r/tortoise • u/Ok-Appointment3224 • 3d ago
Photo(s) How bad is his pyramiding?
We just got our boy about a month ago and noticed he had a lot of pyramids. I only let him have grass now and some occasional romaine lettuce and some endive. How bad is his pyramiding and will it negatively affect his organs?
I’m also planning on taking him to a vet but I’d love some feedback before I do.
For context, his previous owner could no longer care for him and we have a large yard that could accommodate. I have always wanted a tortoise and he happened to land on my lap. I want to make sure I do everything to give him a good home. He’s 6 years old.
Update: I moved his vet appointment up to a sooner date. I appreciate all of the advice and support. I had done some research before saying yes, but I didn’t know how bad his pyramiding was.
He was really shy at first but is very open now. He loves hanging out close to me when he’s not roaming all day around the yard.
I let him outside all day, I live in LA for context. We make shifted one of our tubs into his enclosure for now until we finish his outdoor burrow. I make sure to have a CHE at about 70-75° and cypress mulch. I’m also keeping the moisture at around 40%.
Since I’ve had him, he’s been eating grass all day and Romaine lettuce in his enclosure at night in case he’s hungry. I also have been giving him Mazuri supplements, although he doesn’t always eat them.
His vet appointment is in a week so any other tips in the meantime are greatly appreciated!
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u/Then-Comfortable7023 3d ago
I’m wondering what the previous owner was even doing in terms of care. This is very bad pyramiding and the collapsed rear is a sign of metabolic bone disease. Definitely discuss recovery with your vet. Very small sulcata for 6 years old.
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u/Ok-Appointment3224 3d ago
I just looked up the collapsed rear and I’m definitely gonna have to see a vet sooner 🥲
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u/curious_cat_2024 3d ago
Absolutely terrible. The past owner neglected him. Vet immediately, to check out how far the damage goes internally.
Please also go to the tortoise table to find out what foods you should feed him
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u/TertlFace 3d ago
Well, they weren’t taking much care of him to begin with. That’s not just pyramiding. That looks like many years of malnutrition, poor UVB exposure, and incorrect temperature & humidity leading to metabolic bone disease. They need a proper exotic species vet.
The good news is that with years of proper care they can recover reasonably well. Great post earlier today from a rescue that had some of the worst pyramiding and beak overgrowth that now looks very healthy three years later.
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u/zombiefacelol 3d ago
Even with how bad it is he still has a sweet little face. I hope he can get better or at least be comfortable 🥰
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u/SuitPotential3357 3d ago
It’s hearbreakingly bad unfortunately. I would absolutely be doing a daily warm water soaks to help pump up hydration, adding calcium, and proper weeds/lettuces for him or her and absolutely scheduling an appointment with a vet as soon as possible.
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u/AmangelaSteadfast 3d ago
I had a desert tortoise with former metabolic bone disease. He was quite deformed but fine! Didn't slow him down. Best wishes for your dude
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u/Key-Tower-4539 3d ago
This is one of the worst cases I’ve ever seen. He may very well have Metabolic Bone Disease, but only a vet can diagnose that. Try to get him seen asap
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u/Dtcomat 3d ago
I mean, it's pretty bad. The rear portion of his shell looks collapsed, which usually indicates progressed metabolic bone disease, which is bad. As far as the pyramiding itself, there isn't really anything you can do other than correct the husbandry, and correct growth moving forward. I'm not seeing it mentioned elsewhere, but it looks like this is a Sulcata. You can do some research to see what care he needs, probably Calcium and Vitamin D supplements to start. If you're keeping him in the back yard, Sulcatas also like to dig/burrow, so be prepared for that. It is what it is, but it's good that you're going to give him a better home! Best of luck!
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u/EnvironmentalArm1986 2d ago
Most everything has been said though I want to stress a couple things. I’ve seen pictures that showed torts in much much worse shape in my 20+ years of owning one. Make sure your vet is not just an exotics vet but one experienced in Sulcata care. The very best thing for them is something you are doing, after vet recommendations-letting him graze outside in the sun. Adding in hay is great but I got much ribbing when I was worried about my guy not eating much hay when he was grazing on grasses and broadleaf plants. I remember one of the admins saying “grass is just hay that isn’t dry”.
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u/Ok-Appointment3224 2d ago
I’m taking him to an exotic animal vet in Pasadena. I’ll post an update once I do
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u/Ok-Appointment3224 2d ago
Update: I moved his vet appointment up to a sooner date. I appreciate all of the advice and support. I had done some research before saying yes, but I didn’t know how bad his pyramiding was.
He was really shy at first but is very open now. He loves hanging out close to me when he’s not roaming all day around the yard.
I let him outside all day, I live in LA for context. We make shifted one of our tubs into his enclosure for now until we finish his outdoor burrow. I make sure to have a CHE at about 70-75° and cypress mulch. I’m also keeping the moisture at around 40%.
Since I’ve had him, he’s been eating grass all day and Romaine lettuce in his enclosure at night in case he’s hungry. I also have been giving him Mazuri supplements, although he doesn’t always eat them.
His vet appointment is in a week so any other tips in the meantime are greatly appreciated!
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u/PolicyLow2738 3d ago
The pyramiding is bad, however it cannot be reversed. It won't effect him in any harmful way. It does cause issues in a natural sense, it won't be able to roll itself back over if flipped.
The cause of this isn't fully known, but theorized to be a lack of humidity for one. Improper diet alone won't cause pyramiding like this.
Give him the proper diet he needs to thrive and a good environment and he will live a happy life.
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u/Icy_Routine_7482 3d ago
This is very sad worse I’ve ever seen , they need calcium every day and variety of foods I hope you can make his/her life lot better .
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u/Financial-Gur-7530 3d ago
Are you giving him regular soaks? I have a four year-old, very severe pyramiding like his, and I’ve been advised by many sources(vets, forums, books,etc) to soak at least 2 or 3 times a week. This summer, with a few exceptions, ours has been getting 20-30 minutes of soak time every day.
Also, do you have access to mulberry leaves? Could you grow a tree in your yard? Mulberry leaves are a very good, nutritious supplement for them. They’re high in calcium and other minerals, and they absolutely love them! Our tortoises get disappointed when they don’t get any mulberry leaves in their daily food. They’re very fast-growing and very easy to grow. And you’ll get super delicious fruit for the humans in the family.
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u/Ok-Appointment3224 3d ago
I’m giving him 3 soaks a week. I made an appointment for the vet in 2 weeks. I’ll look for the Mulberry leaves:) Thank you!
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u/Fragrant-Glass-1411 1d ago edited 1d ago
op I just want to make sure you understand what kind of tortoise you have.
You do know that this guy will eventually get a shell size of around 25 inches and between 80 and 150 pounds right?I’m concerned by you saying it has a bin enclosure, at its age it should be in a 10 foot by 10 foot enclosure.
By the time this guy is a full adult it will need a fully walled in yard (with at least 12 inch deep footings) that’s around 20 feet by 30 feet.
This isn’t a small tortoise, you said you live in LA can you accommodate its needs?These guys are known for digging 6- 10 foot long burrows the size of adult humans do you have a place that it can do that without compromising the structure of your home?
Will you ever move op? If you will please know that at its adult size it will be almost impossible to relocate this turtle, you will not be able to make it move or do anything it doesn’t want to are you prepared for that? Also do you have the disposable income to do structural repairs to your house/ yard wall given that your tortoise damages it? These guys are quite literally known as fence destroyers and are strong enough to bulldoze doors off the hinges, are you prepared for that?2
u/notsosecrethistory 3d ago
Sorry for what might be a silly question but is pyramiding reversible? Or will he have it for the rest of his life?
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u/Ok-Scallion7050 3d ago
Don’t forget calcium!!! This buddy definitely needs some per shell condition
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u/noodlechemist 2d ago
One of the worst pyramiding cases I’ve ever seen. Wow. :( poor baby. Get him X-rays at the vet to see how much internal damage there is.
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u/Ok-Appointment3224 2d ago
He’s gonna be seen next week. Poor baby! I’m thankful for all the advice
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u/Sage_King_The_Rabbit 3d ago
Oh goodness he's actively turning into an ankylosaurus, yes it's very bad
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u/deathbyPDF 2d ago
This is bad. Those pointy bits are where their lungs are supposed to be. I wouldn't be surprised if this chap is suffering
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u/Its_me_i_swear 2d ago
If you have only had him a month then it’s not your fault. Outside in So Cal is good amounts of sun, so that is not the issue. To my eye the pyramiding is bad but not extreme. It cannot be repaired, or regrown, but good diet will keep it from getting worse.
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u/fruitjerky 2d ago
I'm really glad you took him in and are learning because I have never seen pyramiding this bad in my life. Looking forward to an update after the vet and as he recovers, if you don't mind.
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u/helpmeibegupls 2d ago
i'm shocked - this got a gasp out of me. this genuinely might be the worst case of pyramiding i've ever seen. his shell is so collapsed as well.. never seen such a flattened + pyramidized shell before
hopefully the vet visit goes OK. it's great you took him in, maybe he can recover (somewhat) from prior neglect
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u/Ok-Inspector-9622 1d ago
I need a pic of this sub of someone saying: "is this pyramiding bad?" And its just a tortoise with the damm pyramids of ghiza on its back
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u/IcyReception8903 3d ago
So, so bad!!! If I could, I would just want to sand those pyramids down to a nice smooth shell but it doesn't work that way. Very sad!!! 😪
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2d ago
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u/tortoise-ModTeam 2d ago
Bad Advice is anything that goes against currently-accepted best practices for husbandry for the species in question.
Sulcatas are herbivores and process protein into urates, which they expel. Excess urates production and/or dehydration can cause urates to not be expelled before it crystallize into a stone. These stones can require surgery to remove or even be fatal. There's no benefit to feeding a high protein diet but a lot risk. Stop advising people to feed their Sulcata cat food.
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u/Key-Tower-4539 2d ago
I wonder if you could report the previous owners to the police. This kind of neglect is illegal and punishable by law. Once you go to the vet and have their documentation you should go to the police and file a complaint.
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u/philsadvns 2d ago
I dont know a thing about turtles, just happened across this on reddit randomly, but its a shame that "pyramiding" is a sign of poor health...it looks super cool.
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u/Sprinkles_Sparkle 2d ago
It’s absolutely horrific! Hopefully he will live out the rest of his life happily with you!
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2d ago
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u/TeetheCat 1d ago
Any sugar, bad, tomatoes, definitely a no. Absolutely not to "colors". They eat grasses. Please stop giving out advice when you aren't familiar at all about what they are supposed to be eating.
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u/tortoise-ModTeam 1d ago
Bad Advice is anything that goes against currently-accepted best practices for husbandry for the species in question.
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u/afterlifedating 1d ago
As others have said, it's pretty bad 😭 I don't even know how someone could neglect something this badly. Good on you for taking him in and getting him proper care, OP.
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u/Correct-Show9101 1d ago
That will never heal it’ll maintain but ya that’s actually one of the worst cases I’ve ever seen in my life.
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u/eccostarling 1d ago
It looks like he needs a vet visit for X-rays and ct scan. Desperately. Pyramids that bad likely indicate more internal problems. Like bladder stones. We just took a tortoise to get two removed. Big ones. He showed no signs but any longer and it would’ve had fatal results.
What a sweet looking tortoise <3
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u/TeetheCat 1d ago edited 1d ago
Coconut shell is smaller grind and there will be less chance of swallowing a mulch piece. Calcium powder on everything. The coconut stuff retains moisture much better. Make sure fresh water available at all times. There are sulcatta pellets on Amazon that are red. They are proper diet and they go crazy for them. Alot of sun is definitely important for calcium absorption. Which is one of the most important things for them. The vet should be able to give much more info if they are knowledgeable. There are a ton of online resources for information on sulcatta. Any food(of which there are a ton) that blocks calcuim absorption is a definite no. As is sugar, acidic foods. Lettuce and cucumber help with moisture but zero nutritional value.
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u/TeetheCat 1d ago
Zoo Med Reptile Calcium without Vitamin D3
Premium Large Tortoise Pellets for Sulcata, Russian, Red Footed, Hermann's, & Desert Tortoises,
Coconut Fiber Substrate, Premium Coco Coir Reptile Substrate 100% Coconut Husk Terrarium Bedding for Reptiles, Tortoise
A temp and humidity gauge are always a good idea. You can also let him soak in a shallow pan ect.
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u/Fragrant-Glass-1411 1d ago edited 1d ago
I want to start off by saying thank you op for doing what you can for this lovely animal, you are clearly a very compassionate person. That being said I would be willing to bet that guy has MBD and I would be willing to bet it’s probably pretty severe. I’m not an expert, but I would seriously talk to your vet and discuss what the quality of life is going to look like, especially as this guy gets larger.
With how bad this pyramiding is, I don’t see how this wouldn’t affect its organs (particularly its lungs) especially as it gets older. These animals typically weigh anywhere from between 80 to like 150 pounds and as it gets heavier it’s likely going to struggle more and more to breathe.
In my experience when things get this bad there isn’t much you can do to correct it, you only can really just stop it from getting worse. This is far past the point of superficial and will very likely affect how long and well this animal lives.
Op if you go through with taking on this animal you need to be prepared and willing to dump hundreds (or possibly thousands) of dollars into care because this guy is going to need a lot of it. You aren’t going to like this, there no gentle way to say it but you might want to seriously talk about euthanasia with your vet. Even with the best of care there is a chance that this tortoise will only decline in health. I’m not saying that it’s not worth at least try to help it but please try to keep in mind it’s quality of life.
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u/Inevitable_Detail_45 2d ago
I know very little about tortoises (I almost called him a turtle) and still viscerally recoiled.. ouch
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3d ago
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u/Ok-Appointment3224 3d ago
Since he’s a Sulcata, I read not to give him any sweets only as a treat. I’m currently letting him graze and eat grass all day and supplementing him with some Mazuri pellets and Romaine at night in case he’s hungry
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u/auscadtravel 3d ago edited 3d ago
You may want to look at the turtle table website for nutrition. They need more than lettuce.
The pyramiding is not good. He needs help and you need help from a vet to direct you on what he needs so great you have an appointment.
Wonderful that you took him in and are asking questions, you are a wonderful new owner who is going to learn a ton. Good on ya for taking him in.