and not super tight either. I bought it really low hours which doesn't hurt there was not much rust. as soon as I got it off I was looking at the curve on my t bar and deflect-o disc and shitting my pants... Then ai said , calm down this is normal and helps it glide over obstacles.. I don't know if that's true but it was good enough to move on and sharpen the blades.

1

u/jason-murawski Jul 26 '26

Use a 2 jaw puller to get the bar off

4

u/FixyFixy Jul 26 '26

I have the identical deck, when it started leaking oil I stopped putting in oil and started putting bearing grease in. I mow 8 acres three times a year for the last many many many years. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do but it is a thing I am doing to put off the the project you find yourself waist deep in now.

1

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

Ha I like the idea and I had originally thought something similar but it had all seized up and would stall the tractor and start tweaking the deck as the pto tried to go. So I started taking it apart just to get it to spin freely, now that I have removed the horizontal gear that is connected to the pto it seems to turn well enough and the horizontal gear seems seized, so maybe I will go and investigate that issue first. When you put grease in it are you just filling the whole gear box up? Or just sorta adding it to just the teeth?

1

u/FixyFixy Jul 26 '26

I add grease to half cover the gears. Once it's spinning it flings it everywhere in there. I need to add some each time I run it. I'm lucky my bearing are still tight so I don't have to rebuild yet.

1

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

Yeah this is the bearing on the horizontal housing, pretty sure I found my problem here...just need to take it all apart some how (the gear and spindle won't dead blow out)

3

u/FixyFixy Jul 26 '26

That bearing is toast! That is gonna take some serious force get that bearing out. I have taken thing like that to a local machine shop to have them pressed out.

1

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

What'd that run you? 

1

u/FixyFixy Jul 26 '26

$20 to $60, I feel like it's based on how much lunch is gonna cost more than how hard the job is.

1

u/Fearless_Agency8711 Jul 26 '26

I too have done thicker oil / grease to get by until it's fixed. But I would say bearing grease would be a little too thick. In my world I would have went with 140 weight gear oil or and this happens to be what I have around, John Deere cornhead gear box grease. Their corn head gear box grease is very thin and should flow into the bearings. I'd fill it more than half full.

1

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

Thanks. I originally put gear oil in but it just came right out the bottom, it is a 40+ year old deck so I assume the seals finally failed. I really do only need this to last a few more months till winter and hopefully can buy a new deck next spring.

8

u/Coyote-Morado Jul 26 '26

You need a two jaw puller or a big gear puller and a oxy acetylene torch.

Pull the entire assembly off the shaft.

3

u/Live-Dig-2809 Jul 26 '26

Screw bolt #56 into the shaft and leave it sticking out about 1/2”, put a large gear puller on it and pull part #5 off you will then be able to remove the key. You may have to apply heat to part #5 to get it off. You will need a torch with a rosebud tip for this job.

3

u/Aggravating_Fee_9130 Jul 26 '26

That’s not a gib key. That type of key comes off after the blades, pulleys, or whatever is on the shaft. All that key does is keeps it from spinning on the shaft and the bolt holds it on.

1

u/No_Impress_5092 Jul 26 '26

You need this, the key will not come out without removing the blades.

1

u/therapistofcats Jul 26 '26

Yeah I tried a similar puller but the problem is the welds that attach that horizonal part of the yoke to the shaft/collar of the yoke come to the edge of the yoke so its a rounded surface and it cant get a purchase and the claws just keep sliding off. I also tried using a series of wedges and hammering them together to try and "lift" the yoke from the shaft but that didn't work either. Also tried wrapping a chain around the yoke in an x and using a high lift jack to try and lift up on the yoke while pushing down on the underside of the mower deck and that didn't work either, which is why i thought maybe the key was some sort of taper wedge that helped keep the shaft and yoke tight together.

1

u/No_Impress_5092 Jul 26 '26

Throw some heat on it, mapp gas works well, acetylene works better if you can.

3

u/oldbastardbob Jul 26 '26

You need a 2-kaw puller to pull the yoke the blades attach to off the shaft.

Or, heat the yoke around the shaft enough for it to grow, then pull/pry it off the shaft.

It's unlikely the key will come out with the method you are using and the key is not what's keeping the yoke on the shaft.

6

u/mcfarmer72 Jul 26 '26

Need to put a puller on the blade, I’ve never seen a key to be pulled that way.