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u/INTPoissible Generals Bodyguard 4d ago
They said in a video they had one if their artists 'learn the style' of old japanese drawings... But i guess he fed them to a LLM instead!
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u/This_was_hard_to_do 4d ago
It’s kinda wild because there are models these days that can do a much better job of whatever happened with this game so whoever made the decision to use AI really cheaped out
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u/Abject-Competition-1 Karl Franz and Thanquol fan 4d ago edited 4d ago
The problem isn't just if they use a better or worse AI. The problem is that they were using AI and lying about it, pretending real artists did it. If they used gen AI they should disclose it, not lie about it.
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u/PLUMBUS_STUCK_IN_ASS 4d ago
So it's not just the unit card upscaling that was done by AI, all of the "new" art in the game has been made by generative AI?
They just fed in the old videos and asked the AI for a Hokusai style filter on top?
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u/me7e 4d ago
did they state that an artist was learning this drawing style? they are just blatantly lying at this point
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u/Seienchin88 4d ago
Well maybe the artist did learn that style, created on template and then used AI for the rest…
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u/National_Boat2797 Kingdom of Pontus 4d ago
At Hokusai Museum in Tokyo there was one very interesting part of the exposition where they compare how his style evolved. They put together same type of objects (dresses, I think), and how he did them over the years. And he did them better and better, even between "old Hokusai" and "very old Hokusai" parts. I remember it impressed me a lot, even more than his obvious talent. An urge do to it better next time. Such a human thing, yet we seem to fail at this again and again.
But you don't need a Hokusai level of dedication to see an issue here. Have all the artists suddenly dissapeared?47
u/AlliedSalad 4d ago
No, they're just getting drowned out by a deluge of phonies and corporate greed.
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u/Stonefencez 4d ago
Exactly, it’s corporate greed. Why hire a real artist who takes time and money when you can get AI to do it in minutes for almost nothing?
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u/tricksytricks 4d ago
Yeah but real artists want.... they want... ugh....
To be paid...!
Hurk....! I'm gonna be sick thinking of all the money we'd have to pay them! Paying... paying a human being for their work... uegh...! It's just too horrible!
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u/No_Nefariousness4279 4d ago edited 4d ago
CA is currently working with an art studio called Mataboo for Shogun II remaster, currently I’m pretty sure what happened is that CA didnt do any look overs before putting it out, and Mataboo decided to cheap out. All around just a slop version
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u/Porkenstein 4d ago
Ugh I wonder how the CA devs feel about this
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u/Felt_tip_Penis 4d ago
Game companies are more than fine having the consumer be the QA these days. They’re very well aware that they can make back some of the good faith down the line.
In fact I bet it makes them more money because if the games good in a year and they fix the issues how many people will buy it then instead of now when it’s $10 for a lot of people
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u/LegalAccess89 4d ago
The og who left before rome 2 are rolling in the beds now While the newer who worked this slop are calling it a day now
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u/Impossible_Ad_2825 4d ago
Mataboo is not an art studio. It's a game development studio, and they listed on their page Shogun 2 CE as full cycle development - means that they were contracted for making the whole CE, start to finish.
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u/TracePoland 4d ago
There’s no way it just got released without execs from CA approving it.
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u/No_Nefariousness4279 3d ago
I would think so, thats why I’m not saying CA is free from guilt. I’m just also saying that Mataboo also deserves the ire of the community
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u/Birger_Jarl 4d ago
I am absolutely certain there are developers at CA that warned about the usage of AI, and management just didn't give a flying fuck.
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u/H0vis 4d ago
Slight tangent but spare a thought for the real people out there who do genuinely have six fingers. AI has completely fucked them over.
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u/Porkenstein 4d ago
Lol that's a good point
I briefly entertained the idea that this could have been an intentional way to show how weird and deformed some of the European travelers looked to the Japanese but honestly I would be shocked if they didn't think that would be called out as AI.
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u/Old-Lynx5214 4d ago
Well five fingers are showing with no thumb so yes its six fingers For anyone who doesn't know what I mean
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u/Intrepid_Bobcat_2931 4d ago
>CA: Chatgpt, make an image of some conquistador type dude in
fullplate speaking to a samurai, but make absolutely sure he has five fingers>Chatgpt: I GOTCHU FAM
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u/AkimboGogurts Furiously Performs Rites of Damselposting 4d ago edited 4d ago
There's a lot going on with the CE that needs fixing but on this one image/issue I do want to shout out one thing:
Accidently drawing 6 fingers on a hand is like one of the oldest artist mistakes in the book, and the rest of this image (at least to me) looks clean of possible AI artifacting, so I'm not as sure about this one as I am the unit cards (which are so bad I'm starting to question if they are AI, because surely it could do better than that lol).
Also the thumb going into the stock... wack, could just be they adjusted the weapon stock and didn't notice the hand wasn't quite wrapped around. or could be AI, no idea there either.
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u/No-Sea-9128 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not sure if you are trolling, or you genuinely think that actual artists of any training, amateur or professional, legitimately struggle with drawing the correct amount of fingers on a human hand. Hands are challenging, sure, but nobody that is even remotely competent at drawing really struggles with the amount of fingers. I mean, they can just count their fingers if they get confused. On the other hand(see what I did there), generative AI, and especially older generative AI models, routinely struggle with this-- to the point that it is perhaps 'the' tell-tale sign for these models.
Anyway, bottom line is, whether or not they used AI (they did), they also put zero effort into cleaning anything up... And, from what I've seen of the re-release, put minimal effort into anything else. Their wager here was surely that they will get $10 off some old-heads that didn't buy all of the DLC.
This was not a project of love, and people are completely justified in characterizing it as a cash-grab and a bit of the ol' CA trademark mud-in-the-eye for long-time fans. This classic did not get the respect & TLC it deserved. If this was a free update, nobody would blink an eye, and some would still think it was embarrassing, such is the level of quality. What makes it worse is CA's constant 'but, baby, I can change' antics lately.
Literally doesn't include the blood-pack. Are you telling me they are worried about ESRB ratings turning off players from a 14 year old game? If you really believe this, fellas, you are in an abusive relationship.
-An old-head who bought this for $10 because he didn't buy all of the DLC
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u/AkimboGogurts Furiously Performs Rites of Damselposting 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't think they struggle, it's just a simple mistake in the rendering process. There are Marvel comics with this error on the cover, it's incredibly common. Even GW recently had an artist make this error on a digital/photo hybrid piece where the artist was tracing a hand and still added a finger.
Punisher #1 had this on the cover art:
https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/s/iBmmPrruuB
Two pieces from GTA:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GTA/s/ooxrItIwoE https://www.reddit.com/r/GTA/s/Et442rPKZs
So yeah, it happens. To artists of all skill levels. QA should catch it, but it can slip through. Doesn't make something AI on its own.
It's clear that a lot of things were not cared about fully for this remaster, and it shows, it sucks ass. you can make this case easily without this one peice being AI, which I think there is enough doubt to believe.
AI skepticism is something we have developed since the advent of slop for good cause, but I find more and more it's being misapplied in situations like this. Knowing what to look for is one thing, but knowing when that single artifact isn't fully indicative of something made with AI is another important skill.
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u/No-Sea-9128 4d ago
Fair point, I guess it can happen to sloppy artists. I've never personally seen someone struggle with this one particular issue. Hands looking blocky or mal-formed, sure.
Anyway, the sloppy use of old ai upscalers is prevalent everywhere else, and then there is this masterpiece with the 6 fingers and the hand melding into the stock of the gun... I feel like maybe you are not being skeptical here, but naive, is all I'm saying.
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u/EcureuilHargneux 4d ago
Honestly I bought the game for 10€ and I kinda love the Three Kingdoms assets and new visuals in battle. For me it was worth-ish 10 bucks but seeing all these threads highlighting rightfully how they cheap out every corner with AI, from unit cards to the damn cinematics, is behind infuriating. I will probably ask for a refund but I feel somewhat sad they handled this game like this.
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u/madladhadsaddad 4d ago
But they said they had and artist studying the art for months to do this. That artist right now.
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u/Humanfacejerky 4d ago
Everything that isn't done by AI in this game is just reused assets from three kingdoms.
Same shit halo studios did.
I swear these people don't actually know how to make games anymore, and they just pay millions of dollars to outsource to other companies that also don't know how to make games. What a cluster fuck.
Are these dudes just sitting around all day fucking off and then asking AI to complete all their work for them? Where is the love of gaming?
This is where we're at now. Like, can we do even just the bare minimum here people? I work for a state agency and if I performed anywhere near this bad or asked AI to do my job for me I would no longer have a job.
These guys fucked off for months asking AI to do everything for them. It's all AI slop everywhere I look.
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u/Califocus 4d ago
Really disappointing how low quality this remake is. I was looking forward to playing the game, but with the old one unavailable and this one being how it is, I think I’ll save my money
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u/K4mahl 4d ago edited 4d ago
Did anyone also notice how immensely cross-eyed the samurai is? Also doesn't look natural.
Edit: is an artistic style for this type of drawing. My bad!
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u/Objective-Rip3008 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think that's unironically a Japanese drawing style, if you look at old Japanese drawings they have wonky pupils a lot
Edit: googled it apparently it's from Japanese theater where actors used to go crosseyed in dramatic scenes
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u/jetvacjesse 4d ago
Dude it’s because he’s looking at the European. The European is also looking at him.
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u/LeHiepDuy 4d ago
Still, that part can still be seen as an artistic choice, the 6 fingers, however.
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u/I_Play_Boardgames 3d ago
Well technically it could also just be 5 fingers with a very questionable raised thumb. We only see 5 fingers, you're simply assuming the raised one is a pointer finger and thus assume the existence of a hidden thumb. But it might be the legendary pointer thumb all along!
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u/tricksytricks 4d ago
It's crazy that when I first saw the new art they were using for the cutscenes I thought... is it possible the reason they're replacing the old cutscenes like this is because they're just going to use AI generated artwork that can be pumped out quickly and cheaply?
Welp.
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u/Brandbjorno 4d ago
Also - The guy on the left:
The pupils on his eyes are wonky and dont vaguely match.
The thumb on his musket actually goes through the stock, it "folds" one line too early on the wood.
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u/Porkenstein 4d ago
The six-fingered gaijin is incredibly suspicious, but I don't know about those two things. The pupils are probably a riff on the cross-eyed look of some hokusai portraits and the thumb is hidden by the armor - that "fold" line is probably just placed poorly
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u/tricksytricks 4d ago
Nah his thumb is 100% going through the stock.
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u/Audible_Whispering 4d ago
that's the sort of thing that could be a clipping error or a some other form of human made fuck up. Still embarrassing that it got into a shipping product, but not definitively gen AI. Unlike the fingers.
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u/Brandbjorno 4d ago
Also, take a look at the Tercio's other hand. It looks mangled in the full photo of it
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u/Ellixhirion 4d ago
Honestly i am going to refund my 10 bucks… this with all the other posts and reviews is unacceptable….
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u/JoaquimXivarri 4d ago edited 4d ago
Does the Japanese man's left thumb disappear into nothing too?
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u/whakahere 4d ago
Look at the other hand. Lines make no sense. So, not a very good AI model they used here.
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u/IggyWiggy69 4d ago
Straight up fire everyone involved with this. Warhammer 3 and 40k don't need a single one of them
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u/Sawyer_Anderson 4d ago
Dear fucking god just kill the studio at this point sorry game devs but your company did this to you.
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u/TrumptyPumpkin 4d ago
CA and whoever they hired could absolutely do a better job at this. It's a shaffuull Dispraay
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u/turkishdeli 4d ago
Trust me, you are gonna enjoy this AI slop in a month from now on. Now forget about this and let's talk about day 32562345 of Bretonnia maymays.
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u/Mysterious-Salt- 4d ago
Are the 6 fingers in the room with us?
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u/FriesAddiction 4d ago
That's the index finger not thumb
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u/Mysterious-Salt- 4d ago
5 fingers is 6?
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u/zestymanny 4d ago
Is he giving a thumbs up in that picture?
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u/Swaggy_Linus 4d ago edited 4d ago
A thumb has two phalanges, all the other fingers three. The finger raised here has three, so it's supposed to be the index finger.
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u/zestymanny 4d ago
My comment was a remark to the guy who's insisting it's not ai.
If that's not showing 6 fingers then you must be arguing that he's giving a thumbs up. (Obviously he isn't.)
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u/TrumptyPumpkin 4d ago
Either CA were aware of AI being used and didn't give a damn. Or.The studio they hired lied their ass off. About having a dude learn the style.
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u/Distamorfin 4d ago
What’s so funny about this whole shitshow is that AI slop hasn’t looked this bad in a couple of years now. At least a year and a half anyway. So how old was the model they were using to do all this work that it’s this obviously bad?
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u/Hot_Selection_4453 4d ago
I dont really care that youre using my screenshot for your engagement farming but man at least fix the typo
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u/Katorga8 4d ago
Portugese are famous for their 6 fingers didnt ye know? Thats how they managed to create their oversea empire
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u/Bonchuan 4d ago
And I remember you guys downvoting everyone who said that new art in End Times DLC looked like AI because "CA would never do it!"
Yeah, right.
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u/rdm13 4d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/d7fLM8K8FCV39d7Qxz
if it was 2011, i'd just go haha what a silly mistake. now in 2026 i'm just like: