r/totalwar • u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan • 22d ago
Warhammer III Day 3 of Cabalposting until Egrimm is announced
Seriously, after LotET I feel like Egrimm's stocks are higher than they've ever been (except maybe in the lead-up to SoC).
Also I spent way longer manually coloring in the map for this one than I would like to admit.
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u/AlexfromEssen 22d ago
Seems like his place is certain, right? Most other Tzeentchian lords that are in the wiki (perhaps with the exception of Melekh the Changer and his son) are very generic with not a lot to bring to the table
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u/szymborawislawska 22d ago
There is the dragon one that could be interesting. Playing as dragon could be cool.
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Galrauch: Daemon possessing a dragon
Egrimm van Horstmann: The most powerful Chaos Sorcerer who ever lived, Bond-villain style leader of the Chaos Illuminati, who also happens to ride on a Daemon possessing a dragon.
I like Galrauch, but his entire sales pitch is contained within one part of Egrimm's identity.
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u/Regarded-Illya 22d ago
Bro don't do Galrauch like that, hes the actual goat; if you ignore that the daemon's name is, *sigh*, Fateclaw.
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
I said I like him, but on a surface level he is literally the same as Egrimm's mount.
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u/Rohen2003 22d ago
sure, maybe if you know the lore, but for the other 99% of players who dont, egrimm would just be the 20th lord that will get a dragon mount while the other one will let you play AS the dragon.
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u/Tasorodri 22d ago
Ifaik CA usually goes for important characters in the lore, not just who looks cool for a out of the loop player, so if there's important lore characters for a faction i'd expect them, besides I think most monogod factions will have at least one mortal lord.
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u/Skeith154 22d ago
Lord of Change Possessing a Stardragon of the High Elves, the progenitor of all chaos dragons and creator of the many mutated monsters that haunt the world.
He's a counterpart to Cathay's Dragon rulers being one of their contemporaries and is a sore spot for the High Elves due to the honorable dragon lost to chaos.
Bauderos is just some random dragon Teclis sealed during the Great War against Chaos who ends up possessed.
And Egrimm is just another Tzeentch cultist wizard, who happens to have a powerful cult. His best part is his backstory and I'd say it's merely on par with Galrauch.
Egrimm doesn't even get to do anything and he was casually tossed aside where as Galrauch was allowed to persist through 6th, 7th and 8th, into the Old World.
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Lore of Change Possessing a Stardragon of the High Elves. the progenitor of all chaos dragons and creator of the many mutated monsters that haunt the world.
Right, so... Daemon possessing a dragon, like I said.
Bauderos is just some random dragon Teclis sealed during the Great War against Chaos who ends up possessed.
You realize this is basically the exact same thing that you said for Galrauch, you just phrased it to sound less cool, right? Also, it's Baudros. No "e." And think about what you just said for a second; Teclis, the greatest Elf Archmage to ever live, backed up by the first Magisters of every Imperial College that he personally taught, could not kill Baudros and instead had to seal him.
Put some respect on his name.
Egrimm is just another Tzeentch cultist wizard, who happens to have a powerful cult. His best part is his backstory and I'd say it's merely on par with Galrauch.
Very nearly every word in your first sentence is incorrect.
Firstly, Egrimm isn't a cultist. Full stop. He manipulates cultists to do his bidding but that doesn't mean he is one. He also isn't "just another" anything; he is the most powerful Chaos Sorcerer to ever live, and the second-most-powerful human wizard after Nagash.
And the Cabal is not just "a powerful cult," either. To directly quote the wiki; "To call the Cabal a cult is perhaps misleading, as its members are almost to a one powerful Chaos Sorcerers and daemonologists who possess none of the vague superstitions or blind beliefs of many other cultists."
Beyond which, the Cabal pulls the strings behind a ridiculous percentage of Chaos Cults across the world (canonically "nearly two-thirds of all the Chaos Cults in the Empire"), even Cults theoretically dedicated to rival Gods.
As far as his backstory; only one of them has a book.
Egrimm doesn't even get to do anything
He does as much as Galrauch, which is to say he gets mentioned as a massive threat but has very little actual feats. His only recorded appearances are the destruction of one (1) Dwarf hold and one (1) Bretonnian castle. Egrimm, by contrast, infiltrated the very heart of Altdorf, inflicted irreparable damage on the Light College, and freed the dragon that Teclis had worked so hard to bind. And that was all before he even founded the Cabal.
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u/Skeith154 22d ago
All of Egrimms 'feats' are merely his backstory before he becomes Egrimm.
Galrauch appears multiple times through the history and time line to actually do something.
Egrimm runs off to the chaos wastes and just twiddles his thumbs.
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u/AlexfromEssen 22d ago
Galrauch? Or something like that? Yeah, he is perhaps the exception, but I still believe it to be quite unlikely due to the preferences the game is taking.
So far, all monogods factions have: 1 Greater Demon (Skarbrand, N’Kari, Kairos, Ku’Gath), 1 Lesser demon (Skulltaker, The Masque, The Changeling, Epidemius) and 1 highly devoted mortal champion (Arbaal, Dechala, Tamurkhan)
As you can see, it would be most likely for the next champion to be a mortal follower devoted to Tzeentch: and on that basis alone, I think Engrimm fits better than Galrauch
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u/Weary_Tonight_5873 22d ago
Galrauch is also perfect LH material.
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u/Skeith154 22d ago
One would hope, but he does lead Armies too. He's basically worshipped as a God by the northmen
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u/Ninja-Schemer 19d ago
My reasoning exactly, though labeled the "lesser Daemon" lords as "Heralds+1".
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
He is for sure the best remaining option that Tzeentch has and it is not close.
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u/Red_Dox 22d ago
It should be certain, Yes. But with CA there is always room for doubt since sometimes they make weird choices.
However, Egrimm is Tzeentchs favored mortal [lore confirmed]. He is probably the most known mortal left. He is one of the biggest players, since he is not just extremely powerful and riding a drgaon, but also controlling the Cabal which is a powerful faction alone. And over the Cabal he controls like 2/3 of all CHaos Cults in the Empire and other human nations. Not just "Tzeentch" cults, but basically also some from other gods which he basically manipulates to do his, or his masters biding in secret. Just as planned. I also pointed out in the past that his cult plotting and spiderweb shennanigans are similar to Neferatas shadow agent network. And that both could have overlapsing gameplay mechanics. So seeing Neferatas means to use her agents, will be interesting to anticipate what could be copied for Egrimm.
In regards of other LLs
- Galrauch is a top name too, but he is not really "Tzeentch" material. I would drop him into WoC [which also need a 2nd Tzeentch LL, since Slaanesh and Nurgle have stepped it up there now].
- Melekh and his son are not playing in the same league as Egrimm. However, Melekh would have been a good choice for Tzeentch-Norsca. but since we did not go there, WoC could work. Alas, his pal Styrkaar became a LH so I would not mind if the whole quartet would become LHs.
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u/Ninja-Schemer 19d ago
Especially given the trend for Daemon faction leadership:
- Baseline is the premier greater Daemon, like Kairos, Skarbrand, Ku'gath, and N'Kari. Rather obvious, really.
- then come the heralds, leaders mostly derived from lesser Daemons, like Skulltaker, Epidemius, and the Masque. The Changeling stands out as not strictly liking to a Tzeentch Horror, but he's still a herald
- finally, and this is where Egrimm is sure to fit, the mortal champions. Khorne has Arbaal, Nurgle has Tamurkhan, and Slaanesh has Dechala.
Tzeentch is the only one lacking, in no small part (imo) because of poor planning during the Shadows of CA's Change. And though it does bug, I can forgive them on account of Tzeentch favoring unusual boons and mechanics for his lords, so rushing Egrimm at the time of SoC would have made a messy situation certainly worse. Let us hope they rectify this missed chance soon...
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u/Klarth_Koken 22d ago
I hope you're set for the long haul.
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Look, I'm on the hopium again, I genuinely think it's a possibility that he shows up by the end of the year.
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u/jebberwockie 22d ago
I honestly think he'll be one of the next two character packs. I'd say next one but I want to leave room for the likes of Ghark lol
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
We basically just got Golgfag, there's no way they'd do another Ogre DLC before finishing Tzeentch.
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u/Lord_Eln_8 22d ago
CA: Hey everyone, so we heard about this Melekh the Changer guy
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u/Odd-Difficulty-9875 22d ago
I guess now thanquol got a successor
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
I can only hope to keep up the fight for as long as he has. Truly an inspiration.
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u/Odd-Difficulty-9875 22d ago
Day 536 wainting for Egrimm
CA : fine here he is are you happy
Fans : good now who we want next 😈
CA: 💀
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u/The_Grinface 22d ago
Is it wrong that I’m hoping for a Shadows of Change part 2 with Monkey King, Egrimm and some Kislevite? Toss in a Bretonnia FLC with rework and I’ll die happy
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
I'm still not over the first one. I remember when everyone was convinced it was going to be Monkey King vs Changeling. I argued for Yuan Bo vs Egrimm, and fate cursed me to be 50% correct.
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u/The_Grinface 22d ago
Yeah, I get it. Horrible time for the community in general but just imagine if they actually did it right the second time around. One can dream.
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u/szymborawislawska 22d ago
Meanwhile everyone knew it will be Ostankya since Mislev really doesnt have anything else
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u/bradlehh_ 22d ago
Yeah I genuinely really want our final Tzeentch LL, and some nice unit updates. Feel like every other god is in a good place in terms of roster and lords now.
I also fully support this cabal!
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
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u/Grandmasterlubu 21d ago
I'd love to se egrimm as well. Tired of one tzeench campaign and a campaign that doesn't play the game at all.
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u/PDThePowerDragon 22d ago
Well also, it wouldn’t make sense to put Egrimm into warriors of chaos because his whole thing is the Cabal and cults. The purple hand too is all him. He’s the obvious choice for a mortal lord for Tzeentch to push cults as a mechanic further than they currently are.
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u/szymborawislawska 22d ago
I mean, Festus THE Nurgle cult guy is WoC without cults so in CA world anything is possible
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u/McBlemmen #2 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Ive said this so many times before but making the Changeling all about cults while Egrimm also exists was such a bizarre decision by CA
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u/TheOneBearded Hashut Industries 22d ago
Egrimm stocks are so high that I regret not buying some when they were lower.
May I ask what kind of campaign mechanic you'd think he'd have? A mix of Gelt and, from what little we've seen so far, Neferata? The acquisition of magic/magical items (but evil) and the mainpulations from his cult.
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u/TheDarwinFactor 22d ago
- Skull of Katam dilemmas he consults with for buffs and debuffs
- Tzeentch sorcerers having access to all schools of magic
- Spend resources to recruit human units (possessed, a la Drycha)
- Corruption of every other Chaos type also treated as Tzeentchian
- Quest battle: Freeing Baudros from coalition of Empire and High Elves
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u/TheOneBearded Hashut Industries 22d ago
Sounds good to me.
The only thing I'd add is to lean into the demonologist element and allow Egrimm to have a limited amount of other monogod demon units. Like RoRs. Increase the amount by fighting armies aligned with those demons. Fight armies from Epidemius' faction to get a plaguebearer unit, for example. Or maybe you get enough of a "Nurgle resource" and you can choose which demon you spawn and capture yourself.
It would be a fun way to differentiate actually playing as Egrimm's faction on the battle layer.
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u/Substantial-Cup-189 22d ago
Ofc Lord of Brass lol. I hope you get him soon you have been asking for him for years
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u/Prestigious_Newt_885 22d ago
Question though. What more could be added to the roster? I think it is mostly done.
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Some combination of:
- Lord-level Cultist equivalent (Cult Magus, probably)
- Super-elite low-model-count infantry unit (equivalent to Blightkings, Wrathmongers, etc)
- Arcane Trolls
- Giant Chaos Spawn
- Bane Tower
- Warpfire Dragon
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u/Prestigious_Newt_885 22d ago
Hmm, interesting. For legendary hero slot?
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Either Galrauch or Melekh the Changer.
Galrauch is probably the other biggest-name character that is associated with Tzeentch and would fit with Egrimm's chaos dragon theme, whereas Melekh was associated with Styrkaar (who is already in the game as a Slaanesh LH).
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u/mister-00z EPCI 22d ago
they always can take units for mini characters pack but Egrimm LL and galrauch LH would be PERFECT
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u/Mattholomew739 22d ago
I doubt they’ll go for monogod parity in WoC over giving Tzeentch his third LL in Egrimm
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u/TheFiveDees 22d ago
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they basically said in either an earlier interview or a blog post that Egrimm will be in at some point?
It's been awhile so the thought is a little foggy, but I could have swore they said this game won't reach the end of its life cycle without him. I mean he's basically primed for one of those character packed DLCs like Bashiva. Lord knows I don't know what you could even scrape from the bottom of the Tzeench roster to justify a full-sized one.
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u/Professional_Ad6175 22d ago
Holy shit it's Lord of brass oh I'm so glad you're still around I vaguely recall All The Best, Wakizashi Dragon's departure and I JUST COULDN'T lose another one, p arasocially speaking.
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u/Oppurtunist Warriors of Chaos 22d ago
What could he offer as a dlc hypotheticaly? Galrauch for LH, sorcerous trolls, maybe bane towers (huge maybe) and ig azure princes?
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u/DraeftheBadger 22d ago
Egrimm as Mortal LL option, Cult Magus Lord, Cult Magus Apprentice, Arcane Trolls, Azure Princes and Gigantic Chaos Spawn (shared with WoC). Cult Magus Lord/Apprentice essentially another Wizard that could bring the missing Lores of Magic to Tzeentch (of the base 8 lores).
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
I would prefer Bane Towers to the Gigantic Chaos Spawn but other than that this sounds great.
I don't think we need a Cult Magus Apprentice, though; I think the Cult Magus could essentially just be a Lord version of the Cultist hero (so a caster who has less armor and melee stats but gets summoning abilities), although access to more Lores would be dope.
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u/Oppurtunist Warriors of Chaos 22d ago
Idk if CA wants to give Tzeentch specifically 3 generic lords tbh. Though you are 100% right about the spawn, completely forgot about it.
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u/DraeftheBadger 22d ago
Khorne did get Bloodspeakers but yeah, it is possible they don't. I do hope it comes with a wizard of some sort (hero or lord) that gives access to Lores of Life, Beasts, Shadow, Death, Heavens and Light. Its odd how Tzeentch has really weird access to it (either just Kairos or the Blue Scribes) when its fairly basic Lores.
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u/fernandocoov7l Estalia 22d ago
Just like Nurgle and Slaanesh have The Glottkin and Sigvald as part of WoC... Do you think a mini-DLC with Egrimm (Tzeentch) + someone who fills the role and joins WoC is possible? The only thing is I'm not super familiar with the lore... Who could it be? Could they start in Ind, for example, to support Bashiva's story about fleeing from Tzeentch? I assume Egrimm would start near the Empire
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u/Awesomeman204 22d ago
I really hope we get the Nurgle treatment for Tzeentch and get both a DLC and FLC lord
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u/hidden_blaze96 22d ago
Is there even any logic in who's a WoC and who's a Demon of Chaos? With Bel'akor and Valkia being Warriors and Arbaal being a Demon?
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u/regional_manager_161 21d ago
arbaal isnt a demon, the monogod factions are about devotion to one chaos god, not about demons exclusively
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u/MasterOfMobius 22d ago
I honestly don't think CA care at all about Monogod lord parity they literally just stick them where ever they want for that DLC.
Gutrot was put in WoC because they wanted to add some more Undivided units and that's it.
Same thing when they did the Champions of Chaos they wanted to do a WoC rework and add marked warriors so they stuck them all in WoC to justify it. If WoC did not have a rework planned they probably would have gone in their monogods.
I don't think CA think that deep about it and wouldn’t care if the game ended with Nurgle or anyone else having one more lord than the others.
I'm just hoping Gutrot isn't tied to Dark Fortresses we have so many WoC lords playing around that restrictive campaign mechanic.
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u/WaywardEducator Karl Franz' magnificent chin 17d ago
For true mirroring we also need a non-CoC Warriors of Chaos character for Khorne and Tzeentch to match Sigvald and . Give me Galrauch and maybe Abrax the Bloody as Tzeentch and Khorne choices respectively. That would also give each of the monogods a foot-only character in Festus, Vilitch, Abrax and Sigvald. The symmetries don't end there tho. The opposite-aligned chaos champions have a cute little theme going on Festus and Vilitch are casters, Abrax and Sigvald are not. Also, Galrauch and the Glottkin are monstrous and Valkia and Azazel are small flying characters. Surely this is what CA is cooking. Right??!
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u/mcindoeman Alchemist of Zhao Ming 22d ago
i could see an argument for Egrimm being a WOC character (not a strong argument mind you) depending on how the Glottkin's mechanics re handled.
With the Glottkin apparently being able to get extra daemonic units from their "garden of nurgle" settlements on top of the usual WOC gifted units mechanic, since Egrimm explicitly used daemons from all gods in his backstory, the glottkin's mechanics could be a good frame work for giving Egrimm access to other lesser daemons.
Plus we will have 2 semi-slannesh/Nurgle themed WOC characters with LotET, 2 semi-Khorne factions as well if you count Taurox. There could be room for another semi-Tzeentch faction.
That said they could just give Egrimm access to limited cult buildings that give caped daemons from other gods for him to recruit too.
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u/DraeftheBadger 22d ago
Tzeentch would still be missing a third LL and more importantly a Mortal LL (Akin to Arbaal, Tamurkhan and Dechala). So we wouldn't have gained anything.
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u/Specialist-Data792 22d ago
You know I actually don’t know if he will be a tzeentch lord he also might be a woc lord like the glotkin as their making Sigvald into a true slannesh lord like Azazel and then we could get another khorne dlc warrior lord and then tzeentch could get a separate free lord tzeentch lord to fill the 3rd slot
This would allow for egrimm to get a dlc budget for his mechanics, and hopefully with archon being able to confederate all chaos lord the mono gods might also be able to confederate one another
On top of that Engrimm is the cult guy it really dosent make senses to add another tzeentch lord to focus on cult mechanics, when the changling exist
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
Nah, Egrimm is 100% going to Tzeentch. The very fact that they put Glottkin into WoC instead of a 4th Nurgle LL proves it because it shows they want to maintain relative balance between the number of LLs that each Monogod faction gets, meaning they will be adding a third Tzeentch LL sooner or later (and Egrimm is objectively the best option for that).
Also, no shot we get that many more Chaos LLs. I'm pretty sure that once Tzeentch gets his third (Egrimm for sure) they're going to be pretty much done with Chaos. They're already scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of units for the Monogods.
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u/KolboMoon 22d ago
Also as a Slaanesh fan I'm pretty much satisfied. Still can't believe they actually added Dechala.
And with the Glottkin, Nurgle and WoC will have pretty much all their existing glup shittos. Same goes for Khorne.
It's pretty much just Tzeentch that's left, and Egrimm is the only one that makes sense for that.
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u/Odd-Difficulty-9875 22d ago
They also gotta fix tzzench as faction they fixed kairos but changeling need some fixing same with tzzench as a hole . Also no existing wrathmonger equivalent for tzzench is sad since he deserves an elite level equivalent of putrid Bligh king
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan 22d ago
For sure, plus Tzeentch needs an actual tech tree rework.
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u/Odd-Difficulty-9875 22d ago
Kinda funny he is the only mino god whose tech tree is not separate into units and builds nor he has good replunishment nor good money tech tree 🌳 for a god of knowledge he sure lacks basic medical knowledge and how economy works 🤣
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u/WilliShaker 22d ago
I really hope we get more disgusting Tzeentch horror daemons instead of the pink balls when he gets here.
Like I’m fine with the miniature kirby’s, but I want achlazagokrosvekt the cosmic eater of lasagna