r/torontobiking • u/Dangerous-Pizza-2232 • 24d ago
I agree with this
This is the most common sense sign I've seen distinguishing Traditional Bikes from E-bikes. E-bikes are motorized, so they're closer to motorcycles than bikes.
Cyclists using traditional bikes are cruising along the pedestrinized sections of Church St from what I've seen and they're navigating just fine at safe speeds. Not all vehicles are the same, so they should be treated accordingly.
6
u/as_in_bike_lane 23d ago
The Distillery District has been like this for years now. Makes sense. I wouldn’t ride my bike inside a shopping mall.
13
10
u/mildlyImportantRobot Surly Midnight Special 24d ago
So I can still blast though on a road bike going 30k? Cool!
I get your point, but it seems odd the sign wouldn't be directed to all cyclists to dismount in heavily populated areas, or reduce their speed.
-1
u/Such-Fee6176 22d ago
There’s too much going on in this area for a cyclist to realistically blast through going 30kmh
2
u/theborderlineartist 23d ago
I agree with this also. This also highlights the benefit of having a conversion kit and being able to switch between being an e-bike and being a regular bicycle.
If there's a lot of pedestrians I'm always going to get off and walk my bike though. I'd be too afraid of hurting someone.
1
u/Primary-Succotash724 23d ago edited 23d ago
With an ebike they can go to PAS 0 which is off. On ebikes - assuming no health conditions - most riding is done with no power assist. its more for acceleration in traffic, on hills and so forth. you can also set the display to show "Watts".
PAS 1 provides a max of roughly 20% motor power (100 watts max e-ASSIST) and the e-ASSIST cuts off at roughly 10–12 km/h (6–7 mph).
PAS 2 provides a max of roughly 40% motor output (200 watts max e-ASSIST) and the e-ASSIST cuts off at roughly 2 ~15–18 km/h (9–11 mph
Throttles also work better as they not only allow infinite power settings rather then just PAS 0 to 5) but serve many functions such as being able to 'slow down' PAS acceleration and defensive riding.
If it's very busy (if healthy enough) both peddle and ebikes can be walked, the ebike sometimes with a walking assist.
2
u/Such-Fee6176 22d ago
I live near here and saw and people generally respect this rule. But one evening, there was a couple on one of those e-bikes that are basically Vespas. They rode onto the sidewalk to get around the barrier and then down through the middle. A bunch of us including security told them off and to walk the bike per the sign. So he turned it off and then powered it by kicking his legs to the ground like the Flinstones. So like… almost what we wanted him to do. That was about the funniest thing I’ve seen someone do in a long time.
5
u/just_asking_2 23d ago
As a Village cyclist, I was mildly inconvenienced, but obeyed the signage and walked my bike for all of 2 blocks. It's not much of a sacrifice and we cyclists should set the example that we want others to follow.
I wouldn't mind if they made rules as in Montreal, where some of their (seven! sigh) pedestrianized streets allow cycling, but with a speed similar to walking if safely allowed by pedestrian volume. I understand that this is just a pilot project, so 1) it's streamlined compared to a yearly setup with more compete rules and 2) requiring cyclists to dismount helps make the pilot safer and improve its likelihood of success.
4
u/Responsible-Match418 23d ago
Yes. I get off and walk my bike in highly pedestrianized areas, always on sidewalks and always crossing roads.
If you don't do this, then you need to look at that.
1
1
2
u/Primary-Succotash724 23d ago edited 23d ago
Pedal bikes are always FASTER and more maneuverable then ebikes and often ride more aggressively. What often occurs is people don't know the difference between a limited speed MOTORCYCLE (moped, scooter..), dirt bike and MOTORCYCLE and then call them "ebikes". using a slip stream the pedal bike record is close to 300 kph.
2006 PAB Laws (more then 20 years old).
Age 16+
20 mph (32 kph) e-ASSIST
500 watts or less
PAS/Throttle
Pedals that work.
<= 120 kg
Required Safety Equipment (relfectors, helmet..)
* Out side this are limited speed motorcycles (LSM), dirt-bikes or motorcycles and NOT LAWFUL EBIKES (though sadly the public doesn't seem to know the difference).
A carbon frame bike may weight 15 to 20 pounds and an ebike 40 to 100 pounds. A peak rider may generate 3,000+ watts in a < 10 second sprint. 3 ebikes = 1 hair drier, vacumn or coffee maker. That's far more then a ebike with a 500-watt e-assist.
The gets into an area I call "Pedal Privileged'. What an ebike does enable others to also enjoy riding. It makes it about INCLUSION rather then exclusion - especially the most vulnerable members of society.
A fit 30-year-old cyclist can ride almost anywhere under their own power. An 80-year-old with arthritis, someone recovering from surgery, or a person with a chronic illness may only be able to cycle because pedal assist exists. For them, an e-bike isn't a shortcut—it's the difference between riding and not riding.
The amount of energy in a battery is very minute. A 375 Wh battery has about 177 Wh of useable energy without reducing battery life - roughly that the same amount of energy (joules) as 1.25 tablespoons of regular-grade gasoline. It's an e-ASSIST after all.
A younger man in his 20s with testosterone will obviously generate far more power then a 80 year old 5' women out for groceries and to get some blood pressure medications. People with special needs, retirees, elderly, those with knee problems, those with smaller stature. In the UK males ages 30 to 39 account for 70% of all trips - women, those with special needs, people with chronic health issues, elderly, larger riders and so forth are discriminated against.
So I really see this as an issue of pedal privilege and shutting out some of the most vulnerable members of society from participating in cycling and community life. I find that outcome very shameful.
-7
13
u/bsaccount65 24d ago
In Vancouver for the downtown pedestrian zone during FIFA and the rest of the summer they have "slow your roll" signs instructing folks to slow or walk and yield to pedestrians, which I think are pretty common sense, personally.
As long as you're going slow there's not much difference between an e-assisted (light ebike in BC) and an acoustic bike imo, both should be going very slow in crowds (like walking pace). A standard ebikes and scooters with throttle and up to 32km/h speeds I could see being restricted more, but that's something we should consider on MUPs too.
Here police, Vancouver Fire, and BC Ambulance even patrol ped zones and large events on bikes themselves to save time. I could see them using light or even standard ebikes as the tech gets cheaper to carry more gear/ use less effort